So Much Doom and Gloom on this Board

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RXDOC1986

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Me: Graduated w/Pharm.D. in 1986, PGY-1 Residency - started working in metro-Atlanta {never done retail}. Been working one or two jobs, lots of overtime, for the last 33 years. Married for 34 years, 3 kids. Pharmacy profession has provided a great life for me, an immigrant who wanted a better life. I live in a million dollar house, drive a nice car and paid for two of my kids to go to college (the third one is 13). I am 60 and looking forward to a comfortable retirement in 6 or 7 years.

I am a realist, the profession has taken a huge nose dive. Things are not as great as they should be. Greedy colleges just keep putting out pharmacist. In GA, there is no NEED for 4 pharmacy schools and 450+ graduates every June. I strongly advised my kids against Pharmacy or anything in the health field.
BUT everyone here is already committed to the profession, you paid your tuition, taken your exams and are R.Ph. s.
Why all the negativity and doom & gloom. There are jobs out there, maybe the bottom has fallen out for the pay, but suck it up and work two jobs, work 50-60 hours a week and you will do just fine. Move to where the jobs are. I applied for a job in Nome Alaska that paid $230K to $280K a year (didn't get it), but I was ready to go! You can only get there by air, there are no roads. And the low temp is -37 F in the 9 months of winter.

Good luck to everyone here.

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Me: Graduated w/Pharm.D. in 1986, PGY-1 Residency - started working in metro-Atlanta {never done retail}. Been working one or two jobs, lots of overtime, for the last 33 years. Married for 34 years, 3 kids. Pharmacy profession has provided a great life for me, an immigrant who wanted a better life. I live in a million dollar house, drive a nice car and paid for two of my kids to go to college (the third one is 13). I am 60 and looking forward to a comfortable retirement in 6 or 7 years.

I am a realist, the profession has taken a huge nose dive. Things are not as great as they should be. Greedy colleges just keep putting out pharmacist. In GA, there is no NEED for 4 pharmacy schools and 450+ graduates every June. I strongly advised my kids against Pharmacy or anything in the health field.
BUT everyone here is already committed to the profession, you paid your tuition, taken your exams and are R.Ph. s.
Why all the negativity and doom & gloom. There are jobs out there, maybe the bottom has fallen out for the pay, but suck it up and work two jobs, work 50-60 hours a week and you will do just fine. Move to where the jobs are. I applied for a job in Nome Alaska that paid $230K to $280K a year (didn't get it), but I was ready to go! You can only get there by air, there are no roads. And the low temp is -37 F in the 9 months of winter.

Good luck to everyone here.
Well...that's very freestyle of you DOC. I got out in 1986 and by good fortune missed the Pharm-D craze by three or four years...I got a little experience in nuclear and was tempted but had kiddies and bills and also another job that sucked time but was extremely challenging, fun and interesting..essentially working two part time jobs. It didn't take long to realize that flogging pills at high speed behind some counter honked....but the shortage started and the pay went up and up as any fun or interest disappeared. Now I pick up a day here and there but am about done for good. Your last three lines should be a warning to all potential Pharmacy students. And as far as suck it up...50-60 hrs etc. Nome AK ??! ..like I wrote, you are quite a free style fellow unless you need to get away from the family for a while. You directed the comments to those already on the job and there are a select few opportunities for those with heavy duty business skill....a select few such persons. Otherwise.....see "nose dive" above.
 
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Why are you still working?

Typical bourgeois aspirations. Nice car, home with high valuation, having a kid at 47 (?)
 
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Why are you still working?

Typical bourgeois aspirations. Nice car, home with high valuation, having a kid at 47 (?)
Why am I still working? Because I am a damn good pharmacist, contributing to the profession, helping people. Working on the front lines in an All Covid hospital since last year.

Isn't every single person in this forum trying to get a well paying job and get ahead in life? TYPICAL BOURGEOIS ASPIRATIONS? Are you a communist type?
So you are volunteering your services, working for the betterment of mankind? Good for you!

A kid at 47? Boy you are so good at math, gold star for you buddy! Yes, what is it to you? Any issues with that?

Look bro, trying to inject a little hope and optimism for the young graduates on this board. So buzz off, or like you would say "get off my lawn"
 
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D1ZVPOsX0AACj17.jpg


Don't feed the troll (yes this works in both directions)
 
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Never done retail

Lol
 
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Maybe I am missing something but why bring up a job opportunity that you didn't get from years ago in Alaska as your best example. I trying to find something positive in it but can't.
 
