So today I found out I got a C in ochem...again.

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CrystalProphecy

CrystalProphecy

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I've already read through dozens of threads here and I know there is a universal consensus that "buckling down and getting as many As as possible in the next few semesters" is the general answer for these types of threads. I know excuses (work, ECs, volunteering, family) is not a just answer for why I did so badly in some of my courses. And I know complaining will do no good.

I'm new here at SDN and a current sophomore at UC Berkeley pursuing a biology major, but I feel so lost here after getting such terrible grades in everything. More than half my grades are Cs and Bs and No Passes at this point, and I am so set on medical school that I really cannot believe I got another C in organic chemistry when I clearly put in so much more effort this semester. And I can't retake the classes I got a C in due to school policy.

I really don't want to give up, but I just see the flame getting smaller and smaller. How am I supposed to push myself harder? My parents aren't typical strict parents, but I can see them giving up hope as I come in with worse and worse grades every semester.

If there's anyone who would like to shed light on this, it would be fully appreciated. Has anybody gone through a No Pass and two Cs in two of the most essential prereqs for med school? And did you ever consider going to another profession just because the GPA req is lower?

I know I am a sophomore and I have so much more ways to go -- I am just afraid I cannot pick myself up like a large majority of the other people here do (i.e., "I got a D retook, got an A"; "I got Cs but then the next 3 semesters I got all As", "I failed but I got a 200000 on the MCAT").

Thank you and I hope I will learn more as I spend more time on SDN.
 
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First off don't be ashamed. O-chem is the kind of chem that eats up people, beats them senseless, and spits out shattered people all the time. Often it is not really that the student is at fault, but they weren't a good match to the professor. If you have the ability, 3rd time is the charm, but go on like Ratemyprofessor.com and see if you can snag a good one: Talk with your counselor/dean (there might be a special option available, you have up to 12 units available to retry).

When/if you get to retake it, focus your life on that class. What I did was keep notes on my person and study every hour some random page for 15 minutes or so. Or at least, that's what I'm going to do to pass physics lol
 
It's not that big a deal. I got a C in orgo 1 and had to withdraw from orgo 2 the first time I took it - and I just got accepted. Just work harder and show an upward trend.
 
I'm going to tell you the advice that you already know but just need to hear again:

Keep at it. Really. I had a friend who came out of Berkeley with a 3.2cGPA and an even lower sGPA who has already been accepted to two medical schools. GPA is important but its just one of the many pieces that you need. Keep trying harder and see if you can't isolate what the successful students are doing that you are not. Ask them or your GSI's. The GSI's at Berkeley tend to be some of the most amazing people who really get the material they teach. Ask them to help you get it too.

Now is also the perfect time for you to start getting some substantial EC's. Ask every doctor you know that you would want to shadow if you can. Ask friends if they can hook you up with a doctor they know. Network. Getting some serious clinical experience before you apply is worth pounds to pennies at most schools versus a grade in some class.

Prep for the MCAT. Prep hard. Do you plan to take a year off between graduating and hopefully going to med school? If not, when are you taking the MCAT? Do you have a study schedule and plan down? The MCAT forum on these boards is a fantastic resource for studying for the MCAT and making a schedule you know you can stick to. A high MCAT can usually make up for all those lower grades you've collected along the way in one swoop.

Other than that, start putting some serious thought into why you want to be a doctor at all. You probably think you've already done this--and maybe you have--but odds are that you haven't. Could you explain to someone why you want to be a doctor instead of a Physicians Assistant? Do you even know what a PA is? What I'm trying to say here is that simply liking biology and health is not enough of a reason. Try to articulate to yourself why a physician is your ultimate goal. This will either give you the motivation you need, or make you start to really consider whether or not becoming a doctor is what you truly want.

Finally, make sure you have a life outside of your studies. Grades and GPA points are not worth feeling like ****. Use the C's as fuel for your fire. Don't let grade, or class say you can't. That's for the adcoms to decide.
 
