SMP chances??

[XOT]

Hi everyone,

I was hoping to receive some advice on the unusual circumstance I currently am in.

I entered my first UG institute in 2000 and completed approximately 75 credits with a cGPA of 2.2 in 4 yrs. At this college I received many C, D, and F in science courses, but did okay in non-science. In 2006 I enrolled into another school and took 70 credits of science course and 9 credits of non-science course and earned a BS in BMS with a cGPA of 3.18. On this transcript I unfortunately have 8 W's and I retook classes a few times.

I have an MCAT score of 33O and a strong EC background (hospital work and volunteer). I also plan on taking an intense semester in the winter (2011) with 12 Credits of new upper-level Science courses. This would put my cGPA, ONLY at the school I recently graduated from, at 3.29.

I really would appreciate anyone that can let me know what my chances are at getting into an SMP (Georgetown preferably)...My main question (one that I absolutely can not get a good answer to) is how SMP may calculate my GPA. Will they look ONLY at my GPA from the school I recently graduated from (3.18-3.29), or will they include the four years (2000-2004) of horrible grades I received?

Thank you to anyone that can help me out

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[deleted248403]

I would imagine SMPs use the same criteria as AMCAS does (esp the MD-school based SMPs) which is every class ever taken at the post-high school level gets factored together.

Based on what you said, I think your GPAs will be much lower than they are right now based on the way re-takes are calculated

 

[DrMidlife]

A good SMP will want to see your med school application, if you have one. An SMP app asks for the same stuff as a med school app.

You're required to submit your cumulative undergrad overall and science GPAs, certainly at any program that offers demonstrable results in getting people into med school. SMP admissions are competitive at schools that have good results.

I think you'll want to focus on DO schools. Look at the biomed sci MS programs at schools like PCOM, LECOM, etc.

Best of luck to you.

 

[jslo85]

To even get into a DO SMP you're going to need to retake most of those medical pre-reqs. I'm not certain on how all DO SMPs calculate GPA on applications but I do know that some simply use your AACOMAS application. Therefore you have 75 credits of a 2.2 and 70 credits of a 3.18 and 12 credits of a 3.29 right? Try inputting it into an AACOMAS coursework excel sheet and finding exactly what your sGPA and cGPA will be.

You will need to retake all the below C medical pre-reqs but if you have a GPA of a 2.85+, I'd venture forth with a couple applications to the 1 year graduate programs at DO schools such as LECOM, PCOM, Touro NV, Touro NY, and Western-COMP. I think DbDan had a sub 2.9 GPA with an MCAT score around your ballpark and managed to secure a linkage seat at Western.

 

[XOT]

Thank you for the feedback!

I can have a AACOMA GPA of 3.02 by the end of the winter (4/2011). I may be okay for DO school apps.

I just wanted to know if I had any options for SMP. I prefer to enter an MD rather than a DO program. My top choices would be Georgetown, Drexel, Cinnc, and Toledo. It seems like the Georgetown app. I looked at online does not use the AMCAS app...I am not sure?

I PLAN TO TAKE AN INTENSE SEMESTER IN THE WINTER WITH NEW UPPER-LEVEL BMS COURSES. I THINK THIS WOULD DEMONSTRATE MY ABILITY TO DO WELL IN SMP. MY RECENT TRANSCRIPT ALSO INCLUDES COURSES SUCH AS MICRO, ANATOMY, PHYSIOLOGY, PATHOPHYS, IMMUNOLOGY WITH GRADES RANGING FROM B- TO B+.

Can anyone recommend a good route to take to get into an SMP program with my situation. Like I mentioned, in my first UG transcript, I have a cGPA of 2.2 and 75 credits. I graduated from a different school in 2010, after taking 70 credits, including prereq. Science course I took at my first school. My cGPA at this school is 3.18.

THANK YOU

 

[ModernAlchemist]

Thank you for the feedback!

I can have a AACOMA GPA of 3.02 by the end of the winter (4/2011). I may be okay for DO school apps.

I just wanted to know if I had any options for SMP. I prefer to enter an MD rather than a DO program. My top choices would be Georgetown, Drexel, Cinnc, and Toledo. It seems like the Georgetown app. I looked at online does not use the AMCAS app...I am not sure?