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Me: Graduated w/Pharm.D. in 1986, PGY-1 Residency - started working in metro-Atlanta {never done retail}. Been working one or two jobs, lots of overtime, for the last 33 years. Married for 34 years, 3 kids. Pharmacy profession has provided a great life for me, an immigrant who wanted a better life. I live in a million dollar house, drive a nice car and paid for two of my kids to go to college (the third one is 13). I am 60 and looking forward to a comfortable retirement in 6 or 7 years.

I am a realist, the profession has taken a huge nose dive. Things are not as great as they should be. Greedy colleges just keep putting out pharmacist. In GA, there is no NEED for 4 pharmacy schools and 450+ graduates every June. I strongly advised my kids against Pharmacy or anything in the health field.
BUT everyone here is already committed to the profession, you paid your tuition, taken your exams and are R.Ph. s.
Why all the negativity and doom & gloom. There are jobs out there, maybe the bottom has fallen out for the pay, but suck it up and work two jobs, work 50-60 hours a week and you will do just fine. Move to where the jobs are. I applied for a job in Nome Alaska that paid $230K to $280K a year (didn't get it), but I was ready to go! You can only get there by air, there are no roads. And the low temp is -37 F in the 9 months of winter.

Good luck to everyone here.
Your goals certainly don't meet my expectations for a professional occupation.
Working two jobs is for waiters, dishwashers. You end up having no life because your time is spent at work.
Who cares for a million dollar house.
Bad news retail pharmacy IS pharmacy 60 % of pharmacists positions and it's paying wages from 15 plus years ago.
And working that late in life is a big mistake, anything can happen after 40. Who wants to die before retiring.
 
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Was getting ready to say some shi* but then realized it isn't going to phase OP.
 
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What's the point of having kids if one works 2 jobs and never sees them?
 
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Work 2 jobs and 50-60 hours......yah, so they can get burnt out in 3-5 years, instead of 10? WTF?
 
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Why all the negativity and doom & gloom. There are jobs out there, maybe the bottom has fallen out for the pay, but suck it up and work two jobs, work 50-60 hours a week and you will do just fine. Move to where the jobs are. I applied for a job in Nome Alaska that paid $230K to $280K a year (didn't get it), but I was ready to go! You can only get there by air, there are no roads. And the low temp is -37 F in the 9 months of winter.

Good luck to everyone here.

There are certainly jobs out there, but as you already mentioned there's 3x new grads outnumbering the amount of vacancies every year. No amount of bootstrapping will make up for that imbalance.

As for working 50 to 60 hours a week.. what year are we in, 2006? Many retail pharmacists now get only 32 hours/week in their full time positions

This isn't just a pharmacy problem, degree inflation is real and is affecting all industries.
 
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60 hours per week? No thanks. Life is about a lot more than money and being at the office/pharmacy.
 
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It's a really nice life when you have strict gender roles and expectations. You sound like my father except he made it a point to gather enough capital to not work after 55, and that's given what a disaster the profession was in the 80s.

There is the doom and gloom from mismatched expectations, but there's also quite a bit from the idea that working hard and doing a good job is actually counterproductive in enough environments to make us question the setup. I don't think many of us strictly work for purely materialistic reasons. Sure, we need to get paid, but that's the baseline. There's some need for professional satisfaction as well, which the longer the labor goes this way, the more that numbers matter over people.

Something like this (bolded is mine):

"In and of itself the destiny of this small planet that pursues its course somewhere in infinite space for a short time among the swarms of the ‘eternal’ stars is of no importance. Still less important is what moves for a couple of instants upon its surface. But each and every one of us, in and of ourselves of no importance, is for an unspeakably brief moment — a lifetime — cast into that whirling universe.

Out of satiety of life, men take refuge from civilization in the more primitive parts of the Earth, in vagabondage, in suicide. The flight of the born leader from the Machine is beginning. Soon only second-rate talent, successors of a greater age, will be available. Every big entrepreneur has occasion to observe a falling-off in the intellectual qualities of his recruits. But the grand technical development of the nineteenth century had been possible only because the intellectual level was constantly becoming higher. Even a stationary condition, short of an actual falling-off, is dangerous and points to an ending, however numerous and however well-schooled may be the hands ready for work.