You need to start studying a little bit every day. As my german biochem prof said , "Repetition is the mother of all learning." I believe this is true. You need to get as many passes over the material as possible. Learning ochem is like learning a new language and, as we know, the best way to learn a language is to immerse yourself in it. This doesn't mean do ochem everyday, all day. But, if you are truly having that much difficulty, you need to practice more. If you have not perfected your study habits, you will only continue to struggle. Time management and all that other junk is important, too. But, you first need to learn how to learn...if that makes sense 😉
 
Should worry more about that Math grade. :eyebrow: D's and F's are a no-no :nono:

As for the OCheam, the C's are not "that" bad in those classes, but in any case check if would you be able to retake the class at say a CC nearby, to get around your college's no-retake policy because of the C's.
 
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So, first bit of advice..get some type of tutoring..idk if UC Berk has free tutoring avaliable for students but if they do utilize it...got to your professor, speak with him/her throughout the semester especially if it is a class you know you will have trouble in, study with classmates, study the new material everyday you have the class even if you dont have any outside hw or reading and lastly, med schools look for students who show improvement..not just someone with a 4.0 who has no social skills!!! Good Luck!!
 
Oh my goodness, I really didn't expect such an outpouring of positive and constructive comments here. I admit, I used to be a CollegeConfidential addict before, but the community here is much more supportive and responsive to threads like these. I wasn't even expecting this many replies!

I am definitely planning to retake the math at comm college this summer. As for ochem, I would love to take that with the math, but I am also planning to do research and work this summer and so I may not have enough time to devote to ochem to ensure that I get an amazing score in ochem. I'm not even sure if they offer ochem during the summers...so it might be a bit harder there.

@Jubjub, you gave amazing advice. And as a sort of premed advisor over here (despite my bad GPA, I do have a lot of enthusiasm for the career/shadowing/volunteering/ECs that helped me get this position on campus), those are the perfect questions to ask. I do know what a PA is, and that's why I asked in the OP about alternatives in case MD does not eventually work out for me. I do plan on opting out a year so I can make up for these beginning semesters and take a break to do something worthwhile before applying to med school.

And thank you to everyone else again who replied! If new viewers on this thread have insight, please still feel free to comment. I appreciate each and every post on this thread.
 
i think you also need to figure out what went wrong those 2 times.. did you not do enough questions? did you run out of time? figuring out how you can change the way you were studying to understand better may help you out in the long run
 
Do you feel you have been learning the material in your classes or are you just passing through the semester trying to keep your head above water? I am not sure if you have any other factors outside of school that are creating issues such as work or family. Only you know the answer to that. However, reassess your schoolwork, life, and long term goals. If you really are dedicated to school and going to medical school you need to put that endeavor at the forefront of your life and make it a priority. You obviously will need to devote more time and energy into your studies because what you have been doing so far obviously isn't giving you the grades you want. I hope you can figure out a new plan for yourself and own all your classes next semester, it can be done! 🙂 Best of luck!
 
CrystalProphecy said:
I've already read through dozens of threads here and I know there is a universal consensus that "buckling down and getting as many As as possible in the next few semesters" is the general answer for these types of threads. I know excuses (work, ECs, volunteering, family) is not a just answer for why I did so badly in some of my courses. And I know complaining will do no good.

I'm new here at SDN and a current sophomore at UC Berkeley pursuing a biology major, but I feel so lost here after getting such terrible grades in everything. My terrible BCPM grades are as follows:

Fall 2009
Gen Chem: A-
Math I: B+

Spring 2010
Orgo I: C
Math II: No Pass in a Pass/No Pass (essentially a D or an F)

Fall 2010
Orgo II: C
Bio I: ??? (grades not out yet)

More than half my grades are Cs and Bs and No Passes at this point, and I am so set on medical school that I really cannot believe I got another C in organic chemistry when I clearly put in so much more effort this semester. And I can't retake the classes I got a C in due to school policy.

I really don't want to give up, but I just see the flame getting smaller and smaller. How am I supposed to push myself harder? My parents aren't typical strict parents, but I can see them giving up hope as I come in with worse and worse grades every semester.

