so difficult to find physician only practice!

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ctsicu

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why is it so difficult to find physician only practices? i live in PA and there is one in the whole state!! i was working at a place where they have srna and we were required to let them do lines, etc. i decided i couldn't do that anymore because i don't want to teach them how to take my job away from me! but it is so hard to find anywhere on the east coast that uses doctors only.
so, i'm already cardiac trained and will be now pursuing critical care. feel like i need job security for the future......are we really going down the tubes? i'm only a year out and am depressed about the state of the profession.
 
why is it so difficult to find physician only practices? i live in PA and there is one in the whole state!! i was working at a place where they have srna and we were required to let them do lines, etc. i decided i couldn't do that anymore because i don't want to teach them how to take my job away from me! but it is so hard to find anywhere on the east coast that uses doctors only.
so, i'm already cardiac trained and will be now pursuing critical care. feel like i need job security for the future......are we really going down the tubes? i'm only a year out and am depressed about the state of the profession.

One word answer: Money $$$

Physicians are expensive compared to CRNAs. Join the Private Club if you want more info.

Money%20stacks.jpg
 
why is it so difficult to find physician only practices? i live in PA and there is one in the whole state!! i was working at a place where they have srna and we were required to let them do lines, etc. i decided i couldn't do that anymore because i don't want to teach them how to take my job away from me! but it is so hard to find anywhere on the east coast that uses doctors only.
so, i'm already cardiac trained and will be now pursuing critical care. feel like i need job security for the future......are we really going down the tubes? i'm only a year out and am depressed about the state of the profession.

putting in aline is not what a doctor makes. seriously. understanding the medical condition of the patient in light of the surgical procedure and implementing medical judgement is.. understand the difference. CRNAs will NEVER be able to implement sound medical judgement because they have no medical training.. thats YOUR job. They overstep their boundaries plenty.. but they have zero medical training thus cant have medical judgement
 
why is it so difficult to find physician only practices? i live in PA and there is one in the whole state!! i was working at a place where they have srna and we were required to let them do lines, etc. i decided i couldn't do that anymore because i don't want to teach them how to take my job away from me! but it is so hard to find anywhere on the east coast that uses doctors only.
so, i'm already cardiac trained and will be now pursuing critical care. feel like i need job security for the future......are we really going down the tubes? i'm only a year out and am depressed about the state of the profession.

2 fellowships = 500k+ in costs..

u sure about that?
 
why is it so difficult to find physician only practices? i live in PA and there is one in the whole state!! i was working at a place where they have srna and we were required to let them do lines, etc. i decided i couldn't do that anymore because i don't want to teach them how to take my job away from me! but it is so hard to find anywhere on the east coast that uses doctors only.
so, i'm already cardiac trained and will be now pursuing critical care. feel like i need job security for the future......are we really going down the tubes? i'm only a year out and am depressed about the state of the profession.


PA is a CRNA/midlevel cesspool so if you want to practice in a physician-only group you likely need to move. Besides, you are FOS. As an aside, you type like a murse and smell of a troll. Beat it murse!
 
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why is it so difficult to find physician only practices? i live in PA and there is one in the whole state!! i was working at a place where they have srna and we were required to let them do lines, etc. i decided i couldn't do that anymore because i don't want to teach them how to take my job away from me! but it is so hard to find anywhere on the east coast that uses doctors only.
so, i'm already cardiac trained and will be now pursuing critical care. feel like i need job security for the future......are we really going down the tubes? i'm only a year out and am depressed about the state of the profession.



:troll:
 
first off, i find being called a murse by a resident offensive considering that i'm a board certified attending with one fellowship already under my belt.

secondly, it isn't about money to the person who asked if 500,000 is worth it. its about being the most qualified and having the ability to be a true perioperative physician.

i'm totally disappointed by the responses on this forum for my first post.
 
first off, i find being called a murse by a resident offensive considering that i'm a board certified attending with one fellowship already under my belt.

secondly, it isn't about money to the person who asked if 500,000 is worth it. its about being the most qualified and having the ability to be a true perioperative physician.

i'm totally disappointed by the responses on this forum for my first post.

