So this might sound like an ambitious question...

[OrangeA]

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Hey everyone, I am new here, just registered today...blah blah blah. Anyway I have been thinking about choosing Anesthesiology as a specialty and was wondering how important you MS-1 / MS-2 grades are to Anesthesiology residencies? I have heard countless times that it doesn't matter at all and that all anyone needs to worry about is Step 1. However, what if you had lower marks in Physiology your MS-1 year? I have read that the three courses most Anesthesiologists excel in are Pharm, Phys, and Anatomy...I am not trying to sound like a crazy competitive med student, I am just curious as to what you all's opinion might be.

 

[jetproppilot]

Hey everyone, I am new here, just registered today...blah blah blah. Anyway I have been thinking about choosing Anesthesiology as a specialty and was wondering how important you MS-1 / MS-2 grades are to Anesthesiology residencies? I have heard countless times that it doesn't matter at all and that all anyone needs to worry about is Step 1. However, what if you had lower marks in Physiology your MS-1 year? I have read that the three courses most Anesthesiologists excel in are Pharm, Phys, and Anatomy...I am not trying to sound like a crazy competitive med student, I am just curious as to what you all's opinion might be.

Are you a med student? If so, what school are you at?

 

[climbingdocs]

Hey everyone, I am new here, just registered today...blah blah blah. Anyway I have been thinking about choosing Anesthesiology as a specialty and was wondering how important you MS-1 / MS-2 grades are to Anesthesiology residencies? I have heard countless times that it doesn't matter at all and that all anyone needs to worry about is Step 1. However, what if you had lower marks in Physiology your MS-1 year? I have read that the three courses most Anesthesiologists excel in are Pharm, Phys, and Anatomy...I am not trying to sound like a crazy competitive med student, I am just curious as to what you all's opinion might be.

If you grades are $h ity then how can your step 1 be good?

 

[OrangeA]

Yeah I am an MS2 at IU. It is more of an isolated incident type situation. I have high grades in all classes and a single average grade in Physio...it's annoying because I am "obsessive/compulsive," like 80% of all med students, but I just wondered what impact it could have one day in interviews, if any at all. Like I said, I don't want this question to be taken the wrong way, it's just out of curiosity.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Diagnosis: Med student neurosis. Don't get yourself worked up over this.

 

[OrangeA]

yeah yeah, that's what I thought too, just needed to hear it from people who know what the hell they are talking about.

 

[treasurefull2]

Yeah I am an MS2 at IU. It is more of an isolated incident type situation. I have high grades in all classes and a single average grade in Physio...it's annoying because I am "obsessive/compulsive," like 80% of all med students, but I just wondered what impact it could have one day in interviews, if any at all. Like I said, I don't want this question to be taken the wrong way, it's just out of curiosity.

Keep studying hard, DO WELL ON STEP 1, and they'll barely even bother to look at your grades...

Generally this is the order of weight:

(1) Step 1
(2) Letters of Rec
(3) CERTAIN clerkship grades (esp medicine and cardio)
(4) CERTAIN pre-clinical grades

But, as said above, you probably need to do well in your school courses to do well on Step 1.

 

[Bertelman]

No one will look at an isolated grade (physiology, pharmacology) and think you aren't cut out to do gas because you got a B or C. They will look at your overall GPA, class rank, and most importantly Step.

I wouldn't go so far as to say MS1/2 grades are unimportant. They are certainly a factor in your application. But I don't think committees give one subject a higher grade weight than any other. There are too many factors at play, differences in grading systems, class difficulty, etc.

 

[Southpaw]

Yeah I am an MS2 at IU. It is more of an isolated incident type situation. I have high grades in all classes and a single average grade in Physio...it's annoying because I am "obsessive/compulsive," like 80% of all med students, but I just wondered what impact it could have one day in interviews, if any at all. Like I said, I don't want this question to be taken the wrong way, it's just out of curiosity.

Your grades are important. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. You very likely won't do well on Step 1 if your 1st and 2nd year grades are poor. But, there will be other things more important on your application than your first and second year grades. For example, Step 1 and Step 2. Regardless, do as well as you can now and let the rest fall into place. Good luck.

