So, I'm undecided ...

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glade

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What's worse:

1) Working in a place that's totally and heinously white trash or ghetto where you will make bank but it'll be like your mansion surrounded by double-wide trailers or cockroach-infested tenements. We'll call this "the Midwest."

OR

2) Working in a place that's ridiculously wealthy where you make an "average" medical salary, but that translates to you being poor relative to everyone else around you. Let's call this "the Coasts."

Frickin' depressing these days. 👎
 
I think the ghetto/barrio/appalacia is worse.
you have to send your kids to school with those people and you can't completely avoid them by punching out to private schools. If you aren't married you don't want to be dating tweekers, hill billy chicks, or gangstresses.

you want a place that you can do fun things in and out doors. professional sports, arts, nice restaurants. you want to live in a scenic place that doesn't look like one giant field or pile of dirt.

I voted to make less money and live in Northern Ca rather than look forward all year to the corn roast festival, rattle snake roundup, or promming with the swine.
 
Except there are plenty of nice Midwestern areas where you'd be living among upper middle class folks (e.g. lawyers, physicians, pharmacists, engineers, etc) where cost of living is relatively cheap AND you're making bank. It's the best of both worlds.
 
The Midwest, because you can buy enough land that the trailers are pretty far away. On the coasts, the snooty neighbors will be looking right through your window and laughing as you drink some cheap wine like Dom Perignon.
 
Except there are plenty of nice Midwestern areas where you'd be living among upper middle class folks (e.g. lawyers, physicians, pharmacists, engineers, etc) where cost of living is relatively cheap AND you're making bank. It's the best of both worlds.
Point me toward some?
 
There aren't any. The jobs around Midwestern cities you'd be willing to live in (i.e., Chicago, end of list) are probably the same as you get on the coasts.

By the way, I don't know if this makes me snooty, but isn't Dom Perignon a champagne and not a wine? :meanie:

I dunno, I wouldn't mind living in a small town, but seriously, I looked at some of these places and it's like the freakin' town of Mayberry. It's like your house is next to a grain silo or something. On the plus side, you know there wouldn't be the douchebag type of patients who are like "I looked this up on the Internet and it says my fibromyalgia is the cause ...can I have more Percocet??"
 
Point me toward some?

Any city w/ a population >500K and a decent academic medical center will have nice residential areas. It will be missing aspects of larger cities (ie what NY or LA might have to offer), but you certainly won't be the only educated person/high earning member of your community of hillbillies, as glade would have you believe.

I've never cared much for huge cities, so maybe my definition of a nice place to live differs from yours.
 
Being an Okie, I'm rather fond of the Midwest, but I can see how it would be a complete shock to the system for someone from the coast or whatever fancy place makes the Midwest seem so awful. I grew up in the suburbs, but I've become pretty fond of rural OK too. The only concern living in a rural town (in any state) is the poor quality of the rural education system. I'd prefer if my future kid(s) were able to attend schools with up to date technology, books, and money to spend on school extracurricular activities (sports, arts, whatev).
 
Umm, living in a large city and the midwest aren't mutually exclusive. I live in the 4th largest city in the country and I can promise that real estate is much cheaper than the coasts. There aren't any trailers either.
 
See, I'm sort of envious of your being from Oklahoma in a weird way. Like, I don't mean this as an insult or a backhanded compliment, but it'll come out like that. That basically means you can live anywhere, doesn't it? Like, say you're from Montana or Alabama. Then even if you can't stand large cities, you can live in like 95% of the country. If you come from a large city, you get like ONE place you can live in most states (or even zero, I'm looking at you, Wisconsin, Iowa, Idaho, etc.).

I was watching the Alabama-Arkansas game last week and they said the QB came from Texarkana. Seriously, the first thing that popped into my head was "that lucky SOB." If I came from Texarkana, I'd be making out like a bandit right about now. I'd just be like "I'm going back home to Texarkana, see ya, suckas!" and then start playing my harmonica.
 
Umm, living in a large city and the midwest aren't mutually exclusive. I live in the 4th largest city in the country and I can promise that real estate is much cheaper than the coasts. There aren't any trailers either.

