SOAP 2015

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Its not bad for all IMGs, only for the ones who dont have contacts. I know someone who claims to be a surgeon in his country for the last 8-9 yrs...applied to the match with only step 1 and ck result with average score, no US clinical exp and managed to get 6 interviews...wow...after CS he got 3 more interviews ...lolzz ....🙂 how super LUCKY...rt? ...C'mon guys this is not pure luck ..these are Contacts working their magic. This person who claimed to be a surgeon for so long in his country of origin ( possibly a fake CV) suddenly had a change of heart and decided to do IM 😉 instead and matched to one of his favorite programs. Why didn't the PDs take into account that sudden change of speciality...did a so called surgeon in a third world country have enough experience or LORs in medicine to match to a competitive IM residency program. here in the US? IT gets even better....🙂....the best part he was so confident before the match that he will definitely match 😉 when even the american grads were freaking out and so many are still left unmatched 🙁 ..............They dont say it for nothin that u need to know the right people if u got to get in. The system is horribly corrupt !
 
Good luck tomorrow to everyone still looking for a spot. These past two days were absolute brutality, and I can't imagine what kind of stress everyone is still under.

Keep in touch with your programs, get everyone's email that you talk to and thank them by email within an hour or so of your conversation. Just a short, sweet, and thoughtful note with something about the program that you like and something about yourself that you think the program should appreciate.

I really think this is key, programs are just as anxious about not filling as you are about not getting a spot. They want to give the spots to the best candidate they can get, but they also don't want their offers turned down so if they know you'll take it it will help. This is not the time to pussyfoot about with respect to making promises about accepting offers, if you get any sort of "informal offer" make sure you're clear with whoever you're speaking to that you'll take it if it shows up on R3 tomorrow.
 
coat0023 said:
What are you applying for and which international school did you go to? Did you apply broadly and especially to places that take IMGs? That seems strange to only have received one interview.
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I went to school in PK. Applied to just IM for the match. During soap i did about half IM and half FM. I really don't get it, i mean i know other kids from my school that got plenty of interviews and matched. They did have slightly better score than me but i figured i was above the cut off so I'd at least get some interviews. Maybe my lack of US clinical experience? I have two LoRs that add up to 3 months plus I've been doing research and was going to be put on the papers the labs is going to publish. Also yes I applied everywhere, to IMG friendly programs who's criteria I met or exceeded for scores and experience.
 
docmedicine said:
Docmama are you saying programs look into your medical and mental history too before deciding for residency appointments? 😵
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Oh, no. Nothing like that! But during my internship it (obviously) came up. My point in telling that story about my fellow intern who was an addict was that he had all kinds of support and advocacy from the get-go. State-funded, no less. I had nothing. It was more or less, "go get yourself some therapy, maybe some drugs, good luck." I had absolutely no help whatsoever. Nothing. And then, two years later, when I approach them about LORs, they're more than happy to do it (and they wrote glowing letters too, I might add). So I'm just confused as to why they were so useless when I was leaving and didn't help me lay out any kind of pathway for return. It's like they didn't know what to do with a depressed intern (as if I was the first. . .).
 
Jsy2255 said:
I went to school in PK. Applied to just IM for the match. During soap i did about half IM and half FM. I really don't get it, i mean i know other kids from my school that got plenty of interviews and matched. They did have slightly better score than me but i figured i was above the cut off so I'd at least get some interviews. Maybe my lack of US clinical experience? I have two LoRs that add up to 3 months plus I've been doing research and was going to be put on the papers the labs is going to publish. Also yes I applied everywhere, to IMG friendly programs who's criteria I met or exceeded for scores and experience.
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I know it's hard to digest, but it's still very competitive. Programs can screen upwards of 3000 apps to select people to interview. Within that group, there's bound to be several candidates with similar scores. Beyond your scores, there are other factors like whether you're an AMG/IMG, if you're an IMG, your visa status, US LoRs, USCE, research, year of graduation, etc.

I'm not sure how many places you applied to during this season. If SOAP doesn't follow through, your best bet is to apply to more places and less competitive specialities. In the meantime, focus on what you can change, like research.

