So, how do exams and study time work for MS3/MS4?

[mbe36]

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I am curious to see how testing and studying occur during these years due to the lack of classroom time.

Thanks!!!

 

[TexasPhysician]

MSIII
Usually a few hours of lecture/week protected from clinic duties.
You take the standardized NBME exam at the end of each block.
Advise: Study as often as possible on your own.

MSIV
Only 1 block my entire year has an exam.
Study what you WANT to learn.
Grades are highly subjective.
More relaxing of a year.

 

[Law2Doc]

MSIII
Usually a few hours of lecture/week protected from clinic duties.
You take the standardized NBME exam at the end of each block.
Advise: Study as often as possible on your own.

MSIV
Only 1 block my entire year has an exam.
Study what you WANT to learn.
Grades are highly subjective.
More relaxing of a year.

Agree with this -- you have a shelf exam after every rotation in 3rd year. Most people work their way through a few study guides (blueprints, casefiles, FA etc) in their "spare" time. You also have a few hours of didactics/lecture per week (in the form of morning reports, or lunch lectures) but they tend not to be particularly targeted toward the shelf. So basically you learn what you need to day to day reading up on your patients and preparing for pimp questions, and then work your way through the study guides on your own -- reading whenever you can. As mentioned, the grading is largely subjective, and the shelf itself may count for as little as 20-30% of your grade, so impressing the attendings is really the make or break part of your grade. This is very hard for many med students to get used to, since up to this point most of your grades have been test based. It's a different world, and more like real life.

In 4th year you may have few to no actual rotation related tests, but will generally be taking the two parts of Step II, which you have to find a time to study for.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Agree with this -- you have a shelf exam after every rotation in 3rd year. Most people work their way through a few study guides (blueprints, casefiles, FA etc) in their "spare" time. You also have a few hours of didactics/lecture per week (in the form of morning reports, or lunch lectures) but they tend not to be particularly targeted toward the shelf. So basically you learn what you need to day to day reading up on your patients and preparing for pimp questions, and then work your way through the study guides on your own -- reading whenever you can. As mentioned, the grading is largely subjective, and the shelf itself may count for as little as 20-30% of your grade, so impressing the attendings is really the make or break part of your grade. This is very hard for many med students to get used to, since up to this point most of your grades have been test based. It's a different world, and more like real life.

In 4th year you may have few to no actual rotation related tests, but will generally be taking the two parts of Step II, which you have to find a time to study for.

Lucky. Our shelf exams count for basically 100% of our grade. Good in that we don't have to impress attendings as much, but bad in that good evals don't really effect our grade at all.

 

[mbe36]

So, how difficult is it to find self-study time?

You two are both people with view-points I have great respect for. Thanks for your time and your posts!

 

[TexasPhysician]

Really depends on the rotation. Advise: Always keep a book in your white coat for downtime.

 

[Law2Doc]

Lucky. Our shelf exams count for basically 100% of our grade. Good in that we don't have to impress attendings as much, but bad in that good evals don't really effect our grade at all.

This is actually pretty unusual -- based on another thread a while back I think the average was more like 30% weight put on these tests. But sometimes that ended up being equivalent 100% in cases where everybody was perceived as pretty similar in terms of subjective performance so the real way that the Honors students were separated from the High Pass students was who did better on the shelf.

But yeah, for the readers of this thread, expect to be mostly graded subjectively on rotations, unless you go to TP's med school. Which is going to be a very hard thing to deal with because you will often feel like you are doing things the same as other people, but they are loved and you are not, or vice versa. It's a real shocker when you get to the point where you are evaluated on things other than tests, since as a premed you have basically spent your whole life being judged objectively. But real life is subjective, so it's actually not so bad to get used to being judged this way.

 

[Law2Doc]

So, how difficult is it to find self-study time?

You two are both people with view-points I have great respect for. Thanks for your time and your posts!

You find the time when you can -- definitely agree with TP's suggestion to always carry reading material. If you are on an overnight shift and nothing happens for a few hours you read a few chapters. If you are standing in the hall waiting for an attending to write his notes during rounds, you read a few pages. And when you get home at dinner time, plan to devote much of the evening studying as the shelf approaches. Basically you will have rotations where you are working reasonable hours and have plenty of time to study, and other rotations where you are trying to shoehorn studying in. You will learn what it's like to work an 80+ hour week and then try to squeeze in studying on top of that when you get home (eg sugery, in-patient IM, OB). In other rotations (eg psych, ambulatory IM), it really won't be an issue -- you do your 8-4 day and have time to work out, eat and hit the books and maybe still have time to watch some TV.

 

[mbe36]

Where do M3/M4's stay during an away rotation?

Where? How do you pay for it?

Thanks👍
I did not want to waste space with a new thread.

 

[Law2Doc]

Where do M3/M4's stay during an away rotation?

Where? How do you pay for it?

Thanks👍
I did not want to waste space with a new thread.

Most of the time the schools give you leads on short-term apartments, which you are on the hook for yourself, and there will be application fees for applying to aways. Nothing in life or med school is free.