Chicago, right? Like I said, Chicago is the only place most East/West Coast people would live in the Midwest. And the real estate isn't THAT much cheaper. Actually, I hear Chicago is sort of expensive to live in, isn't it?
 
Any city w/ a population >500K and a decent academic medical center will have nice residential areas. It will be missing aspects of larger cities (ie what NY or LA might have to offer), but you certainly won't be the only educated person/high earning member of your community of hillbillies, as glade would have you believe.

Hey, I'm not pro-NY or -LA by any means. Basically I consider residents of NY and LA to be inbred losers who think they're cosmopolitan when in fact they're just insecure idiots. And I'm not like "ooo, this place sucks, there's no international ballet for me to watch on Saturday mornings." I'm just saying that a lot of places in the Midwest are rural.
 
Chicago, right? Like I said, Chicago is the only place most East/West Coast people would live in the Midwest. And the real estate isn't THAT much cheaper. Actually, I hear Chicago is sort of expensive to live in, isn't it?

I don't live in Chicago. Maybe Midwest isn't the most accurate description. Let's say the South.
 
Dude, what, are you going to make me google for "fourth largest city in the U.S."? Like if you tell me what city you live in, I'm going to start driving there and bust through your door while you're sleeping or something? Sheesh.

Actually, that sounds like something I might do.
 
Maybe Midwest isn't the most accurate description. Let's say the South.

If you're referring to a city in Texas and you were referring to it as the Midwest, that would be grossly incorrect. Also, while I'd be fine living in Texas from a sociological point of view (other than the fact that it's swarming with illegals), I can't stand the weather.
 
Dude, what, are you going to make me google for "fourth largest city in the U.S."? Like if you tell me what city you live in, I'm going to start driving there and bust through your door while you're sleeping or something? Sheesh.

Actually, that sounds like something I might do.

I wasn't particularly concerned about that eventuality. I just don't like to say outright in my posts where I'm from, though it's fairly obvious.

If you're referring to a city in Texas and you were referring to it as the Midwest, that would be grossly incorrect. Also, while I'd be fine living in Texas from a sociological point of view (other than the fact that it's swarming with illegals), I can't stand the weather.

. . . which is why I followed up with "Midwest isn't accurate."
 
I think the ghetto/barrio/appalacia is worse.
you have to send your kids to school with those people and you can't completely avoid them by punching out to private schools. If you aren't married you don't want to be dating tweekers, hill billy chicks, or gangstresses.

you want a place that you can do fun things in and out doors. professional sports, arts, nice restaurants. you want to live in a scenic place that doesn't look like one giant field or pile of dirt.

I voted to make less money and live in Northern Ca rather than look forward all year to the corn roast festival, rattle snake roundup, or promming with the swine.

This whole thread has made me laugh. I have lived or spent time in nearly every region of the country though I spent the majority of my life in the South and I can tell you as rural as y'all 🙂 think this midwest is there is a very large part of the east coast that is just as rural.

I have lived in a couple of larger cities as well in the northeast and midwest and I definitely prefer what the larger cities have to offer overall; however, I will say that the smaller midwest town I live in now has been a great surprise. There is a sizable very wealthy population of finance, and big business people (old money) as well as a pretty big hospital system with a lot of Dr.'s in the area. Consequently, this town of ~200K is actually a pretty pleasant place to live on a resident's salary.

just some perspective:
my house is one of the nicest on my block and located within a 5 minute drive to all the hospitals where I work.
When I go out with the other resident's at night, I can buy a premium micro brew (yeah they love beer in the midwest) for less than $5 a pint. I can have a really nice dinner and drinks for less than $30 if I don't order the filet mignon. Oh and since the hospital knows that this small midwest town is not Chicago, they pay for insurance, parking, books, travel/lodging/food/and conference fees to any and all conference I present at, they also give me a large food stipend to use in the hospital. I love it here.

--I'll agree it's no chicago/New York/boston/LA/, but that's ok for now.
 
Oh damn...whatever.