And how is it with them? The tension between work of leadership and work of execution has reached the level of a catastrophe. The importance of the former, the economic value of every real personality in it, has become so great that it is invisible and incomprehensible to the majority of the underlings. In the latter, the work of the hands, the individual is now entirely without significance. Only numbers matter. In the consciousness of this unalterable state of things, aggravated, poisoned, and financially exploited by egoistic orators and journalists, men are so forlorn that it is mere human nature to revolt against the role for which the Machine (not, as they imagine, its owners) earmarks most of them. There is beginning, in numberless forms — from sabotage, by way of strike, to suicide — the mutiny of the Hands against their destiny, against the Machine, against the organized life, ultimately against anything and everything. The organization of work, as it has existed for thousands of years, based on the idea of ‘collective doing’ and the consequent division of labor between leaders and led, heads and hands, is being disintegrated from below. But ‘mass’ is no more than a negation (specifically, a negation of the concept of organization) and not something viable in itself. An army without officers is only a superfluous and forlorn herd of men. A chaos of brickbats and scrap-iron is a building no more. This mutiny, worldwide, threatens to put an end to the possibility of technical economic work. The leaders may take to flight, but the led, become superfluous, are lost. Their numbers are their death."


-Oswald Spengler
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That's the pharmacy profession in a nutshell right now, no one can actually make a difference in a positive sense.

This late evening, I can't sleep. A private company that is In-Q-Tel funded is going to get everyone's data in the VA, and they are well-known to be completely unaccountable and HIPAA doesn't apply to them. I don't really care about my own data personally, because I already what sort of kompromat issues I have, but the purpose that this company has is for the worst of reasons. I wish I could say that I can't do anything about it, but I can. It just would be career suicidal to do so (and might even get In-Q-Tel's sponsors on my case, which is something that I could do without. So, I'm going to have to hold my nose and not only be complicit in knowing the wrong thing is happening, but I'll be actually participating in it.

I don't care what kind of money is involved, the psychological labor involved in these jobs is much more burdensome. I wish I could make it a purely materialistic pursuit, but once you meet your material needs, is there nothing else you're concerned about? If there is nothing else for you, I'm happy for you, but I want more. There was a point in my career that I did, and I still think to some extent I do from the academic side, but those days are increasingly frustrated by the sort of people who are in it just for the material outcomes.
 
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don't feed the troll y'al
 
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Work 60 hours a week and die of a heart attack. What a life.
 
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I only work 1 job, about 3 years in retail, and already burned out...
That's not shocking at all to be honest. Imagine working retail with 50% more help, no patient calls, no immunizations, and no narcotic police BS. That's what we were doing 15 years ago and it wasn't amazing but it was more than tolerable. If I was a new grad making $45/hr today I don't think I could last more than a year or two in retail. With inflation looking like it's picking up that $45/hr is horrible pay.
 
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That's not shocking at all to be honest. Imagine working retail with 50% more help, no patient calls, no immunizations, and no narcotic police BS. That's what we were doing 15 years ago and it wasn't amazing but it was more than tolerable. If I was a new grad making $45/hr today I don't think I could last more than a year or two in retail. With inflation looking like it's picking up that $45/hr is horrible pay.
Inflation is a really major concern. Even with prices of everything going way up, wages will not. I think at some point in the very near future we're going to see pharmacist wages at the equivalent of $30/hr in 2020 when adjusted for inflation. They'll keep the wages just high enough to keep them from going to a minimum wage job.

What's really crap about all this is that the people who worked hard and are responsible with their money are the ones who are getting the worst of this.
 
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More work and stress with less staffing and pay.
In what universe does that make sense.
Current pharmacy students and pre-pharms... all I gotta say is don't do it or good luck.
 
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Me: Graduated w/Pharm.D. in 1986, PGY-1 Residency - started working in metro-Atlanta {never done retail}. Been working one or two jobs, lots of overtime, for the last 33 years. Married for 34 years, 3 kids. Pharmacy profession has provided a great life for me, an immigrant who wanted a better life. I live in a million dollar house, drive a nice car and paid for two of my kids to go to college (the third one is 13). I am 60 and looking forward to a comfortable retirement in 6 or 7 years.

I am a realist, the profession has taken a huge nose dive. Things are not as great as they should be. Greedy colleges just keep putting out pharmacist. In GA, there is no NEED for 4 pharmacy schools and 450+ graduates every June. I strongly advised my kids against Pharmacy or anything in the health field.
BUT everyone here is already committed to the profession, you paid your tuition, taken your exams and are R.Ph. s.
Why all the negativity and doom & gloom. There are jobs out there, maybe the bottom has fallen out for the pay, but suck it up and work two jobs, work 50-60 hours a week and you will do just fine. Move to where the jobs are. I applied for a job in Nome Alaska that paid $230K to $280K a year (didn't get it), but I was ready to go! You can only get there by air, there are no roads. And the low temp is -37 F in the 9 months of winter.

