Smokers

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pre-meds? Don't care.

Physicians? I would really find it hard to believe that they can still smoke considering how much knowledge they have about its effects. But to each his own.
 
i shadowed a doctor who smoked and i thought it was kinda off-putting. after his smoke breaks, i could smell it on him, so his patients must have been able to smell it too. and i don't really like anyone who smells like smoke, let alone my doctor.

i agree to each their own, but if you're gonna be a doc and do it at least brush your teeth/ mouthwash/ wash hands or whatever before you see your next patient.
 
I quit smoking a few years ago and might have one every couple of months. If a doctor wants to smoke, go nuts. I do agree that said person should wash their hands and have a mint or something. Cigarettes do stink.
 
I think smoking is dumb and, having seen what a healthy lung looks like in an 80-year old non-smoking country dweller (speckled black with carbon pigment, looking quite unhealthy until we were told otherwise), don't really know why someone would smoke after they see what it does.

On the other hand, I know exactly what alcohol does to hepatocytes and I still get drunk every now and then.

cognitive dissonance all up ins

so to each his own
 
To be honest, I think it's terrible for physicians especially to smoke - how are you a good example for your patients when you suffer an addiction, make no attempts to stop it, and knowingly put others at risk for inhaling carcinogens?

I'll admit that I judge smokers pretty harshly. I've seen what it can do - my mother smoked for 33 years and had a heart attack at age 50. My grandfather smoked through his entire adult life and ended up with cancer - his doctors were convinced it was because he smoked. And my cousin had a baby with cystic fibrosis; she can't take him out to family gatherings because everyone smokes and it irritates his condition.

Granted, there are some considerate smokers. You know, the ones who only smoke in designated areas and who make sure their smoke doesn't blow in anyone's face. These people are also usually mindful of where their cigarette butts end up. I have less of a problem with those smokers.

But smokers on the whole I find to be complete a**holes. They swing their lit cigarettes as they walk; I've seen one accidentally shove the lit end into a kid's eye before! They don't pay attention to where their smoke goes and it ends up blowing right into a bunch of people's faces. They smoke around children and the elderly and improperly dispose of cigarette butts. What makes throwing a cigarette on the ground more acceptable than a gum wrapper or a receipt? Not to mention that a lot of the time they don't even stamp them out. How many fires per year are started just because some idiot dropped a lit cigarette?

I honestly have no idea why people start smoking, and I find people who do to be incredibly stupid. Whatever the reason you started, you're going to have to deal with the consequences. Sickness, premature aging, etc. It's all on you.

I don't even date smokers. No matter how awesome someone is, if they smoke, I'm saying no. I don't want to deal with their crap.

So yeah, I'm harsh. But I have my reasons.
 
Janieve said:
To be honest, I think it's terrible for physicians especially to smoke - how are you a good example for your patients when you suffer an addiction, make no attempts to stop it, and knowingly put others at risk for inhaling carcinogens?

I'll admit that I judge smokers pretty harshly. I've seen what it can do - my mother smoked for 33 years and had a heart attack at age 50. My grandfather smoked through his entire adult life and ended up with cancer - his doctors were convinced it was because he smoked. And my cousin had a baby with cystic fibrosis; she can't take him out to family gatherings because everyone smokes and it irritates his condition.

Granted, there are some considerate smokers. You know, the ones who only smoke in designated areas and who make sure their smoke doesn't blow in anyone's face. These people are also usually mindful of where their cigarette butts end up. I have less of a problem with those smokers.

But smokers on the whole I find to be complete a**holes. They swing their lit cigarettes as they walk; I've seen one accidentally shove the lit end into a kid's eye before! They don't pay attention to where their smoke goes and it ends up blowing right into a bunch of people's faces. They smoke around children and the elderly and improperly dispose of cigarette butts. What makes throwing a cigarette on the ground more acceptable than a gum wrapper or a receipt? Not to mention that a lot of the time they don't even stamp them out. How many fires per year are started just because some idiot dropped a lit cigarette?

I honestly have no idea why people start smoking, and I find people who do to be incredibly stupid. Whatever the reason you started, you're going to have to deal with the consequences. Sickness, premature aging, etc. It's all on you.

I don't even date smokers. No matter how awesome someone is, if they smoke, I'm saying no. I don't want to deal with their crap.

