So if Dentistry is Saturated..what else?!

[ajj70]

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That school should be boycotted. Who is teaching them? Why are dentists jeopardizing the profession?

This is a program in response to the rural areas in the upper midwest and the lack of dental care in the area....you know, the area where dentists can make a pretty handsome living but no one whats to move to

 

[allantois]

This is a program in response to the rural areas in the upper midwest and the lack of dental care in the area....you know, the area where dentists can make a pretty handsome living but no one whats to move to

But midlevels are going to want to move to the boonies? Schools raising their tuition is the biggest incentive for people to go rural.

 

[ajj70]

But midlevels are going to want to move to the boonies? Schools raising their tuition is the biggest incentive for people to go rural.

Given that the school is at the University of Minnesota and many of the potential students are from the upper midwest already, yes, there is a high likelihood that they will be willing to live in the upper midwest.

 

[Firm]

PAs seem to be crushing it without the time spent in med school.

 

[Firm]

Nope. They can perform dental surgery like a regular dentist.

If this ever happens you might as well just quite dental school.

 

[EasTexan]

How do dental therapists solve the access to care issue? If a dentist is unwilling to live and practice in these underserved areas, why would a therapist? Also, how would the work they do be any more affordable than what a dentist does? Do therapists magically have no overhead? Or is it just an attempt to cure the issue by shear number of health care providers?

 

[Advance]

How do dental therapists solve the access to care issue? If a dentist is unwilling to live and practice in these underserved areas, why would a therapist? Also, how would the work they do be any more affordable than what a dentist does? Do therapists magically have no overhead? Or is it just an attempt to cure the issue by shear number of health care providers?

All very valid questions.

 

[Cello]

Let them run wild. When they are sued (which the inevitably will be), then the schools (which can be sued for training incompetent clinicians), certification agencies, and local governments can work out the mess.

 

[Advance]

Let them run wild. When they are sued (which the inevitably will be), then the schools (which can be sued for training incompetent clinicians), certification agencies, and local governments can work out the mess.

I'd feel bad for the patients though 🙁

 

[Firm]

How do dental therapists solve the access to care issue? If a dentist is unwilling to live and practice in these underserved areas, why would a therapist? Also, how would the work they do be any more affordable than what a dentist does? Do therapists magically have no overhead? Or is it just an attempt to cure the issue by shear number of health care providers?

Exactly. Makes labor cheaper for corporations. Legally in 46 states corporations can't own dental practices but they do. This is what's killing dentistry.

 

[longhornpride]

hmm... what's cheaper? A corporate company employing 25 dentists paying them 120k each.... or a corporate company employing 20 therapists at 70k each with 5 supervising dentists. I wonder where this is heading...

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

hmm... what's cheaper? A corporate company employing 25 dentists paying them 120k each.... or a corporate company employing 20 therapists at 70k each with 5 supervising dentists. I wonder where this is heading...

Unfortunately, medicine is already there with the influx of midlevels and trend towards hospital employment (rather than private practice).

 

[Advance]

Unfortunately, medicine is already there with the influx of midlevels and trend towards hospital employment (rather than private practice).

Is this a problem with all medical specialties? Or does it affect certain ones?

 

[allantois]

Is this a problem with all medical specialties? Or does it affect certain ones?

It's unbelievable how hospitals and corporations took over all medicial specialties. Old and greedy docs sold out their practices along with their professions.

Merrit Hawkins does great analysis of the healthcare field every year:

http://www.merritthawkins.com/uploa...s/Surveys/2014_MerrittHawkins_FYMR_Survey.pdf

"Only 2% of residents want a solo practice"

 

[strep mutans]

Exactly. Makes labor cheaper for corporations. Legally in 46 states corporations can't own dental practices but they do. This is what's killing dentistry.

What loopholes are they using to do this? Why is this being accepted, and not fought by the ADA, either successfully or at all?

 

[Advance]

It's unbelievable how hospitals and corporations took over all medicial specialties. Old and greedy docs sold out their practices along with their professions.

Merrit Hawkins does great analysis of the healthcare field every year:

http://www.merritthawkins.com/uploa...s/Surveys/2014_MerrittHawkins_FYMR_Survey.pdf

"Only 2% of residents want a solo practice"

I wonder why this is? Does the medical school curriculum have courses designed to prepare future physicians to open their own practices?
I know many if not all dental schools do.

 

[Firm]

This is a program in response to the rural areas in the upper midwest and the lack of dental care in the area....you know, the area where dentists can make a pretty handsome living but no one whats to move to

Because they can't make a handsome living because nobody has any money.

 

[ajj70]

Because they can't make a handsome living because nobody has any money.

Really, interesting...not true everywhere though....

