So what courses do you recommend to take in High School?

Nov 26, 2010
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This is my general schedule for my junior and senior years.This is open to minor changes(and yes I'm damn sure I can handle these classes)
I plan to enter med school as a non-traditional student after my army retirement is completed(I'll be around 42 by then)knowing full well I'll have to take some extra premed classes then and there.
I'll major in neuroscience in college with a possible double major in economics(my interest).

Junior Year
1.AP English
2.AP American History
3.AP Chemistry 2
4.AP Physics
5.German
6.Either Algebra 2 or Trig depending on my circumstances next semester

Senior Year
1.AP English
2.AP Government and Economics(one class,2 different subjects at m school)
3.AP Biology 2
4.AP Statistics
5.German
6.Either trig or AP calculus given my circumstances my next semester.

I'd say it's pretty well off,no?
Gives me some breathing room for a double major that's for damn sure.
And this isn't even considering the possibility of me having a 7th period this year or the next 2,which could conceivably free up classes.
And also would you guys recommend me taking 3 years of German or only 2 years,thus letting me possibly take algebra 2 the same year as geometry,ending up with me being able to have calculus my senior year.
Thank you all for your experience and advice in advance.
 
Aug 13, 2010
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This is my general schedule for my junior and senior years.This is open to minor changes(and yes I'm damn sure I can handle these classes)
I plan to enter med school as a non-traditional student after my army retirement is completed(I'll be around 42 by then)knowing full well I'll have to take some extra premed classes then and there.
I'll major in neuroscience in college with a possible double major in economics(my interest).

Junior Year
1.AP English
2.AP American History
3.AP Chemistry 2
4.AP Physics
5.German
6.Either Algebra 2 or Trig depending on my circumstances next semester

Senior Year
1.AP English
2.AP Government and Economics(one class,2 different subjects at m school)
3.AP Biology 2
4.AP Statistics
5.German
6.Either trig or AP calculus given my circumstances my next semester.

I'd say it's pretty well off,no?
Gives me some breathing room for a double major that's for damn sure.
And this isn't even considering the possibility of me having a 7th period this year or the next 2,which could conceivably free up classes.
And also would you guys recommend me taking 3 years of German or only 2 years,thus letting me possibly take algebra 2 the same year as geometry,ending up with me being able to have calculus my senior year.
Thank you all for your experience and advice in advance.

Look, this is something that we cannot help you with. You need to talk to a counselor at your school (or whoever arranges your schedules) and see what they recommend you take. Everyone is different.

And really, what are you asking? To me, it sounds like you're just bragging that you're smart. Well guess what, we're all smart. Welcome to the club.
 

jvanewportnews

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Dec 29, 2008
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Well first off, you will run into at least one scheduling problem with those classes, I can almost guarantee, so don't let that bother you much.
Take trig and then calculus if at all possible. Although you may not do well on the AP test for credit, it's still an excellent review and a leg up for entry-level calculus in college. As for the rest, as redhead512 stated, guidance counselors are there for a reason.

It looks like you want to accomplish a lot, and those classes are not impossible, but you will probably be stressed mid-way through junior year. But hey, what do I know? You are "sure" you can do it and your life is planned out, so good luck!
 

nlax30

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Oct 4, 2006
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Couple things I'm just going to throw out here for you to seriously think about.... first, though, I do commend you on being proactive and not slacking off your junior/senior year of high school.

That said....

I honestly don't think taking that load of AP's is necessary, even if you are planning on a double major in college. I certainly would NOT count on the AP sciences counting as credit toward med school prereqs, or even towards a university science degree. You may get generic credit for those, and they may even count as science credit towards a non-science degree, but I have seen where a university did not accept AP science credit towards a sci degree.

And possibly the biggest "issue" I see.... why on earth would you PLAN on entering med school at 42? Especially while you're still young and in HS? There are many folks who do go to med school at that age after a first career but I doubt any of them planned for life to happen that way. Since it seems like you're interested in the military, what about being a military physician and having them pay for your schooling?

I don't know, I just don't really see any valid reason why someone would purposely choose to wait 20-something years before med school. By that point you are probably going to need to do most pre-reqs over again or at least take a year to take some courses and prep for the MCAT, then 4 yrs of med school with classmates a generation younger than you, then at LEAST 3 more years of residency training. To say that taking at least 8 years out of your life at 40 to pursue medicine is a sacrifice financially, emotionally, and physicially is IMHO an understatement.
 