Good luck to everyone here.
This was a great and refreshingly positive post. Thank you for sharing. Can't really blame the colleges for wanting to get easy fed money. I am looking forward to getting a job! Have been applying for months. Sometimes it's hard to feel negative but I will try my best to succeed!
 
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It's always been this way, even 15 years ago it was the end of pharmacy, no jobs existed, it's the end of the world, we will be making 20 dollars an hour soon, etc on these boards. It's why I rarely come here - fear mongering runs rampant and so does the negativity. I'm in AZ and there are 5-10 new pharmacist job postings almost everyday and we have a pharmacy school here pumping out students. Maybe the market is as bad as people claim on these boards in their area but it's hardly the dead job with no hope everyone claims. I'm quite certain many just push that here and other places in the hopes of eliminating competition.
 
It's always been this way, even 15 years ago it was the end of pharmacy, no jobs existed, it's the end of the world, we will be making 20 dollars an hour soon, etc on these boards. It's why I rarely come here - fear mongering runs rampant and so does the negativity. I'm in AZ and there are 5-10 new pharmacist job postings almost everyday and we have a pharmacy school here pumping out students. Maybe the market is as bad as people claim on these boards in their area but it's hardly the dead job with no hope everyone claims. I'm quite certain many just push that here and other places in the hopes of eliminating competition.

15 years ago was the golden age of pharmacy. New grads were getting sign on bonuses, new cars, tuition reimbursement. CVS flew everyone out for a big party in Palm Springs. I highly doubt people were saying it was the end of the profession back then.

I don't know about AZ but most job listings are fake or already filled these days. They are only posted as a formality or for legal reasons to make it seem fair.
 
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It's always been this way, even 15 years ago it was the end of pharmacy, no jobs existed, it's the end of the world, we will be making 20 dollars an hour soon, etc on these boards. It's why I rarely come here - fear mongering runs rampant and so does the negativity. I'm in AZ and there are 5-10 new pharmacist job postings almost everyday and we have a pharmacy school here pumping out students. Maybe the market is as bad as people claim on these boards in their area but it's hardly the dead job with no hope everyone claims. I'm quite certain many just push that here and other places in the hopes of eliminating competition.

The number of students graduating each year has DOUBLED since then. The number of jobs has remained stagnant at best and has shrunk at worst. Why is it a surprise that many of them can’t find jobs?

“It’s a mathematical certainty.”
 
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It's always been this way, even 15 years ago it was the end of pharmacy, no jobs existed, it's the end of the world, we will be making 20 dollars an hour soon, etc on these boards. It's why I rarely come here - fear mongering runs rampant and so does the negativity. I'm in AZ and there are 5-10 new pharmacist job postings almost everyday and we have a pharmacy school here pumping out students. Maybe the market is as bad as people claim on these boards in their area but it's hardly the dead job with no hope everyone claims. I'm quite certain many just push that here and other places in the hopes of eliminating competition.

I am not going to put random % on which job postings are actual openings but it is not a large one. I have been actively looking and many jobs are already spoken for before they are even posted. It is just HR requirement. Even with CVS / Walgreens, the job you are applying for is not the job they will consider you for at the end, if they even look at your resume.
 
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It's always been this way, even 15 years ago it was the end of pharmacy, no jobs existed, it's the end of the world, we will be making 20 dollars an hour soon, etc on these boards. It's why I rarely come here - fear mongering runs rampant and so does the negativity. I'm in AZ and there are 5-10 new pharmacist job postings almost everyday and we have a pharmacy school here pumping out students. Maybe the market is as bad as people claim on these boards in their area but it's hardly the dead job with no hope everyone claims. I'm quite certain many just push that here and other places in the hopes of eliminating competition.
False. 15 years ago was 2006 and things were looking real bright back then. I was a P2/P3 and I heard new grads being offered (low) five figure sign on bonus and bmw lease from cvs. This was also back when PCI calls and vaccinations weren't even a thing.

Anyone willing to go into 200k+ debt for a pharmd in 2021 without doing their due diligence DESERVES to be poor for the rest of their life.
 
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The number of students graduating each year has DOUBLED since then. The number of jobs has remained stagnant at best and has shrunk at worst. Why is it a surprise that many of them can’t find jobs?

“It’s a mathematical certainty.”
The only mathematical certainty these fools have in their thinking are
- "You're just bitter about the profession bc you're stuck in a dead-end retail job. THAT WON'T HAPPEN TO ME" :rofl:
- "My hard work, perseverance, and MUH PASSION will set me apart from the rest"
 
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