*APOLOGIES IN ADVANCE FOR THE LONG POST BUT WOULD DESPERATELY APPRECIATE ANY ADVICE*
HI all!
A little about me:
- 4th year veterinary student at University of Pennsylvania (...yes, I'm a PennWe).
- Came into vet school knowing that I wanted to pursue a surgical residency, but was unsure whether I wanted to do small or large animal.
- More actively pursued large animal surgery options during vet school (externships, summer research, volunteering, etc.) because I am a horse girl and thought large animal surgery was my definitive goal.
- Recently realized small animal surgery is more aligned with my career goals and life passions, but also internally screaming and definitely panicking because my trajectory throughout vet school is so large animal surgery focused that I probably look like not your typical, perfect, traditional small animal surgery residency applicant.
So in essence, I now have spent all of this time and energy learning all there is about large animal surgery (the best internships, residency programs, places with the highest and most diverse caseload, healthiest opportunities for mentorship, etc.) to no avail because it will not be what I am doing. I don't regret any of it because it showed me that this is not what I ultimately want to dedicate my life to, but also because I still enjoyed every second of my large animal experiences and wouldn't trade them for the world.
The caveat is that now, those students that knew they wanted to do small animal surgery since forever, have obviously gained the necessary experience and knowledge to get the best chance at securing a residency spot. I on the other hand don't even know where to do my internship, let alone residency, and have relatively limited small animal surgical experience. I didn't extern at the best surgical specialty practices or other academic institutions in their small animal surgery departments (because I was instead doing that for large animal surgery), and I have no time in my 4th year schedule anymore to do so. I am worried that I set myself up for failure by changing my mind so late in the game (like 1/4 of the way through 4th year), but I am delusional and resilient enough to not let it stop me from still trying to pursue this as my goal.
My questions for anyone that is a board certified small animal surgeon, has done a small animal surgical residency, is currently in residency, or has friends they know who have done this are:
1. The obvious question, but what is a good GPA? I have asked the surgical clinicians at my institution and have gotten mixed reviews. For total transparency, my veterinary school GPA is a 3.65, which is markedly improved from the 3.2 I had in undergrad that also got me into veterinary school on my first try straight from undergrad (see, anything is possible). But basically, I worked my ass off in vet school and tried to learn as much as possible while academically doing the best that I could, with the goal of graduating with a 3.5 GPA. Now, not only did I reach my goal, but I even exceeded it, which makes me honestly so proud of all of my sacrifices. But to be told by a senior surgery clinician that a 3.65 is below average and mediocre at best is disheartening, to say the least. And of course, I know surgery residency is highly competitive, and many applicants have 4.0s or are in the top 10% of their class, but my transcript still shows an upward trajectory of grades, with mostly As (and some Bs thanks to the fact that I'd get an 88 or 89 as a final grade in a class but that would still be considered a 3.0 instead of a 3.7 overall for the class...RIP). So please tell me how it is. Should I give up now? I understand having to do more than 1 internship before getting accepted into a surgical residency, but I don't want to be 4-5 internships down the line to just never realistically get a residency position.
2. Private practice vs. academic internship? Large animal surgery internships are almost always going to be private practice your first year out, with academic internships or simply residency following. They do not go through the MATCH either for internship. So I know of all the best equine surgery private practices but nothing about small animal surgery. At the end of the day for small animal, I am looking for an internship that has a PRISTINE REPUTATION FOR FUNNELING INTERNS INTO RESIDENCY POSITIONS (yes, I know it sounds callous but I want mentorship and letters of rec from the best of the best in the field). I'm not about to waste a year of my life at an insignificant internship that doesn't have a good reputation with academic institutions, exploits its interns as practically free labor, has virtually no mentorship or research opportunities, and will not help me get closer to my goal of a surgical residency. However, I love the idea of a private practice in comparison to an academic institution simply because of caseload and the amount of hands on experience you can get. Don't get me wrong, I know an academic institution would probably look better (correct me if I am wrong), but I just need to know WHAT the good private practice internships are (like Red Bank, AMC, Angell) and which private practices to avoid. Also, does it matter which academic institution you go to for your internship or are they all viewed the same for surgery residency applications (worried about elitism, like if I went to XYZ vet school for an academic internship it would look better than going to XYZ school). Successful small animal residents, what internships did you do and did you get into residency after your first internship?
3. Is it feasible to get into a surgery residency after just 1 internship? I know it's hard, but it is not unheard of. What would I need to do to stand out and make that happen, and where would I need to go?
4. Aside from GPA and flawless letters of recommendation from internship clinicians, what makes for a strong surgery resident candidate (aside from research because that will be addressed in my next question)?
5. Research. I have one published paper on avian cognition, behavior and disease as a coauthor, but I am not the primary author. I have had research experience in equine behavior here in vet school as well (with publication again as a coauthor not out of the question). Obviously, behavior and surgery are 2 very different things, but I decided to pursue research in areas that genuinely excited me (...also the surgeons didn't have research available or didn't need student help when I asked LOL). Is not doing research in a surgery related field detrimental to my residency application?
6. How can you make yourself stand out and be the most attractive residency candidate possible? I know great interpersonal skills and clinical knowledge/reasoning are a must, but what are the more SUBTLE DETAILS that make a residency candidate really special in a horde of such intelligent, compassionate and talented applicants? What would make the residency reviewers go "wow, I really NEED them to be my resident because they would fit perfectly"?
7. What would make for a negative application (like what should I NOT be doing during 4th year and my internship that would basically tank my chances of getting into residency)?
If you've read this far, thank you for your time and patience, and sorry for the novel. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED! <3
Sincerely, a 4th year student who is in the active throes of losing her mind from crippling stress and anxiety over her future :')
HI all!