If there's anyone who would like to shed light on this, it would be fully appreciated. Has anybody gone through a No Pass and two Cs in two of the most essential prereqs for med school? And did you ever consider going to another profession just because the GPA req is lower?

I know I am a sophomore and I have so much more ways to go -- I am just afraid I cannot pick myself up like a large majority of the other people here do (i.e., "I got a D retook, got an A"; "I got Cs but then the next 3 semesters I got all As", "I failed but I got a 200000 on the MCAT").

Thank you and I hope I will learn more as I spend more time on SDN.
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Since you go to UCB, admissions will probably understand why your GPA is slightly lower than someone from a CSU. For example, a 3.5 from UCB = 3.9 from CSU.
 
Global Warming said:
Since you go to UCB, admissions will probably understand why your GPA is slightly lower than someone from a CSU. For example, a 3.5 from UCB = 3.9 from CSU.
Click to expand...

I severely doubt that is true. OP, you should not bank on a GPA adjustment.
 
I'm in a somewhat similar position as you. C/C+ in ochem1/2. Don't let it get you down. Even after taking a beating from ochem, I just use it as motivation. One of my high school calc teachers always told us: Work SMARTER, not harder. Figure out what you're doing wrong, studying-wise, and fix it. It's never too late... because if medicine is REALLY what you want to do, then you'll find a way to make it happen--it might just take a little while longer than you originally expected. Personally, I'm not applying until after my senior year, so as to repair my gpa some and get more clinical/research/volunteering experience to beef up my app. And you always have the post-bacc option. If you know you want this, then there's really no rush in getting there-- be patient, never doubt yourself, and don't ever give up. Good luck 🙂
 
I'm in a somewhat similar position as you. C/C+ in ochem1/2. Don't let it get you down. Even after taking a beating from ochem, I just use it as motivation. One of my high school calc teachers always told us: Work SMARTER, not harder. Figure out what you're doing wrong, studying-wise, and fix it. It's never too late... because if medicine is REALLY what you want to do, then you'll find a way to make it happen--it might just take a little while longer than you originally expected. Personally, I'm not applying until after my senior year, so as to repair my gpa some and get more clinical/research/volunteering experience to beef up my app. And you always have the post-bacc option. If you know you want this, then there's really no rush in getting there-- be patient, never doubt yourself, and don't ever give up. Good luck 🙂
 
CrystalProphecy said:
As for ochem, I would love to take that with the math, but I am also planning to do research and work this summer and so I may not have enough time to devote to ochem to ensure that I get an amazing score in ochem.
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Here's the hard truth - if you can't start turning in consistent As in your coursework, any med school aspirations you have are just unrealistic dreams. It won't happen on the track you're on now.

You're wasting your time with research, ECs, volunteering, etc. If you want to go to med school, you need to focus your time on improving your class performance and nothing else. Until and unless you can do that successfully, you're fooling yourself.
 
Global Warming said:
Since you go to UCB, admissions will probably understand why your GPA is slightly lower than someone from a CSU. For example, a 3.5 from UCB = 3.9 from CSU.
Click to expand...

How does a 2.5 from UCB compare?
 
Dbate said:
I severely doubt that is true. OP, you should not bank on a GPA adjustment.
Click to expand...

LOL I agree w/ Dbate. Where did the 3.5 = 3.9 factor come from? Yes they'll see how he got a 3.5 from UCB, a better school, but still 3.9 is a nice gpa and we don't exactly know what admissions thinks.
 
You're not trying hard enough.
 
If you really are trying as hard as you say you are, it may be time to adjust your study methods. Don't just keep attacking the material the same way when it's obviously not leading to the grades you're hoping for.

Also, while the goal should be to fully learn and retain the information presented in a class, maybe you should put more focus into assessing the testing style of your professors. Ask the opinions of others who have taken the professor before you. Do test questions come from the reading, or lecture notes, or more so from homework assignments? This will help you at least focus your efforts better and allow you to work smarter and not necessarily harder. Good luck!
 
Musclemass said:
Here's the hard truth - if you can't start turning in consistent As in your coursework, any med school aspirations you have are just unrealistic dreams. It won't happen on the track you're on now.

