So why are non of you..

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fahimaz7

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Headed to a 2 year regular masters program? They give stipends, pay your tuition, medical insurance, etc. and you will head to a much better medical school than you would have w/o the masters. Just a thought.

I'm getting 19k/year stipend, 15k tuition payed for/year, and I'll end up with a masters in cellular/molecular biology.

Scott
 
fahimaz7 said:
Headed to a 2 year regular masters program? They give stipends, pay your tuition, medical insurance, etc. and you will head to a much better medical school than you would have w/o the masters. Just a thought.

I'm getting 19k/year stipend, 15k tuition payed for/year, and I'll end up with a masters in cellular/molecular biology.

Scott

Because I (personally) already have a master's degree. Also because most people need to take their pre-medical requirements at an undergraduate level to factor into their undergraduate GPA, which is not the case for graduate level programs.
 
fahimaz7 said:
I'm getting 19k/year stipend, 15k tuition payed for/year, and I'll end up with a masters in cellular/molecular biology.

That's a pretty sweet deal. 👍 To my knowledge, most grad schools only give that kind dough to PhD candidates. I'm getting a master's in bio & my TA stipend barely covers my tution.
Although an MS in bio is good relevant learning, I think SMP type programs are more focused & therefore better preparation.
But sweet deal still.
 
Is it possible to go for a Master's in science when one has no previous science background?
 
fahimaz7 said:
Headed to a 2 year regular masters program? They give stipends, pay your tuition, medical insurance, etc. and you will head to a much better medical school than you would have w/o the masters. Just a thought.

I'm getting 19k/year stipend, 15k tuition payed for/year, and I'll end up with a masters in cellular/molecular biology.

Scott

In addition to what others have said - I have also been told that medical schools do not look as favorably on grades from general Masters programs.

Also, for me, it was the choice of do I want to wait two years or one year. I am not old, by any stretch, but I am far along enough in life that I would like to get started on my Medical career sooner than later.

Fact is, once I am practicing, I will make enough money that I will not be concerned about an additional expense at this end.
 
Love2Learn said:
Is it possible to go for a Master's in science when one has no previous science background?

A goood friend of mine returned to school years ago for his Masters in Cellular Bio. He had a Bachelors in Business. He and I wound up taking many of the same undergrad classes together.

It is certainly possible to do, but likely you will wind up either having to, or wanting to, take all the undergrad prereqs anyway, so that you will have the background you need for your grad courses.

Out of curiosity, why do you ask?
 
Scott,

Congrats on your acceptance into the graduate program!

I typed up a really long response to your question, but I figured I should ask you something first. What are you comparing the traditional MS program to? If you're stating that the traditional MS is more favorable than the special masters route for gaining admission into med school, I'll post why I'm inclined to argue that the SMP is a better route. If you're simply saying that the traditional MS is another good option for improving credentials to get into med school, I can agree with that. 😉
 
fahimaz7 said:
Headed to a 2 year regular masters program? They give stipends, pay your tuition,
 
jackbnimble said:
Simply, or maybe not, because it makes it much easier for an adcom to judge one's ability to persevere med school courses if they have taken.....med school courses.

For instance, St.Louis U can look at Georgetown Med courses (taken by an SMP student) and make a fairly direct (and accurate) comparison about how she will do in med school at SLU. While many MS programs in Molec Bio, etc. are comparably rigorous they are not so readily comparable...

Just an opinion,
Jackb

Right, and I heard MD>DO, etc. Lets not undermind the work of students who already have a Master's degree by casting your opinion as law in the minds of adcoms. That is, unless you serve on one. Stick to the facts when giving advice.
😡
 
Sundarban1 said:
Right, and I heard MD>DO, etc. Lets not undermind the work of students who already have a Master's degree by casting your opinion as law in the minds of adcoms. That is, unless you serve on one. Stick to the facts when giving advice.
😡

Simmer down, the previous post said that a Masters is different, not worse than a SMP. All that was said was that it was simpler to project the applicants success in one type of classes, i.e. med school classes, if the applicant has a track record with those classes.

