sneaky advice for premeds

[woolie]

I agree about these 'sneaky' tactics and when I was a Ugrad first timje around I was so naive that I took a very difficult major (Latn), and advanced courses (translating crazy English texts to Latin), and did NOT use English translations to do my translations. As a result, I would show up to class with these weird, awkward trnaslations that sounded like I was from the back hills - while my more intelligent and sophisticated classmates skated along with beautiful, polished trnaslations that they spent like, half the time on and got from some translation.

Also, we had people who would cram their semesters with courses knowing they would just plead an incomplete out of their profs and then leisurely finsih up in January. Eventually the school said 'no more inc.s!' So now, years later as I am typing in hard won B+'s I feel like sheesh! maybe I should have followed everyone else, and I feel like I was an idiot to struggle with something I really loved.

People I knew used to take the "easy profs" to pad their gpa's and one guy got into Harvard Law based on his charm, good looks and lots of easy A's - because he surely didn't have the brains. Oh, and he was captain of our winning crew team ...

Do I sound bitter? I feel a little bent about it ...

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[MSTP boy]

Originally posted by gobruins
Something I heard was useful: Take your classes off-track.

Not sure about other schools but UCLA usually offers the same classes every quarter. So instead of taking the first O-chem class fall quarter of your 2nd year, take it the winter quarter. You avoid alot of the freak-gunner-die-hard premeds that way.

I *totally* agree with this one. Also, you'll notice that the anals/gunners tend to take the earliest classes, whereas the slackers take the 12:00 classes...easier in these. Go for the same classes which aren't as crowded, and you will flourish, and the prof remembers u. Taking the classes off-track allows u to integrate with upperclassmen, and at the same time, your friends are plowing through the dumb premed reqs, just so that they can coredump all their backexams on you so u can breeze through'em.

The problem with *not* using backexams is that inevitably someone else will...resulting a class average of 85% on an exam that made no sense whatsoever.
Deal in backexams...trade, collect, give, save. Anticipate the classes u'll take, and start collecting them in advance. On the night before the test, make sure u can answer every question cold. For classes where the prof is new, or the exams are hard to get, then just study hard...you won't have to worry about others having the exams, it's just the curve will be set lower. Also, study the final/midterm for every exam, since questions usually get mixed up...and study a few years back, since profs like to alternate years.

Having a back test is like having antibiotic resistance...no matter how bad or poorly written the test is, you'll still survive.

 

[8744]

Originally posted by lola
I don't know where all of you went to school, but getting past tests was TOTALLY discouraged/unethical at my school, and I don't know of hardly anyone who did it. I had a copy of an old calc test once, and felt incredibly guilty for using it. (Incidentally, I did worse on that test than on the other tests when I didn't have an old exam.) Maybe I just wasn't aware, but I had no idea people actually went to such great lengths to cheat the system. I mean, sure, I took the regular physics rather than the physics with calc. But this was simply because I don't like physics and didn't want to spend loads of time deriving fancy equations, not because I was thinking about my BCPM GPA. I didn't even know what the BCPM GPA was!
Some of this advice is great and it's important to use your common sense. I also think it's important not to get too caught up in the whole pre-med thing. Take the courses you want to take, do the extracurriculars you want to do, and don't waste your energy trying to cheat the system. In my opinion, you will be more likely to get recommenders who will highly recommend you this way.
As for those people who pass everyone and merge at the last minute on the freeway, I CAN'T STAND THAT!!! I think that is so incredibly rude. C'mon people... think of other people sometimes, not just yourselves.

Hey Lola, while I agree with you in principle about old tests, you should know that in medical school old tests are the name of the game and are often circulated by the faculty, either on-line or on file in the library.

One of our pathology professors even included old test questions in her notes.

Recently, there has been a movement away from allowing us to keep our tests after the exams. This is more so the faculty doesn't have to come up with new questions every year than an effort to stop students from studying from old tests.

You should also realize that there is not a perfect correlation between what you learn in medical school and your grade. Tests in first and second year tend to contain a large percentage of intreresting but ultimately useless trivia included because it covers the professors narrow area of research.

We had about two whole days, for example, of lectures about proteoglycans and the like. Interesting stuff, no doubt, but an hour or two would have covered the subject in more detail then you will ever need.

So you can study all week and feel like you understand the subject and then be stumped by some "trivial pursuit" type question. Old test questions can prepare you for the particular trivia style of the course directors.

As for "sneaky tactics" used to get into medical school...well...not everybody is interested enough in dry subjects like organic chemistry to get good grades in honors classes. I would rather have lemon juice squeezed into my paper cuts then memorize chemical pathways, for example, and am thankful that my Alma Mater's chemistry program sucked so hard that I was able to get an easy "A." I didn't really care, I just wanted to get into medical school.

