So you were right

[thenursingstudent]

I obtained my BSN because I didn't have enough confidence in myself to pursue pre-med. I also love the patient care side of nursing, like I did while I worked as a patient care tech through nursing school. I read so much about nurse practitioners. I didn't want to believe what I read about their subpar education and schools churning out NPs without really caring. 100% acceptance rates in many NP programs ok, yes I saw that. I chose a school, the University of Alabama at Birmingham for my NP program because it is in part taught by physicians, and has an excellent reputation in the medical and nursing fields and doesn't have that 100% acceptance rate. After my first semester of advanced pathophysiology and leadership, I am disappointed. First of all, advanced patho was basically what I learned in my undergrad nursing patho. Actually it WAS what I learned, I'd just forgotten some things. I aced every exam. Feeling proud of myself, I accessed free USMLE step 1 practice questions at the UAB online library. I could only answer about 25% of the patho questions. That was disappointing. I honestly now feel like I wasted time and money, and not only because of those questions, but what are we being prepared in? I'm told by others in the program these classes "don't even matter" since we'll "learn on the job anyway." Are these just BS classes? I don't know. I know that in July when first year medical residents come on the unit where I work as a nurse, they too are learning on the job, but they have the background info to make sense of what they're learning and transition into practice.

I appreciate anyone who has read this far, please bear with me. If I earn my nurse practitioner, I do not want full authority practice, I never did. So maybe it is wrong of me to think I'd be getting a better education, one equal to first year medical students....but after all, I thought, they are cramming my NP education into 2-3 years. They (institutions of learning) are expecting NP students to have knowledge from our nursing careers and undergrad education. So I thought they'd pick up from there. But UAB is ranked in the top 5 by US and news for NP programs (mine is pediatrics). How is it subpar??!! How is my education not better? (TO BE FAIR - I only have about 1 year of RN experience..maybe they think we don't need more education than what they're giving us but there was no number of years required as a nurse to be in the program)

Ok so I thought to myself, well I'll just access the online library more, get more books to study from that medical schools use. I have the USMLE books. I'll study more.

Then I thought why don't I quit now and pursue medicine. I could quit my job as a nurse, and get a job as a medical scribe so I can build rapports with physicians. In that time, I can also take the prerequisites I need and volunteer. Then in maybe 1-2 years, I could apply to medical school. The downside is that it is giving up a lot given I might not even get accepted into a medical school because of what would become my track record of quitting (quitting my good RN job and NP school) or I might not get accepted for any reason. I see acceptance rates of med schools and odds aren't in my favor and I don't want a Caribbean school because I've read they're not good...so I'm better off sticking to my NP education then.

Maybe I'm just not being fair by judging my program this harshly and it's about self-study anywhere I'm at. I do have a lot of desire to become a physician, this is the path I chose though and where I'm at..

Can anyone give me your thoughts and suggestions please? I would appreciate it. Thank you.

EDIT: Just wanted to add. I have an excellent undergrad record. I took non-nursing bio classes and did research. I have a 3.9 cumulative GPA. I basically didn't listen to what I read, and went for my NP thinking it would be good enough and maybe it would be, I've only had one semester. Also, becoming a medical scribe is a huge paycut, it would pay less than I made as a tech. I would move back home. My mom does not support that I want to be a physician, but she'll let me because I help her out. Should I just call this a pipe dream and give it up? Stick to where I am, try to be a good NP.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

So maybe it is wrong of me to think I'd be getting a better education, one equal to first year medical students....

Yes it was wrong to think that. If you want an education equal to a medical student you need to be in medical school.

Then I thought why don't I quit now and pursue medicine. I could quit my job as a nurse, and get a job as a medical scribe so I can build rapports with physicians. In that time, I can also take the prerequisites I need and volunteer. Then in maybe 1-2 years, I could apply to medical school. The downside is that it is giving up a lot given I might not even get accepted into a medical school because of what would become my track record of quitting (quitting my good RN job and NP school) or I might not get accepted for any reason. I see acceptance rates of med schools and odds aren't in my favor and I don't want a Caribbean school because I've read they're not good...so I'm better off sticking to my NP education then.

You need to decide if you are ok being a mid-level or not. If you are ok with never being the person in the room with the highest level of knowledge, or the one making the critical decisions, then I would just stick out the NP program. You already recognizing the serious limitations of your education will actually be a huge boon to you, because you'll be acutely aware of what you know and don't know, I.e. understanding your limitations. This is a trait the best mid-levels have. A good mid-level who knows their role and performs it well is very valuable.