 

[fakin' the funk]

Generally this is the order of weight:

(1) Step 1
(2) Letters of Rec
(3) CERTAIN clerkship grades (esp medicine and cardio)
(4) CERTAIN pre-clinical grades

Judging by the behavior of residency programs during this application season, I"ll offer a similar viewpoint. Many programs know enough about you from your transcript, Step 1 (+/- Step 2), and your LoRs to offer interviews. Others may offer only a small number before the Dean's Letter is out and wait to see what it says about other candidates they're looking at. And others - like Stanford (this is per Dr. Macario) - wait for the Dean's Letter on all their applicants since they feel it's the best way to judge how the applicant will perform clinically as a resident and "we want to train good all-around physicians."

Based on that, I would tweak the list a little bit. In order,
1) Clinical coursework/evaluations - as on the transcript and Dean's Letter - includes 3rd year and whatever 4th year grades are available by October
2) Step 1 +/- 2
3) LoRs
4) Preclinical coursework

 

[Southpaw]

At the medical student component this year at the ASA, two different program directors spoke and both said they apply more weight to Step 2 than Step 1 when it is available.

 

[treasurefull2]

At the medical student component this year at the ASA, two different program directors spoke and both said they apply more weight to Step 2 than Step 1 when it is available.

An exception to the rule... First and foremost (for better or worse) is Step 1, PERIOD. That gets you in the door and that's what's most important.

 

[Gimlet]

An exception to the rule... First and foremost (for better or worse) is Step 1, PERIOD. That gets you in the door and that's what's most important.

I think you have to differentiate which factors get you the interview vs. which ones programs consider when making their rank lists, though. You're probably right as far as getting your foot in the door, but I'm willing to bet that the Step 2 score is given more clout when the PDs are sitting down in February to decide who they want at their programs.

 

[treasurefull2]

I think you have to differentiate which factors get you the interview vs. which ones programs consider when making their rank lists, though. You're probably right as far as getting your foot in the door, but I'm willing to bet that the Step 2 score is given more clout when the PDs are sitting down in February to decide who they want at their programs.

I guess, but I know of a number of people who matched without even releasing their Step 2, into very competitive specialties such as Ortho. One of my friends matched with never releasing his Step 2.

 

[Gimlet]

I guess, but I know of a number of people who matched without even releasing their Step 2, into very competitive specialties such as Ortho. One of my friends matched with never releasing his Step 2.

Interesting...I always figured programs would want the score before putting you on their rank list.

 

[Southpaw]

I guess, but I know of a number of people who matched without even releasing their Step 2, into very competitive specialties such as Ortho. One of my friends matched with never releasing his Step 2.

This is not Ortho. If you're applying into Ortho you very likely have an extremely high Step 1 which equates to it being extremely disadvantageous to take Step 2 any earlier than when your school absolutely forces you.

Another point I'll make, the same 2 PDs that spoke at the ASA said they WOULD NOT EVEN RANK applicants if they didn't have a Step 2 score.

 

[ncdoc1974]

I would not worry about it...Work hard, do well on step 1 & 2, do well during 3rd year, and everything will be fine...I have yet to meet a single physician who told me "I really wanted to be an anesthesiologist, but I couldn't because I did bad in one course during med school"...BUT remember the more competitive the program, the more difficult it will be to match there...Doing well in med school allows you to go where you want to go...if you do poorly, you can still probably DO what you want to DO, just not WHERE you want to do it.

 

[Southpaw]

An exception to the rule... First and foremost (for better or worse) is Step 1, PERIOD. That gets you in the door and that's what's most important.

Prior to the ASA I believed as you, but no longer do I feel the picture as is absolute as you paint it.

Step 1 gets you in the door, improving on Step 2 can get you in doors that were previously locked, and Step 2 is questionably more important to PDs (depending on the program) when it comes time to make the rank list.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

Prior to the ASA I believed as you, but no longer do I feel the picture as is absolute as you paint it.

Step 1 gets you in the door, improving on Step 2 can get you in doors that were previously locked, and Step 2 is questionably more important to PDs (depending on the program) when it comes time to make the rank list.

Huh, well as I have said before I scored significantly better on Step II than I and I got somereally good interviews that I was pretty surprised I received.

 

[DOme2009]

fwiw, if you're a D.O. student applying to allopathic programs, you may need to take step 2 earlier to prove your step 1 score wasn't a fluke - that's just something i was told by a resident so ymmv. it's probably a good idea to talk with residents (or a PD if you know them) at the programs you're most interested in ahead of time (like during ms3 after your step 1 score is in).