A little about me:
- 4th year veterinary student at University of Pennsylvania (...yes, I'm a PennWe).
- Came into vet school knowing that I wanted to pursue a surgical residency, but was unsure whether I wanted to do small or large animal.
- More actively pursued large animal surgery options during vet school (externships, summer research, volunteering, etc.) because I am a horse girl and thought large animal surgery was my definitive goal.
- Recently realized small animal surgery is more aligned with my career goals and life passions, but also internally screaming and definitely panicking because my trajectory throughout vet school is so large animal surgery focused that I probably look like not your typical, perfect, traditional small animal surgery residency applicant.
So in essence, I now have spent all of this time and energy learning all there is about large animal surgery (the best internships, residency programs, places with the highest and most diverse caseload, healthiest opportunities for mentorship, etc.) to no avail because it will not be what I am doing. I don't regret any of it because it showed me that this is not what I ultimately want to dedicate my life to, but also because I still enjoyed every second of my large animal experiences and wouldn't trade them for the world.
The caveat is that now, those students that knew they wanted to do small animal surgery since forever, have obviously gained the necessary experience and knowledge to get the best chance at securing a residency spot. I on the other hand don't even know where to do my internship, let alone residency, and have relatively limited small animal surgical experience. I didn't extern at the best surgical specialty practices or other academic institutions in their small animal surgery departments (because I was instead doing that for large animal surgery), and I have no time in my 4th year schedule anymore to do so. I am worried that I set myself up for failure by changing my mind so late in the game (like 1/4 of the way through 4th year), but I am delusional and resilient enough to not let it stop me from still trying to pursue this as my goal.
My questions for anyone that is a board certified small animal surgeon, has done a small animal surgical residency, is currently in residency, or has friends they know who have done this are:
1. The obvious question, but what is a good GPA? I have asked the surgical clinicians at my institution and have gotten mixed reviews. For total transparency, my veterinary school GPA is a 3.65, which is markedly improved from the 3.2 I had in undergrad that also got me into veterinary school on my first try straight from undergrad (see, anything is possible). But basically, I worked my ass off in vet school and tried to learn as much as possible while academically doing the best that I could, with the goal of graduating with a 3.5 GPA. Now, not only did I reach my goal, but I even exceeded it, which makes me honestly so proud of all of my sacrifices. But to be told by a senior surgery clinician that a 3.65 is below average and mediocre at best is disheartening, to say the least. And of course, I know surgery residency is highly competitive, and many applicants have 4.0s or are in the top 10% of their class, but my transcript still shows an upward trajectory of grades, with mostly As (and some Bs thanks to the fact that I'd get an 88 or 89 as a final grade in a class but that would still be considered a 3.0 instead of a 3.7 overall for the class...RIP). So please tell me how it is. Should I give up now? I understand having to do more than 1 internship before getting accepted into a surgical residency, but I don't want to be 4-5 internships down the line to just never realistically get a residency position.
2. Private practice vs. academic internship? Large animal surgery internships are almost always going to be private practice your first year out, with academic internships or simply residency following. They do not go through the MATCH either for internship. So I know of all the best equine surgery private practices but nothing about small animal surgery. At the end of the day for small animal, I am looking for an internship that has a PRISTINE REPUTATION FOR FUNNELING INTERNS INTO RESIDENCY POSITIONS (yes, I know it sounds callous but I want mentorship and letters of rec from the best of the best in the field). I'm not about to waste a year of my life at an insignificant internship that doesn't have a good reputation with academic institutions, exploits its interns as practically free labor, has virtually no mentorship or research opportunities, and will not help me get closer to my goal of a surgical residency. However, I love the idea of a private practice in comparison to an academic institution simply because of caseload and the amount of hands on experience you can get. Don't get me wrong, I know an academic institution would probably look better (correct me if I am wrong), but I just need to know WHAT the good private practice internships are (like Red Bank, AMC, Angell) and which private practices to avoid. Also, does it matter which academic institution you go to for your internship or are they all viewed the same for surgery residency applications (worried about elitism, like if I went to XYZ vet school for an academic internship it would look better than going to XYZ school). Successful small animal residents, what internships did you do and did you get into residency after your first internship?
3. Is it feasible to get into a surgery residency after just 1 internship? I know it's hard, but it is not unheard of. What would I need to do to stand out and make that happen, and where would I need to go?
4. Aside from GPA and flawless letters of recommendation from internship clinicians, what makes for a strong surgery resident candidate (aside from research because that will be addressed in my next question)?
5. Research. I have one published paper on avian cognition, behavior and disease as a coauthor, but I am not the primary author. I have had research experience in equine behavior here in vet school as well (with publication again as a coauthor not out of the question). Obviously, behavior and surgery are 2 very different things, but I decided to pursue research in areas that genuinely excited me (...also the surgeons didn't have research available or didn't need student help when I asked LOL). Is not doing research in a surgery related field detrimental to my residency application?
6. How can you make yourself stand out and be the most attractive residency candidate possible? I know great interpersonal skills and clinical knowledge/reasoning are a must, but what are the more SUBTLE DETAILS that make a residency candidate really special in a horde of such intelligent, compassionate and talented applicants? What would make the residency reviewers go "wow, I really NEED them to be my resident because they would fit perfectly"?
7. What would make for a negative application (like what should I NOT be doing during 4th year and my internship that would basically tank my chances of getting into residency)?
If you've read this far, thank you for your time and patience, and sorry for the novel. ANY ADVICE WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED! <3
Sincerely, a 4th year student who is in the active throes of losing her mind from crippling stress and anxiety over her future :')
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