By the way, with the exception of the mental discipline that should be learned during your undergraduate years, I can't think of too many courses that were essential for medical school. Maybe general chemistry and a little biology but certainly not organic chemistry, physics, or calculus. (Except as far as these things train you to learn.)

Heck, medical school biochemistry is nothing like undergraduate organic chemistry. All three quarters of undergraduate organic did for me was make me passingly familiar with terms and broad concepts. I recall that most of my time in undergraduate organic chemistry was spent memorizing chemical structures, following the electrons, and tracking the course of chemical reactions atom by atom. We did almost none of this in medical school.

Don't be so hard on us less-then-perfect medical students. I wasn't going to let the fact that I have only an average IQ keep me from going to medical school.

 

[jeffsleepy]

hmm... what about this. In many classes with problem sets, professors will post up the answers online. If you're taking a certain class, go to the website the semester before and save all of the answers. Many times, they'll use the same homeworks. Oh, and learn to use google cache . Is this cheating? Dunno, but I see everything posted online as fair game.

 

[asu03]

Well, here's some actual advice that is both useful and sneaky, but it's only sticking it to AAMC, so nobody will mind...

For all you August MCATers who will be dying to know your scores, do NOT pay to get your scores early. As soon as your scores are available, they will be posted on your AMCAS application and will be viewable when you click on the print option. This will save you $10 or $15 bucks.

Good luck!

 

[IndyZX]

i feel sorry for those who are such mental turmoil about using old tests..

college: just get good grades, have fun, and keep the stick out of your ass.

 

[IrishOarsman]

Originally posted by indyzx
keep the stick out of your ass.

1) Never doubt such advice.

teehee

2) If you've had a decent class in physics during high school (and esp. if you took the AP) or just happen to naturally like physics definately take the MCAT early, ie the August before the rest of your class. Reteaching yourself the necessary physics is not a big deal and if nothing else will make the upcoming class easier. Unless you are one of those people who needs to worry about 10 things to get anything done, taking that test w/ no other class work to worry about was perfect. I quit work early and zen'd out the whole week prior. I wouldn't say it's sneaky, but still good advice.

 

[ma-bas]

Go ahead. Take all the Nutrition classes you want. I was a Nutrition major, and not a pre-med at the time, and I laughed at all the pre-meds who took Nutrition classes to boost their gpas, and then were upset when the class was actually hard.

 

[QHamp]

Originally posted by Panda Bear

Don't be so hard on us less-then-perfect medical students. I wasn't going to let the fact that I have only an average IQ keep me from going to medical school.

Why is it people always think that their grades reflect their mental capabilty?

 

[8744]

Originally posted by QHamp
Why is it people always think that their grades reflect their mental capabilty?

I was being facetious!

The fact is that I would probably be at the top of the class if I didn't have three kids, four dogs, a house, and etc. I have demands and restrictions on my study time which many of my classmates can't imagine.

My six-month-old is still waking up every three hours. And it has been years since I have gotten an uniterrupted nights sleep.

I'm not sorry that I have a family. But seriously, how anybody in medical school without children can complain about lack of study time is beyond me.

I am not at the bottom of my class either, so I probably am as intelligent as anyone else in my class.

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by ma-bas
I laughed at all the pre-meds who took Nutrition classes to boost their gpas, and then were upset when the class was actually hard.

I used to teach those nutrition classes with students expecting a blow-off!

 

[gotgirth]

Originally posted by Alli Cat
Also, if you go to a really tough university, consider taking a pre-req or two at an easier institution. Med schools don't like you to take pre-reqs at a community college, but maybe your state school, if you're home for summer break or something.

Careful with this one...Teaching for Kaplan, one girl in my class had taken physics 2 at a community college...nothing wrong except the class didn't teach her the physics she needed to know. Her final exam contained ONE question: "Explain how electricity has impacted your life"

 

[Ernham]

Umm, also don't forget state schools are often more demanding in places such as the midwest. You ever heard of the "wisconsin idea"?

 

[FitnessModelMD]

to respond to those moral midgets who are calling this "sneaking"

IT IS NOT cheating or immorale to want the best grades possible.

NOR is it "honorable" to have your grade in a certain course be artificially lower than it should be , because your instructor "hates" pre-meds and makes the course material on the level that instructor understands it at (after 20+ years of teaching the same course!)

Instructors can make their courses as rigorous as they want, and complicate the subject 10x more than it really is.

