so...discussion about creation, religion, etc.( respectful)

[wjs010]

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so i was having a discussion with a fanily member on the matter..my mom is christian, I'm not.

we were of course disagreeing along the way, but thats fine. However, she said one thing that really rustled my jimmies...like a troll almost. I was telling her the obvious, unbiased, fact that there are several million sediment deposits in the greats lakes, which is indicative of their age. Then I went on to say something along the lines of humans didn't live with dinosaurs , etc...and do you know what she answered? "yes they did, they were on the ark"

aside from facepalming x100, how would you respond to this. I tried and am speechless.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

no. these threads never get anywhere. just tell her "cool story bro" because you aren't going to change your mind and she isn't going to change your mind. and nobody is going to change anyone's mind on this forum. so before this turns into a s**t storm, I urge everyone to refrain from partaking because it doesn't end well. nothing against you OP, I have just been here long enough to know that it is going to get tons of responses, all of which attacking other parts of peoples arguments and everyone gets pissed off and it gets closed because people can't discuss.

DON'T DO IT. RESIST!

 

[chiddler]

no. these threads never get anywhere. just tell her "cool story bro" because you aren't going to change your mind and she isn't going to change your mind. and nobody is going to change anyone's mind on this forum. so before this turns into a s**t storm, I urge everyone to refrain from partaking because it doesn't end well. nothing against you OP, I have just been here long enough to know that it is going to get tons of responses, all of which attacking other parts of peoples arguments and everyone gets pissed off and it gets closed because people can't discuss.

DON'T DO IT. RESIST!

👍

sorry friend but i don't think this is the appropriate forum to ask for such advice.

 

[abolt18]

I would not agree with your mother, and I would not agree with you, but when it comes down to it, many things are better left alone. It's not worth the battle. On the other hand, I wonder if Noah wore a necklace with the velociraptor claw on it. That would be cool. I would do that.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

You can't argue with faith.

 

[wjs010]

fair enough...consider it closed.

 

[NurWollen]

I would not agree with your mother, and I would not agree with you, but when it comes down to it, many things are better left alone. It's not worth the battle. On the other hand, I wonder if Noah wore a necklace with the velociraptor claw on it. That would be cool. I would do that.

That is quite possibly the best statement ever to come from one of these threads.

 

[Ost3oclast]

that is quite possibly the best statement ever to come from one of these threads.

+1

 

[gc91]

DON'T DO IT. RESIST!

I can't, I'm studying religion as part of my degree, I'm sorry.

There is no biblical evidence for dinosaurs on the ark. None. I'm assuming your mother is an evangelical christian, and therefore her only authority is sola scriptora. Therefore, next time it gets brought up demand scriptural evidence. And also ask her where light came from if Genesis is literal, since we know all light in the universe comes from stars, but they weren't created until after God created light and separated it from the darkness. And then ask her if she believes the Sun is younger then the Earth, and if the Sun goes around the Earth. If she says the Earth goes around the Sun, ask her how God stopped the Sun in the sky when Joshua was battling the Amarites at Jericho.

I'm done, I promise.

 

[QualityProcess]

You can't argue with faith.

This is true, but you can argue when the faithful present scientific inaccuracies as truth.

I very rarely have issues with religions themselves, but MANY "religious" organizations carry extensive histories of blatant and systematic human rights violations, and individuals within those groups deliberately deceive and oppress vulnerable communities (read: low income) for the purpose of gaining influence and power.

 

[Mosonik]

This is true, but you can argue when the faithful present scientific inaccuracies as truth.

I very rarely have issues with religions themselves, but MANY "religious" organizations carry extensive histories of blatant and systematic human rights violations, and individuals within those groups deliberately deceive and oppress vulnerable communities (read: low income) for the purpose of gaining influence and power.

and the religious bashing has commenced...

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

I can't, I'm studying religion as part of my degree, I'm sorry.

There is no biblical evidence for dinosaurs on the ark. None. I'm assuming your mother is an evangelical christian, and therefore her only authority is sola scriptora. Therefore, next time it gets brought up demand scriptural evidence. And also ask her where light came from if Genesis is literal, since we know all light in the universe comes from stars, but they weren't created until after God created light and separated it from the darkness. And then ask her if she believes the Sun is younger then the Earth, and if the Sun goes around the Earth. If she says the Earth goes around the Sun, ask her how God stopped the Sun in the sky when Joshua was battling the Amarites at Jericho.

I'm done, I promise.