If you decide you really do want that higher level of knowledge and decide to pursue medicine first we need to know what your stats are. I would drop out of the NP program but wouldn't quite your RN job. I would go back to school for the pre-reqs while working as a nurse. It would be pretty easy to explain in an interview that you dropped out of the NP program because you realized you really wanted to be a doctor so you kept working at a well paying job that gave you great clinical exposure while you did your pre-reqs. As a nurse it would be easy to make connections with doctors to shadow.

But again, give us some stats and maybe we can give more pointed advice.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@thenursingstudent NP programs are designed to credential you, not necessarily educate you on what you need to know as an NP. There are so many different specialties that you can go into as a mid-level that most NP educators are woefully unequipped to attempt to make even a college try at attempting to pretend they know what they are teaching when it comes to the material. Even medical students aren't necessarily taught how to succeed on Step 1, most of them form their own study routine using three or four independent resources and dedicate themselves to their own process to internalize the information. Relying on school or school lectures for learning falls into the passive learning category, however going out and codifying your own format to remember information is what you should be doing in order to make sure you retain information in the long term.

 

[nimbus]

I wouldn’t give up a nursing job to work as a scribe. You get better patient care experience and more meaningful interactions with physicians as a nurse. Why not continue working as a nurse while doing your prereqs, take the MCAT, then go from there.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Even medical students aren't necessarily taught how to succeed on Step 1, most of them form their own study routine using three or four independent resources and dedicate themselves to their own process to internalize the information.

While many (most?) med students use these outside resources, they are definitely not required to pass step. No one wants to just pass step because your score is a huge part of your competitiveness. But just from my school, our school resources are enough to make sure you won’t fail step. If an NP program was really on par with med school, its grads should be able to at least pass step.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

While many (most?) med students use these outside resources, they are definitely not required to pass step. No one wants to just pass step because your score is a huge part of your competitiveness. But just from my school, our school resources are enough to make sure you won’t fail step. If an NP program was really on par with med school, its grads should be able to at least pass step.

I have a theory any given school curriculum will get you above passing and potentially around a 210, maybe 220 for the top students. UFAP is what takes you the rest of the way to elite scores.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I have a theory any given school curriculum will get you above passing and potentially around a 210, maybe 220 for the top students. UFAP is what takes you the rest of the way to elite scores.

Agree. There is a small group of students at my school in pretty much every year who don’t use really any outside resources, and they aren’t struggling to pass.

 

[Goro]

I have a theory any given school curriculum will get you above passing and potentially around a 210, maybe 220 for the top students. UFAP is what takes you the rest of the way to elite scores.

That's not a theory, Grey. There's data that shows that top scorers use a multitude of resources, as opposed to just using PPT files.

 

[Select All That Apply]

While many (most?) med students use these outside resources, they are definitely not required to pass step. No one wants to just pass step because your score is a huge part of your competitiveness. But just from my school, our school resources are enough to make sure you won’t fail step. If an NP program was really on par with med school, its grads should be able to at least pass step.

That's the point, NP programs are designed to credential you, not necessarily educate you. Even a brick and mortar NP program will be designed to teach a curriculum that is 75% leadership/fluff classes and 25% physio/pharma/clinicals. This is woefully insufficient compared to the PBL/systems oriented learning the first two years that is 100% physiology/pathophys oriented. Nurses should get "experience" in a specialty either before starting their NP program or during the program because the design for most programs is to be an expensive credentialing pathway.

That being stated, for someone in an NP program to go into a library and start looking at the clinical vignettes in Step 1 and assume they can start answering it is a far cry from home. As far as I know from the curriculum syllabus of the NP programs that I've been looking at there are only a couple of classes that assist in shaping the clinical diagnostic process. It's extremely lacking, therefore someone should not be surprised if they go in thinking that the school will carry them that they are woefully disappointed by the actual "education" provided. However, I do find this situation analogous to medical students who go into a medical school system in order to passively learn the material.

For better or worse, students who challenge themselves and actively learn on their own terms will do a better job than someone who believes that an institution will confer material and they will absorb it by osmosis. There are plenty of materials that are available for lectures whether it is Najeeb or Williams to be a starting point to structure an informal chassis for an education rather than wanting to take a complete change in trajectory simply because NP schools fail to fulfill their assumed function.