 

[sl2obel2ts]

No, stick w/ dentistry.

https://www.sofi.com/roed-infograph...EMAIL_DOTMAILER&dm_i=2G1P,HWTB,35HZ20,15Y3J,1

 

[Firm]

What loopholes are they using to do this? Why is this being accepted, and not fought by the ADA, either successfully or at all?

The ADA is weak and gets money from the same corporations. They use a loophole called a Dental Service Organization (DSO). A dentist is technically the owner but the DSO (corporation) gets a "management" fee to run the practice(s) which is nearly 100% of the collections. The state boards can only regulate dentists not the corporations, so when there is a problem the dentist gets fine or loses his/her license while the corporation keep rolling and finds a new sucker dentist.

 

[Firm]

Really, interesting...not true everywhere though....

If there is a place to make money somebody will go there.

 

[TaroBubbleTea]

I wonder why this is? Does the medical school curriculum have courses designed to prepare future physicians to open their own practices?
I know many if not all dental schools do.

My medical school doesn't formally offer anything like that in the curriculum. There may be talks or seminars offered sporadically, but nothing officially in the curriculum.

On the topic of midlevels...It's kind of sad the direction medicine is headed. I went to a lunch talk yesterday about emergency medicine and a PA student asked about the role of midlevels in presenter's group. The doc outwardly admitted that going the PA route offers many positives of being a doc without many of the negatives. And then he proceeded to give her his business card and ask for her resume.

I guess, in the end, its us med students who are spending the prime of our lives training for 7+ years being played the fools.

At least it does not seem dentistry is close to this point yet.

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

The ADA is weak and gets money from the same corporations. They use a loophole called a Dental Service Organization (DSO). A dentist is technically the owner but the DSO (corporation) gets a "management" fee to run the practice(s) which is nearly 100% of the collections. The state boards can only regulate dentists not the corporations, so when there is a problem the dentist gets fine or loses his/her license while the corporation keep rolling and finds a new sucker dentist.

Wow. So this is just like what large hospital systems do to MDs. What about what happened in North Carolina, which supposedly banned corporations? Did the corporations find a loophole through that one as well?

 

[Advance]

My medical school doesn't formally offer anything like that in the curriculum. There may be talks or seminars offered sporadically, but nothing officially in the curriculum.

On the topic of midlevels...It's kind of sad the direction medicine is headed. I went to a lunch talk yesterday about emergency medicine and a PA student asked about the role of midlevels in presenter's group. The doc outwardly admitted that going the PA route offers many positives of being a doc without many of the negatives. And then he proceeded to give her his business card and ask for her resume.

I guess, in the end, its us med students who are spending the prime of our lives training for 7+ years being played the fools.

At least it does not seem dentistry is close to this point yet.

Yeah this change seems inevitable unfortunately.
🙁

 

[Firm]

Wow. So this is just like what large hospital systems do to MDs. What about what happened in North Carolina, which supposedly banned corporations? Did the corporations find a loophole through that one as well?

It looks like 2 years later it is still pending. Most of dentistry's supply/demand problems would be solved it the laws in place were actually enforced.

 

[Incis0r]

Guys, just something interesting I found.

It is often said that 2007-2008 and even now are golden years for dentists who are currently practicing.
Well, what I did was I went back to 2001-2005 and looked for threads about saturation in dentistry, and I found some with the EXACT SAME CONCERNS being discussed today:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/future-of-dentistry-and-specialties.211282/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/dental-shortage-where.97148/

So, what's the point of this? Well, if you go back, you'll see the same concerns that were brought up here had been brought up when the current generation of dentists were in dental school....and they are doing just fine.

Conclusion: Be wise with the debt, work hard, work smart, and don't give in to hysteria and panic, and things will be all right.

 

[Screwtape]

Guys, just something interesting I found.

It is often said that 2007-2008 and even now are golden years for dentists who are currently practicing.
Well, what I did was I went back to 2001-2005 and looked for threads about saturation in dentistry, and I found some with the EXACT SAME CONCERNS being discussed today:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/future-of-dentistry-and-specialties.211282/

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/dental-shortage-where.97148/

So, what's the point of this? Well, if you go back, you'll see the same concerns that were brought up here had been brought up when the current generation of dentists were in dental school....and they are doing just fine.

Conclusion: Be wise with the debt, work hard, work smart, and don't give in to hysteria and panic, and things will be all right.

Professional forums inherently have a negative bias. You usually don't go online to post a neutral stance or a positive one. People often come here to vent. This may be naive but i always think about it like this: there are 90ish people in my class. There is no way all 90 people are going to be happy and very successful in dentistry for a plethora of reasons. And there are definitely some people that I can see doing fine, but still whining. They do that every day at school lol. You determine your own destiny, there are many opportunities in dentistry but it definitely isn't served on a silver platter, like it may have been once before.