I PLAN TO TAKE AN INTENSE SEMESTER IN THE WINTER WITH NEW UPPER-LEVEL BMS COURSES. I THINK THIS WOULD DEMONSTRATE MY ABILITY TO DO WELL IN SMP. MY RECENT TRANSCRIPT ALSO INCLUDES COURSES SUCH AS MICRO, ANATOMY, PHYSIOLOGY, PATHOPHYS, IMMUNOLOGY WITH GRADES RANGING FROM B- TO B+.

Can anyone recommend a good route to take to get into an SMP program with my situation. Like I mentioned, in my first UG transcript, I have a cGPA of 2.2 and 75 credits. I graduated from a different school in 2010, after taking 70 credits, including prereq. Science course I took at my first school. My cGPA at this school is 3.18.

THANK YOU

If this is really what you want, you have to impress SMP programs with what looks to them as a comeback from bad grads. In my opinion, it wouldn't be smart to go for an MD SMP with an undergraduate gpa that low. I think some of the ones you mentioned even screen out <3.0 cumulative or BCPM. I would recommend doing a DO SMP, personally. Check out the ones that are stickied. If you didn't already have so many units, I would have recommended post-bacc. Listen to others that posted because they KNOW how this process works. Also, it would probably do you a lot of good to look at the Underdog thread on this forum because there are probably quite a few people in your position. Good luck!

 

[XOT]

It seems as if the consensus here is that SMP's will most likely calculate my cGPA using all the courses I have taken in the last 10 years.

How do you guys think an intense 12-credit Post-Bach semester of upper-level science courses (Pharmacology, Cancer Genetics, Embryology, and medical Virology), with all A's, will be weighed??

I know I can never escape my poor performance at my first UG school, but I have to remain hopeful that there is some way to achieve my goal....

THANKS for all the reply's!

 

[jslo85]

Okay.

There is a fine line between pursuing your dream and being realistic that you always walk when going through the medical school application process, whether that is applying to medical school or to SMPs. You say your AACOMAS GPA is a 3.02 which would factor in retakes (I don't know if you plan on retaking classes but I'm assuming so) replacing your previous grades but understand that allopathic SMPs and many DO SMPs will not calculate it this way.

This may just be my own opinion but with a sub 3.0 GPA and your current MCAT, you can scratch off UCinn off your list as well as Georgetown. You may have a shot at UT which I believe averages are a 28-29 MCAT and a 3.3 GPA depending on how Adcoms will look at your MCAT score vs. your coursework and I have no idea how Drexel will view things. I do know that Drexel only accepts about 10-15% of their IMS students back into DU-COM though from their IMS program so it begs the question whether other schools would look favorably upon students that DU won't take back in themselves.

If I was an Adcom (obviously I'm not one so take this with a grain of salt) I see a C student taking basic science pre-reqs who has evolved into a B student taking UG upper division courses. Your MCAT score of a 33 suggests that you are more intelligent/capable than what your GPA demonstrates but taking both into consideration = you don't apply yourself or work/study hard enough in school and you don't want it that badly. That's my honest assessment. I'd pray that whatever allopathic program that you're applying to has few applicants that year or less than average stats.

I have a classmate who has a 31 MCAT and a 3.0 GPA (2.9 sGPA) who has a low C in physio and an F in biochem in my SMP right now (DO). If you aren't a medical or SMP student, I believe it is hard for you to understand the difficulty of these programs. It's not really how smart you are though that helps in absorbing the information/connecting the dots. It's about how motivated you are and how well you can time organize/prioritize/conceptualize. We cover in 2 days worth of biochem lectures the equivalent of 3 and a half weeks of biochem. If you can only pull Bs in your UG, then even if you look extremely optomistically, you're at best a low B student in your program. That means you're a marginal B student with a very troubled academic past. Would you want yourself to be in a medical school where all your classmates have an avg of 3.5+ GPA and 32-33 MCAT if you were an Adcom? I'm guessing probably not.

If you had to attend an MD SMP, I would aim RFU MBS, UT and VCU CERT. They're the ones with the highest linkage and the most flexible admissions criteria together that I know of.