Sorry dude. You deserve better. Unless you want a job in academia then one fellowship is enough. You need to broaden your prospects nationally for a job.

Cardiac Attendings who passed the Exam (Testamur status) are a valuable commodity out there. Be patient and look nationally.

Blade
 
PA has ELEVEN CRNA Schools. That may explain why Physician only practices are rare. I believe 11 is the highest number of CRNA schools in any one state.
 
really not that worried about money...think i'm going to have to end up in academics to do both crit care and cardiac...most private practices are not going to want someone who is going to be out of the OR a week or more out of the month.
but, that being said, i do think PA is not the best place to be...i know there's a lot of crna schools...we have students from as far away as cali and miami. i just can't stomach the idea of having to teach them anything.
funny thing is that i've never regretted switching out of surgery to do anesthesia until i became an attending. anyway, thanks for the responses blade. i will keep donating to the pac in the hopes that something will happen.
 
also, cali has opted out, haven't they?...hope that lawsuit by the CAMA and CSA is effective.

CA has opted out, but, at least in Northern California, there is very little CRNA presence (with the exception of Kaiser). I work in the UCSF system and there are a handful at each of the sites (Parnassus, VA, The General), as well.
 
first off, i find being called a murse by a resident offensive considering that i'm a board certified attending with one fellowship already under my belt.

secondly, it isn't about money to the person who asked if 500,000 is worth it. its about being the most qualified and having the ability to be a true perioperative physician.

i'm totally disappointed by the responses on this forum for my first post.

I hear you.

What you didn't know about this place is that people here can do fem sciatic blocks in 2 minutes, thoracic epidurals on 99 y/o pts in the time you take to prep the skin, US guided central lines in the time you put your gown on (US used because they like technology, they never failed a central line before the US was introduced- same with the glidescope)...

It takes longer for you to fart than for them to turn over the room.

All of this making over 500k yr with 10wks vacation.

You've been warned.

Welcome to the forum.
 
CA has opted out but physician scope of practice is not changed. CRNAs still need M.D/DO/DDS supervision. We are not an independent practice state. See www.csahq.org for details.
 
glad to hear that about california...i only heard about the lawsuit jointly filed by the csa/cma. i didn't know the status. and from what i heard, the governor never consulted the state medical board which is required for opting out.
anyway, thanks for the people who posted real info and answers. been looking and have found some practices in my new state that are at least 50% own cases which is better than nothing i guess.
 
why is it so difficult to find physician only practices? i live in PA and there is one in the whole state!! i was working at a place where they have srna and we were required to let them do lines, etc. i decided i couldn't do that anymore because i don't want to teach them how to take my job away from me! but it is so hard to find anywhere on the east coast that uses doctors only.
so, i'm already cardiac trained and will be now pursuing critical care. feel like i need job security for the future......are we really going down the tubes? i'm only a year out and am depressed about the state of the profession.

1) If you're an attending I apologize for being presumptious. We have a ton of SRNA/CRNA trolls that troll this forum, and your initial post sounded awful trollish.

2) Why did it take you residency training and fellowship to realize the job opportunities available within your state?

3) I certainly believe a SRNA doing lines isn't optimal for patient care (experience, liability, etc.) but I'm not sure why you believe it's training them to take your job. I imagine a CT-trained anesthesiologist would believe there's much more that differentiates them from nurses.