So yeah, I'm harsh. But I have my reasons.
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Just curious, are you male or female?
 
So...does residency make encourage or discourage smoking? On one hand, I'm pretty sure there are no smoke breaks since many say they can't even grab a bathroom break. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure that if I were going to start, that would be the time. 😉
 
Janieve said:
To be honest, I think it's terrible for physicians especially to smoke - how are you a good example for your patients when you suffer an addiction, make no attempts to stop it, and knowingly put others at risk for inhaling carcinogens?

I'll admit that I judge smokers pretty harshly. I've seen what it can do - my mother smoked for 33 years and had a heart attack at age 50. My grandfather smoked through his entire adult life and ended up with cancer - his doctors were convinced it was because he smoked. And my cousin had a baby with cystic fibrosis; she can't take him out to family gatherings because everyone smokes and it irritates his condition.

Granted, there are some considerate smokers. You know, the ones who only smoke in designated areas and who make sure their smoke doesn't blow in anyone's face. These people are also usually mindful of where their cigarette butts end up. I have less of a problem with those smokers.

But smokers on the whole I find to be complete a**holes. They swing their lit cigarettes as they walk; I've seen one accidentally shove the lit end into a kid's eye before! They don't pay attention to where their smoke goes and it ends up blowing right into a bunch of people's faces. They smoke around children and the elderly and improperly dispose of cigarette butts. What makes throwing a cigarette on the ground more acceptable than a gum wrapper or a receipt? Not to mention that a lot of the time they don't even stamp them out. How many fires per year are started just because some idiot dropped a lit cigarette?

I honestly have no idea why people start smoking, and I find people who do to be incredibly stupid. Whatever the reason you started, you're going to have to deal with the consequences. Sickness, premature aging, etc. It's all on you.

I don't even date smokers. No matter how awesome someone is, if they smoke, I'm saying no. I don't want to deal with their crap.

So yeah, I'm harsh. But I have my reasons.
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Cool story, Hansel
 
A doctor, better than anybody, should know the effects of smoking, as well as the effects of obesity, and alcoholism. Yet, there are still raging fat alcoholics who smoke and are also doctors. Honestly, as long as they are good at what they do, their vices dont interfere with their work and are also caring and compassionate towards their patients, then I would be ok with it. I would rather have a good doctor who smokes, than one who is an a**hole.
And the argument about leading by example... How old are you? 4 years old?
 
Janieve said:
To be honest, I think it's terrible for physicians especially to smoke - how are you a good example for your patients when you suffer an addiction, make no attempts to stop it, and knowingly put others at risk for inhaling carcinogens?

I'll admit that I judge smokers pretty harshly. I've seen what it can do - my mother smoked for 33 years and had a heart attack at age 50. My grandfather smoked through his entire adult life and ended up with cancer - his doctors were convinced it was because he smoked. And my cousin had a baby with cystic fibrosis; she can't take him out to family gatherings because everyone smokes and it irritates his condition.

Granted, there are some considerate smokers. You know, the ones who only smoke in designated areas and who make sure their smoke doesn't blow in anyone's face. These people are also usually mindful of where their cigarette butts end up. I have less of a problem with those smokers.

But smokers on the whole I find to be complete a**holes. They swing their lit cigarettes as they walk; I've seen one accidentally shove the lit end into a kid's eye before! They don't pay attention to where their smoke goes and it ends up blowing right into a bunch of people's faces. They smoke around children and the elderly and improperly dispose of cigarette butts. What makes throwing a cigarette on the ground more acceptable than a gum wrapper or a receipt? Not to mention that a lot of the time they don't even stamp them out. How many fires per year are started just because some idiot dropped a lit cigarette?

I honestly have no idea why people start smoking, and I find people who do to be incredibly stupid. Whatever the reason you started, you're going to have to deal with the consequences. Sickness, premature aging, etc. It's all on you.

I don't even date smokers. No matter how awesome someone is, if they smoke, I'm saying no. I don't want to deal with their crap.

So yeah, I'm harsh. But I have my reasons.
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You're an ass, and an ignorant one at that. I would love to see you approach some people I've meet that smoke. There are bad people on both sides, but don't go off on how terrible people that smoke are. It's like they're automatically *******s because they smoke.


also - nicotine increases short-term memory performance 👍
 
I had an appointment not too long ago with a physician who smoked while searching for a new PCP. I could smell the stench on him the second he walked into the room. Needless to say, he is not my PCP.

