SMP or no?

[hopeanddream88]

Hi. I am going to be a senior this upcoming year. I have a 3.08cumGPA. I am thinking of doing a SMP program, but I am worried that I will do poorly in it and ruin my school record permanetly and not get into any med school. I am not doing that great in my upperdivision sciences and my prereqs. Does this mean I'll prolly do bad in the medical courses in the SMP program too??

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[TyrKinase]

There is little doubt that SMP courses are more difficult than undergraduate courses, both upper and lower division. Plenty of people with your GPA have gone on to be successful at an SMP but such progress virtually requires that you address the reasons for your substandard GPA before you attend the SMP.

My unsolicited two cents on your senior year: figure out what to do and fix it. Get As (and Bs if you have to) and bring your GPA up as much as possible. If need be, stick around for a fifth year or go to another 4-year institution and take additional upper division science courses. It'll be cheaper than an SMP and you might be able to get your GPA to something close to competitive.

Good luck!

 

[hopeanddream88]

but with an SMP program, it could enhance one's chances of getting into medical school. i think even with 2 years just taking classes, it won't help my gpa that much. i don't know what to do.

 

[4thMolar]

It would be better for you to do a 1 year SMP course rather than take another 2 years or so trying to raise your undergrad GPA without getting an additional degree. The courses in the SMP will be beneficial to you in med school as you will be exposed to the same material. Additionally, if you do well, it will show the adcoms you can handle med school. I know you're concerned about not doing well in the SMP, but you have to do what's necessary to get into med school. When you know this is your last chance to get into med school, you're going to be a lot more motivated and have a better work ethic to do well.

 

[mommy2three]

i can speak from both sides of the fence on this one....literally.
i have failing grades in my past distant life and i pay for them with a lower cum gpa. now do failing classes in radio-television lead to me being a poorer doctor? absolutely not.....but admissions seem to be focused on what numbers we bring to the table rather than what those numbers are in.
i was told my only chance at ever getting in was a smp by numerous admissions counselors...i had to prove i could do graduate work...period.
i enrolled in one here in the chicago area in 2005-2006 which at that time has a linkage program if you were able to maintain a 2.96 or above gpa. i was good going into my last quarter...then right at midterms i got sick. as in had to be in the hospital for 2 days because i could not keep anything down sick. and i missed a biochem midterm. the program i was in did not allow makeups...something which the med students we were taking classes with were allowed. so my final became worth 74% of my grade. i missed getting a b on that final by one question...one lousy question. and i lost my chance for a linkage.
and then i was screwed. i had a chance to prove myself and i failed. i took grad classes and raised my grad gpa to 3.0 but it still was not good enough. for all intents and purposes, i was blacklisted.
then i decided one more time...another smp program. i applied and was waitlisted. somehow, by the grace of God, i got a last minute call of the waitlist and now i am here. i have fully dedicated myself to success. i learned from the first time what it takes and how much work it takes to succeed. this past year has been filled with problems and bumps, but they have ot deterred my success. i am taking names and doing well. i now have a chance...a real chance at finally seeing my dream realized.

moral of the story....yes a smp is a ton of work. yes you have to be willing to sacrifice for the time you are there. yes you need to limit time out with your friends/family and pray that they understand this is what you need to do for YOU. yes you need to cut down extra activities and gatherings to a bare minimum...and even when i do attend gatherings, 9 times out of 10 i have my books or materials with me. but in the end...if this is truely your dream, then it is worth it. if this is the only way for you to realize something you know in your heart you were born to do then go for it.

if i can be of any more help, please feel free to pm me

 

[hopeanddream88]

thank you for sharing your advice. i am pretty worried that if i don't do well in the SMP classes, then my chances are gone. but, i agree that i will work hard and try my best. did anyone wait till their SMP program was done then apply or do most ppl apply to med school be4 they start their SMP program. because if you do badly in the SMP classes, then you just wasted all that money.

 

[mommy2three]

thank you for sharing your advice. i am pretty worried that if i don't do well in the SMP classes, then my chances are gone. but, i agree that i will work hard and try my best. did anyone wait till their SMP program was done then apply or do most ppl apply to med school be4 they start their SMP program. because if you do badly in the SMP classes, then you just wasted all that money.

i think it depends on the program, your stats on getting in and what they consider in their application.
we had 5 people in my class get in after 1st yr...that is out of 29 students in the class. i know they looked heavily at their biochem and physio grades which were what we took the first few quarters and that no decisions were made until after grades were out.
loyolas program here is built in a way that you need a yr off after you finish to apply.
i think wherever you go, you will find out what they do when you get there. it varies from school to school. and i found admissions people are much happier to talk to you once you are a paying student of the university

it is definetely a TON of work but it is sooo sooo worth it. you can do it...just keep your eyes on the prize.

