Sound Physicians

[Maxfactor]

Does anyone know anything about Sound Physicians? They seem to be aggressively taking over hospital contracts from private groups in our area. Rumor has it that they are backed by private equity & United healthcare, and strongly promote midlevel practice. Anyone had personal experience?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Arantius]

I’ve posted this elsewhere- I worked locums at a few of their sites and I thought they were good. Good rates, never over 1:4 or solo, really strong CRNAs and a CMO who was really involved also clinical still which is rare. This was a year ago not sure what’s going on now. BUT I also just found a Bloomberg article saying they are not doing well financially like the rest of the amc’s. So, be careful and don’t take the deferred comp or equity options. Take the cash.

Sound Inpatient Physicians Hires Adviser for Balance Sheet Help

(Bloomberg) -- Sound Inpatient Physicians Inc. has hired PJT Partners for debt advice as the hospital-staffing company grapples with earnings pressure, according to people with knowledge of the situation. Most Read from BloombergTexas Power Prices to Surge 800% on Sunday Amid Searing...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[DirtDocMD]

Phil Eichenholz, former founder of Northstar, WAS the CEO of the anesthesia division. He is now “Chief Strategy Officer”. Andi Damron, formerly “Chief Anesthetist Officer” of Northstar, is currently the “Chief Anesthetist Officer” of Sound.

Their strategy is to make a lot of money. I’m sure there are some good sites, and plenty of bad ones. As with known “gold digging” wives (and husbands), just looking for money, if you’re gonna marry one, don’t pick an ugly/mediocre one. Dating (locums) is always the better option….

 

[Ashers]

David Leachman is the current anesthesia division CEO. He started Main Street Anesthesia that has a similar MO with anesthesia department take overs in New Mexico.

 

[Arantius]

Phil Eichenholz, former founder of Northstar, WAS the CEO of the anesthesia division. He is now “Chief Strategy Officer”. Andi Damron, formerly “Chief Anesthetist Officer” of Northstar, is currently the “Chief Anesthetist Officer” of Sound.

Their strategy is to make a lot of money. I’m sure there are some good sites, and plenty of bad ones. As with known “gold digging” wives (and husbands), just looking for money, if you’re gonna marry one, don’t pick an ugly/mediocre one. Dating (locums) is always the better option….

Does this mean we can start a kill, marry, f*ck game here on sdn? Lol

 

[CubsDynasty]

F: highest paying locums M: dare I say hospital employed? K: envision

 

[lotsapain]

I’ve posted this elsewhere- I worked locums at a few of their sites and I thought they were good. Good rates, never over 1:4 or solo, really strong CRNAs and a CMO who was really involved also clinical still which is rare. This was a year ago not sure what’s going on now. BUT I also just found a Bloomberg article saying they are not doing well financially like the rest of the amc’s. So, be careful and don’t take the deferred comp or equity options. Take the cash.

Sound Inpatient Physicians Hires Adviser for Balance Sheet Help

(Bloomberg) -- Sound Inpatient Physicians Inc. has hired PJT Partners for debt advice as the hospital-staffing company grapples with earnings pressure, according to people with knowledge of the situation. Most Read from BloombergTexas Power Prices to Surge 800% on Sunday Amid Searing...

finance.yahoo.com

Their CMO for anesthesia was removed replaced by a young lady who is 2.5 years out of training who went straight from being an attending to ACMO to CMO in under 3 years..... they were essentially following Envision model and hiring away Envision bobble heads (ie CMO before that)... imagine what happens when you apply Envision templates yet again.... in theory they sound good and seem to have promise as pointed above in practice after being exposed to their brass..... it is unclear if this is any different of a detached corporate structure who care little whether the capture the provider or not..... biggest issue with the large companies is their recruiting is terrible they just dont give a ****......

 

[Arantius]

Their CMO for anesthesia was removed replaced by a young lady who is 2.5 years out of training who went straight from being an attending to ACMO to CMO in under 3 years..... they were essentially following Envision model and hiring away Envision bobble heads (ie CMO before that)... imagine what happens when you apply Envision templates yet again.... in theory they sound good and seem to have promise as pointed above in practice after being exposed to their brass..... it is unclear if this is any different of a detached corporate structure who care little whether the capture the provider or not..... biggest issue with the large companies is their recruiting is terrible they just dont give a ****......