I wish high schools and middle schools around the nation would include critical analysis of philosophy and theology in their required curriculum. People would actually learn about what they believe as opposed to their statistically non-existent conceptualizations of their religion (on Average Christians can only answer 40% of basic Christian theology questions as opposed to Atheists or Jews who scored 82% and 72% Respectfully).

 

[zoner]

tell her that Noah's story about the flood is one of the oldest story in the world and from cultures that dates back way before Jewish culture. The oldest one is actually from Veda ancient Indian culture where it was a big fish god that told the main character to build a big ship and the same rest of the story.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

All you people reading this remember that FrkyBgStok can read the friggin future. Exactly how I said it would happen. I am Nostradamus.

 

[JaBoomDay]

Topics to always avoid if you want to keep peace:
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. How to raise children
4. Mac vs. PC

 

[QualityProcess]

I wish high schools and middle schools around the nation would include critical analysis of philosophy and theology in their required curriculum. People would actually learn about what they believe as opposed to their statistically non-existent conceptualizations of their religion (on Average Christians can only answer 40% of basic Christian theology questions as opposed to Atheists or Jews who scored 82% and 72% Respectfully).

LOL analysis in schools. Good one.

 

[abolt18]

Topics to always avoid if you want to keep peace:
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. How to raise children
4. Mac vs. PC

Mac>PC IMO but they're grossly overpriced. I'll probably stick with PC at least until I have a Job that pays more than $14 an hour lol.

BUT I'll ALWAYS take Android over Apple for phones/tablets!

 

[JaBoomDay]

Mac>PC IMO but they're grossly overpriced. I'll probably stick with PC at least until I have a Job that pays more than $14 an hour lol.

BUT I'll ALWAYS take Android over Apple for phones/tablets!

Oh now you've done it. This will get uglier than the religion debate.

 

[rzoo14]

Topics to always avoid if you want to keep peace:
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. How to raise children
4. Mac vs. PC

And on SDN, DO vs MD.

I wish high schools and middle schools around the nation would include critical analysis of philosophy and theology in their required curriculum. People would actually learn about what they believe as opposed to their statistically non-existent conceptualizations of their religion (on Average Christians can only answer 40% of basic Christian theology questions as opposed to Atheists or Jews who scored 82% and 72% Respectfully).

Richard Dawkins proposed a similar concept in his "Is Science a Religion?" speech. The way he proposed it, he wanted to include science in religious education courses for kids. That makes absolutely no sense. I'm all for critical thinking but someone that young in elementary/middle school doesn't know what's going on in the world. And you want to let this kid answer questions about life and existence? Speaking from personal experience, as we grow older and gain some common sense, we tend to make our own opinion based on facts that we've gathered. That's the best type of learning. A lot better than someone trying to teach a middle schooler about philosophy and religion.

Just my .02 cents. My general philosophy is live and let live. I'm not one to confront people on their personal beliefs and ideals.

 

[HalfListic]

Mac>PC IMO but they're grossly overpriced. I'll probably stick with PC at least until I have a Job that pays more than $14 an hour lol.

BUT I'll ALWAYS take Android over Apple for phones/tablets!

Topics to always avoid if you want to keep peace:
1. Religion
2. Politics
3. How to raise children
4. Mac vs. PC

Ill take this one.

If your children don't watch Doc McStuffins, you're doing it wrong.

 

[JaBoomDay]

And on SDN, DO vs MD.

OH I forgot one!

 

[gc91]

I wish high schools and middle schools around the nation would include critical analysis of philosophy and theology in their required curriculum. People would actually learn about what they believe as opposed to their statistically non-existent conceptualizations of their religion (on Average Christians can only answer 40% of basic Christian theology questions as opposed to Atheists or Jews who scored 82% and 72% Respectfully).

People have somehow lost the ability to think critically about their own beliefs, which I don't understand. Blind adherence to anything is still blindness, and it breeds ignorance, which breeds intolerance, which breeds a dangerous form of stupidity that impacts everyone. Granted, I'm probably bitter because my father sees my BS in Biology as a joke.

 

[rzoo14]

People have somehow lost the ability to think critically about their own beliefs, which I don't understand. Blind adherence to anything is still blindness, and it breeds ignorance, which breeds intolerance, which breeds a dangerous form of stupidity that impacts everyone. Granted, I'm probably bitter because my father sees my BS in Biology as a joke.

Reminds me of this quote by Daniel Kahneman. "We're blind to our blindness. We have very little idea of how little we know. We're not designed to know how little we know."