 

[camaras2480]

thank you for sharing your advice. i am pretty worried that if i don't do well in the SMP classes, then my chances are gone. but, i agree that i will work hard and try my best. did anyone wait till their SMP program was done then apply or do most ppl apply to med school be4 they start their SMP program. because if you do badly in the SMP classes, then you just wasted all that money.

There are generally two classes of SMPs: those that link, and those that don't. Georgetown is widely considered the most reputable linkage SMP. Boston University is widely considered the most reputable non-linkage SMP.

Linkage schools expect you to apply before starting the SMP. Non-linkage schools expect you to apply after completing the first year of the SMP. Note the word expect. You are free to apply when you wish. This is just how success in a given program is generally optimized.

SMPs are known to be high risk, high reward. You are being honest with yourself that you are worried. This is important - you have to understand the risk. Someone told a nice story on this thread about how they are doing a double SMP. You certainly don't want to fall into that category, and spend all that money.

Enough scaring you.

Know this: SMPs are totally beatable. Your life will be packed away in a box, tucked away in a corner for those 9 or 10 months. But this is a small price to pay if the reward is med school, IMO.

You are going to be a senior. Figure out how to get near a 4.0 for this upcoming year. That should pull your GPA to something a bit more respectable, like a 3.25 perhaps? Do the math and check.

With a 3.25, and a strong SMP (strong = 3.5+ minimum requirement), you will have set the table for the great equalizer as they say: the MCAT. IMO, a uGPA 3.25, SMP GPA 3.75, and MCAT 32 will get you into one of the less selective MD schools in the US.

So it is definitely possible. Just brace yourself.

Also, alternatively, do not forget osteopathic medicine. You could avoid an SMP if choose to go the DO route, since AACOMAS allows grade forgiveness (replacing grades when you retake the courses = "raising" your GPA much faster).

 

[hopeanddream88]

wow. really? strong = 3.5+ minimum requirement??? i thought strong was a 3.0??

 

[camaras2480]

I think he was referring to the 3.5 as in 3.5+ in your SMP GPA once you get into an SMP and not 3.5 to get into an SMP.

Yup, thanks. A strong performance IN the SMP is generally considered to be 3.5+.

 

[mommy2three]

the "unofficial" word on campus here when i got here was to aim for a 3.25

This is important - you have to understand the risk. Someone told a nice story on this thread about how they are doing a double SMP. You certainly don't want to fall into that category, and spend all that money.

i told my story because i made mistakes the first time aruond. yes i am spending more money to get here but that is besides the point. i was also unsure about the first smp i did. i am simply trying to pass along lessons i learned from making mistakes.
and i am fortunate to be able to do one again...to have yet anotehr chance at realizing my dream.

 

[camaras2480]

the "unofficial" word on campus here when i got here was to aim for a 3.25



i told my story because i made mistakes the first time aruond. yes i am spending more money to get here but that is besides the point. i was also unsure about the first smp i did. i am simply trying to pass along lessons i learned from making mistakes.
and i am fortunate to be able to do one again...to have yet anotehr chance at realizing my dream.

3.25 is a really average number at many SMPs. May I ask which one you are at? For example, at Georgetown and Boston University, a 3.25 is mediocre. In fact, from what I understand, a 3.25 from BU is really tough to overcome.

However, I love your success story - I know it isn't complete yet, but for what it's worth, you have my support!

 

[mommy2three]

May I ask which one you are at?

i am at mwu-il's bms program. as i said that was the "unofficial" word around campus from people. obviously you want to do better

 

[mommy2three]

That's cuz you are at one that is for DO schools and getting into DO schools mostly. For MD schools I'd imagine they'd want you to do higher.

i was basing it on what people here said from where they got in. and actually a fair bit of last yrs class got into allo schools.
my gpa i much higher butu i was told this is what to aim for...i think they were referring to acceptance to ccom, but who knows.

 

[camaras2480]

i am at mwu-il's bms program. as i said that was the "unofficial" word around campus from people. obviously you want to do better

Cool thanks! Yes I understand, I just wanted to know where the unofficial word was 3.25 haha. Good luck!

 

[camaras2480]

And anyway (to guju and mommy), it is an unofficial number. A 3.25 would not eliminate you from allopathic schools (just make it rather difficult), and it would be a good number for osteopathic schools. So I suppose it can act as a sort of minimum requirement at this program.