I have heard of some people who try to focus on a specific hospital/program. They network, do some research and etc at that center in hopes that they'll have a higher chance of being interviewed there and hopefully matching there.

It's tough, but if you're persistent and you work hard on it, you can maximize your chances. Good luck!
 
Questionmark? said:
I know it's hard to digest, but it's still very competitive. Programs can screen upwards of 3000 apps to select people to interview. Within that group, there's bound to be several candidates with similar scores. Beyond your scores, there are other factors like whether you're an AMG/IMG, if you're an IMG, your visa status, US LoRs, USCE, research, year of graduation, etc.

I'm not sure how many places you applied to during this season. If SOAP doesn't follow through, your best bet is to apply to more places and less competitive specialities. In the meantime, focus on what you can change, like research.

I have heard of some people who try to focus on a specific hospital/program. They network, do some research and etc at that center in hopes that they'll have a higher chance of being interviewed there and hopefully matching there.

It's tough, but if you're persistent and you work hard on it, you can maximize your chances. Good luck!
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Thanks for the tips, just have to keep trying I guess
 
Wouldn't be surprised if that actually happened. Not that the NRMP would do anything about it anyways.
 
caffeinatedresident said:
Hey, I'm a current resident w/ a med school friend who had to SOAP this year and am trying to gather more information about people's experiences during round one of SOAP. Someone else who posted in this thread had mentioned during round one of SOAP that offers were staggered instead of all at once. Did anyone get multiple offers during round one?...
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Your question is a very valid one, and that's quite possibly what happened. It's been confirmed that some people received offers 20-30 minutes apart at times. As long as the "generating" message was still there, it means there was the possibility another offer could have come through. I'm pretty solid the program was done for everyone by about 1:10-15ish. At 12:40, our dean contacted all our SOAPers and told us not to accept anything until 1:30, just in case, because people were getting staggered offers. One of my friends also snatched up the first offer he got (after interviewing at several programs), and it was definitely still generating for him. Luckily, he's happy with his spot. NRMP admitted to them being staggered on accident, but other than that they won't admit to any other problem.
 
caffeinatedresident said:
Hey, I'm a current resident w/ a med school friend who had to SOAP this year and am trying to gather more information about people's experiences during round one of SOAP. Someone else who posted in this thread had mentioned during round one of SOAP that offers were staggered instead of all at once. Did anyone get multiple offers during round one? If so, did you get the "generating offers" text for a while first and then have to refresh multiple times to see other offers? Friend kept seeing the "generating offers" text and then saw one offer, and after waiting a while (but not the full 2 hrs), thought it was the only offer (despite getting very positive feedback from another -- in addition to multiple interviews overall), thus accepted it rather than not having anything. After subsequent investigation by school, sounds like the positive feedback program had ranked to give an offer to friend during round one, but the offer didn't show up alongside the offer that ended up accepted (because of the loading time/staggering glitch? or possible lack of refreshing after one offer appeared??), thus friend missed accepting an offer that was the best mutually desired offer (as that offer was never seen), and that program apparently went to subsequent rounds of SOAP to try to fill spots. School has been trying to look into this and apparently because offers were staggered or delayed somehow in loading, only the first offer appeared for friend. Don't know if the other offer would have eventually appeared if friend waited until the very last minute of round one and continuously refreshed, but this still sounds like could be a system technical problem vs. individual user error. Friend is still very glad to have a spot next year after the distress of not matching, but this makes a difference for various reasons. This is all secondhand information, and I'm not trying to raise false hope (don't think it would make a difference for people who hadn't received any offers) or stir up anything, but I'm trying to see if any others had experiences that might be consistent with this which could imply a broader issue vs. this being an isolated experience. I've tried to keep this as anonymous as possible and if any of this could possibly negatively affect friend, will plan to delete post, but see if this could have happened to other people
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This is my first post but I have been reading for advice for some time.
For this specific question, I will speak from my exp for this year's SOAP. I was in a room with most of the people who were in SOAP at my school, I witnessed someone who received 3 offers, they did not come out at the same time. The first one showed up while everyone was still panicking and when I look again at his screen after a long time, 2 others were on the screen. (for a total of 3) I also think programs called him and told him they could not put in offer due to system issue at about 12:15-12:30(at some point in time when we were all freaking out and no one knew what was going on)
Our dean told us at some point that all offers were out (before the computer told us) and I was left with nothing.
Congratulation to your friend!
 