The arguement was that it is easier to compare apples to apples, rather than to oranges. No one said SMP>MS, just that it was easier to relate MD classes to SMP classes. From what I have seen both are good preparation continuing scientific learning.
 
jackbnimble said:
A, nothing was stated as fact.

Thats what I said, stick to the facts when giving advice (i.e. do you have proof that 2-years masters are more favorable to adcoms than other science degrees?)

B, what do you dispute?

I dispute your comment that 2-year degrees are more favorable to adcoms than regular Master's degrees, and that they are a better indicator of how you will do in medical school to admissons committees.
 
Sundarban1 said:
Thats what I said, stick to the facts when giving advice (i.e. do you have proof that 2-years masters are more favorable to adcoms than other science degrees?)



I dispute your comment that 2-year degrees are more favorable to adcoms than regular Master's degrees, and that they are a better indicator of how you will do in medical school to admissons committees.


I just talked to the director of admissions of a medical school today asking what to do if I have to take a year off and was told to look into masters programs. I presented the same question traditional masters vs. SMP and was told this particular school was more interested in SMP.

Just as jackb said, it is a way for schools to gauge your ability to succeed in medical school. Apparently there is a big difference between medical and graduate curriculum. Not in difficulty, just in volume of information, med schools want to know you can handle the courseload and it is harder to make that assumption with a traditional masters degree.
 
imrep1972 said:
A goood friend of mine returned to school years ago for his Masters in Cellular Bio. He had a Bachelors in Business. He and I wound up taking many of the same undergrad classes together.

It is certainly possible to do, but likely you will wind up either having to, or wanting to, take all the undergrad prereqs anyway, so that you will have the background you need for your grad courses.

Out of curiosity, why do you ask?


interesting....where was this if you dont mind my asking?
 
What master's program is not charging tuition? I have never heard of this and I went through the PhD route. ?????
 
one thing that can be said about programs like the ones at georgtown, BU ect is that adcoms are familiar w/ them. moreso than the thousands of other science masters degree programs out there.
i had a similar option - get paid to do a masters or fork over $50K, i have no doubt i made the right decision.. .I knew when it came time to send out aplications, i was going to need every advantage i could get and a free masters degree would have been a waste of two years, b/c in my case it wouldnt get me accepted. afterall when all said and done undergrad + medschool = $250k whats another $50
 
I live in Georgia and after posting a 3.2+ GPA with a 30 MCAT I was turned down to all my schools. So, I had a post-rejection followup intereview with the Deans at each of the schools and asked them what I should do to be a more "competitive" canidate.

I said hey, would a one year SMP do the trick? He said "maybe"

What about a full on 2 year masters in science with classes that are relivant to the work in medical school (my particular program has a cell class, 2 biochem classes, and electives of my choice like immunology and embryology).

He said that would defiently do the job and that he would reccommend that program over the SMP.

"Do good in the masters program (3.5) and you'll defiently be highly competitive"

My package covers my tuition (15k out of state) and pays $1500/month for the two years that I'll be at the school.

Sweet.

Scott
 
fahimaz7 said:
I live in Georgia and after posting a 3.2+ GPA with a 30 MCAT I was turned down to all my schools. So, I had a post-rejection followup intereview with the Deans at each of the schools and asked them what I should do to be a more "competitive" canidate.

I said hey, would a one year SMP do the trick? He said "maybe"

What about a full on 2 year masters in science with classes that are relivant to the work in medical school (my particular program has a cell class, 2 biochem classes, and electives of my choice like immunology and embryology).

He said that would defiently do the job and that he would reccommend that program over the SMP.

"Do good in the masters program (3.5) and you'll defiently be highly competitive"

My package covers my tuition (15k out of state) and pays $1500/month for the two years that I'll be at the school.

Sweet.