Well, I found the CMO to be extremely competent and she had a military career before anesthesia as I recall- she showed up when I helped in Phoenix and took call, not many in leadership will do that. She was good- and knew wtf was happening at the site. I don’t think she’s the one to blame for their corporate BS. Don’t know the CMO before her you are talking about. I mean does anyone think the corporate models are going to survive at all? I think it’s the governments way to get us to single payer (take everything in house).

 

[lotsapain]

Well, I found the CMO to be extremely competent and she had a military career before anesthesia as I recall- she showed up when I helped in Phoenix and took call, not many in leadership will do that. She was good- and knew wtf was happening at the site. I don’t think she’s the one to blame for their corporate BS. Don’t know the CMO before her you are talking about. I mean does anyone think the corporate models are going to survive at all? I think it’s the governments way to get us to single payer (take everything in house).

I hope they don't at this point.... Medicine turned into corporate mambo jumbo, bloated HR departments, practice managers, multiple layers of brass - doctors are told where to go by non-medical professionals... everyone is so jaded now and full of hatred.... hospital ownership of physicians is another problem as then they basically have no layer between physician and hospitals. - what do hospitals want most - to expand uncontrollably wo regard to staffing either way we loose.

 

[dannyboy1]

What are the hours and what is the pay. Don’t really care who signs the check so long as it clears….

 

[IMGASMD]

What are the hours and what is the pay. Don’t really care who signs the check so long as it clears….

Until they tell you how you should practice. Or how you should fill their QI/Billing/papers. Hold your payment until you complete ‘em.

 

[pgg]

What are the hours and what is the pay. Don’t really care who signs the check so long as it clears….

Hours aren't the most important thing.

There's a world of difference between solo work vs 4:1 ACT vs 6:1 firefighter duty. Call. Case load, acuity, intensity. How functional or dysfunctional the facility is.

 

[dannyboy1]

Until they tell you how you should practice. Or how you should fill their QI/Billing/papers. Hold your payment until you complete ‘em.

I’m an hours and money guy. Folks really having problems with billing and QI ? Not an issue at all at my place. In fact, nobody in administration has ever spoken with me about them, and I just fill it out as I see it.

 

[IMGASMD]

I’m an hours and money guy. Folks really having problems with billing and QI ? Not an issue at all at my place. In fact, nobody in administration has ever spoken with me about them, and I just fill it out as I see it.

You’re a better person than me.

Every transitions, I’ve ever been through, the company always sell they can do more with less. More matrix they can keep track of, more revenue can be captured, at the same time to change the clinical practice to be more “robust.” All these will just happen magically with their X (billing tool, QI tool or performance tracking tool) without any additional effort.

What they didn’t tell the hospital administrators is that 1. They will fire the secretary (whoever making less than 50k/yr) that suppose to be doing billing, and shift that responsibility to the physicians. 2. Add a QI form/questionnaire that has minimal impact on anything, but without doing it, they won’t pay. 3. Add some mandatory “clinical decision tool” which make you justify why or why not you didn’t do something, which at some point becomes just another check box.

Perhaps little things, maybe even quick things. I don’t believe that we should be doing them. All that self reported data will be hard pressed to change anyone’s mind/practice. Especially “this” crowd. Moreover, why am I doing all those ancillary tasks, which has very little benefit to patient care to boost the AMCs bottom line; more so to make the case for the existence of useless administrations.

To top it off, they make all these things mandatory to get paid. Most of us, yes including me sometimes, will just eat it and move on. Yes it is simple, yes it is quick…. But I don’t think it’s right to bury us in all these tasks, then also sideline the anesthesiologists and elevate crnas. Now THEY are the care providers, you’re so inundated with filling out these forms.

Perhaps I just think too much.

 

[dannyboy1]

You’re a better person than me.

Every transitions, I’ve ever been through, the company always sell they can do more with less. More matrix they can keep track of, more revenue can be captured, at the same time to change the clinical practice to be more “robust.” All these will just happen magically with their X (billing tool, QI tool or performance tracking tool) without any additional effort.