However, I'm sure smokers would enjoy not having their doctor lecture them?
 
wristbandMD said:
I had an appointment not too long ago with a physician who smoked while searching for a new PCP. I could smell the stench on him the second he walked into the room. Needless to say, he is not my PCP.

However, I'm sure smokers would enjoy not having their doctor lecture them?
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Oh, sure, lecture the smokers about their habit but don't call fatty-mcfat anything remotely close to fat because that's rude👎 Patient gets upset? I'm sure I can outrun them😴
 
Janieve said:
To be honest, I think it's terrible for physicians especially to smoke - how are you a good example for your patients when you suffer an addiction, make no attempts to stop it, and knowingly put others at risk for inhaling carcinogens?

I'll admit that I judge smokers pretty harshly. I've seen what it can do - my mother smoked for 33 years and had a heart attack at age 50. My grandfather smoked through his entire adult life and ended up with cancer - his doctors were convinced it was because he smoked. And my cousin had a baby with cystic fibrosis; she can't take him out to family gatherings because everyone smokes and it irritates his condition.

Granted, there are some considerate smokers. You know, the ones who only smoke in designated areas and who make sure their smoke doesn't blow in anyone's face. These people are also usually mindful of where their cigarette butts end up. I have less of a problem with those smokers.

But smokers on the whole I find to be complete a**holes. They swing their lit cigarettes as they walk; I've seen one accidentally shove the lit end into a kid's eye before! They don't pay attention to where their smoke goes and it ends up blowing right into a bunch of people's faces. They smoke around children and the elderly and improperly dispose of cigarette butts. What makes throwing a cigarette on the ground more acceptable than a gum wrapper or a receipt? Not to mention that a lot of the time they don't even stamp them out. How many fires per year are started just because some idiot dropped a lit cigarette?

I honestly have no idea why people start smoking, and I find people who do to be incredibly stupid. Whatever the reason you started, you're going to have to deal with the consequences. Sickness, premature aging, etc. It's all on you.

I don't even date smokers. No matter how awesome someone is, if they smoke, I'm saying no. I don't want to deal with their crap.

So yeah, I'm harsh. But I have my reasons.
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I agree that there are certainly some inconsiderate smokers, but aren't there also a lot of inconsiderate non-smokers? I have met a number of very courteous smokers, actually.

As far as a physician who smokes, I can totally understand why they above other people would begin smoking. The stress of being a premed, med student, or resident could easily drive someone to smoke due to the assumption that it will calm you down. (However, I have heard this is only true for smokers because it decreases withdrawal symptoms.)

I personally would not prefer a doctor who smoked, but if it came down to a choice of a physician who was an incompetent nonsmoker or a competent smoker, I would easily choose the smoker.
 
i think doctors are role models. i'm not patronizing smokers, but referring to the 'how old are you,' i think doctors are traditionally looked up to. doctors can smoke all they want but i honestly think they should hide the habit (aforementioned mint, mouthwash) from their patients and any children that potentially view them as role models
 
Ah, but ARE doctors really role models?
 
Kaustikos said:
You're an ass, and an ignorant one at that. I would love to see you approach some people I've meet that smoke. There are bad people on both sides, but don't go off on how terrible people that smoke are. It's like they're automatically *******s because they smoke.

also - nicotine increases short-term memory performance 👍
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I'll agree with you that I'm an ass, but I'll have to disagree about the 'ignorant' part. I've given you my reasons for disliking smokers and even specified that there are some smokers out there that don't necessarily bother me. I've read study after study finding something new and terrible about cigarettes, and I've even read the studies that found those few positive things. I'm aware of how difficult it is to quit (mother smoked for 33 years - remember?), and all my research has done thus far has shown me that anyone who smokes is making a terrible decision, regardless of their reason for starting, and that those who refuse to consider those around them are a**holes.

I don't care what your reasons for defending smokers are. Choosing to start smoking is an idiotic decision and you know it. It harms you and everyone you expose to your joyful addiction, and most smokers don't even care. You wanna get up in my face about it? Fine. But I've researched and evaluated my opinion. Have you?
 