Getting ready for another day of SOAP. *deep breath*
 
So if we get offers today starting at 9:00, do we still have 2 hours to accept them? Meaning rounds go every 2 hours till the last one at 3:00?
 
saudades said:
So if we get offers today starting at 9:00, do we still have 2 hours to accept them? Meaning rounds go every 2 hours till the last one at 3:00?
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I believe so yes, offer waves at 9, 12, and 3
 
I too am very interested in what is going on with this SOAP stuff. These stats people are posting confuses the heck out of me and makes me realize how fortunate I am (even if some here think I was being a jerk before). I am almost, second career, started at one Carib school, transferred to another (top 3), 3- year gap between 2nd and 3rd year of school, 224 on both steps and applied WITHOUT CK or CS (got scores in December). I got 9 interviews, IM, FM, Med-Peds and anesthesiology (I applied to 6 specialties, 75 total programs). I only applied in 3 states to stay in my region and I matched. It makes me wonder why others didn't get ranked better. Was it the choice of specialty, the interview, board scores, or some other NRMP issue. As I also posted, programs aren't happy with the SOAP this year either. Good luck to everyone.

PS. Screw writing your legislators, they don't care about unemployed people with MDs. However, the lack of training programs needs to be brought to the public's attention. Write news organizations, post in social media, and while this is hot to all of us, stay on it until it makes national news of the REAL reason there is a physician shortage.
 
Maine coon said:
…I witnessed someone who received 3 offers, they did not come out at the same time. The first one showed up while everyone was still panicking and when I look again at his screen after a long time, 2 others were on the screen. (for a total of 3)…
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Wow that's not cool (that people's offers didn't come in together). I was expecting multiple offers, but with the "offers generating" glitch lasting 40minutes for me I snatched up the only one I had on my screen as soon as it arrived. The offer I took was the one I was hoping most for, so it's all good, but one of the others had a very solid benefits package and high pay in a low COL area, so I would have given it some thought.

I was promised the spot I took by the PD Tuesday evening, but this other program called me twice yesterday morning to see if I was really comitted to moving to their city (I was plenty happy with it). And during the "glitch" they texted me and told me not to panick because there was this glitch. I can't imagine they'd send me that message if they didn't have an offer in for me...

It would have been nice if NRMP had emailed us all and told us exactly what was going on and how best to go about dealing with it. The fact that they have been so tight lipped is highly unprofessional IMO. I can never know for sure if I had multiple offers, but it would have been nice to have more than one place to consider if those programs really wanted me.
 
It happened, got an offer! Oh man what a release. Stay positive people, it's not over til it's over. This was a call I received late yesterday from a program I applied to before Round 1. So anything is possible.
 
PMRMD2B said:
I too am very interested in what is going on with this SOAP stuff. These stats people are posting confuses the heck out of me and makes me realize how fortunate I am (even if some here think I was being a jerk before). I am almost, second career, started at one Carib school, transferred to another (top 3), 3- year gap between 2nd and 3rd year of school, 224 on both steps and applied WITHOUT CK or CS (got scores in December). I got 9 interviews, IM, FM, Med-Peds and anesthesiology (I applied to 6 specialties, 75 total programs). I only applied in 3 states to stay in my region and I matched. It makes me wonder why others didn't get ranked better. Was it the choice of specialty, the interview, board scores, or some other NRMP issue. As I also posted, programs aren't happy with the SOAP this year either. Good luck to everyone.