1. NYC
2. LA
3. Chicago
4. Houston

(didn't have to Google that - although I'm not sure about #5)

5. Phoenix
6. Philly
7. San Antonio
8. San Diego
9. Dallas
10. San Jose


Just thought I would finish up the top 10. Other cities that are reasonable places to live are Denver, Milwaukee, Portland OR, Atlanta. They have a decent cost of living and are large metros with a lot to do.
 
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You two guys realize that the top 10 cities in America aren't the places that are hurting for physicians, right? Just wondering.
 
On the plus side, you know there wouldn't be the douchebag type of patients who are like "I looked this up on the Internet and it says my fibromyalgia is the cause ...can I have more Percocet??"
This is exactly correct.

Hey, I'm not pro-NY or -LA by any means. Basically I consider residents of NY and LA to be inbred losers who think they're cosmopolitan when in fact they're just insecure idiots. And I'm not like "ooo, this place sucks, there's no international ballet for me to watch on Saturday mornings." I'm just saying that a lot of places in the Midwest are rural.
There are also quite a few places that AREN'T rural. Wisconsin has two good cities by the way. Unless you're insistent on the opera, or cold temperatures turn you into a little girl.
 
For me Colorado is the place to be. Love the mountains. Love fishing.

Surely you can find someplace to go that pertains to your interests. Myself, I don't mind seeing "country folk". In fact, their some of the most down to earth patients you'll have, and some of the most appreciative. I can't tell you how many unsolicited bags of okra, tomatoes, cakes and jalapeno peppers I've gotten. And I'm as un-country as you get. The truth is there are low-lifes everywhere and I don't think your going to avoid that particular subset of patient unless you do just cosmetic surgery. Then you got the affluent, demanding patients with unrealistic expectations.
 
The coasts ain't all that either.

Most of LA is just one giant barrio.

Personally I rather live cheaply near Appalachian trailer parks than expensively near urban gangbangers.

This is what most of LA looks like:

4481604265_d7410d2fe3_z.jpg
 
Umm, living in a large city and the midwest aren't mutually exclusive. I live in the 4th largest city in the country and I can promise that real estate is much cheaper than the coasts. There aren't any trailers either.

Houston is the 4th largest city in the country but it isn't in the midwest. Which city are you talking about, Chicago?
 
Well, glade appears to have been banned, but I would suggest the following offer varying combinations of what he/she wants even though they are in "fly over" country:

the Twin Cities, Pittsburgh, Denver, Milwaukee, Columbus
 
Seattle anyone???

It's "coastal", temperate, lots of outdoorsy stuff, but also a decent sized city-- and we have and opera too 👍
 
Seattle anyone???

It's "coastal", temperate, lots of outdoorsy stuff, but also a decent sized city-- and we have and opera too 👍

Fantastic city, but the cost of living is atrocious. Portland is the new Seattle.

The rest of y'all can keep talking about how cities in the fly-over states suck. Stay out on the coasts.
 
Great city for sure...but at 294 cloudy days per year, too little sun for me.
that's cause you need to live in 362.5 days of sun.... your one of those people that starts having some seasonal affective d/o when the nights are just a little bit too long... 😍
 
that's cause you need to live in 362.5 days of sun.... your one of those people that starts having some seasonal affective d/o when the nights are just a little bit too long... 😍
Hey it rained here today (and only double digit temps)!

But you're right...one of the hardest parts about residency in PA was leaving the house in the dark, coming home in the dark. I was seriously Vitamin D deficient to the point that I was standing under the french fry lights to get my sun fix! :laugh:
 
Maybe because I grew up in the midwest, but there are definitely some nice little cities that have near everything one could need and not just Chicago. Very nice areas in Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Louisville (Yes, I know it is in KY but people live across the river too) and even smaller towns that still have acceptable living standards. Now, dealing with cold can suck.
 
Maybe because I grew up in the midwest, but there are definitely some nice little cities that have near everything one could need and not just Chicago. Very nice areas in Indianapolis, Cincinnati, Minneapolis, Louisville (Yes, I know it is in KY but people live across the river too) and even smaller towns that still have acceptable living standards. Now, dealing with cold can suck.