Scott
It's not quite that simple, Scott. What you have posted is the response from the dean of one medical school. If this is the medical school you're hoping to get into, then it would be wise to take this dean's advice. But there will be great variability in responses if you ask many different deans from different medical schools. In my inquiries about medical school admissions, I know some medical schools look very favorably on SMPs such as the Georgetown SMP. You might also want to clarify whether the dean meant finishing the two-year traditional MS and then applying or whether he meant doing one year and applying while you're completing your second year. I think there's a big difference here (18-21 credits vs. 30-36 credits, working on thesis vs. finished laboratory peer-reviewed thesis, etc.).

Special masters programs are not necessarily the best option for those wishing to enhance their credentials, but there are major advantages of these programs that should not be overlooked.

The one vs. two year issue: In your case, your GPA is a little low, so it makes sense to have at least one year of additional coursework (from your traditional MS program) on your academic record. However, let's say a person has a 3.4 cume, 3.3 science, 32 MCAT and got on nothing but waitlists. If this person just needs a little extra bump to get into med school for the following year, then the SMP is the better choice. Why? Because if he gets in with the SMP, then he can start one year after graduating from his undergrad. If he did a two-year traditional MS program, it would be at least two years after graduating from his undergrad. The SMP is advantageous in this respect. And for many people, time is a major factor.

Rigor of curriculum: In traditional MS programs, coursework is more diffuse. Traditional MS programs spread 30-36 credits of coursework and research over two years. Special masters programs typically include 30-48 credits in two semesters. In the traditional MS programs in my state, you only do about 20 credits (some research, some coursework) in the first year.

Med school simulation vs. Research: Special masters programs are designed to simulate the rigorous pre-clinical years of medical school. Because these are accelerated, coursework-based programs with medical school courses (with possible labs in histology, anatomy, etc.), the programs provide a way to prove you can handle med school. In research-based, traditional MS programs you take less coursework and more research credits and the curriculum is much more spread out. There are advantages in having a more research-based program, but in comparison to a special masters program, the curriculum of a traditional MS is less similar to a year in medical school.

For those who are looking to gain research experience and prove they can succeed in med school, there are special masters programs at UMDNJ and BU that offer these opportunities. The Drexel IMS-MMS sequence also provides these opportunities. VCU's pre-health certificate also includes one year of rigorous coursework with the option of staying an additional year to do a lab thesis and earn a master's.

Graduate school vs. Medical school courses: This isn't true for all graduate schools, but many graduate schools give easy As for research credits. Essentially the traditional MS students are paid to help the professors with research (hence, the stipend). It's unlikely that you're gonna get a C in your lab rotations and thesis research credits unless you do a really crappy job. Also, many graduate schools are more lenient with grades than medical schools. Fair or not, members of adcoms may hold this bias.

Traditional MS student vs. SMP student after one-year: This is why I think it's important to clarify whether or not the dean was saying that you would be highly competitive after one year or after completing the program. If you applied after one year with a good GPA (3.6) in a traditional MS program, but with only 18-24 credits and without a completed laboratory thesis, do you think that's a more convincing applicant profile than a person who goes to an SMP like Georgetown's with 34 credits in one year, of which 23 are from medical school courses, and gets a 3.6 (all else being equal)? I don't see why the former would be more attractive as an applicant after just one year. After two years (finishing the MS program), I think you could make a strong argument that the traditional MS may be more attractive to med schools, but not after one.

Research-heavy vs. non-thesis: Many premeds do not have much laboratory research experience. For those without much experience, the thought of doing a research-heavy program could be intimidating and gaining admission to research-heavy programs could be difficult. I know some traditional MS programs don't require that you even have research experience, but many do. Other premeds have enough laboratory research experience, but don't find lab research enjoyable. These people may not be willing to do a traditional, research-based MS program

Linkage: Another major factor in opting for special masters/certificate programs is that some of these programs are feeders into medical schools. For example, Rosalind Franklin, Georgetown, and Boston University all accept many of their SMP students into their medical schools each year.