Nov 5, 2010
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Wow- I wish my high school offered that many AP classes. That does look like a pretty stressful regimen of classes junior and senior year, but better than a senior slide.If you're interested in medicine, it may be a good idea to take a little bit less stressful schedule and free up time for volunteering or shadowing to see if you're interested in the profession.
 

911 Turbo

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This is my general schedule for my junior and senior years.This is open to minor changes(and yes I'm damn sure I can handle these classesreally? you're still in algebra 2, you haven't even taken precal, and you think you can handle calculus? there's no way you can know.)
I plan to enter med school as a non-traditional student after my army retirement is completed(I'll be around 42 by then)knowing full well I'll have to take some extra premed classes then and there. lol, I would think this through. theres ways to integrate a career in medicine with the military http://www.armymedicine.army.mil/jobs/military-medical-training.html
I'll major in neuroscience in college with a possible double major in economics(my interest). ok buddy

Junior Year
1.AP English
2.AP American History
3.AP Chemistry 2
4.AP Physics
5.German
6.Either Algebra 2 or Trig depending on my circumstances next semester

Senior Year
1.AP English
2.AP Government and Economics(one class,2 different subjects at m school)
3.AP Biology 2
4.AP Statistics
5.German
6.Either trig or AP calculus given my circumstances my next semester.

I'd say it's pretty well off,no? no. millions of high schoolers have a far more advanced schedule than you.
Gives me some breathing room for a double major that's for damn sure. no...when you're in your junior and senior year in college, AP classes won't have that much bearing.
And this isn't even considering the possibility of me having a 7th period this year or the next 2,which could conceivably free up classes.
And also would you guys recommend me taking 3 years of German or only 2 years,thus letting me possibly take algebra 2 the same year as geometry,ending up with me being able to have calculus my senior year. You should ask your registrar if you can take German III and cal at the same time.
Thank you all for your experience and advice in advance.
honestly, posts like these is what makes everyone laugh at people in hSDN. its nice to have a dream, but its naive to plan 40 years in to the future.
 
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OP
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Nov 26, 2010
34
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Look, this is something that we cannot help you with. You need to talk to a counselor at your school (or whoever arranges your schedules) and see what they recommend you take. Everyone is different.

And really, what are you asking? To me, it sounds like you're just bragging that you're smart. Well guess what, we're all smart. Welcome to the club.
Well thank you for calling me smart.That's a compliment to me,I'm hoping.
So to further clarify my post for the rest of you,I was essentially shotgunning for information on here.That's what the internet is for after all,believe it or not.
Since the good majority of you guys are well into the beginning of your careers in medicine(residencies etc ),I was just hoping that some of you would have the inclination to think back to high school and remember about what classes you guys took then that may or may have not have been relevant to your place today.
And as you can see I already have a good roughpost of my classes and I already spoke to my counselor about this.But my counselor isn't a med student,resident,or full fledged M.D.So now.........
 
OP
H
Nov 26, 2010
34
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Couple things I'm just going to throw out here for you to seriously think about.... first, though, I do commend you on being proactive and not slacking off your junior/senior year of high school.

That said....

I honestly don't think taking that load of AP's is necessary, even if you are planning on a double major in college. I certainly would NOT count on the AP sciences counting as credit toward med school prereqs, or even towards a university science degree. You may get generic credit for those, and they may even count as science credit towards a non-science degree, but I have seen where a university did not accept AP science credit towards a sci degree.
Well the AP classes are being undertaken to help out for the general requirements of the college in question,the actual major coursework not so much.And I never actually said that I thought the AP classes would go towards premed requirements.So I apologize if it seemed that way.

And possibly the biggest "issue" I see.... why on earth would you PLAN on entering med school at 42? Especially while you're still young and in HS? There are many folks who do go to med school at that age after a first career but I doubt any of them planned for life to happen that way. Since it seems like you're interested in the military, what about being a military physician and having them pay for your schooling?
Grew up in an Asian Family.:nod::laugh:
And the fact that I don't want to be a permanent 0-3 with a dead end career being a medical specialist while earning primary care salary for 20 years straight.So you guys could understand...........imagine being a chief resident with about 1/4 more of the salary,for 20 YEARS STRAIGHT MINIMUM NO MATTER what your medical specialty was,with an EXTREMELY small chance of a real raise counting inflation every 2 years IF the branch doesn't "downsize" you because of a force reduction or because you're no longer important in their eyes(AKA if you didn't kiss the ass of the right superior officer).You could be a neurosurgeon in the service and you'd still make the same as an internist in the same position just because of your rank.And then add the 8 years of service commitment minimum if the service pays for your med school and the service clearly has the better deal.The house always wins.