 

[Ultimax]

I am a nurse practitioner, and I can assure you that NPs knowledge is superficial. I scored 97th percentile on the board exam, and I am humble to learn so much from my mentor/supervising physician. Despite the fact that NPs are pushing for independent practice, we cannot and we are unable to provide for patient the same level of diagnostic skill that physicians can. Just because we can use the same ICD-10 code when billing insurance company does not mean that our level of care is the same. If you want to be deep in medicine, then go to medical school. Nursing is a great profession, but I do believe that NPs are crossing the boundary to medicine as we essentially practice medicine and not nursing. PAs have better science background than us. We didnt take Physics, Biochemistry, and many of our prerequisite science classes do not satisfy the requirement for science majors because we did not learn the content in depth. To practice medicine without proper medical training while pushing for independent practice is meh.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That's the point, NP programs are designed to credential you, not necessarily educate you. Even a brick and mortar NP program will be designed to teach a curriculum that is 75% leadership/fluff classes and 25% physio/pharma/clinicals. This is woefully insufficient compared to the PBL/systems oriented learning the first two years that is 100% physiology/pathophys oriented. Nurses should get "experience" in a specialty either before starting their NP program or during the program because the design for most programs is to be an expensive credentialing pathway.

That being stated, for someone in an NP program to go into a library and start looking at the clinical vignettes in Step 1 and assume they can start answering it is a far cry from home. As far as I know from the curriculum syllabus of the NP programs that I've been looking at there are only a couple of classes that assist in shaping the clinical diagnostic process. It's extremely lacking, therefore someone should not be surprised if they go in thinking that the school will carry them that they are woefully disappointed by the actual "education" provided. However, I do find this situation analogous to medical students who go into a medical school system in order to passively learn the material.

For better or worse, students who challenge themselves and actively learn on their own terms will do a better job than someone who believes that an institution will confer material and they will absorb it by osmosis. There are plenty of materials that are available for lectures whether it is Najeeb or Williams to be a starting point to structure an informal chassis for an education rather than wanting to take a complete change in trajectory simply because NP schools fail to fulfill their assumed function.

Which is why it’s terrifying that in many states these people can graduate and then immediately start practicing independently. If NP school isn’t meant to educate, when the hell are these people supposed to learn?

 

[proudofmykids]

Which is why it’s terrifying that in many states these people can graduate and then immediately start practicing independently. If NP school isn’t meant to educate, when the hell are these people supposed to learn?

Can’t the same thing be said about PAs?
Local ER just replace 10physicians with PAs. Mind blowing.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Can’t the same thing be said about PAs?
Local ER just replace 10physicians with PAs. Mind blowing.

I think it’s a little different because PA school actually is meant to educate. Their curricula are pretty standardized and follow the med school model. No, they definitely aren’t ready to practice independently and they should not be in positions where they are essentially doing that, but if I had to work with one or the other, I would pick the PA easily. At least they’ve taken grad level courses on path and pharm.

There’s a thread in the EM forum where a doc just worked over thanksgiving without a single MLP and said it actually went more smoothly than it did when they had MLPs. That’s not really surprising to me though. If they work in an assistant role, they can make things easier and go faster. The problem is that many of them don’t want to work in the assistant role even though that’s all they’ve been trained to do.

 

[proudofmykids]

I think it’s a little different because PA school actually is meant to educate. Their curricula are pretty standardized and follow the med school model. No, they definitely aren’t ready to practice independently and they should not be in positions where they are essentially doing that, but if I had to work with one or the other, I would pick the PA easily. At least they’ve taken grad level courses on path and pharm.

There’s a thread in the EM forum where a doc just worked over thanksgiving without a single MLP and said it actually went more smoothly than it did when they had MLPs. That’s not really surprising to me though. If they work in an assistant role, they can make things easier and go faster. The problem is that many of them don’t want to work in the assistant role even though that’s all they’ve been trained to do.

Regardless of them following med schoo-like curricula, I’ve heard similar anecdotal results like mentioned above, 97%+ on their PA ‘boards’ But would easily fail medical boards. Does not instill confidence for anything non routine.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Regardless of them following med schoo-like curricula, I’ve heard similar anecdotal results like mentioned above, 97%+ on their PA ‘boards’ But would easily fail medical boards. Does not instill confidence for anything non routine.

Oh, agreed for sure.

 

[thenursingstudent]

Yes it was wrong to think that. If you want an education equal to a medical student you need to be in medical school.


You need to decide if you are ok being a mid-level or not. If you are ok with never being the person in the room with the highest level of knowledge, or the one making the critical decisions, then I would just stick out the NP program. You already recognizing the serious limitations of your education will actually be a huge boon to you, because you'll be acutely aware of what you know and don't know, I.e. understanding your limitations. This is a trait the best mid-levels have. A good mid-level who knows their role and performs it well is very valuable.