A simple class I A'ced (statistics) was a cake walk (taught well), but another instructor on my same campus of East Indian decent makes the course IMPOSSIBLE for people being exposed to it the first time.

do i call that cheating? not hardly! and if you are going to be a doctor, you better learn how to deal with situations such as to yield maximum favorable results using the mechanism with most efficacy!

simple problem solving, try the path of least resistance first, then step up to more complicated methods...a little food for though!

 

[daphilster]

As a 2nd year at an extremely competiive med school, I say you should do whatever you feel comfortable with.
In spite of UCSF's warnings against taking easy coursework, UCSF admission will not know the level of difficulty of every single class you take. It is suspcious if you take something like nutrional science 10 or geology 2, but there are many upper division classes with 'easier' professors. For instance, at stanford there are plenty of professors who are known to be nicer guys. It does not mean you will learn less in the course if you have an easier prof, it may just mean there is less pressure prodding you to memorize insignificant details. I believe much of quality learning should be self-motivated anyways. And if you're from say California and applying to a school in the mid-west, then they will have no clue what you're classes are except for their title.

Do not listen to those who think this kind of strategizing is immoral!!!!! Nothing is further from the truth. These ppl would probably say it wrong to take tax deductions or shop for the best price in town for gas. These accusers are probably bitter because they fell short of being accepted to medical school because they did not know of this type of advice (and they go to school where the profs re-use the same damn test over and over again!!! to me this is most deprave act I've read so far in this forum!!!)

Here's how I would break it down: For some, college is more about experiences outside of classroom, and by all means take easy classes. To others who want to actively pursue an academic field in depth, do it. If you want to do this and get into med school, then you need to find a judicious balance between raising GPA and taking hard, but interesting coursework. Either way, MCATs and essays are great equalizers for all in the end.

For myself, I knowingly took a calculated risk in having a hard schedule of computer science and molecular biology, but I was lucky to have my cake and eat it too.

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

I think undergraduate education is really what you make of it. If you want to take easy courses so you can get that A or A- (not exactly possible at my school because there are no "easy" courses), then go right ahead. You'll graduate college with less knowledge than your peers who opted for the harder courses and chose to take the courses because they were genuinely interested in them, not because they had generous curves. On the other hand, there is nothing wrong with knowing the sytem and using it to give you every FAIR advantage you can. For instance, one of the orgo professors at my school posts all of his previous exams because he writes new exams exams every year. If you just study out of the textbook, you will probably not do as well as the students who studied the textbook material AND familiarized themselves with the exam material beforehand. I think many people make the mistake of just studying out of the textbook and assuming that the professor's exam questions will be exactly like the practice problems in the back of the chapters. The professor is not bound to make his exam questions like the ones you did for homework...its' his exam...he can come up with any exam question he wants. A student with good study habits would cover all of his bases by studying the textbook material, lecture notes, and any previous exams the professor makes available. I've also seen people take classes that have nothing to do with their major and do poorly in them. The perfectly fair and legal way to get around this is to take classes pass/no pass...that way, if you're very interested in quantum mechanics (upper division physics) but aren't doing so well in this course (let's say you're getting a C or C-)...you can just switch to pass/no pass so this course does not pull down your BCPM gpa and make you look horrible to med school adcoms. As long as you don't take an EXCESSIVE amount of pass/no pass units (upwards of 20 units out of your total amount of units by the time you graduate), you should be fine. If you graduate with 120-130 units, you should be ok with taking about 15 units pass/no pass assuming that none of these units are in your major. Also, some basic common sense advice...ASK AROUND about professors BEFORE you take their class. My school shows some of the results of the professor evaluation forms that we fill out after each class...this info is posted on a website. In addition, ask upperclassman about courses with particular professors...if an upperclassman tells you avoid Professor X like the plague...then it's probably not wise to sign up for Professor X's class. Well, there's my 2 cents...well...more like 20 cents in this case...have a goodnight guys...

 

[BerkeleyPremed]

bumping this back up...

 

[kmnfive]

i hesitantly respect the competition that the students in the top schools exercise. its a bit sad, and rather disapointing to see such carnage amongst peers. i understand that fairness has to be in order but what is wrong with helping each other out? as long as its not stealing the test material (mentioned somewhere on this thread) then its ok.

i dated this girl who went to ucla for a short time, beautiful, smart, funny, and i had fun with her. but something didnt click when i realized her philosphy of life; and i remember her telling me about the fierceness of the competition at her school; and an expereince she had with a classmate. she went to the library to read and saw someone she knew from class, glanced at what she was studying, realized that she was looking at the wrong material but didnt say a damn thing, only later to find out that she failed an upcoming exam.

i dont know. i think thats pretty horrible. the higher you get through life climbing over people, being selfish, spiteful, the harder your fall, and the hotter your hell will be in the end.