I don't know, I just don't really see any valid reason why someone would purposely choose to wait 20-something years before med school. By that point you are probably going to need to do most pre-reqs over again or at least take a year to take some courses and prep for the MCAT, then 4 yrs of med school with classmates a generation younger than you, then at LEAST 3 more years of residency training.
Yep that's a non-traditional student for you.

To say that taking at least 8 years out of your life at 40 to pursue medicine is a sacrifice financially, emotionally, and physicially is IMHO an understatement.
Getting into medicine in GENERAL is a sacrifice financially,emotionally,and physically,no?Wouldn't you agree with me that having an officer pension supporting me instead of a student loan gives me more time to actually give a damn about my patients and education instead of just money haggling people or worrying about paying rent?If I wanted it any easier on my life I'd just would have gone over to the prelaw forum(though I hear law jobs are a bitch to get nowadays).
 
OP
H
Nov 26, 2010
34
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Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Wow- I wish my high school offered that many AP classes. That does look like a pretty stressful regimen of classes junior and senior year, but better than a senior slide.If you're interested in medicine, it may be a good idea to take a little bit less stressful schedule and free up time for volunteering or shadowing to see if you're interested in the profession.
I already have done some volunteering and the beginning of a shadowing at present.It'd be a bit ridiculous for me to plan out the next 20 years of my life following my Army career if I didn't know what interested me,lol.:p
 
OP
H
Nov 26, 2010
34
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Well first off, you will run into at least one scheduling problem with those classes, I can almost guarantee, so don't let that bother you much.
Take trig and then calculus if at all possible. Although you may not do well on the AP test for credit, it's still an excellent review and a leg up for entry-level calculus in college. As for the rest, as redhead512 stated, guidance counselors are there for a reason.

It looks like you want to accomplish a lot, and those classes are not impossible, but you will probably be stressed mid-way through junior year. But hey, what do I know? You are "sure" you can do it and your life is planned out, so good luck!
Here's to me not having mid-life epiphanies about how I really wanted to go to culinary school the whole time.:laugh:
Thank you for the good luck.Good luck to you too.
 

jvanewportnews

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Dec 29, 2008
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Getting into medicine in GENERAL is a sacrifice financially,emotionally,and physically,no?Wouldn't you agree with me that having an officer pension supporting me instead of a student loan gives me more time to actually give a damn about my patients and education instead of just money haggling people or worrying about paying rent?If I wanted it any easier on my life I'd just would have gone over to the prelaw forum(though I hear law jobs are a bitch to get nowadays).
http://www.med.navy.mil/sites/navmedmpte/accessions/pages/healthprofessionsscholarshipprogram_prospective.aspx
^That is a link to a program called "The Health Professions Scholarship Program". You would serve in the army after you graduate medical school, and you would probably be in your mid-30s by the time you are a truly free man. With this scholarship, there is no debt burden while you are in school since the military pays for it. Each branch of the armed forces has a program like this, and it sounds better than entering school at the age of 40 when your ability to learn massive amounts of material and retain it is likely beginning to fade.
 

nlax30

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Oct 4, 2006
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Getting into medicine in GENERAL is a sacrifice financially,emotionally,and physically,no?Wouldn't you agree with me that having an officer pension supporting me instead of a student loan gives me more time to actually give a damn about my patients and education instead of just money haggling people or worrying about paying rent?If I wanted it any easier on my life I'd just would have gone over to the prelaw forum(though I hear law jobs are a bitch to get nowadays).
No, I do no agree with you at all. There is also something called opportunity cost here, and you are trading a basically guaranteed 10-20 years of decent physician salary for a military pension because you think that would make it easier on you while you pursue medicine. That whole time you would have been making a decent salary anyway, I just don't see your logic.

Have you run this plan by any actual physicians?
 

mmmcdowe

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Coming from a family where the medical corps is a multi-generational tradition, I'd recommend doing medicine first and military second after you are finished so that they will pay for your education that way. WAY better than serving 20 years first for a pension when you can go to school for essentially free and then serve as long as you please. The fact is that there's a lot more room for advancement up the pay scale in the medical corps and you get to apply your two passions together this way. My father retired as a colonol after his 20 year stint.
 