If you decide you really do want that higher level of knowledge and decide to pursue medicine first we need to know what your stats are. I would drop out of the NP program but wouldn't quite your RN job. I would go back to school for the pre-reqs while working as a nurse. It would be pretty easy to explain in an interview that you dropped out of the NP program because you realized you really wanted to be a doctor so you kept working at a well paying job that gave you great clinical exposure while you did your pre-reqs. As a nurse it would be easy to make connections with doctors to shadow.

But again, give us some stats and maybe we can give more pointed advice.

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback. I minored in biology so I need organic chems 1 and 2, biochem and physics. I had a 3.9 cumulative GPA. I don't have volunteer experience besides high school stuff or the physician shadowing.

 

[thenursingstudent]

After thinking about this, I realized I sound like someone who did NOT know what a mid-level entailed and then whined about it!

Within the first few weeks of my leadership course we (NP students) are being told how we need to speak up for full authority practice.

I am surprised at the level of education then. But please don't misunderstand me, I don't want to be a passive learner or rely on the school, but I was surprised that it didn't compare to step 1 material. Maybe I shouldn't be browsing the library like I am? I want to use resources to be better prepared, whether it is as an NP or physician. I'm leaning toward trying for medical school, especially if I can stay working as a nurse. I am just terrified I won't be accepted because of my nursing background and my indecisiveness (going to NP school).

I specifically looked at Florida medical schools, because I have family all over the state I could live with.

Are Caribbean schools as bad as I've read? I've read they try to fail students out because they accept so many but can only keep so many.

 

[proudofmykids]

After thinking about this, I realized I sound like someone who did NOT know what a mid-level entailed and then whined about it!

Within the first few weeks of my leadership course we (NP students) are being told how we need to speak up for full authority practice.

I am surprised at the level of education then. But please don't misunderstand me, I don't want to be a passive learner or rely on the school, but I was surprised that it didn't compare to step 1 material. Maybe I shouldn't be browsing the library like I am? I want to use resources to be better prepared, whether it is as an NP or physician. I'm leaning toward trying for medical school, especially if I can stay working as a nurse. I am just terrified I won't be accepted because of my nursing background and my indecisiveness (going to NP school).

I specifically looked at Florida medical schools, because I have family all over the state I could live with.

Are Caribbean schools as bad as I've read? I've read they try to fail students out because they accept so many but can only keep so many.

Based on your intellectual identification of the significant foundation differences and their implications, I also think you should apply to medical school. How to navigate and plan the timing I’ll leave to those adcoms more expert on these forums.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Thank you, I appreciate the feedback. I minored in biology so I need organic chems 1 and 2, biochem and physics. I had a 3.9 cumulative GPA. I don't have volunteer experience besides high school stuff or the physician shadowing.

That GPA is excellent. If you can keep it near that level while doing all those classes you’ll be fine for medical schools then study hard for the MCAT.

I am just terrified I won't be accepted because of my nursing background and my indecisiveness (going to NP school).

Forget about this. All you need is to say you you decided you wanted a greater knowledge and role in patient care.

No one will ding you because you have a nursing back ground.

Are Caribbean schools as bad as I've read? I've read they try to fail students out because they accept so many but can only keep so many.

Yes. Avoid them like the plague. Bare minimum if you keep near your current gpa and get a 500 on the MCAT a decent DO school should be your floor.

If you do this go all in. Like I said earlier I would leave the NP program (keep your nurse job though 100%) and enroll in those other pre-req courses ASAP, and then start building up the usual ECs. You’re probably looking at 2 years of grinding for this goal but you can do it.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@thenursingstudent How did you come to a conclusion that made you type "Maybe I shouldn't be browsing the library?" Absolutely no one typed anything that should have made you come to this as a rational conclusion. You made a comment along similar lines when you stated how you went through UAB's online resources, took some Step 1 questions, and then came to the conclusion, "I honestly now feel like I wasted time and money..." This isn't rational or healthy thinking and if you are trolling, then this still isn't rational or healthy or thinking. It's illogical and fundamentally counterintuitive to building a model for self-learning.

There is more difficulty in actual practice to challenge these fundamentally bad patterns that clients have because they are seen as customers and in any service industry model, the customer is always seen as being right. However, these flights of thought should be noticed and challenged because they will delay your ability to absorb and learn new material. What I suspect this behavior is and you can correct me which I'm sure you will is that it seems derivative of people who fish for compliments e.g. attractive people typing, "I'm so ugly today" or intelligent people typing, "I can't believe I'm so stupid." These comments though largely have 0 bearing on their actual long-term mentation state and is more so an attempt at them to pull for short-term emotional satisfaction rather than to sit down with their own existence and actually contemplate what they really want and how they will logically get there.