A good performance in a traditional MS program will not always earn an acceptance: there is a guy on SDN with a 38 MCAT, sub-3.0 undergrad GPA, 3.5 graduate GPA in a traditional MS program (Exercise Physiology/Immunology). He received no acceptances this year. At his particular state school, graduate GPA (SMP or traditional MS) doesn't play much of a role in admissions and he received no interviews from any other medical school. I won't post his SDN screen name, but it's not too hard to find his profile on MDapplicants. This doesn't necessarily mean that SMP > traditional MS, but it does illustrate that a 3.5 graduate GPA in a traditional MS program wasn't enough to make him highly competive at his state school or any of the other med schools that he applied to.

Some programs offer a little bit of both: The only traditional MS program that I think offers similar opportunities to the special masters programs is the MS in Biomedical Sciences at Creighton. You can also get the benefits you mention (full tuition remission and a stipend if you do a good amount of research) and you can also take courses with Creighton's med students. The downside is that if you're doing that research to get full tuition remission and the stipend, then you can't take as many credits. I've been in contact with one person in this program and even with his 3.9+ graduate GPA, 33 MCAT (if I remember correctly), strong research experience (including extensive research as a biochem major when he was at his undergrad), diverse experiences (research in foreign countries), significant clinical experience, and a strong personal statement, he hasn't received any acceptances--at least not since I last got in contract with him. I'm not using this anecdote to argue that SMPs are better than traditional MS programs, but what is clear is that the traditional MS is not necessarily compelling enough to be a sure-shot for med school admissions at some medical schools.

Traditional MS programs do have some advantages over an SMP: Traditional MS programs have the advantages of tuition-remission, stipend, extensive research experience, health insurance and other benefits. If money is a major and immediate issue, the traditional MS is the route to take. However, as imrep points out, once you're a physician you shouldn't have too much trouble paying back the loans (this is why I say, "immediate issue.").

Take home message: For improving academic credentials, some adcoms will suggest improving your undergraduate GPA by taking undergraduate courses after graduating (in which case special masters or traditional masters programs aren't very helpful), some adcoms will suggest an SMP, some adcoms will suggest a traditional MS. The point is that you cannot simply imply that the traditional MS is the best way to enhance one's academic credentials to get into med school. However, traditional MS programs should definitely be taken into consideration for those looking to enhance their credentials to gain admission to med school and these programs provide many benefits.
 
I agree with the OP 🙂 I am going to graduate in 2.5 or 3 years with my bachelors this December or next May. I would like a little boost to my grades, but really just intended to take off a year between med school and undergrad... I was thinking of sub teaching at the local high school. Then it's flipped into a 3 year teaching program where you're a full-fledged teacher (you earn your teaching credentials at the end of 3 years of teaching) and they pay for your masters at the local university. They dropped (possibly, it may still be in effect, it's up before the state legislature for funding last time I checked) the free masters component. But I think I'd go nuts woithout being in school and doing something productive for myself those 3 years I'm teaching.

So... I'm going for my masters of public health during that 3 year time period. I spoke with my hookup at Hopkins... and the response was they could care less if you do a special masters program or traditional program. They want people who did it for themselves, something they would enjoy and be happy with over something that was forced. I'm doing it to better myself, and for no other reason. They don't want people who are thinking "will this impress so and so?" but instead "what is the value of this to me--nobody else, but to me?"

I also personally cannot fathom spending money on a post-bac. But don't jump on me--that's just my opinion. My money, my opinion. Your money, your opinion 😉 Spend as you wish. With my masters, I recieved tuition remission, as well as a stipend (I believe it's around $15k)--but I have to work for the university (ie TA; however, at the masters level some departments actually have you teach the intro health courses on your own instead of TAing). I also recieve reimbursement up to $2k per year for out-of-pocket expenses related to furthering my education from the county I will teach for. Add on that a full-salary and benefits with teaching ($40k)... i've got a good deal 😉

Plus, if I teach for 3 years, I can take 3 years or 2 or however long I feel in that time to complete my masters 🙂

-Liz
 
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