You're wasting your time with research, ECs, volunteering, etc. If you want to go to med school, you need to focus your time on improving your class performance and nothing else. Until and unless you can do that successfully, you're fooling yourself.
Click to expand...

seconded
 
Global Warming said:
Since you go to UCB, admissions will probably understand why your GPA is slightly lower than someone from a CSU. For example, a 3.5 from UCB = 3.9 from CSU.
Click to expand...
what the hell are you talking about?
 
DoctaFuture said:
LOL I agree w/ Dbate. Where did the 3.5 = 3.9 factor come from? Yes they'll see how he got a 3.5 from UCB, a better school, but still 3.9 is a nice gpa and we don't exactly know what admissions thinks.
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Hahaha. The OP should be happy he has broken the 4.0 scale at community college and can say he has a 6.5 GPA.

OP - I understand that it is worrisome for you to get those grades, but you said you worked hard. What does this mean? That you would have gotten an F otherwise. I strongly suggest you find a peer study group or approach the tutors for help on study skills. Your grades will go up as you practice and get help.
 
Egh, as more and more grades out, I am reconsidering what I want to do with my time...

B- in botany. Woooop de doo, I have completely messed up this semester. I mean, yes, a tad better than the C and the No Pass for Math II last semester, but it doesn't even show that I tried to improve my grades for this semester. This is so depressing.

I have to agree with the followup posts that a 3.9 CSU comparison to a 3.5 from UCB is like saying "a B in an AP class is like an A in a regular class". It's true GPA-wise, however all it really does is act as an excuse to justify the bad grades and make yourself feel better. Emotionally awesome, but not realistic enough to help in future semesters.

I understand I should be giving up ECs and work to improve my studies, but I feel that they partially make up for the dip in GPA. Again, another fear is that even if I give up every EC and job I have, I could still maintain a bad GPA and set myself in a terribly bad position with no strengths on my app. Not one of you could probably guarantee that with the drop of ECs/my jobs that my grades will definitely improve.

I really think it is an issue of studying smartly and at the right time at this point. And the jobs honestly do bring experience for myself and money for the family. And the one EC I do is a premed related thing that I love doing and has low time commitment (2 hrs/week) so it is not bad.

But with the report of my botany grade, I beg to differ with everything I just said. =.='' Grades are so depresssiinnngggg.
 
A job and EC? Sorry, but you will have to drop them if you want your grades to improve. It doesn't matter how sweet your ECs are if your grades don't shape up.
 
happyparty said:
Face it kid, medicine aint 4 u
Click to expand...

+1. ochem is a weeder course for a reason. if by an alignment of the planets some unsuspecting med school accepts you, how are you ever going to survive if you can't even pass a class called "math II"
 
In my opinion -

The key to Organic Chemistry is Stephen Kleins book "Organic Chemisty as a Second Language"

Let me tell you, I got an A in org 1 and a B in org 2 without buckiling down and doing practice questions etc - just attending class and reading these books

This may not work for everyone but I LOVED Orgo becuase of them!! Spread the word like wildfire!
 
youre in the situation my roommate was in. fwiw we also went to cal. His life was so much better when he realized medicine wasnt for him.
 
Global Warming said:
Since you go to UCB, admissions will probably understand why your GPA is slightly lower than someone from a CSU. For example, a 3.5 from UCB = 3.9 from CSU.
Click to expand...

The problem is Berkeley has a lot of students that apply to medical schools, so the OP will have their GPA taken in that context. It is true, that difficulty varies between schools. If some of you think a 3.5 from UC-B and a 3.5 at some random college (my first college for example) are equal, then you are deluded. At some schools a 3.5 is great, and at others you would get a 3.9 with the same amount of work. This is just reality. To the OP: I would stick with it, and take orgo over again if need be. There are tons of competent doctors that have had trouble in one or more of their pre-reqs. For some reason I cannot succeed in calculus (above average grade with no curve = C+ 🙁), but I got an A- in orgo. A lot of people have that one class that they struggle with.
 