I agree. I'm a native Californian and I plan on moving to the midwest, hopefully for residency. There are a lot of very sophisticated cities...granted, we're not talking SF, NY, or Paris, here...but there's amazing food, a culture that increasingly seems to value creativity, and most of the entertainment stuff you would ever need. Seriously. I find microbrews from So Cal in places like Cleveland and Chicago that I can't find on tap in LA. That's crazy-talk. Like steak? I do. I've seen more concerts, performances, and art shows in the midwest cities than I have in Los Angeles (But, yeah, you'd have to head to NYC for things on the scale of The Met).

There's a middle class there, too. That's nice. The state isn't collapsing financially, that's also nice. And more than 50% of the population speaks English fluently, which I also appreciate. I went to Subway today and my friendly sandwich maker kept teling me how to ask for things in Spanish. I smiled and played along, but seriously, how 'bout we focus on not totally f-ing up my simple little sandwich first, and then we can joke about how to say "spinach" in Spanish. But I suppose I'm the only one that resents having to learn a new language just to order a sandwich in my own hometown?

Moreover, there is a type of class/sophistication amongst the upper crest in the midwest that just isn't found in LA or the OC. Or at least, the elite on the west is contaminated by an abundance of bleach-blonded, fully-implanted, Bentley driving obnoxiousness. These are the people that send good bottles of wine back with the waiter to put on a show for their friends, and would tell you that there's more art in LA but have never even been to the Ghetty. And none of these people seem to have ever worked for anything. I went to the Apple Store at the mall on Tuesday at 3 pm to find a parking lot full of Cayene's and a 3 1/2 hour line at the "genious bar." Something's wrong with that picture. ("You should have made an appointment online" Oh really? I would have, but MY FREAKING COMPUTER IS BROKEN. Sorry, that random Apple vent slipped in). In terms of medicine, more of your patients will have some form of insurance. They'll appreciate what you do and will show it more readily by virtue of not being entitled a-holes. I recently saw a study that surveyed physician satisfaction, and west coast was the lowest by a significant margin. It doesn't surprise me. For me, the cold is well worth the 50% cost of living. But, to each his own. By all means, move to the coast 🙂
 
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In terms of medicine, more of your patients will have some form of insurance. They'll appreciate what you do and will show it more readily by virtue of not being entitled a-holes.

:laugh:

Please get back to us after residency. I'm a Californian too and I recognize several of the comments you made above and agreed with them until this one.

Entitled, ungrateful A-holes are everywhere. As a matter of fact, IMHO, the patients who pay the least (ie, the uninsured or those on government plans) expect the most and are the biggest jerks about it. I have seen much more of an attitude, "chip on the shoulder", doctors are overpaid jerks attitude from the unemployed/undereducated/uninsured/underinsured than I ever do from those with a degree and insurance, driving a Cayenne.

Case in point (which I only bring up because it makes me laugh): saw a patient and her husband a few months back who spend an exhorbitant amount of time reviewing non-relevant issues with me (like the husband's health problems, family issues, etc.). At the end of our consult, she asks my MA what my first name is. When the MA said, "I call her Dr.", the patient responds, "What?! Don't let her treat you like that. You're her equal. When I worked in construction, I always called my boss by his first name!" My MA responds, "Well construction is a little different. She spent a lot of time in school and deserves to be called Dr. I don't have a problem with it." Patient: "She sounds like a snot to me. I would never work in a place where I wasn't treated with respect or couldn't call my boss by their first name."

I recently saw a study that surveyed physician satisfaction, and west coast was the lowest by a significant margin. It doesn't surprise me. For me, the cold is well worth the 50% cost of living. But, to each his own. By all means, move to the coast 🙂

There are plenty of those out there and it often comes down to COL, QOL and malpractice. There are just as many studies that show high rates of dissatisfaction in the south, Atlantic states, southwest, etc.
 
:laugh:

Please get back to us after residency. I'm a Californian too and I recognize several of the comments you made above and agreed with them until this one.