Janieve said:
I'll agree with you that I'm an ass, but I'll have to disagree about the 'ignorant' part. I've given you my reasons for disliking smokers and even specified that there are some smokers out there that don't necessarily bother me. I've read study after study finding something new and terrible about cigarettes, and I've even read the studies that found those few positive things. I'm aware of how difficult it is to quit (mother smoked for 33 years - remember?), and all my research has done thus far has shown me that anyone who smokes is making a terrible decision, regardless of their reason for starting, and that those who refuse to consider those around them are a**holes.

I don't care what your reasons for defending smokers are. Choosing to start smoking is an idiotic decision and you know it. It harms you and everyone you expose to your joyful addiction, and most smokers don't even care. You wanna get up in my face about it? Fine. But I've researched and evaluated my opinion. Have you?
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I totally respect your opinion and your first post puts you far from ignorant. 😕
 
Janieve said:
I don't care what your reasons for defending smokers are. Choosing to start smoking is an idiotic decision and you know it. It harms you and everyone you expose to your joyful addiction, and most smokers don't even care. You wanna get up in my face about it? Fine. But I've researched and evaluated my opinion. Have you?
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I'm confused, do you even want my opinion, then?:laugh: By your logic, people that choose to eat unhealthy (80% of americans) are making an idiotic decision. They're all idiots! And *******s! I've read the papers, looked at the studies.
 
I don't think she necessarily was saying that smokers are bad people but that they exhibit ass-holish behavior regarding smoking ettiquette.
I too have noticed this. Previously when I was pregnant I was confronted with plenty of smokers that did not care if I was right next to them they kept on smoking by me or by my now one year old. It annoys me. Also, I don't like it when they act like their decision to smoke is only theirs and has no effect on anyone else- IT DOES! My mother-in-law for example had to be constantly reminded by my husband that she shouldn't smoke by me when I was pregnant.

However, I know that saying that smokers are evil is not reasonable because I have met plenty of smokers who are nice people just like there are nice non-smokers. I just wish that some displayed more considerate ettiquette when smoking.

Kaustikos said:
You're an ass, and an ignorant one at that. I would love to see you approach some people I've meet that smoke. There are bad people on both sides, but don't go off on how terrible people that smoke are. It's like they're automatically *******s because they smoke.


also - nicotine increases short-term memory performance 👍
Click to expand...
 
isasmommy said:
I don't think she necessarily was saying that smokers are bad people but that they exhibit ass-holish behavior regarding smoking ettiquette.
I too have noticed this. Previously when I was pregnant I was confronted with plenty of smokers that did not care if I was right next to them they kept on smoking by me or by my now one year old. It annoys me. Also, I don't like it when they act like their decision to smoke is only theirs and has no effect on anyone else- IT DOES! My mother-in-law for example had to be constantly reminded by my husband that she shouldn't smoke by me when I was pregnant.

However, I know that saying that smokers are evil is not reasonable because I have met plenty of smokers who are nice people just like there are nice non-smokers. I just wish that some displayed more considerate ettiquette when smoking.
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I guess I've been lucky, then? My only complaint is the half-assed attempt by hospitals to have people not smoke on their premises and not actually enforce that rule.
 
Kaustikos said:
I guess I've been lucky, then? My only complaint is the half-assed attempt by hospitals to have people not smoke on their premises and not actually enforce that rule.
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yeah, I do have that complaint also. LOL-they had that too at one nursing home I worked at but still allowed the residents that lived there to smoke outside🙄
 
Kaustikos said:
I'm confused, do you even want my opinion, then?:laugh: By your logic, people that choose to eat unhealthy (80% of americans) are making an idiotic decision. They're all idiots! And *******s! I've read the papers, looked at the studies.
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Their decision to eat unhealthy foods has no ill-effects on me or anyone around me. Total fallacy in your argument there.

And yes, when there are healthy options available, eating unhealthy foods is pretty idiotic. Especially when healthy foods usually taste better than unhealthy ones. 😛
 
Janieve said:
Their decision to eat unhealthy foods has no ill-effects on me or anyone around me. Total fallacy in your argument there.

And yes, when there are healthy options available, eating unhealthy foods is pretty idiotic. Especially when healthy foods usually taste better than unhealthy ones. 😛
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Three words - Government Health Insurance

hint hint - dialysis
 
Kaustikos said:
Three words - Government Health Insurance

hint hint - dialysis
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Perhaps I should clarify:

Has no direct bearing on my HEALTH AND WELL-BEING, is not carcinogenic, and does not result in irritating smoke being blown into my face.