I think encouraging such behavior is vapid and self-destructive, especially because you will have to take several long moments to decide whether this is something you want in the long-term and will have to deal with the ramifications yourself as you realize that you gave up a short goal that you accomplished in lieu of a long term goal that might give you satisfaction. It's not an easy decision, but often times the right decisions are not the easiest ones to make.

 

[deleted804295]

I think it’s a little different because PA school actually is meant to educate. Their curricula are pretty standardized and follow the med school model. No, they definitely aren’t ready to practice independently and they should not be in positions where they are essentially doing that, but if I had to work with one or the other, I would pick the PA easily. At least they’ve taken grad level courses on path and pharm.

There’s a thread in the EM forum where a doc just worked over thanksgiving without a single MLP and said it actually went more smoothly than it did when they had MLPs. That’s not really surprising to me though. If they work in an assistant role, they can make things easier and go faster. The problem is that many of them don’t want to work in the assistant role even though that’s all they’ve been trained to do.

I'm confused why midlevel admissions doesn't vet for students who are comfortable being a midlevel. It's called Physician 'Assistant' for a reason and it's really mind boggling to me how so many use it as an alternative to medicine. It isn't an alternative. It's a career that has very different roles that people who go into these fields should be proud of.

 

[deleted804295]

After thinking about this, I realized I sound like someone who did NOT know what a mid-level entailed and then whined about it!

Within the first few weeks of my leadership course we (NP students) are being told how we need to speak up for full authority practice.

I am surprised at the level of education then. But please don't misunderstand me, I don't want to be a passive learner or rely on the school, but I was surprised that it didn't compare to step 1 material. Maybe I shouldn't be browsing the library like I am? I want to use resources to be better prepared, whether it is as an NP or physician. I'm leaning toward trying for medical school, especially if I can stay working as a nurse. I am just terrified I won't be accepted because of my nursing background and my indecisiveness (going to NP school).

I specifically looked at Florida medical schools, because I have family all over the state I could live with.

Are Caribbean schools as bad as I've read? I've read they try to fail students out because they accept so many but can only keep so many.

The faculty at your school failed you if they said you need to speak up for full authority practice. A nurse will always be a nurse, a physician assistant will always be a physician assistant, and a doctor will always be a doctor. These roles do not blend. They all serve distinct roles and if the faculty at your school are telling you otherwise then they have failed you.

 

[ThetisAntithesis]

The faculty at your school failed you if they said you need to speak up for full authority practice. A nurse will always be a nurse, a physician assistant will always be a physician assistant, and a doctor will always be a doctor. These roles do not blend. They all serve distinct roles and if the faculty at your school are telling you otherwise then they have failed you.

They do it at every NP school, mine included. It was the basis of pretty much every "policy" or "leadership" class and conference we were made to attend.
Even I called/wrote my congressman to allow for full practice authority in my state - that was before my eyes were opened to the realities of working as an NP.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Sunbodi Nursing is highly political. There was a lot of propaganda in classes about how nurses ought to have a similar impact in healthcare because of the amount of learning done in nursing programs. However, more time was spent on spiel's like this on a lecture about HIV rather than talking about the processes behind HAART or IgA, IgG, IgM outside of one or two sentences. I had an incensed professor ask me what my intention was when questioning them whether HAART applied concepts of PCR/RT-PCR. I had to tell them that I had no ulterior motives and ended up just doing review questions in class because almost all of the questions were pulled from review banks and nothing was from their actual lectures.

However, these topics are incredibly superficial compared to what you will find in the first two lectures in a typical immunology class which covers topics like B cells, CD40 binding, T cell priming, and the dreaded topics on VDJ recombination. However, it gives you an appropriate framework of what the pieces are before playing with the more "macro" and bigger picture concepts. There is something lost by skimming only the top most layer and it is unfortunate that many nurses feel woefully insufficient because they are taught largely by incompetent NPs who couldn't hack it. I've unfortunately had too much of my share of lectures on these topics and its transparent what the difference is between someone who can only read off their own print outs and someone who works off of the presentation material. Sadly, too many instructors within nursing are the former and not the latter.