 

[wjs010]

wow i see a lot of replies. thanks folks. to the people who want to keep "peace" on this forum...i disagree..stop with the political correctness. Anybody should be able to have a rational discussion here, no matter the topic.

 

[abolt18]

wow i see a lot of replies. thanks folks. to the people who want to keep "peace" on this forum...i disagree..stop with the political correctness. Anybody should be able to have a rational discussion here, no matter the topic.

I think that those inviting peace on this are not necessarily trying to remain "politically correct" so much as hoping the conversation ends before people get on the thread that WON'T have a "rational discussion."

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

And on SDN, DO vs MD.



Richard Dawkins proposed a similar concept in his "Is Science a Religion?" speech. The way he proposed it, he wanted to include science in religious education courses for kids. That makes absolutely no sense. I'm all for critical thinking but someone that young in elementary/middle school doesn't know what's going on in the world. And you want to let this kid answer questions about life and existence? Speaking from personal experience, as we grow older and gain some common sense, we tend to make our own opinion based on facts that we've gathered. That's the best type of learning. A lot better than someone trying to teach a middle schooler about philosophy and religion.

Just my .02 cents. My general philosophy is live and let live. I'm not one to confront people on their personal beliefs and ideals.

No, I think that people need to understand and appreciate their culture and relevant figures in the theoretical structuring of that culture. I think that children should be taught basic fundamental principles such as those of Aristotle, Socrates, etc. from an early age to foster the formation of logic and critical thinking skills and understanding the world.
So no, your comment is unrelated. It's worth examining and studying the biblical cannon to understand Western culture.

 

[wjs010]

I think that those inviting peace on this are not necessarily trying to remain "politically correct" so much as hoping the conversation ends before people get on the thread that WON'T have a "rational discussion."

We don't care about those people. Being politically correct for the sake of avoidingthose types of people is still being PC. So therefore we should still be able to have any discussion. Those who would get offended should either grow a pair or never enter threads on topics that offend them. However, I do think we should respect ppl. But being PC.. No. Look what happened to London when it became super PC.. Islamic extremists violently protesting in streets. Hence the temper trap song " London's burning"

 

[FrkyBgStok]

I can't, I'm studying religion as part of my degree, I'm sorry.

There is no biblical evidence for dinosaurs on the ark. None. I'm assuming your mother is an evangelical christian, and therefore her only authority is sola scriptora. Therefore, next time it gets brought up demand scriptural evidence. And also ask her where light came from if Genesis is literal, since we know all light in the universe comes from stars, but they weren't created until after God created light and separated it from the darkness. And then ask her if she believes the Sun is younger then the Earth, and if the Sun goes around the Earth. If she says the Earth goes around the Sun, ask her how God stopped the Sun in the sky when Joshua was battling the Amarites at Jericho.

I'm done, I promise.

alright cool. I can let it pass.

People have somehow lost the ability to think critically about their own beliefs, which I don't understand. Blind adherence to anything is still blindness, and it breeds ignorance, which breeds intolerance, which breeds a dangerous form of stupidity that impacts everyone. Granted, I'm probably bitter because my father sees my BS in Biology as a joke.

YOU LIAR!

 

[deleted103644]

This should probably be moved to SPF.

Then I can feel free to bash creationists and osteopaths alike without fear of repercussions...

 

[HM3]

Is your mom single?

 

[deleted103644]

Is your mom single?

I'd wager she doesn't believe in birth control...

 

[HM3]

I'd wager she doesn't believe in birth control...

That's ok because I believe in abortion. 🙂

That being said I'm not really down for this pro-*choice*. Why should the woman be the only one to decide this? If the child is born, isn't the man FORCED by our society to cater to it?

 

[deleted103644]

That's ok because I believe in abortion. 🙂

Yeah, but she doesn't v

 

[HM3]

Yeah, but she doesn't v

I think the father deserves a say in the matter.

 

[ShabNasty]

inb4 Godwin's law.

 

[zoner]

Is your mom single?

Lol.... Whats spf?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

 

[QualityProcess]

I think the father deserves a say in the matter.

Sure he does, he can choose to rubber up.

The life of a fetus does not physiologically depend on the father. The argument that he deserves a say is purely based on emotion and is a social construction. Until the fetus obtains some (arbitrary, and subject to debate) level of person-hood, it is not a person, it is a rapidly growing part of the mother's body.

 

[rzoo14]

Sure he does, he can choose to rubber up.