But that would be the obvious interpretation, so of course I was asking for someone to point that out. Thanks, darling.
 
I was a smoker for years. I ended up becoming very self conscious of it. I always did my best to be aware of where my smoke was going. I always smoked outside in the correct areas. I have news for non-smokers, people who smoke are not dumb. They know they are doing something unhealthy..you would have to have been living under a rock not to.

There has been a media campaign against smoking. This is great. Smoking, is after all, a huge public health issue. However, there has also been a very deliberate effort to demonize anyone who smokes. They end up attacking the character of people, and not their illness, addiction. Yes, addiction is a mental illness, and if you plan on becoming a physician you might want to get used to that.

Part of the above has to do with second hand smoke. Before I say this, as a now non-smoker I find the smell of smoke to be bothersome and unpleasant. However, anyone who claims to be anything remotely close to a scientist must look at the second hand smoke studies for what they are; uncompelling data that was combined to make pseudo report. When I was a smoker people would fake cough when I walked by (not blowing in their face or anything close). This is nuts! The wall of traffic that was usually near us is/was way more toxic than someone smoking. You never see commercials about that though.



[YOUTUBE]aGoZ-b1OaW4[/YOUTUBE]

I think that if doctors smoke they should at least try to cover it up because the smell does bother some (mostly psychological if you ask me). I don't think it makes them any less of a doctor. I don't think people should smoke around kids, or anyone else that does not want it near them. But I also think we should get real.
 
A lot of medical students and doctors drink to excess, despite knowing what it does to the liver, so doctors, even ones who don't smoke, are certainly not immune to self destructive habits.

That being said, smoking is becoming more and more socially unacceptable. Almost nobody in my class smokes, so there is selection somewhere, whether it is self selection or outside selection.

Don't come to your interview smelling at all of smoke. I don't care how badly you need one, don't do it. Even if you don't think you smell of smoke, you probably do. It's like someone smelling of BO at an interview; not something I'm going to write in your evaluation, but it will probably have an effect on my viewpoint towards you.
 
Janieve said:
And yes, when there are healthy options available, eating unhealthy foods is pretty idiotic. Especially when healthy foods usually taste better than unhealthy ones. 😛
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Disagree, a million times.
 
bigbad said:
Disagree, a million times.
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Seriously? Have you TASTED a carrot, apple, grape, orange, etc. recently? Those things are DELICIOUS. Carrots are like CANDY to me at this point. Just eliminate added sugars and added salts and BOOM. Within weeks, healthier foods taste infinitely better than unhealthy ones.

Your taste buds have just been tortured to the point that unhealthy foods are palatable. :laugh:
 
My friend's Psychiatrist approved of his smoking, as it decreased his anxiety.

But really, this anti-smoking mentality that's being forming the past few decades is really annoying. I've seen so many non-smokers judge smokers. Just let people do what the want, and leave it at that. I don't even know why there should be any legitimate discussion on peoples approvals of doctors smoking.

I'm smoking as I type this 😀
 
Janieve said:
Seriously? Have you TASTED a carrot, apple, grape, orange, etc. recently? Those things are DELICIOUS. Carrots are like CANDY to me at this point. Just eliminate added sugars and added salts and BOOM. Within weeks, healthier foods taste infinitely better than unhealthy ones.

Your taste buds have just been tortured to the point that unhealthy foods are palatable. :laugh:
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I'm mildly allergic to most fruits and vegetables, soo even though I may like eating them, it is rather unpleasant to do so without cooking them etc. in order to denature whatever it is I'm allergic to.

I see what you're saying and I think healthy food makes me happier and feel better, but I don't think it's more delicious. From an evolutionary standpoint, fatty or high starch/sugar food tastes better because it gives us more energy. Who's gonna live longer, the guy who eats a pig, or the guy who eats a bush full of berries? When you're at the point of subsistence, you want the high fat food item.
 
McBatCommander said:
Just let people do what the want, and leave it at that.
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Gladly. Just as soon as they stop doing it around me and other people it affects negatively and stop flinging their cigarette butts everywhere. Those are the parts that I hate and object most to, and I think they should be common courtesy.
 
I don't care really if people smoke although as a future physician you're supposed to at least tell them it's unhealthy.