I disagree with the idea that "A nurse will always be a nurse" with the conclusion that "These roles do not blend." They are blending because of political pressure and nursing unionization having a strong influence across the United States. Independent practice is a concept that has much range and complexity when it comes to prescriber authority wrt limited practice and restricted practice. However, more minute than this are specifics like certain states enabling nurses to write prescriptions for C-III to C-IV medications, but not C-II medications. General population medicine management (primary care) is becoming a blur, whereas fields like surgery still adhere to strict guidelines.

There is also significant blurring with respect to recompensation and reimbursement. From my limited understanding of the fields, nurse anesthetists earn double in certain states what NPs make due to how Medicare Part B compensates for anesthesia as a service without taking into note who is the provider or due to the hospital not necessarily having to disclose whether anesthesia was provided by a CRNA or a physician if the amount of hours worked by the individual falls below a certain threshold. These are topics that are unfortunately not fought on principles of medicine, but rather are controlled by politicians whose only principle is on popularity.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

enabling nurses to write prescriptions

That’s part of the problem.

 

[Select All That Apply]

@Matthew9Thirtyfive Yes, we're on the same page.

 

[deleted804295]

Allowing nurses to write prescriptions is frightening. I once asked a nurse the cellular mechanism of the shot she was giving me and she unfortunately could not answer it. If nurses can't even answer questions about shots they give daily why are they being told that they should have full autonomy? It frankly scares me. Not understanding how medicine works can be fatal when prescribing medications.

 

[thenursingstudent]

Update:

I was thinking about this post I’d made. If anyone cares or could learn from it or maybe just let me work through the events and welcome feedback, I’m putting an update here.

I was awarded a full scholarship for the following semester (spring 2020) at UAB in the NP program for doing community outreach. I stayed the course. I had pharmacology where they taught us how to write prescriptions (How. Not why I am choosing the medication/s) and material from an undergrad nursing level pharmacology book. I had a second class about research. Also learned the same information I did in my undergrad nursing research class. I didn’t know what resources I should have used to help myself learn more, so I just tried learning biochemistry on my own.

Covid happened so in NJ there were major changes, but I had just moved to FL in January and couldn’t stop thinking about my NJ coworkers on the frontline. I got a nursing job in bariatric surgery but trained to covid units. My aunt died, who had been in a rehab after a fall with copd and diabetes. My parents were sick and recovering now. The desire to be a physician, based on my personal and professional experiences in this pandemic, has been made clearer.

My personality is one that’s never been confident. As a new nurse, I had struggled with the “fake it till you make it” advice. I think a person needs confidence to even decide on pursuing medical school but now I’m the exception because I still don’t have confidence but if I had started the process right when I graduated nursing school, maybe by this fall I’d be starting medical school. So I’m just taking one thing at a time since times going by anyway and will get my prerequisites completed.

Guess I’ll update in a few months how it’s been going! Right now I’m basically only deciding between finishing my sciences at a community college or doing a premed/post grad 2 year program? And still working as a nurse, physicians seem to like me though so I haven’t shadowed any yet but I have one in mind to request.

thanks for reading!

 

[akg0119]

@thenursingstudent thank you for your work on the front lines, and I am so sorry about your loss.

Be careful with taking pre-reqs at a community college, there are many medical schools that will not accept them. If you only have a handful of classes left to take, you may not need a full two-year postbacc program. Is there a four-year university near you where you could take your remaining science prereqs?

 

[KnightDoc]

@thenursingstudent thank you for your work on the front lines, and I am so sorry about your loss.

Be careful with taking pre-reqs at a community college, there are many medical schools that will not accept them. If you only have a handful of classes left to take, you may not need a full two-year postbacc program. Is there a four-year university near you where you could take your remaining science prereqs?

This^^^^^^. Given your background, you definitely do not need a formal program (unless your UG GPA sucks and you need to do GPA repair, maybe with a linkage to a medical school), but a lot of med schools do look down on community college classes due to perceived lack of rigor. Just take whatever prereqs you need as a non-degree seeking student at a local 4-year college or university. Good luck!!!!

 

[thenursingstudent]

Thank you very much for the condolences and thanks, as well as for the heads up regarding community colleges and how medical schools may view that. I only wanted CC because they're a LOT cheaper!

Well these are my options. I can move back to NJ, because my former manager there offered me a job. In NJ, I would hope to pursue Rutgers NJ Medical school.

If I stay put in Florida, I currently live near UCF college of medicine near Orlando. My salary would be higher in NJ, so I can save more money there for medical school. I have family in both states to live with. This is assuming I could get into these medical schools, it seems like most people don't get their first choices and heck I'd be really lucky since I'm a non traditional student. The good thing going for me is a 3.9 gpa and I could get good physician recommendations from work.