4) Welcome to the forums. 🙂 I look forward to some great case discussion in the private forum. 🙂
 
i know that its not just teaching them lines etc that means anything...but my point is that why do i have to teach them at all? and believe me, i have realized in my supervision days what exactly differentiates us. even the ones who have been doing it a long time have no idea when it comes to complex physiology.
i guess it was just naivete that i didn't realize the situation in my home state. we just didn't have any (or extremely few) nurses where i trained so i i didn't realize the true extent of the problem until i was done.
anyway, in some ways, this extra year is an attempt at obtaining job security. although i wouldn't do it if i didn't want to have some involvement in the unit.
don't know what made me seem trollish, but i am def no nurse. i'm very active in my state pac, asa pac, asa grassroots, and have been contributing to the anesthesiologists who are running for office even though they are not in my state. so.......please also contribute to these fine causes!!
 
i know that its not just teaching them lines etc that means anything...but my point is that why do i have to teach them at all? and believe me, i have realized in my supervision days what exactly differentiates us. even the ones who have been doing it a long time have no idea when it comes to complex physiology.
i guess it was just naivete that i didn't realize the situation in my home state. we just didn't have any (or extremely few) nurses where i trained so i i didn't realize the true extent of the problem until i was done.
anyway, in some ways, this extra year is an attempt at obtaining job security. although i wouldn't do it if i didn't want to have some involvement in the unit.
don't know what made me seem trollish, but i am def no nurse. i'm very active in my state pac, asa pac, asa grassroots, and have been contributing to the anesthesiologists who are running for office even though they are not in my state. so.......please also contribute to these fine causes!!


You did sound trollish to me as well. I am allergic to murses so any inkling of them gets me going so I apologize for jumping down your throat. Some of us are rough with newcomers who may be a murse disguised as physician. We've had a ton.

With that said, there are several practices out west that are physician only and some that will let you do your own cases and avoid CRNA supervision even though they have CRNAs. If you are interested in CA I can point you to one that needs cardiac guys and has no CRNAs.
 
thanks proreal doc...i think it might be a little too far from family unfortunately...i'm going to get through this year of fellowship (can't believe i'm going to cut my salary by 80%!!) and then will likely end up in academics. i am more than happy to teach and train residents.
plus, like i said, most places in private world won't want to have someone who is out of the OR for 12-16 weeks out of the year.
i just sometimes can't believe that this has all been allowed to happen and that our specialty is in its current defensive position. i mean, who can even ENTERTAIN the idea that nurse training equals med school + residency +/- fellowship???
 
I hear you.

What you didn't know about this place is that people here can do fem sciatic blocks in 2 minutes, thoracic epidurals on 99 y/o pts in the time you take to prep the skin, US guided central lines in the time you put your gown on (US used because they like technology, they never failed a central line before the US was introduced- same with the glidescope)...

It takes longer for you to fart than for them to turn over the room.

All of this making over 500k yr with 10wks vacation.

You've been warned.

Welcome to the forum.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Hilarious. One of the many reasons I hardly post, just read and laugh. People here are not the most friendly or welcoming. But I doubt they are like that in real life. Just on the internet where you can hide behind a screen and think it's justified to be an ******* as it is anonymous.

Sorry OP, I for one think two fellowships is unnecessary, but it's all you. It's great though that you feel like you don't want to give your skill set away to people who are intent on taking our jobs. Just move man/woman. To a state that's not opted out. There are still about half that are left in the union. I for one don't want to supervise midlevels for a living either, especially CRNA's. I might be ok with AA's though. Oh well, that is one of the reason's I'm intent on doing a fellowship. Good luck.
 
why is it so difficult to find physician only practices? i live in PA and there is one in the whole state!! i was working at a place where they have srna and we were required to let them do lines, etc. i decided i couldn't do that anymore because i don't want to teach them how to take my job away from me! but it is so hard to find anywhere on the east coast that uses doctors only.
so, i'm already cardiac trained and will be now pursuing critical care. feel like i need job security for the future......are we really going down the tubes? i'm only a year out and am depressed about the state of the profession.