Now if you're dealing with a doc that smokes, well that's different. Docs are supposed to set a good example for their patients in terms of health though ironically they don't do that cause they can't. 1. no time to eat healthy during residency when finding enough time for sleep itself is a challenge. But having a doc who smokes tell you to stop smoking is kinda hypocritical as a fat doc telling her patients to lose weight would be kinda silly. Like the saying says, do as I say and not as I do.
 
Evergrey said:
I'm mildly allergic to most fruits and vegetables, soo even though I may like eating them, it is rather unpleasant to do so without cooking them etc. in order to denature whatever it is I'm allergic to.

I see what you're saying and I think healthy food makes me happier and feel better, but I don't think it's more delicious. From an evolutionary standpoint, fatty or high starch/sugar food tastes better because it gives us more energy. Who's gonna live longer, the guy who eats a pig, or the guy who eats a bush full of berries? When you're at the point of subsistence, you want the high fat food item.
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I think it's more delicious, but that's my opinion. I practically vomit when I eat anything deep fried or sugar/salt-loaded, and the more grease the more likely I am to dump it on the ground for the dog. I've been on an 'unprocessed foods only' kick for a year or so, and things I used to think were delicious (sugary cereals, fried chicken, etc.) make me sick now.

So hey, I have no problem with the pig. Eat as much of it as you want. It's when you fry the pig in grease and throw a ton of salt and sugar in that I'm going to jump in and say no. You get what I mean?
 
Janieve said:
I think it's more delicious, but that's my opinion. I practically vomit when I eat anything deep fried or sugar/salt-loaded, and the more grease the more likely I am to dump it on the ground for the dog. I've been on an 'unprocessed foods only' kick for a year or so, and things I used to think were delicious (sugary cereals, fried chicken, etc.) make me sick now.

So hey, I have no problem with the pig. Eat as much of it as you want. It's when you fry the pig in grease and throw a ton of salt and sugar in that I'm going to jump in and say no. You get what I mean?
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Yeah, I totally agree with you. I wish I could take as many steps as you to live healthily, but I still try to eat well. I definitely minimize junk food, never eat fast food, make sure I eat at least 3-5 servings of fruits and vegetables a day, eat red meat once every two weeks or so, exercise multiple times a week, stuff like that.

Maybe I should take a pledge one day to just eat perfectly for two weeks, and then see how my body likes it. My body would probably be ecstatic. It's not an option right now because of how chaotic things are, but maybe in a month or two I can do something like that.

I am a huge advocate of personal responsibility, and I wish more Americans prescribed to it. IMO the biggest problem with our health system by far is our own laziness and greed. Unfortunately, it's hard for the government to take steps against that... I wish that fast food would get taxed just as heavily as cigarettes though. I see little difference between the two, and it will help save our economy.
 
I just assume they are trying to reduce their risk of ulcerative colitis.
 
lostking243 said:
no one's perfect
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Amen Brother (or sister)



Janieve said:
I don't care what your reasons for defending smokers are. Choosing to start smoking is an idiotic decision and you know it.
Click to expand...

Janieve said:
when there are healthy options available, eating unhealthy foods is pretty idiotic. Especially when healthy foods usually taste better than unhealthy ones. 😛
Click to expand...

Janieve said:
Carrots are like CANDY to me at this point.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Smoking doesn't make someone a bad person. Really isn't that bad of a thing b/c a smoker is only harming himself or herself (and maybe dwellers of the same house).
 
asdf
 
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once said:
Smoking doesn't make someone a bad person. Really isn't that bad of a thing b/c a smoker is only harming himself or herself (and maybe dwellers of the same house).
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I just really really want small cell lung cancer
 
JokerMD said:
just a word of caution: VERY VERY few people (if any) in your medical school class will smoke.
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I'm sorry, but unless you're lying, you're pre-med. Far from the person to trust about that statement.
 
Kaustikos said:
I'm sorry, but unless you're lying, you're pre-med. Far from the person to trust about that statement.
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It's actually pretty accurate. From my experience many med students tend to be the type A personality that carries over from school to their daily lives. Hence, many don't smoke and a lot are in pretty good shape as they run/workout/ball etc. Very surprising since the bio grad students, on the other hand, tend to be slobs as they just sit in lab and get fat. Most anyway :meanie:
 
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