 

[XOT]

Thanks for your assessment jslo85! I really appreciate it.

As for my motivation level, I can only say that it would be tough to find someone more motivated than I am. This assessment is always subjective, and anyone can say they are "motivated," but only I know the extent of my motivation and the effort I will put in to successed. I think I have a few legitimate points that I can demonstrate to ADCOM to prove this.

Classes such as Physics and Chem have always given me problems because I do not enjoy them. When I combined these courses with the Biomedical classes (classes I will take in SMP and Medical School), it drained alot of my time. I am hoping to take an intense semester of just BMS courses and get A's. This hopefully will help my chances...

Are you planning on entering an MD program after you complete the DO SMP?? GOOD LUCK TO YOU

 

[XOT]

Does anyone have a list of strong DO SMP's--I tried this forum and could not find it? THANKS

 

[Deleted member 237747]

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[DrMidlife]

Does anyone have a list of strong DO SMP's--I tried this forum and could not find it? THANKS

Category 2 in this post includes a bunch of programs at DO schools: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302
I don't think of the DO programs as SMPs, but you can think of them any way you want. My definition of SMP is a program that puts you through the first year of med school, in class and graded on the same curve with med students, for the sole purpose of demonstrating you can handle med school. Grads of the DO BMS programs get into med school, but the programs don't follow med school curricula - they're more traditional thesis masters. If I'm wrong on this (anybody) please provide links to counterexamples.

There are not that many DO schools (32 or so), and it looks to me like a growing number are offering grad study. You can get links to the schools on www.aacom.org.

Can one get in MD program after DO SMP? I think DO SMP's are the ones done at DO schools.

Weren't we just here? http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=768267

 

[jslo85]

Category 2 in this post includes a bunch of programs at DO schools: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302
I don't think of the DO programs as SMPs, but you can think of them any way you want. My definition of SMP is a program that puts you through the first year of med school, in class and graded on the same curve with med students, for the sole purpose of demonstrating you can handle med school. Grads of the DO BMS programs get into med school, but the programs don't follow med school curricula - they're more traditional thesis masters. If I'm wrong on this (anybody) please provide links to counterexamples.

Not worth digging through school catalogs but I would say that your assessment is correct and not IMHO, mainly depending on which program you are looking at.

Couple examples would be, Nova MBS allows you to take 3-4 full medical school or dental school courses (with students, same tests, everything) and if you get a 90% or above, you don't need to retake them when you matriculate in during the fall but you TA the courses for your classmates (kind of like Tulane ACP with physio). Another would be Touro NV which does the same as Nova in allowing their students to actually take the medical school classes but does not transfer credit. My current program at LECOM is based off the first year medical school curriculum with the same professors and material (abridged for a few courses like anatomy: no head or extremities) but no research or thesis (if you continue on for the second year for the M.S. you will need to). We switch off professors with the medical students based on what they aren't teaching (they started with anatomy, histo and embryo) so we had Dr. McCabe/Jones/Hultgren for physio and the biochem faculty. Now that they're done with anatomy, we are finishing physio on Monday allowing McCabe to switch back to teach the OMS-1s. THe material we learn in any course is about 45-50% hard science and the other half clinical (aortic stenosis, nystagmus, reading EKGs for long Q-T syndrome) that make me inclined to shy away from "traditional master's" as a definition. Questions that are tested are also all clinical which is why it's recommended to have a BRS book on hand for further practice/review (man comes in to ER presenting symptoms of *insert condition here", patient has history of "insert history here", EKG shows "insert EKG here", BP is _ _ _ /_ _ , HR _ _ what do you suspect?) Usually the one year programs (VCOM, LECOM, PCOM, TCOM GSBS) as a general broad based rule are purely lecture based with TUNV and TUNY having 1 year programs which I'm not sure how they get around the research part. Probably a library thesis like BU MAMS I'm guessing.

But you are correct for many other programs. KCOM offers 2 or 3 full medical school core classes each semester depending on which track you are in (you can transfer credit when you matriculate) but is quite research/dissection heavy for your other courses. MBS is such a subjective and broad degree that it encompasses many different types of curriculums/programs depending on the school.