PS. Screw writing your legislators, they don't care about unemployed people with MDs. However, the lack of training programs needs to be brought to the public's attention. Write news organizations, post in social media, and while this is hot to all of us, stay on it until it makes national news of the REAL reason there is a physician shortage.
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I truly believe that the ACGME merger is the solution to the problem. There are countless unfilled DO slots each year...meanwhile the MD seats are completely filled. But do you think that the DO programs are going to take IMGs over DO's? Highly unlikely. I think that it is going to be a haven for AMGs who don't match NRMP. IMG is becoming an increasingly BAD investment, and if their students continue to struggle to fill at some point they will have to be shut down. IMG was a legitimate option for people going into medicine 5-10 years from now...not anymore.
 
dcby said:
It happened, got an offer! Oh man what a release. Stay positive people, it's not over til it's over. This was a call I received late yesterday from a program I applied to before Round 1. So anything is possible.
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congrats!
 
j4pac said:
IMG is becoming an increasingly BAD investment
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I disagree. The cost of education is sky rocketing in the US. As a US IMG, my cost of tuition ended up being $60,000, an amount that AMG's pay per year of tuition now, not to mention the undergrad requirement and cost.

If I were to choose a 95% match rate but $500,000 of debt, over a 50% match rate with less than $100,000, I would choose the latter every. single. time. It's money management.
 
j4pac said:
I truly believe that the ACGME merger is the solution to the problem. There are countless unfilled DO slots each year...meanwhile the MD seats are completely filled. But do you think that the DO programs are going to take IMGs over DO's? Highly unlikely. I think that it is going to be a haven for AMGs who don't match NRMP. IMG is becoming an increasingly BAD investment, and if their students continue to struggle to fill at some point they will have to be shut down. IMG was a legitimate option for people going into medicine 5-10 years from now...not anymore.
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I do think the merger will help, my local DO PD says she gets calls from IMG's every year about open slots but can't consider them.

The only issue is that a lot of the un-filled DO programs may not pass ACGME accreditation standards, so when the merger happens I expect the DO residency program population to atrophy some. And the programs that remain are still going to have OMM training requirements that not many MD's will have or want to go through.

Plus, it doesn't add any more programs to the pool, and may very likely have the opposite effect. Still, it will even out the available positions and make some that regularly go unfilled, less likely to remain that way.
 
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Just received an offer for prelim surg to a place I originally wanted! Received call last night, and offer today. Also of note, use Firefox to receive the offer if using a Mac. Good luck to everyone out there still waiting!
 
WhyNotMedicine said:
I disagree. The cost of education is sky rocketing in the US. As a US IMG, my cost of tuition ended up being $60,000, an amount that AMG's pay per year of tuition now, not to mention the undergrad requirement and cost.

If I were to choose a 95% match rate but $500,000 of debt, over a 50% match rate with less than $100,000, I would choose the latter every. single. time. It's money management.
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Not me. I'd rather have $500,000 debt with a $200,000 annual salary than $100,000K debt and a likely average salary of around $50K.

At first glance, the ratio of debt to income for the lower numbers looks better. But the other situation opens up a much stronger means of actually paying the debt back (nobody requires anywhere near $200,000 annually to live, but at $50K many can't pay all their regular bills, much less student loans).

And I don't think $15k annual tuition is the norm, even in the carribean.

That's not a knock on anyone coming from the Carribean, just a statement on the investment of going to school foreign vs in the states if one's goal is to practice in the USA.
 
WhyNotMedicine said:
I disagree. The cost of education is sky rocketing in the US. As a US IMG, my cost of tuition ended up being $60,000, an amount that AMG's pay per year of tuition now, not to mention the undergrad requirement and cost.

If I were to choose a 95% match rate but $500,000 of debt, over a 50% match rate with less than $100,000, I would choose the latter every. single. time. It's money management.
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Yeah...I completely disagree. You don't see MDs/DOs starving on the street after residency. I also think that you took two extremes in regards to the different prices. If you get through residency...you pay off your loans, especially considering 10-yr loan forgiveness. If you don't get into residency on the other hand...$100,000 isn't a drop in the bucket. And if the cost of education does get up to $500,000+...the military becomes a very favorable option. Last year the IMG match rate was 50%...and this year is more competitive than last. I wouldn't be surprised if it is down to 40% this year.
 
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SLC said:
I do think the merger will help, my local DO PD says she gets calls from IMG's every year about open slots but can't consider them.

The only issue is that a lot of the un-filled DO programs may not pass ACGME accreditation standards, so when the merger happens I expect the DO residency program population to atrophy some. And the programs that remain are still going to have OMM training requirements that not many MD's will have or want to go through.