Entitled, ungrateful A-holes are everywhere. As a matter of fact, IMHO, the patients who pay the least (ie, the uninsured or those on government plans) expect the most and are the biggest jerks about it. I have seen much more of an attitude, "chip on the shoulder", doctors are overpaid jerks attitude from the unemployed/undereducated/uninsured/underinsured than I ever do from those with a degree and insurance, driving a Cayenne.
Have you ever worked in the Midwest though? I've heard the faculty here say what Zoom-Zoom said - that the people here are more appreciative. They're also less likely to grill the doctor on all the different options. The "paternalist physician" model is still what a lot of people actually want. I've heard plenty of patients say "You're the doctor, do what you need to do."
 
Have you ever worked in the Midwest though? I've heard the faculty here say what Zoom-Zoom said - that the people here are more appreciative. They're also less likely to grill the doctor on all the different options. The "paternalist physician" model is still what a lot of people actually want. I've heard plenty of patients say "You're the doctor, do what you need to do."

I hear that too as well, and have on both coasts.

I have family from the midwest and spend a lot of time there. Being appreciative is not exclusive to that area of the country. The "less likely to grill the doctor" is more a function of age, education, personality attributes and social status than it is of geography IMHO. There are just as many uneducated, rural elderly patients in central California who will say, "whatever you say, doc" as there are in Traverse City, MI. And you can't say Mayo Rochester, Grosse Pointe, MI, or North Shore Chicago without thinking of entitled, Cayenne (Volve?Saab?) driving a-holes. C'mon...those people are everywhere, not just in California or NYC.

I think the stereotypes here are a bit broad reaching. My point to the poster above is that his experience as a medical student is a bit different than it will be as a resident or attending and to expect that patients in the midwest are somehow magically nicer, more respectful, etc. is not always the case.

Then again, I actually enjoy having a more educated patient who wants to participate in their care and become knowledgeable about their condition than having someone who wants me to play parent.
 

Its a plug-in we are playing around with mostly to use in the Classified area. The intent would be that if someone was selling an item, we (SDN) could provide information that the person buying or selling has a phone number which can be traced to them should there be any issues of fraud. I was playing around to see how it worked.
 
The coasts ain't all that either.

Most of LA is just one giant barrio.

Personally I rather live cheaply near Appalachian trailer parks than expensively near urban gangbangers.

This is what most of LA looks like:

4481604265_d7410d2fe3_z.jpg

Depends on your definition of LA. If you mean just within the city there you are partly correct but areas like Westwood and West LA are nice. And if you meant the LA area then you are really off - Beverly Hills, Malibu, the various beach cities, nice parts of Long Beach, palos verdes, santa monica etc.

I grew up in LA area, went to college in the Bay Area, and now in med school in Atlanta. Bc of family have spent a good amount of time in Louisville.

The west coast is very nice but it's slightly overrated - overcrowded and overpriced. Atlanta doesn't quite have all the benefits of Cali or Florida but it's still "better" than midwestern cities outside of Chicago. As long as you avoid the midtown/downtown area housing is very affordable compared to LA or SF. Good diversity, culture, a lot of young professionals and good nightlife if you are single and the burbs are nice places if you are raising a fam. I think it's the perfect middle ground to the situation the OP described.
 
Hi all-- long absence from this board for me.

I just moved to Seattle and have to cast my hat in its ring. Seattle is a *phenomenal* city. It's gorgeous, stimulating and full of smart interesting people who migrate here. The move from NYC has boosted my QOL immensely.

Just from a residency perspective-- it's so phenomenal, working in a place that's efficient and respectful. Patients all seem to have that mythical "whatever you say, doc" quality (and believe me, there is *plenty* of money in Seattle-- combine Microsoft with no state income tax...). It's so dramatically different from New York, I can't even express it. Just... nice.

It's pricey, but again compared to Manhattan it's infinitely better. We have literally twice as much apartment, in a nicer building, for 10% less than we paid back east. And surgery-wise the referral area is massive-- very complex, interesting pathology.

I grew up in a mid-size city in the South. I won't move back.
 
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