The life of a fetus does not physiologically depend on the father. The argument that he deserves a say is purely based on emotion and is a social construction. Until the fetus obtains some (arbitrary, and subject to debate) level of person-hood, it is not a person, it is a rapidly growing part of the mother's body.

+1. The father can have a say in the matter but the final decision should be the mother's. She's the one who's investing a lot more time, energy, and effort caring for the young.

 

[HalfListic]

Sure he does, he can choose to rubber up.

The life of a fetus does not physiologically depend on the father. The argument that he deserves a say is purely based on emotion and is a social construction. Until the fetus obtains some (arbitrary, and subject to debate) level of person-hood, it is not a person, it is a rapidly growing part of the mother's body.

Not to support one side of this argument or the other, since I don't think its really up for debate at the moment, but I don't think thats the real reason for the paternal choice. As you realize, "level of person-hood" as you put it, is an arbitrary, or at least relative, point in time. Until we can all agree on the moment of life, this wont settle anything

Another side to the argument that is somewhat objective could be that if the father would have financial responsibility after birth, he should have some say about the birth.


If you think about though, from a purely medical standpoint, elective abortion (when there is no health issues for mother/child or special circumstances i.e. rape, incest) is a pretty adverse thing for a physician to perform.

You are ending a life, or at minimum a potentiality of life. Forget religion and economics, as a doctor, it would be tough for me to say, ok we have a nice little human growing here...lets go ahead and arrest its biological functioning. As far as medicine is concerned, in those cases, we would be doing harm.


(this may not be a popular view...but at least its correct 😀 )

 

[MFMaspirant]

Ill take this one.

If your children don't watch Doc McStuffins, you're doing it wrong.

Wrong wrong wrong. They need to be watching Octonauts.

 

[HalfListic]

Wrong wrong wrong. They need to be watching Octonauts.

haha...ok, they can split their time. But only because of the accents.

 

[deleted103644]

Not to support one side of this argument or the other, since I don't think its really up for debate at the moment, but I don't think thats the real reason for the paternal choice. As you realize, "level of person-hood" as you put it, is an arbitrary, or at least relative, point in time. Until we can all agree on the moment of life, this wont settle anything

Another side to the argument that is somewhat objective could be that if the father would have financial responsibility after birth, he should have some say about the birth.


If you think about though, from a purely medical standpoint, elective abortion (when there is no health issues for mother/child or special circumstances i.e. rape, incest) is a pretty adverse thing for a physician to perform.

You are ending a life, or at minimum a potentiality of life. Forget religion and economics, as a doctor, it would be tough for me to say, ok we have a nice little human growing here...lets go ahead and arrest its biological functioning. As far as medicine is concerned, in those cases, we would be doing harm.


(this may not be a popular view...but at least its correct 😀 )

I'm ending millions of potential lives pretty much on a daily basis. I would bet you do too, maybe a little less depending on your sexual appetite and sperm count.

Yet another place where you are horribly misguided, halfling.

 

[zoner]

I'm ending millions of potential lives pretty much on a daily basis. I would bet you do too, maybe a little less depending on your sexual appetite and sperm count.

Yet another place where you are horribly misguided, halfling.

Lol

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

 

[gc91]

YOU LIAR!

Nah, lying is a sin 😉

 

[JaBoomDay]

 

[rzoo14]

Nah, lying is a sin 😉

Haha, I see what you did there.

 

[HalfListic]

I'm ending millions of potential lives pretty much on a daily basis. I would bet you do too, maybe a little less depending on your sexual appetite and sperm count.

Yet another place where you are horribly misguided, halfling.

Hey, JD is back?!!

How's "residency" treating you? 😉

Now, as for being misguided, lets look at this. You are comparing sperm to an embryo. You seem to think that sperm somehow could swim their way out of your parents basement apartment, find an egg to fertilize and make-a the baby?

I hate to break it to you...sperm is different than a developing embryo, inside a uterus, hooked up to some good ok placenta.



But I like your word, misguided...I think I'll let you hold on to it.

 

[zoner]

I don't know. I think it's pretty sinful to kill sperms that way. After all they can move on their own in their limited ways. So masturbation is just wrong. Thay kind of bodily function wasn't meant to be used "that" was imho

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

 

[HalfListic]

I don't know. I think it's pretty sinful to kill sperms that way. After all they can move on their own in their limited ways. So masturbation is just wrong. Thay kind of bodily function wasn't meant to be used "that" was imho

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using SDN Mobile

Uh, great. Thank for the info...but, we are chatting about medical ethics, not religious morals.

 

[JaBoomDay]

HAHA this thread is so entertaining.