Welcome to the forum. I don't know where you are looking to relocate in PA, but I can give you the names of several individuals who work at Lancaster Regional Hospital. All MD. Cardiac, anesthesia run ICU, lot's of regional. 450k if I remember correctly. I personally know just about every provider and they are solid people and excellent anesthesiologists. They are not interested in CRNA's or the like.
They just hired a general/ICU buddy of mine from florida and I think they may be looking for one more. Riverside is another option. Solid group with a long history of providing services. Minimal CRNA's. Buy in is a bit steep though. Also 450k. Let me know if either of these interest you and I can point you in the right direction. Good luck. 🙂
 
thanks for all the advice and practice opportunities...we'll see what happens. i will definitely need some of these in a few months when i am reapplying for jobs.
lets see what the future holds. my latest disgust is with the health affairs article and also a recent article in the philadelphia inquirer about nurses calling themselves doctor.
 
thanks for all the advice and practice opportunities...we'll see what happens. i will definitely need some of these in a few months when i am reapplying for jobs.
lets see what the future holds. my latest disgust is with the health affairs article and also a recent article in the philadelphia inquirer about nurses calling themselves doctor.

Got a link partner? That's my neck of the woods....
 
the article was in this last sunday's inquirer...just go to their website and type in nurse doctor and it will come up. sickening...they totally slanted it to the nurses.
 
the article was in this last sunday's inquirer...just go to their website and type in nurse doctor and it will come up. sickening...they totally slanted it to the nurses.

just post the link dude. cant find it. thanks in advance
 
I hear you.

What you didn't know about this place is that people here can do fem sciatic blocks in 2 minutes, thoracic epidurals on 99 y/o pts in the time you take to prep the skin, US guided central lines in the time you put your gown on (US used because they like technology, they never failed a central line before the US was introduced- same with the glidescope)...

It takes longer for you to fart than for them to turn over the room.

All of this making over 500k yr with 10wks vacation.

You've been warned.

Welcome to the forum.

:laugh:
 
just post the link dude. cant find it. thanks in advance

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/100206614.html
Nurses who are doctors

More are earning the doctor of nursing practice degree.