Also @ mommy, note that guju was not trying to bash your own, personal GPA

 

[hopeanddream88]

so is SMP really worth it?? like you could do poorly and affect your whole med school app forever.
are there any other programs that has the same effect as an SMP program?? like if you do really well, then it increases your chances of getting in.

 

[camaras2480]

so is SMP really worth it?? like you could do poorly and affect your whole med school app forever.
are there any other programs that has the same effect as an SMP program?? like if you do really well, then it increases your chances of getting in.

SMP is widely considered to be the last hope; a desperate attempt to fix things to catapult yourself into medical school. There are no other programs that have this impact. High risk, high reward.

 

[mommy2three]

But they are still probably basing it off of what is acceptable for DO schools. If they got in allo schools my guess is either their past wasn't that horrible or they had stronger SMP gpas then 3.25. And also I was not assuming anything about what you got.

what i was trying to convey...rather poorly at that.....is that poor performance in one smp does not equal poor performance in another smp.

i think, and i can base it on two very different experiences, that the key to success in any smp is that you find one which you are comfortable with in order to maximize your chance at success. you need to find the program which best suites you and your learning style to succeed. one smp is not the same as another, each has its own good points and bad. if anyone has any doubt about where they are going then they should not go...at least imho.

 

[camaras2480]

what i was trying to convey...rather poorly at that.....is that poor performance in one smp does not equal poor performance in another smp.

I can't entirely agree with this. A poor performance in any SMP is going to cause a lot of grief. Note that by "poor" I am referring to anything below 3.0. Even many candidates in the 3.0-3.5 range have difficulty, but of course many of these candidates get in to med school as well.

i think, and i can base it on two very different experiences, that the key to success in any smp is that you find one which you are comfortable with in order to maximize your chance at success. you need to find the program which best suites you and your learning style to succeed. one smp is not the same as another, each has its own good points and bad. if anyone has any doubt about where they are going then they should not go...at least imho.

It is nice to have perspectives from someone having experienced 2 SMPs. Of course, the success at a given program is the most important factor - even more than simply "being comfortable" with that program. The goal of every SMP student is to strive for the 4.0 (if that is not their goal, they probably shouldn't be there).

Every SMP is definitely different, with good and bad points. I partly agree with your last statement, assuming you meant "medicine" ... if anyone has a doubt about going to medicine, they may not be a great student under the rigors of an SMP program. However, also remember that there are many students who attend an SMP still undecided, and find the experience to be truly reinforcing regarding shooting for med school.

 

[camaras2480]

Also an SMP is a final gambit for most. I sure hope most are not in your situation where they are doing 2 SMPs. I've seen people in my situation of doing a grad program and then an SMP. But not 2 SMPs. The point of an SMP is that it is your final gambit for med school. You mess up at one even if you do well at another one it will still hurt you.

Yes, this is generally quite true, unfortunately. A "poor" or "weak" SMP performance is not overshadowed by another "stronger" SMP performance. The first SMP is certainly never overlooked.

 

[hopeanddream88]

"The goal of every SMP student is to strive for the 4.0." thats really tough cause med school classes are not that easy. do most people in SMP do well and get accepted to MD schools rather than DO schools. maybe some people would do an SMP program because they want to increase the chances of them getting into a MD school rather than DO school.

 

[hopeanddream88]

i was looking at http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=640302, another forum about programs.

"Category 2: Grad work that gets people into med school (33 programs)
- A wee bit o'prestige: your GPA isn't THAT bad and grad work would beef up your app.
- Disaster recovery: your GPA is bad, but one year in an "SMP" could get you in."

are these a good option too?? can these get you into med school too?? will this be considered a graduate gpa??

 

[hopeanddream88]

I haven't taken my MCATs yet, but I don't think I can get about a really good score. I have 1 year of upward trend and hopefully this upcoming year.

 

[camaras2480]

"The goal of every SMP student is to strive for the 4.0." thats really tough cause med school classes are not that easy. do most people in SMP do well and get accepted to MD schools rather than DO schools.

Not really sure what you are trying to say here. I was just commenting that most candidates in SMP are trying to get a 4.0 - not saying they all get a 4.0.

If you do well in SMP (3.5+) you have a good shot at MD schools, assuming a good MCAT (32+) and strong ECs.

maybe some people would do an SMP program because they want to increase the chances of them getting into a MD school rather than DO school.

This is the reason SMPs were created... very, very few students do SMP to go to DO school, because postbac is a better and cheaper option.