 

[sunflower79]

Mmm. I think part of the problem comes in the title of this thread. A lot of the advice given here I would label as strategic, not sneaky. I think it's smart to be strategic, but NOT at the expense of other pre-meds (e.g. stealing practice exams from the library, not helping others in order to benefit yourself).

One example of being strategic is not taking classes that you know you will do poorly in, e.g. advanced o-chem or (for me)philosophy at Berkeley, as much as I wanted to learn it and get a grade, or taking a class with an easier professor as opposed to a harder one.

And as for cutting everyone else to get off the freeway, I think that's just wrong. How would you like it if someone did that to you while you were in line? Would you think, "Boy they're smart, I wish I did that too"?! Listen to wise kmnfive. But besides that, I'm not sure this is a good analogy for this thread.

 

[sunflower79]

Originally posted by Bikini Princess
if you want to laugh at other people struggling, :wink: (just kidding) here are a few pointers:

*Past Tests*

start thinking about what classes you're going to take freshmen year, and getting copies of old tests early. For example, if you start saving biochem tests freshmen year, you should have 4+ years of tests by the time you take it senior year, and the class will be a breeze. Make friends with upper classmen in fraternities or sororities, they can hook you up.

. . .

*Advisors*

Choose your advisor well. This sounds easy, because pretty much all professors will be your advisor, and are smart. But look at the professor's track record with other students. Will this be a professor who will be asking questions during your senior thesis, or will they be defending questions for you? What kind of relations does this professor have outside of their university, or even their department?
Are they on influential academic committees? the premed committee? steering committees? Do they have lots of friends, or do they have lots of enemies?

hope this helps

I HATE this kind of advice!!! My dad has told me the same sort of thing and I thought, must I always use other people to my advantage?! I mean, if you area already friends with upperclassmen, fine, but to make friends with them solely for this purpose?!?! Come on. I hope you don't go to my med school.

 

[cmudan]

This was addressed on a thread called "Does psychology count" but maybe i can get some better insight. If I put my neuroscience classes(behavoral neuro, neuroanatomy, neuro seminar) down as science classes when my school classifies them as psych classes, amcas will change them and take forever doing so? Will it delay the whole process? I wouldn't think so, because pretty much everyone has at least one minor change on their course history section.

Let me know.
Dan

 

[Alli Cat]

Hi Fitness Model,

what a surprise to find this ol' post back up to the front lines! Anyway, I'm accepted to med school at this point, upper-division orgo B-/C be damned. So rest assured this is not a post made out of bitterness or anything.

I used to think that I was on some moral high ground just because I didn't take the easy road to A+'s. Berkeley Premed, there are easy courses you can take at Cal, and if you PM me I'll tell you which ones. (There aren't many though. ) I used to look down on kids, especially from other schools, who got 3.9 averages but didn't know half the **** I learned with my 3.45 GPA. But now I realize, as long as everyone else is boosting their GPA, you're dumb not to do it yourself. If everybody's cutting in line at the movies, do you just seethe in line and go nowhere, or do you cut as well? At some point, most people have to cut. If you enjoy the more rigorous courses, great! I did. So I'm not sorry I took them. But you have to weigh the possibility of loving the class and getting a bad grade against the desire to go to med school.

Don't worry, kids, if you're smart and you really want to go, it'll show and you'll get in. Also, not getting in isn't the worst thing in the world. Use the bio skills you elarned in upper division biochemistry to launch a startup biotech company. You'll make way more $$ than any of us pathetic slobs. Just go to business school first.

Love, Alli Cat

P.S. What do you have against East Indians, Model?

P.P.S. I never said that this stuff was cheating. I said it was sneaky. Huge difference.

Originally posted by FitnessModelMD
to respond to those moral midgets who are calling this "sneaking"

IT IS NOT cheating or immorale to want the best grades possible.

NOR is it "honorable" to have your grade in a certain course be artificially lower than it should be , because your instructor "hates" pre-meds and makes the course material on the level that instructor understands it at (after 20+ years of teaching the same course!)

Instructors can make their courses as rigorous as they want, and complicate the subject 10x more than it really is.

A simple class I A'ced (statistics) was a cake walk (taught well), but another instructor on my same campus of East Indian decent makes the course IMPOSSIBLE for people being exposed to it the first time.

do i call that cheating? not hardly! and if you are going to be a doctor, you better learn how to deal with situations such as to yield maximum favorable results using the mechanism with most efficacy!

simple problem solving, try the path of least resistance first, then step up to more complicated methods...a little food for though!

 

[kmnfive]

sunflower i PM'd u