By Stacey Burling
Inquirer Staff Writer
Sue Shirato is a nurse.
And a doctor.
But probably not the kind of doctor you think, which makes her introduction to patients at the Jefferson Heart Institute more complicated.
"I'm Dr. Shirato, but feel free to call me Sue," she tells patients. "I am Dr. Duffy's advanced-practice nurse."
Shirato, a nurse practitioner, just got her doctor of nursing practice degree at Thomas Jefferson University. Most nurse practitioners still have master's degrees, but nursing schools want the DNP to be the entry-level degree for advanced-practice nurses by 2015. Enrollment in DNP programs nationally jumped from 70 in 2002 to more than 5,000 last year.
Most newly graduating physical therapists now have doctorates, too. Pharmacists and psychologists already made that move. Audiologists, physician assistants, and occupational therapists can also get doctorates.
As nonphysicians with doctorates proliferate, the potential for confusion has grown, and physicians aren't happy about it. A 2008 survey by the American Medical Association found that 38 percent of patients believed that DNPs were medical doctors.
The AMA has produced model "truth in advertising" legislation that requires health professionals, including physicians, to wear badges that clearly spell out their credentials. Similar laws have passed in Oklahoma, Arizona, Florida, and Illinois and are under consideration in California and Pennsylvania.
James Goodyear, a Lansdale general surgeon and president of the Pennsylvania Medical Society, said health-care workers who are not physicians should immediately tell patients what they do.
"I am a physician. They are not," he said. "They trained for hundreds of hours. We trained for thousands of hours."
And, he said, physicians should still be in charge. "We think that those in the allied health fields that get a doctorate such as in nursing are a very, very important component of a physician-directed . . . team," he said.
People with doctorates in other fields said they generally don't want to call themselves doctors around patients, but they reserve the right to do so.
"There are some physicians who look at their title - doctor - as a protected title when it really isn't," said Kathleen Potempa, president of the American Association of Colleges of Nursing (AACN). "There are lots of people who have the entitlement to doctor now."
To make things more complicated, these new health-care doctorates are what are known as practice, professional, or applied doctorates - degrees meant to be put to work in the real world or used to climb a career ladder. They're not what most professors have: a Ph.D. Those are research-focused and tend to take longer - at least four years after the bachelor's degree - and require a dissertation. Academic snobs see a practice doctorate, which takes three years, as "Ph.D. light."
Medical doctors have a kind of practice doctorate, too. After college, they spend four years in medical school, and at least three years in residency to get them. In nursing and physical therapy, three-year doctoral programs are supplanting master's programs that took about 21/2 years.
Health-care leaders say the higher degrees address the growing complexity of care as the population ages and medicine moves to more scientifically proven treatments. It's getting impossible to cram everything that advanced-practice nurses and physical therapists need to know into a master's degree. There's also clearly a desire for greater respect.
"From a nursing perspective, I think that we should be on par education-wise, knowledge-wise and information-wise with our colleagues," said Beth Ann Swan, senior associate dean of academic affairs at Jefferson's School of Nursing. Its DNP program began in 2007.
Training programs for advanced-practice nurses - nurse practitioners, nurse midwives, and anesthetists, and for clinical specialists - have quickly embraced the DNP. Seventy-two percent of schools that train such nurses, who can safely perform many functions of physicians, either already offer DNPs or plan to do so. Widener University welcomed its first class in 2009. According to the AACN, Drexel University and the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey also have programs.
Not everyone is a fan of the trend, which some critics call "degree creep." Some vocal naysayers, including Afaf Meleis, dean of the University of Pennsylvania's nursing school, worry that it's a bad time to demand more training of the nurses best equipped to provide primary care. Health reform will soon flood the market with newly insured patients, and some believe there won't be enough primary-care doctors to tend to them. Fewer nurses may become nurse practitioners if they have to spend more time and money on school. So far, the doctorates have not translated to higher pay, but there is also a concern they could drive up costs when there will be intense downward pressure on spending.
Meleis and Kathleen Dracup, dean of nursing at the University of California, San Francisco, said the evidence showed that advanced-practice nurses already provide high-quality care.
"There is no proof that more than a master's degree is required to be an excellent practitioner," Dracup said.
Meleis also questioned why other schools had let their master's programs get so long. Penn nurses complete the material in 11/2 to 2 years, she said.
She worries that DNP programs will siphon off nurses who might have gotten Ph.D.s, a group that is much needed for teaching and research. Nurses have worked hard to prove to fellow professors that they can hold their own scientifically, she said, and DNPs will be "second-class citizens" in academia.
Nurses "finally gained a place at the table and equity at the table," Meleis said. "We finally have gotten it together and then we are rocking the boat and then not rocking it in a healthy way by creating the DNP."
AACN says Ph.D. enrollment is still growing slightly.
Nurses who completed Jefferson's DNP program said they specifically wanted to focus on patient care.
"If I'm taking care of you, you don't want me to have a Ph.D.," said Dolores Grosso, who got her DNP a year ago and who works with blood and bone-marrow transplant patients at Jefferson.
She said her coursework improved her problem-solving skills and taught her about statistics. She plans to do research driven by her experiences with patients.
She doesn't believe every nurse practitioner should have to get a doctorate, or that nurses should be able to go straight from college to doctoral programs.
She doesn't plan to call herself "doctor" around patients. "I'm happy with who I am," she said. "I don't feel the need to walk around and have people think I'm either a Ph.D. or a doctor."
Barbara Todd, who just got a DNP from Jefferson and is director of advanced-practice providers at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, said she believed some confusion was inevitable. First of all, patients don't really understand what a nurse practitioner does. "Are you practicing to be a nurse?" they ask. And they assume nurse practitioners are doctors even when they don't have doctorates.
Though she worries about how the trend toward a nursing doctorate will affect the thousands of master's-level nurses already in practice, she believes the extra training boosted her credibility with other professionals.
Shirato also said she was being taken more seriously. "I think I have a lot more autonomy now than I did before," she said, "and I think the physicians look at me differently than they did before."

Contact staff writer Stacey Burling at 215-854-4944 or [email protected].



Read more: http://www.philly.com/philly/business/100206614.html#ixzz0wmjL6zrC
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