What they didn’t tell the hospital administrators is that 1. They will fire the secretary (whoever making less than 50k/yr) that suppose to be doing billing, and shift that responsibility to the physicians. 2. Add a QI form/questionnaire that has minimal impact on anything, but without doing it, they won’t pay. 3. Add some mandatory “clinical decision tool” which make you justify why or why not you didn’t do something, which at some point becomes just another check box.

Perhaps little things, maybe even quick things. I don’t believe that we should be doing them. All that self reported data will be hard pressed to change anyone’s mind/practice. Especially “this” crowd. Moreover, why am I doing all those ancillary tasks, which has very little benefit to patient care to boost the AMCs bottom line; more so to make the case for the existence of useless administrations.

To top it off, they make all these things mandatory to get paid. Most of us, yes including me sometimes, will just eat it and move on. Yes it is simple, yes it is quick…. But I don’t think it’s right to bury us in all these tasks, then also sideline the anesthesiologists and elevate crnas. Now THEY are the care providers, you’re so inundated with filling out these forms.

Perhaps I just think too much.

Billing and QI is all electronic by me. For billing you just put start/end time, GA/MAC, and providers. The diagnosis and procedure is autopopulated from the schedule. QI is a quick electronic form. Takes less than a minute

 

[IMGASMD]

Billing and QI is all electronic by me. For billing you just put start/end time, GA/MAC, and providers. The diagnosis and procedure is autopopulated from the schedule. QI is a quick electronic form. Takes less than a minute

Some of you may think I am petty…. If I was in GI alone, that’s 15 minutes of my life I can better spent browsing SDN.

 

[addoncase]

OAG in portland just got kicked out of three of the big provdience hospitals....who did they hire? sound physicians to consult and CRNAS directly

 

[nimbus]

OAG in portland just got kicked out of three of the big provdience hospitals....who did they hire? sound physicians to consult and CRNAS directly

Yep. Would be interesting to see if any of the existing OAG folks jump ship to Sound. I know Sound is losing a lot of money at one hospital they staff in SoCal. But they have deep pockets.

Anesthesiologist - Dayton, OH | Sound Physicians Careers

Anesthesiologist in Dayton Ohio, $577,500! $50k Sign on and quality bonuses! Manageable workload 1:4! Kettering Health Main Campus, a 465-bed, not-for-profit hospital, is part of the Kettering Health Network that includes 13 medical centers and more than 120 locations. The main campus offers...

careers.soundphysicians.com

OB Anesthesiologist - Providence Portland Medical Center | Sound Physicians Careers

OB Anesthesiologist Opportunity in our Newest Practice in Portland, OR Sound Anesthesia has an exciting OB Anesthesiologist opportunity in our newest practice in Portland, OR later this year. Providence Portland Medical Center is a 483-bed, not-for-profit, acute care teaching hospital in...

careers.soundphysicians.com

Certified Registered Nurse Anesthetist (CRNA) - Portland, OR | Sound Physicians Careers

Commitment to our Front-Line Clinicians Sound Anesthesia has an exciting CRNA opportunity in our newest practice in Portland, OR. Providence St. Vincent Medical Center is one of the leading hospitals in Oregon for heart care, cancer care, and women’s and children’s services. The hospital is also...

careers.soundphysicians.com

 

[DirtDocMD]

OAG in portland just got kicked out of three of the big provdience hospitals....who did they hire? sound physicians to consult and CRNAS directly

I’m nowhere near that situation, but am hearing that currently, none of the pre-existing Docs have signed with Sound, and there are LOTS of them (over 100??). Is this true?? Don’t see Sound making this happen unless they convince lots of those folks to “sign on the dotted line”…. Anyone know anything?

 

[Ashers]

I’m nowhere near that situation, but am hearing that currently, none of the pre-existing Docs have signed with Sound, and there are LOTS of them (over 100??). Is this true?? Don’t see Sound making this happen unless they convince lots of those folks to “sign on the dotted line”…. Anyone know anything?

My friend who was affected said she isn't going to sign with Sound. It sounds like OAG can absorb everyone in other locations.

 

[DirtDocMD]

My friend who was affected said she isn't going to sign with Sound. It sounds like OAG can absorb everyone in other locations.