OP
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Nov 26, 2010
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
No, I do no agree with you at all. There is also something called opportunity cost here, and you are trading a basically guaranteed 10-20 years of decent physician salary for a military pension because you think that would make it easier on you while you pursue medicine. That whole time you would have been making a decent salary anyway, I just don't see your logic.

Have you run this plan by any actual physicians?
You're assuming all I care about is the money.Let me make this clear,I want to go into medicine after my Army career because I DESIRE TO HELP PEOPLE.Hence why I'd be "waiting" 20 years to "get into" medicine.People can have inclinations to actually still do things after their retirement you know.Even if it is a retirement at 38 or 42.Hence why NON-TRADITIONAL STUDENTS exist.
And don't tell me you're really recommending being a med student living off student loans as compared to being somebody who could pay off their debt on a down payment the moment they first enter med school.

Be stressed over surviving on a day to day basis and worrying over future loan dues<focusing on actual studies and being debt-free.

And the "plan" itself was "recommended" to me by an FAO officer.The Medical Corps folks I talked to as well were okay with it too_One of them used to be a carpenter beforehand,was a non-traditional student himself got himself directly commissioned.
 
OP
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Nov 26, 2010
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Coming from a family where the medical corps is a multi-generational tradition, I'd recommend doing medicine first and military second after you are finished so that they will pay for your education that way. WAY better than serving 20 years first for a pension when you can go to school for essentially free and then serve as long as you please. The fact is that there's a lot more room for advancement up the pay scale in the medical corps and you get to apply your two passions together this way. My father retired as a colonol after his 20 year stint.
Would your residency years and/or time as an officer at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences,count towards active duty retirement years?I hear that Army residencies are far more humane and well paying anyway.Would I still be able to undertake the Early Commissioning Program and be in a Combat Arms MOS for a period of time after my bachelors?How long does the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences,recognize completion of premed requirements?Is it the standard 6 years or do they operate different?Would the MD/PHD program add additional years of service obligation after my residency?How are the general surgery/neurosurgery/neurology residencies in the Army?And are there really actual chances for promotion in the medical corps?Would my active duty years from the combat MOS service still add up all together with my active duty years accumulated?

Not to treat you like a recruiter or anything but you made me step back and think.I had earlier thrown out the Medical Corps as an option because I heard there was no chance of promotion.
 

nlax30

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You're assuming all I care about is the money.Let me make this clear,I want to go into medicine after my Army career because I DESIRE TO HELP PEOPLE.Hence why I'd be "waiting" 20 years to "get into" medicine.People can have inclinations to actually still do things after their retirement you know.Even if it is a retirement at 38 or 42.Hence why NON-TRADITIONAL STUDENTS exist.
And don't tell me you're really recommending being a med student living off student loans as compared to being somebody who could pay off their debt on a down payment the moment they first enter med school.

Be stressed over surviving on a day to day basis and worrying over future loan dues<focusing on actual studies and being debt-free.

And the "plan" itself was "recommended" to me by an FAO officer.The Medical Corps folks I talked to as well were okay with it too_One of them used to be a carpenter beforehand,was a non-traditional student himself got himself directly commissioned.
I'm not assuming anything. I am well aware that non-traditional students exist (I am one). My point is that, for the most part, these non-trad students don't initially PLAN on going into medicine late in the game or as a 2nd career, it just turns out that way.

MANY, MANY students before you do just peachy using student loans to get through med school and come out financially sound. I seriously doubt you will be come out of med school and/or residency completely debt free.

I have no doubt you want to help people. That or money really has nothing to do this. I could just as easily ask that since you want to help people why not enter med school earlier on and have many more years available to help more people? I just don't want you to be 40 and in the middle of applying to med school with regrets that you could already be well established in your career.

Do what you want though. I just encourage you to seek wise counsel from others who have been through this process before and looked at these options.

You are a junior in high school, nothing is set in stone yet. So keep in mind that over the next few years a LOT of maturing happens and you may likely changing your whole thought process on this.
 

mmmcdowe

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Would your residency years and/or time as an officer at the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences,count towards active duty retirement years?I hear that Army residencies are far more humane and well paying anyway.Would I still be able to undertake the Early Commissioning Program and be in a Combat Arms MOS for a period of time after my bachelors?How long does the Uniformed Services University of the Health Sciences,recognize completion of premed requirements?Is it the standard 6 years or do they operate different?Would the MD/PHD program add additional years of service obligation after my residency?How are the general surgery/neurosurgery/neurology residencies in the Army?And are there really actual chances for promotion in the medical corps?Would my active duty years from the combat MOS service still add up all together with my active duty years accumulated?