What do you think? Thank you in advance.

 

[KnightDoc]

Thank you very much for the condolences and thanks, as well as for the heads up regarding community colleges and how medical schools may view that. I only wanted CC because they're a LOT cheaper!

Well these are my options. I can move back to NJ, because my former manager there offered me a job. In NJ, I would hope to pursue Rutgers NJ Medical school.

If I stay put in Florida, I currently live near UCF college of medicine near Orlando. My salary would be higher in NJ, so I can save more money there for medical school. I have family in both states to live with. This is assuming I could get into these medical schools, it seems like most people don't get their first choices and heck I'd be really lucky since I'm a non traditional student. The good thing going for me is a 3.9 gpa and I could get good physician recommendations from work.

What do you think? Thank you in advance.

You are in WAY better shape than you realize!!! 3.9 is freaking awesome, and around 2/3 of all matriculants are "non-traditional" (i.e., have at least one gap year), and, in general, the more non-traditional the better. Schools just love the maturity and experience that results from those gap years.

I'd go to whichever state makes you happiest. They both have pros and cons, but from strictly a financial perspective, IS tuition in FL at public schools is a LOT less expensive than NJ (in fact, OOS tuition in FL is comparable to IS in NJ!). As long as you take prereqs at a 4-year school and do well, you will be good to go, and, based on your story, you should be a very strong candidate, assuming you can crush the MCAT.

 

[2010houston]

Look around the forum, but I believe Florida is a much better place to apply to medical school than NJ with far more in-state options - don’t get your heart set on only on program, but do well in your post-bacc courses and crush the MCAT and you may welhave multiple options to choose from.

agree completely with the above advice re: taking your additional sci classes at a 4yr program. Yes it’s more expensive - but it is worth it.

I understand the struggling with confidence part of things. Getting a 3.9GPA in college with a minor in biology is no joke. You’re smart. You know how to study. You know how to succeed. You can do this! I think you’ll be very pleased with the *lack* of fluff in medical school curricula as compared to what you’re dealing with now.

feel free to PM me if you like- I did a similar post-bacc. Happy to talk about it and also about prepping for the MCAT as a nontrad student.
Good luck to you!

 

[deleted804295]

Update:

I was thinking about this post I’d made. If anyone cares or could learn from it or maybe just let me work through the events and welcome feedback, I’m putting an update here.

I was awarded a full scholarship for the following semester (spring 2020) at UAB in the NP program for doing community outreach. I stayed the course. I had pharmacology where they taught us how to write prescriptions (How. Not why I am choosing the medication/s) and material from an undergrad nursing level pharmacology book. I had a second class about research. Also learned the same information I did in my undergrad nursing research class. I didn’t know what resources I should have used to help myself learn more, so I just tried learning biochemistry on my own.

Covid happened so in NJ there were major changes, but I had just moved to FL in January and couldn’t stop thinking about my NJ coworkers on the frontline. I got a nursing job in bariatric surgery but trained to covid units. My aunt died, who had been in a rehab after a fall with copd and diabetes. My parents were sick and recovering now. The desire to be a physician, based on my personal and professional experiences in this pandemic, has been made clearer.

My personality is one that’s never been confident. As a new nurse, I had struggled with the “fake it till you make it” advice. I think a person needs confidence to even decide on pursuing medical school but now I’m the exception because I still don’t have confidence but if I had started the process right when I graduated nursing school, maybe by this fall I’d be starting medical school. So I’m just taking one thing at a time since times going by anyway and will get my prerequisites completed.

Guess I’ll update in a few months how it’s been going! Right now I’m basically only deciding between finishing my sciences at a community college or doing a premed/post grad 2 year program? And still working as a nurse, physicians seem to like me though so I haven’t shadowed any yet but I have one in mind to request.

thanks for reading!

Glad to see you're doing well and have decided that you want to go into medicine. Medicine needs introspective people. Stay around on SDN and good luck! 🙂

 

[thenursingstudent]

Thank you for the replies! I’m really excited about my decision. And I have more news to share, and one question please.

I contacted 3 medical school admission offices. I know that what I asked is probably unheard of and I didn’t expect the positive responses I received. I asked if any of my NP classes might substitute for prerequisite sciences classes I have not taken yet. The admissions’ responses were willing to review my transcripts and let me know. This doesn’t mean the answer is yes but it encouraged me also. I think though I’ll still be taking all the prerequisites because I think it would help me.