Glad to hear it. Hospital administrators need to see a few “high profile failures” of these sort of deals, to get the message that Docs are NOT simply going to work for just anyone that hands them a paycheck, just because the AMC gave a nice presentation to the hospital CEO about “cost savings, synergy, and improved metrics”.

 

[dizzy21]

Anyone heard of locums rates yet?

 

[Dr. Rude]

Anyone heard of locums rates yet?

This post is the perfect response to the one above it.

Old joke: a man say to a woman, “will you sleep with me for $100?” She responds outraged “what do you think I am”? He responds, “will you sleep with me for $1 million?” She hesitates. He says, “we have established what you are. We are now just negotiating the price.”

 

[Anesthesia_Guy]

This post is the perfect response to the one above it.

Old joke: a man say to a woman, “will you sleep with me for $100?” She responds outraged “what do you think I am”? He responds, “will you sleep with me for $1 million?” She hesitates. He says, “we have established what you are. We are now just negotiating the price.”

I'll wh_ore myself out with impunity if the price is right. "$400/hr you say?" Oh but the local group will suffer as a result. Shoulder shrug and "when do I start?"

 

[Arantius]

Serial locums here too and I get a ton of recruiting texts and calls. This morning my phone is blowing up. I'm hearing that sites in Boise ID are falling apart. Are we headed for a cliff here? First Tacoma, then Portland now the Bay Area?

 

[Howard888]

Unless you can do MD only stipend free and have zero staffing restraints, you will eventually lose your contract.

MD only only works if you have the staff and the contracts to support it. If you have to ask for a stipend or you don’t have the staff/refuse to run a site-you will lose as too many will be willing to offer/say you can do it with CRNAs.

 

[IMGASMD]

Unless you can do MD only stipend free and have zero staffing restraints, you will eventually lose your contract.

MD only only works if you have the staff and the contracts to support it. If you have to ask for a stipend or you don’t have the staff/refuse to run a site-you will lose as too many will be willing to offer/say you can do it with CRNAs.

Unfortunately, everyone has a price.

 

[DirtDocMD]

I find it strange, that on a forum where many say, “We gotta stick together against private equity!”, or “If only we could unionize!!”, there is so often a response to these situations of “I’ll locums/scab there for xxx $$$ an hour!”. I COULD see if these folks were looking for truly PUNITIVE money ($600-$800 an hour), but it’ll take a while to harm a hospital/AMC at $400/hour, when $325 plus is quickly becoming standard pay in some locations.

Ain’t sayin’, just sayin’……

 

[cchoukal]

Serial locums here too and I get a ton of recruiting texts and calls. This morning my phone is blowing up. I'm hearing that sites in Boise ID are falling apart. Are we headed for a cliff here? First Tacoma, then Portland now the Bay Area?

Now the bay area?

 

[Anesthesia_Guy]

I find it strange, that on a forum where many say, “We gotta stick together against private equity!”, or “If only we could unionize!!”, there is so often a response to these situations of “I’ll locums/scab there for xxx $$$ an hour!”. I COULD see if these folks were looking for truly PUNITIVE money ($600-$800 an hour), but it’ll take a while to harm a hospital/AMC at $400/hour, when $325 plus is quickly becoming standard pay in some locations.

Ain’t sayin’, just sayin’……

Don't care.

 

[DirtDocMD]

Don't care.

Your “schtick” as “Anesthesia Guy” isn’t any funnier than it was when it was “Anesthesia Dude”. Have a great day.

 

[Anesthesia_Guy]

Your “schtick” as “Anesthesia Guy” isn’t any funnier than it was when it was “Anesthesia Dude”. Have a great day.

And my caring about what you think is still as undetectable.

 

[DirtDocMD]

And my caring about what you think is still as undetectable.

So why do you feel it necessary to comment about it?? Feel better, now?? Bless your heart. Have a great day.

 

[Anesthesia_Guy]

So why do you feel it necessary to comment about it?? Feel better, now?? Bless your heart. Have a great day.

K

 

[nycitygas]

OAG in portland just got kicked out of three of the big provdience hospitals....who did they hire? sound physicians to consult and CRNAS directly

The OAG group at the main providence hospital was pretty hardcore and well respected in the hospital.