Not to treat you like a recruiter or anything but you made me step back and think.I had earlier thrown out the Medical Corps as an option because I heard there was no chance of promotion.
I wasn't referring to going to the USUHS for medical school. The military offers a scholarship to any medical student at any school. I believe the stipulation is 6 years of service for 4 years of aid. If you are doing MD/PhD I would just enlist after you finish your PhD. Yes, you lose officer pay and privileges for those years, but frankly the loss of freedom and the additional duties really aren't worth it. Military surgery residencies are just fine, but there isn't anything stopping you from doing a civilian residency either (I'm not sure if this holds if you go to USUHS, I don't really know anything of it). Think of it as an additional advantage because you have more residencies to apply into. As far as promotion, there is a great deal of opportunity for promotion. At the very least, you start out as an officer. Further, the scarcity of medical doctors going into the military is to your advantage if you want to stay on for a full 20 years. The only exception is if you are trying to go beyond Colonel or perhaps Brig General. Frankly, if you are just gunning for 20 years that's probably not a huge concern. As I said my dad did his 20 and retired, but he was also in the reserves for a lot of that.
 

chinocochino

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Sep 12, 2009
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You'll accrue much more wealth going to a reasonably-priced med school (25,30,35 thousand a year for tuition) and taking the loans than the heavy reduced salaries of the military doctors that heavily outweigh the lack of debt that they have.

Our HS had weight-training, team sports, and individual sports. Those classes were pretty tight.

Well the AP classes are being undertaken to help out for the general requirements of the college in question,the actual major coursework not so much.And I never actually said that I thought the AP classes would go towards premed requirements.So I apologize if it seemed that way.

Grew up in an Asian Family.:nod::laugh:
And the fact that I don't want to be a permanent 0-3 with a dead end career being a medical specialist while earning primary care salary for 20 years straight.So you guys could understand...........imagine being a chief resident with about 1/4 more of the salary,for 20 YEARS STRAIGHT MINIMUM NO MATTER what your medical specialty was,with an EXTREMELY small chance of a real raise counting inflation every 2 years IF the branch doesn't "downsize" you because of a force reduction or because you're no longer important in their eyes(AKA if you didn't kiss the ass of the right superior officer).You could be a neurosurgeon in the service and you'd still make the same as an internist in the same position just because of your rank.And then add the 8 years of service commitment minimum if the service pays for your med school and the service clearly has the better deal.The house always wins.

Yep that's a non-traditional student for you.

Getting into medicine in GENERAL is a sacrifice financially,emotionally,and physically,no?Wouldn't you agree with me that having an officer pension supporting me instead of a student loan gives me more time to actually give a damn about my patients and education instead of just money haggling people or worrying about paying rent?If I wanted it any easier on my life I'd just would have gone over to the prelaw forum(though I hear law jobs are a bitch to get nowadays).
 

chinocochino

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Crunch the numbers (I certainly have) and see how bad this "loan crisis" really is. Debt is highly emotional. Its not that bad when you are making 250,000 gross in many medical specialties. Check out the benefits (which are substantial) that the HPSP and FAP scholarships offer and weigh the disadvantages that the service obligation stipulates.

The idea is not to avoid debt or to make a lot of money, but to generate net worth. If you hypothetically could do a 10 educational track that would pay you 200,000 gross at the end or a 4 year educational track that would pay you 199,000 gross, which would you pick? I'm assuming that the tuition levels are a wash. Opportunity cost, time-value of money, etc that so many people don't understand.


You're assuming all I care about is the money.Let me make this clear,I want to go into medicine after my Army career because I DESIRE TO HELP PEOPLE.Hence why I'd be "waiting" 20 years to "get into" medicine.People can have inclinations to actually still do things after their retirement you know.Even if it is a retirement at 38 or 42.Hence why NON-TRADITIONAL STUDENTS exist.
And don't tell me you're really recommending being a med student living off student loans as compared to being somebody who could pay off their debt on a down payment the moment they first enter med school.