My question is regarding that I feel a little unguided in the process and just want to make sure I’m on the right track. I’ll be finishing the science classes for one year. I thought maybe I can take the MCATs before I’ve finished all of them as long as I’m preparing, for example in February 2021. I can even work only PT if necessary.

What do you all think?

 

[KnightDoc]

Thank you for the replies! I’m really excited about my decision. And I have more news to share, and one question please.

I contacted 3 medical school admission offices. I know that what I asked is probably unheard of and I didn’t expect the positive responses I received. I asked if any of my NP classes might substitute for prerequisite sciences classes I have not taken yet. The admissions’ responses were willing to review my transcripts and let me know. This doesn’t mean the answer is yes but it encouraged me also. I think though I’ll still be taking all the prerequisites because I think it would help me.

My question is regarding that I feel a little unguided in the process and just want to make sure I’m on the right track. I’ll be finishing the science classes for one year. I thought maybe I can take the MCATs before I’ve finished all of them as long as I’m preparing, for example in February 2021. I can even work only PT if necessary.

What do you all think?

No, no, no, no, no. Bad idea. The MCAT is more intense than probably any other standardized test you have taken to this point, and while it is not as important as we all make it out to be, it is probably the single most important element (tied with GPA) of your application in determining where and whether you will be a competitive applicant. Depending on how good you are, preparing for the MCAT, while working and taking classes, will take you several months. Trying to do it while taking the subjects it is testing will just make it unnecessarily hard on yourself.

When do you want to apply, and when will you be done with the prereqs? If the answer is next summer and spring, you could theoretically take the test as late as next June and still be okay for the next application cycle, assuming you start working on what you can for the MCAT in the winter and spring and then really hit it hard between when your classes end and when you take the test. Just please don't take the test before you have taken the prereqs. Whatever score you receive will not be as good as it could have been if you waited.

 

[LizzyM]

Following up on @KnightDoc 's comments. Please keep in mind that the most successful MCAT takers take 5 or more practice tests, each of which requires 7 hours under usual test conditions and then spend 7 more hours the next day reviewing both what they got wrong and what they got right -- to be sure that you really know this stuff and did not just make a lucky guess. Ideally, you have at least a week between practice tests and the last few come in the weeks just before the exam so that the real exam day is just like another test day.

You'll need time to review material but also time to get to know the style of the exam and strategies for choosing the correct response.

 

[LunaOri]

If your undergraduate school has a premed advisor/committee, start using them as a resource. They are the experts. Even if they decline to write you a committee letter, they can still advise you. Let them know that you are definitely going to apply--colleges care about "yield", so it is in their best interest to help you.
Take your science prereqs at a 4-year school (many have night classes and online classes exactly for folks who are planning to go to med school).
Finish all your prereqs by the date of the MCAT. If you are really dedicated, you may be able to work, take a class, and study for the MCATs at the same time, but most people would wait to start studying for the test until after they had finished the last course. Plan on studying for as long as it takes you to do well on the practice tests. For some people, that might be 12 weeks. For others, it might be 12 months.
Good luck!

 

[thenursingstudent]

Thank you KnightDoc, LizzyM and LunaOri. I appreciate it so much.

Ok. Tentatively I will have a June date in mind for the MCATs. I overestimated myself I think. I took a lot of undergraduate sciences, but the chemistries I’m definitely weak in. When I review my notes for genetics, bio etc I’m good with the material.

I’ll find out if my undergrad school has a pre med committee.

 

[LunaOri]

All four-year colleges have premed advising, you just have to find the right person(s) and make sure they are motivated to help you.

 

[NITRAS]

Be careful, lots of pre-med advisors pretty much suck.

Good luck to the OP.

 

[LizzyM]

All four-year colleges have premed advising, you just have to find the right person(s) and make sure they are motivated to help you.

I highly doubt this to be true. Some small schools don't have students going on to medical school and won't have pre-med advising. Some kind of career advising office might be able to help but they won't know the fine points. Buy access to the MSAR. They don't pay me to say this but it is the best money you'll spend in this process.

 

[thenursingstudent]

I highly doubt this to be true. Some small schools don't have students going on to medical school and won't have pre-med advising. Some kind of career advising office might be able to help but they won't know the fine points. Buy access to the MSAR. They don't pay me to say this but it is the best money you'll spend in this process.

I emailed one of my favorite biology teachers who is also a premed advisor, and she responded saying "you can do it" and "take organic chem with physics". But then she sent me another email with who could help me more, so I've contacted them 🙂

Thank you for the advice re: MSAR! It actually is really helpful, I purchased the 1 year for now.