Going from MD only to typical sound 1:8 ratio is crazy. I suspect some hospitals admin are going to get fired.

 

[Blockit]

The OAG group at the main providence hospital was pretty hardcore and well respected in the hospital.

Going from MD only to typical sound 1:8 ratio is crazy. I suspect some hospitals admin are going to get fired.

Obviously not respected enough to be protected from some ****e administrator deciding they had to go. Makes me sick. Do good work, be respected, expect to be paid for that good work, then you are kicked out.

 

[Coffee PRN]

Obviously not respected enough to be protected from some ****e administrator deciding they had to go. Makes me sick. Do good work, be respected, expect to be paid for that good work, then you are kicked out.

I thought it was more due to them being unable to staff up the ORs to their contractual obligations, despite using locums.

 

[CubsDynasty]

The OAG group at the main providence hospital was pretty hardcore and well respected in the hospital.

Going from MD only to typical sound 1:8 ratio is crazy. I suspect some hospitals admin are going to get fired.

Typical sound 1:8 ratio? Source? All the job listings posted above say "not to exceed 1:4 ratio".

 

[POW16]

Also what does it mean to be a "hardcore" group ? Lots of call ?

 

[Blockit]

I thought it was more due to them being unable to staff up the ORs to their contractual obligations, despite using locums.

You may be right about that specific situation; I have no particular knowledge of that group. I was speaking more in general terms; I have known providers in several groups through the years who provided excellent services to their facilities but still had their lives exploded by some jaghoff CEO/CNO/CMO trying to make points for themselves by “cutting expenses”.

 

[Blockit]

Typical sound 1:8 ratio? Source? All the job listings posted above say "not to exceed 1:4 ratio".

And while I have no particular knowledge about what Sound plans for these facilities, I personally worked at a Sound practice where I was routinely “medically supervising” 7-8 CRNAs.

 

[Arantius]

And while I have no particular knowledge about what Sound plans for these facilities, I personally worked at a Sound practice where I was routinely “medically supervising” 7-8 CRNAs.

Where was this? I also worked at a sound place and never went over 4

 

[gunnershow]

Lol that people here have accepted 4 as an acceptable coverage model and even touting a scummy AMC that blows up solo MD practices and strictly adheres to a 4:1 ratio

 

[Blockit]

Where was this? I also worked at a sound place and never went over 4

Oh, a state with a fascist weirdo governor 😉

 

[Dr. Rude]

Oh, a state with a fascist weirdo governor

Doesn’t narrow it down that much.

 

[Arantius]

Oh, a state with a fascist weirdo governor 😉

Yeah that narrows it down, so every state on either coast?!

 

[nimbus]

Typical sound 1:8 ratio? Source? All the job listings posted above say "not to exceed 1:4 ratio".

They also say “collaborative care model” whatever that means. At one of their sites, the CRNAs practice independently. The CRNAs do OR cases and cover OB at night with no MD in house. It’s a 0:2 ratio at night. An MD can be called in but is usually not for routine cases. If they intend to use medical direction or medical supervision, why would they make up a “collaborative care model”?

 

[nimbus]

Also what does it mean to be a "hardcore" group ? Lots of call ?

They probably meant it was a private practice group that staffed a VADs and heart transplant program. So yes, lots of call.

 

[<(^_^)>]

They also say “collaborative care model” whatever that means. At one of their sites, the CRNAs practice independently. The CRNAs do OR cases and cover OB at night with no MD in house. It’s a 0:2 ratio at night. An MD can be called in but is usually not for routine cases. If they intend to use medical direction or medical supervision, why would they make up a “collaborative care model”?

I bet it means 1:4 medical direction with additional “independent” CRNAs that you are in practice supervising/taking the fall for if it goes to crap.

 

[nimbus]

I bet it means 1:4 medical direction with additional “independent” CRNAs that you are in practice supervising/taking the fall for if it goes to crap.

All the CRNAs are “independent”. No medical direction there. MDs do their own cases in other rooms and give breaks. Hearts (10/month) are MD only. L&D was CRNA only although that unit will be closing soon due to low volume (30/month).

Basically Sound is the Trojan horse that brings CRNAs to predominantly MD only communities. If it’s an opt out state, they will opt out.