Plus, it doesn't add any more programs to the pool, and may very likely have the opposite effect. Still, it will even out the available positions and make some that regularly go unfilled, less likely to remain that way.
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I have been told by a number of PDs that the ACGME standards have become a joke based on the new accreditation standards. I'm confident that the mass majority of DO programs will maintain this minimum standards.
 
SLC said:
Not me. I'd rather have $500,000 debt with a $200,000 annual salary than $100,000K debt and a likely average salary of around $50K.
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I don't know where you're getting your statistics from. Average salary of all physicians in 2013 was $259,000 for males, and $199,000 for females ($189,000/$161,000 for primary care).

SLC said:
And I don't think $15k annual tuition is the norm, even in the carribean.
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I'm not talking about Caribbean schools. Not all US IMG's come from Caribbean schools.

Assuming we match, we're all going to have the same ****ty $50k/year income for 3 years before the significant bump in income. Anyone who is deciding to go to university/medical school in the US today faces the decision of being dragged into a massive amount of debt. I can't even imagine being a part of the 5% who didn't match and now has the equivalent of a house mortgage to pay with no income. My debt is nowhere near that much and I can easily choose another medically related profession if I can't successfully find a residency and still pay off my debt without a problem.

Remember, the laws were written so that even if you bankrupt, the debt stays with you. These debts are the equivalent of financial suicide if you don't match.

It all comes down to what you're willing to risk. If you want a practically guaranteed shot at getting a job, but you have to spend the equivalent of a large house to do it before you can, by all means. People who can't afford to live with that kind of debt have the option of choosing being an IMG, where you have to work harder to be in the top 50%, but you will be better off financially if you do.

One last thing. When you began your undergraduate career and medical school the tuition was less than it is now, so people deciding today have a much more difficult decision than you did.
 
Just got offered into advanced radiology and accepted. Originally plan to do primary care.
Now I have no prelim, applied to 9 yesterday only 5-6 are still open at 5pm yesterday and have not received any call.
Does anyone has any sort of advice regarding cold calling unfilled surgical prelim after 5pm today?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
I would call the place where you got the Rads spot and see if they have anything open there (I know someone in the same boat from last year who squeezed into a spot like that).
 
How likely is it that schools will open a 1-year position (prelim? transitional?) for unmatched students after SOAP vs. watching them go through the alternative of delaying graduation and reapplying?
 
Maine coon said:
Just got offered into advanced radiology and accepted. Originally plan to do primary care.
Now I have no prelim, applied to 9 yesterday only 5-6 are still open at 5pm yesterday and have not received any call.
Does anyone has any sort of advice regarding cold calling unfilled surgical prelim after 5pm today?
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Yikes, tough situation (stress inducing tough, that is)

I would assume that, given your AMG status (right?), making a round of calls with the explanation that you already have an advanced position waiting would be quite productive.

Get your Dean and faculty involved as well. I think chances are quite high this can work out well for you!
 
WhyNotMedicine said:
I don't know where you're getting your statistics from. Average salary of all physicians in 2013 was $259,000 for males, and $199,000 for females ($189,000/$161,000 for primary care).



I'm not talking about Caribbean schools. Not all US IMG's come from Caribbean schools.

Assuming we match, we're all going to have the same ****ty $50k/year income for 3 years before the significant bump in income. Anyone who is deciding to go to university/medical school in the US today faces the decision of being dragged into a massive amount of debt. I can't even imagine being a part of the 5% who didn't match and now has the equivalent of a house mortgage to pay with no income. My debt is nowhere near that much and I can easily choose another medically related profession if I can't successfully find a residency and still pay off my debt without a problem.

Remember, the laws were written so that even if you bankrupt, the debt stays with you. These debts are the equivalent of financial suicide if you don't match.

It all comes down to what you're willing to risk. If you want a practically guaranteed shot at getting a job, but you have to spend the equivalent of a large house to do it before you can, by all means. People who can't afford to live with that kind of debt have the option of choosing being an IMG, where you have to work harder to be in the top 50%, but you will be better off financially if you do.

One last thing. When you began your undergraduate career and medical school the tuition was less than it is now, so people deciding today have a much more difficult decision than you did.
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Like what? I ask because im a us img and didnt match this year....contemplating what to do next
 
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