Lol wtf is Math I and II? Sounds like something that would involve categorizing M&M's and counting on your fingers and toes.
 
ilikepancakes said:
+1. ochem is a weeder course for a reason. if by an alignment of the planets some unsuspecting med school accepts you, how are you ever going to survive if you can't even pass a class called "math II"
Click to expand...

That's harsh and unwarranted. OP, don't let random people on the internet who don't know you or your abilities discourage you from accomplishing a goal. If you truly want to be a doctor, you can be one. What it will take is hard work and determination.

I don't doubt that you worked hard to achieve your grades, but that simply means you have to work harder or, more importantly, work smarter. Seek out advisors and tutors, they will do wonders for your grades. Perhaps even form study groups for future classes.

Regardless of what you do, the most important thing is for you not to give up. The statements of random people who know nothing about you on the internet should not discourage you. You can do it. And I am sure you know this.
 
Chops369 said:
Lol wtf is Math I and II? Sounds like something that would involve categorizing M&M's and counting on your fingers and toes.
Click to expand...

Student: I think something is wrong! My M&Ms have Ws on them!
Professor:
facepalmvm.gif
 
Dbate said:
That's harsh and unwarranted. OP, don't let random people on the internet who don't know you or your abilities discourage you from accomplishing a goal. If you truly want to be a doctor, you can be one. What it will take is hard work and determination.

I don't doubt that you worked hard to achieve your grades, but that simply means you have to work harder or, more importantly, work smarter. Seek out advisors and tutors, they will do wonders for your grades. Perhaps even form study groups for future classes.

Regardless of what you do, the most important thing is for you not to give up. The statements of random people who know nothing about you on the internet should not discourage you. You can do it. And I am sure you know this.
Click to expand...

harsh and unwarranted? more like a reality check. it'll save the op a lot of time, money, and disappointment/heartache the sooner they realize that this is an extremely competitive field and seeking false hope from random people online doesn't grant admission. i never said they should give up [on a successful career], but a field outside of medicine should probably be considered
 
happyparty said:
Face it kid, medicine aint 4 u
Click to expand...

Oh Wow, I hope this was a joke, because I can assure you that there are many physicians (Surgeons, Subspecialists, Radiologists, etc) today who had these same types of issues with various classes including OChem, BioChem, Physics. The best thing to do is understand exactly why you didn't do well in the course. Its easy to blame the professor but you have to take on some of the issues. Maybe you are too involved outside of school & need to see what you can cut back on.

Now you are going to have to work on getting better and do well on the MCAT.

I can assure you the amount of info from Ochem that I used in school is close to known
 
I'm glad to know that the posts that I thought were a little harsh on here were pointed out to be unwarranted. I know constructive criticism is good for everyone, but calling someone out on a "Math II" when anyone probably could have reasoned it was "Calc II" is a little harsh.

I have been debating whether to drop my 2nd job for a semester or not. I work 4 hrs/week on one job and 8 hours/week on another job. Last semester, my justification was "I just sleep in on Saturdays anyway (as the 8 hours in the 2nd job is just a full day on Saturday) and when I wake up, I just eat lunch and study for 2-3 hours anyway which I can do at work"...because there's slow periods during work which I can pull out a book and just study for a few hours.

Should I do it? Because I did not feel overwhelmed or stressed last semester from 2 jobs, but now I realize that could have been because I didn't dedicate enough "smart studying" time to academics.
 
TriagePreMed said:
A job and EC? Sorry, but you will have to drop them if you want your grades to improve. It doesn't matter how sweet your ECs are if your grades don't shape up.
Click to expand...

i dont think OP needs to drop the ec's... i somehow managed to get through med school for 3 jobs and 3 EC stuff.. you just budget your time. However, OP ochem really requires understanding. My study strategy was to listen very intently in class and review class notes at the end of the week but also read the corresponding chp in the textbook and do ALL the questions in the textbook chapter and any questions that the professors assigned. I felt like once youve seen all that, you've seen a lot in that specific topic. I managed to get A's in both ochem 1 and 2 doing just that.
 