Be stressed over surviving on a day to day basis and worrying over future loan dues<focusing on actual studies and being debt-free.

And the "plan" itself was "recommended" to me by an FAO officer.The Medical Corps folks I talked to as well were okay with it too_One of them used to be a carpenter beforehand,was a non-traditional student himself got himself directly commissioned.
 
OP
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Nov 26, 2010
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Crunch the numbers (I certainly have) and see how bad this "loan crisis" really is. Debt is highly emotional. Its not that bad when you are making 250,000 gross in many medical specialties. Check out the benefits (which are substantial) that the HPSP and FAP scholarships offer and weigh the disadvantages that the service obligation stipulates.

The idea is not to avoid debt or to make a lot of money, but to generate net worth. If you hypothetically could do a 10 educational track that would pay you 200,000 gross at the end or a 4 year educational track that would pay you 199,000 gross, which would you pick? I'm assuming that the tuition levels are a wash. Opportunity cost, time-value of money, etc that so many people don't understand.
So it would be better for me to do a HPSP scholarship then?Your 2 posts of advice to me need to be clarified I think.Oh and would the HPSP cover my med school years in a b.s. m.d program?I already shot the army an e-mail on this but the HPSP pdf doesn't say for certain.
 
OP
H
Nov 26, 2010
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Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
You'll accrue much more wealth going to a reasonably-priced med school (25,30,35 thousand a year for tuition) and taking the loans than the heavy reduced salaries of the military doctors that heavily outweigh the lack of debt that they have.

Our HS had weight-training, team sports, and individual sports. Those classes were pretty tight.
And also I plan to get into a surgical or at the very least interventional specialty of medicine.So my major concern is time in my career not so much money haggling.You wouldn't be able to give me age estimates would you?
 

chinocochino

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No. It would be better to take the loans and NOT do HPSP or FAP. Have you looked at the stipulations that the programs imply and how much a military doc makes in comparison to their civilian counterpart? Bust out an Excel spreadsheet and do the comparison.

So it would be better for me to do a HPSP scholarship then?Your 2 posts of advice to me need to be clarified I think.Oh and would the HPSP cover my med school years in a b.s. m.d program?I already shot the army an e-mail on this but the HPSP pdf doesn't say for certain.
 

chinocochino

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Dude, the information is on the internet.

Age finishing college: 22
Age finishing med school: 26
Age finishing residency: 29-33 depending on specialty
Age finishing fellowship: variable, but usually 1 year.

HPSP and FAP are actually much better financial options if you are dead set into doing a lower-paying specialty like family medicine or pediatrics, but you shouldn't do it for the money. It has other restraints (or opportunities, depending on your perspective) on your lifestyle.

And also I plan to get into a surgical or at the very least interventional specialty of medicine.So my major concern is time in my career not so much money haggling.You wouldn't be able to give me age estimates would you?
 
OP
H
Nov 26, 2010
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Dude, the information is on the internet.

Age finishing college: 22
Age finishing med school: 26
Age finishing residency: 29-33 depending on specialty
Age finishing fellowship: variable, but usually 1 year.

HPSP and FAP are actually much better financial options if you are dead set into doing a lower-paying specialty like family medicine or pediatrics, but you shouldn't do it for the money. It has other restraints (or opportunities, depending on your perspective) on your lifestyle.
Yes "dude" the information is on the internet.And I already got it.lThe entire gist of all your posts seems to be that "oh well,you'll be making a couple hundred thousand less a year" if you pursue military medicine..It's money haggling.I don't wish to go into medicine for the sake of being able to say that I have an even larger supply of money tanked away than my neighbor.There are those of us who actually want to help people who deserve it most(veterans) what with the chronic supply of us helping that demographic.Hence why military physicians exist.
 
OP
H
Nov 26, 2010
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Dude, the information is on the internet.

Age finishing college: 22
Age finishing med school: 26
Age finishing residency: 29-33 depending on specialty
Age finishing fellowship: variable, but usually 1 year.

HPSP and FAP are actually much better financial options if you are dead set into doing a lower-paying specialty like family medicine or pediatrics, but you shouldn't do it for the money. It has other restraints (or opportunities, depending on your perspective) on your lifestyle.
I was assuming you had actual experience with regards to the HPSP and FAP so you'd know whether or not the residency years would necessarily add to my service obligation.I assumed wrong.
 
Aug 13, 2010
25
0
Status
Pre-Medical
I was assuming you had actual experience with regards to the HPSP and FAP so you'd know whether or not the residency years would necessarily add to my service obligation.I assumed wrong.

Wow. Seriously, can you get any more full of yourself? I'm afraid if you go on this path your head won't fit through the door in your college dorm room.

You're being terribly rude to those people who are actually trying to help you.
 

chinocochino

7+ Year Member
Sep 12, 2009
913
10
Status
Resident [Any Field]
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be a jerk. The tone of the posts could have been more friendly; I apologize.

Why would you want to make less money? You will most likely have children to support and, if you wife doesn't work, you will be the only person making a living. You have to fund your own retirement and take care of your own needs as well as helping patients.

How sure are you that you want to go into the military? Do you have family members in the army, navy, air force? Why not go to med school and take out loans and do something like the national guard. They have great loan-repayment terms and you would be getting your "feet wet" and seeing if you really like the military lifestyle. Why don't you ask in the military forum for their input.

Also, one doesn't have to take the HPSP or FAP to be knowledgeable about them.

Finally, a "couple of hundred thousand" of dollars a year is a BIG deal. Money doesn't grow on trees. The more money you have, the more people you can help out. Why, what happens if you have a grandchild that got into their dream university but can't pay for it? If you have the financial means, you can help them out. What about donating money to people that need it most? Without money, you are really restricted in how you can help.

Finally, I'll bet that your idealistic tone changes once you get more experience.

Yes "dude" the information is on the internet.And I already got it.lThe entire gist of all your posts seems to be that "oh well,you'll be making a couple hundred thousand less a year" if you pursue military medicine..It's money haggling.I don't wish to go into medicine for the sake of being able to say that I have an even larger supply of money tanked away than my neighbor.There are those of us who actually want to help people who deserve it most(veterans) what with the chronic supply of us helping that demographic.Hence why military physicians exist.
 
OP
H
Nov 26, 2010
34
0
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be a jerk. The tone of the posts could have been more friendly; I apologize.
It's alright.I apologize as well,this forum really IS full of asshats and trolls though(and yes this forum has a reputation:laugh:)
Why would you want to make less money? You will most likely have children to support and, if you wife doesn't work, you will be the only person making a living. You have to fund your own retirement and take care of your own needs as well as helping patients.
It's not a false dichotomy of making money or not making money,it's understanding that the army has more than enough perks,benefits,and stipends to cover the lost margins from doing a career in military medicine .This isn't even taking into consideration the retirement,ranks,positions,non-medical training,and PAID FOR MALPRACTICE INSURANCE the service provides for you.
How sure are you that you want to go into the military? Do you have family members in the army, navy, air force? Why not go to med school and take out loans and do something like the national guard. They have great loan-repayment terms and you would be getting your "feet wet" and seeing if you really like the military lifestyle. Why don't you ask in the military forum for their input.
So let me get this straight,you'd rather have me go cock-sure into a civilian med school than even consider (without you attempting to have me doublethink online) a career in the military?I detect me a bias.Why not ask me about how sure I am in pursuing a career in medicine?More people die in car accidents here in the states,than in combat fatalities overseas,you know........
And that's not taking into consideration that maybe I'd want some NON-MEDICAL work on me for the first couple of enlistments I'm in the service.There's nothing wrong in volunteering against fascism(politics be damned).


Also, one doesn't have to take the HPSP or FAP to be knowledgeable about them.
If Goarmy.com's AMEDD support server has been down for the last 2 days then it would have been helpful to ME if you had taken them.:laugh:Especially if one's not too sure about extra service obligation years due to residencies,civilian or otherwise(which is why I asked you about the age estimate,sorry you misunderstood that as laziness)

Finally, a "couple of hundred thousand" of dollars a year is a BIG deal. Money doesn't grow on trees. The more money you have, the more people you can help out. Why, what happens if you have a grandchild that got into their dream university but can't pay for it? If you have the financial means, you can help them out. What about donating money to people that need it most? Without money, you are really restricted in how you can help.
Money doesn't grow on trees?Tell that to the Federal Reserve.But seriously I could just give my child their benefits that the GI bill allows.And you're not really saying that direct assistance is even comparable to money donations are you?I am joining one of the world's biggest charitable orgnaizations,if you think about it.


Finally, I'll bet that your idealistic tone changes once you get more experience.
No it won't.It will only get more consolidated.And I apologize that you don't know me enough to know that.It's not like the enemy's idealistic tone is fading away,they have God on their side after all.I hope you understand my point of view.
 