^ Interestingly enough, I just talked to someone who knows me very well and he also said that I shouldn't be dropping my ECs either. He said that the value of my extra job (which is patient, clinical-based) is worth more than the extra 8 hours of studying -- because honestly, I would be using 4 hours of that time to gain sleep and 4 hours just to study more. His reasoning is that of 168 hours in the week, the extra 8 hours will, at max, improve maybe the grade of one or two classes from a B to a B+ and a C to a C+. And that's like just trying to make a train wreck look better by putting a pretty bow on it instead of trying to find the mechanical error that caused it.

He recommended just to study smarter and study more often. Any thoughts? I think he has some legitimacy to his argument and he knows me well. And it correlates to all the "study smarter, not harder" posts above...
 
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I'm almost in the same situation as you (as a sophomore), except my grades are slightly better. But I think the community here has really empowered me with optimism to strive harder and hit harder next time.


My stats are like this:

Freshman:
Semester 1:
3.61- A in CHM, A in MTH, B in BIO

Semester 2:
2.79- B+ in MTH, B+ in BIO LAB, B in CHM, C- in BIO

Sophomore:
Semester 3:
3.14- A- in ORGO, B+ in Neuro, B+ In RSCH, C+ in Genetics


*If I get a 4.0 for my next 3 semesters, I can still end up with a 3.6-3.7 CUM*

I would suggesting getting the "Orgo as a 2nd language" book for ORGO II, it'll help you get an A easy.
 
Story of my life the past two years:

Gen Chem I: B-
Gen Chem II: B-
Gen Chem III (we're on quarters): C (I seriously busted my ass to get this...)

Ochem I: B-
Ochem II: C+
Ochem III: B+

Gen Chem III again: B (wtf?!?)

Guess what. I'm HORRIBLE at chemistry (obviously). But guess what...not that many schools seemed to care. I've gotten into to 2 MDs, 1 DO, and I'm on the waitlist at OSU and Case which is more than I could have hoped for. None of my interviewers bashed my GPA (which ended up being a 3.5). The interviewers that did ask me about ochem agreed with me that it's just a hard subject and really did not place much weight on it at all.

Everybody has a weakness. Obviously, ochem isn't your forte. And maybe not calc II (i struggled in that as well but ended up doing ok by some miracle). But you can go retake calc II and show them you can do it (like you said you would). If you fail it the first time, ok. But now you have the motivation to do REALLY well and if you want to be a doctor so bad, you will!

Just forget ochem and move on. Seriously, anyone who has been a premed will understand that's hard. Don't change your career choice because of ochem....of course you have to have an understanding of it but are you going to be drawing out sn1 reactions in the ED to help a patient? My dad is a really successful neurologist and the chair of his dept...he doesn't know crap about ochem. Don't listen to people who are saying it "weeds" people out to become doctors. Because believe me you can get straight A's in ochem and be the most horrible doctor ever.

Don't give up. If it gets to the beginning of your senior year and you've continued to struggle, then you can decide what to do. Honestly, I wasn't sure whether or not I wanted to go to medical school but I figured if I shot for that, changing my mind would be easy since the requirements aren't as bad for grad school or whatever else I'd want to do. If you're really stuck you could do a post-bacc after you graduate.

Summary: I did horrible too and I'm still going to be a doctor. Keep trying hard.
 
is math II calc 2? haha calc 2 sucks!! calc III is wayy better. its calc 1 just in 3-D and all about vectors and planes and stuff.. maybe try that and show that you can do well in math?
 
Wow, a policy that says you can't retake a class you got a C in? Ouch. I got a C in Gen chem, retook it this semester and got an A. So I'd hate to be in your situation really. Can't you petition to retake?
 
I'm being completely serious in this question:
Have you considered transferring to an easier school? UCB isn't going to get you in, but a poor GPA will keep you out.
 
^ In response the the above, this is how I think of it. If I cannot survive in Berkeley with a good GPA, how will I surivive med school? If by the end of my undergraduate years at Berkeley I still have a really bad GPA, I'll take it as a sign that medical school is not meant for me and that I cannot take the enormous load I should expect in med school.

Do I still want to be a doctor? Hell yea. But I also want to be realistic when it comes to my future profession.
 
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