OP
H
Nov 26, 2010
34
0
Status
Pre-Health (Field Undecided)
Wow. Seriously, can you get any more full of yourself? I'm afraid if you go on this path your head won't fit through the door in your college dorm room.

You're being terribly rude to those people who are actually trying to help you.
I'm sorry if it seems I'm rude.If it makes you feel any better,I think redheads are pretty cute:laugh:
 

Badger MD

Distance Running Addict
5+ Year Member
Aug 20, 2010
99
0
Status
Pre-Medical
You're assuming all I care about is the money.Let me make this clear,I want to go into medicine after my Army career because I DESIRE TO HELP PEOPLE.Hence why I'd be "waiting" 20 years to "get into" medicine.People can have inclinations to actually still do things after their retirement you know.Even if it is a retirement at 38 or 42.Hence why NON-TRADITIONAL STUDENTS exist.
And don't tell me you're really recommending being a med student living off student loans as compared to being somebody who could pay off their debt on a down payment the moment they first enter med school.

Be stressed over surviving on a day to day basis and worrying over future loan dues<focusing on actual studies and being debt-free.

And the "plan" itself was "recommended" to me by an FAO officer.The Medical Corps folks I talked to as well were okay with it too_One of them used to be a carpenter beforehand,was a non-traditional student himself got himself directly commissioned.
Yes that is true, but I don't think anyone plans on being a nontraditional student while they are still in high school.
 

chinocochino

7+ Year Member
Sep 12, 2009
913
10
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Military doctors discussing their professional lives...

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=324400

Financial analysis of the Health Professions Scholarship Program


http://halfmd.wordpress.com/2007/03/23/financial-analysis-of-the-health-professions-scholarship-program/

The salary surveys that you see online are AFTER malpractice insurance has been paid.

Why focus on a small aspect of the financial equation when you could look at the big picture? I think its most intelligent (and I believe most would agree with me) to calculate how much money you are gaining or losing with the military and then see if the "warm, fuzzy feelings" you get for treating soldiers is worth the difference.

Working a job that pays 40 or 50 thousand a year so you can have no debt entering med school is so foolish it makes me laugh. Each year that you delay getting into med school, tuition rises at much more than the rate of inflation. More importantly, you lose a year of attending salary.

So, you gain 40 or 50 thousand a year but lose about 200-400,000 a year. If you are doing it to see the world or for non-financial reasons, then go ahead.

I'll stop posting here; it doesn't seem to be helping anybody.

It's alright.I apologize as well,this forum really IS full of asshats and trolls though(and yes this forum has a reputation:laugh:)
It's not a false dichotomy of making money or not making money,it's understanding that the army has more than enough perks,benefits,and stipends to cover the lost margins from doing a career in military medicine .This isn't even taking into consideration the retirement,ranks,positions,non-medical training,and PAID FOR MALPRACTICE INSURANCE the service provides for you.
So let me get this straight,you'd rather have me go cock-sure into a civilian med school than even consider (without you attempting to have me doublethink online) a career in the military?I detect me a bias.Why not ask me about how sure I am in pursuing a career in medicine?More people die in car accidents here in the states,than in combat fatalities overseas,you know........
And that's not taking into consideration that maybe I'd want some NON-MEDICAL work on me for the first couple of enlistments I'm in the service.There's nothing wrong in volunteering against fascism(politics be damned).


If Goarmy.com's AMEDD support server has been down for the last 2 days then it would have been helpful to ME if you had taken them.:laugh:Especially if one's not too sure about extra service obligation years due to residencies,civilian or otherwise(which is why I asked you about the age estimate,sorry you misunderstood that as laziness)

Money doesn't grow on trees?Tell that to the Federal Reserve.But seriously I could just give my child their benefits that the GI bill allows.And you're not really saying that direct assistance is even comparable to money donations are you?I am joining one of the world's biggest charitable orgnaizations,if you think about it.


No it won't.It will only get more consolidated.And I apologize that you don't know me enough to know that.It's not like the enemy's idealistic tone is fading away,they have God on their side after all.I hope you understand my point of view.
 
Aug 13, 2010
25
0
Status
Pre-Medical
Is it possible to delete these texts? I misunderstood and now i feel like a fool because i'm trying to delete and i can't find any delete button!
 
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