neuropsychi

5+ Year Member
Oct 1, 2013
23
5
101
Status
Medical Student
What mcl said x 10000. Sometimes they can create a spot for you at their main hospital. As I understand it every school has X number of ACGME spots every year, so if another program goes unfilled they can sometimes shift a spot over to a prelim-IM or prelim-surg program
Thanks Elementals. my advanced program hospital has 3 prelim-surgery not filled, my PD said he will contact them, but nothing heard back. I talked with the prelim PD, and was informed that they are not accepting applicants at this point(i applied during main match). i am wondering what is going on with the prelim-surgery? anyone has any insight?
 

Goro

7+ Year Member
Jun 10, 2010
51,062
73,125
181
Somewhere west of St. Louis
Status
Non-Student
Agree 100% with my learned colleague. My students who end up having to scramble usually either aim too high or fail to have enough back-up choices. I remember one kid who had UCSF as his only choice. That blew up in his face and became a Psych resident in a large east coast city.

As we have pointed out numbers times before, IMGs have defects that PDs are very well aware of, including but not limited to: failing to look before they leap, gullibility and an inability to delay gratification.

Who are you going to sue? Congress? ACGME? The booming number of IMG med schools?

The mass majority of AMGs are failing to match because of unrealistic expectations. They either don't apply broadly enough or to unrealistic specialties. They then have the option to SOAP or wait a year. With proper match strategy...the match rate for AMGs would be damn near 100%. DO typically fail to match due to unrealistic expectations as well...deciding to not go AOA and risk it for the NRMP. But DOs typically have the opportunity to scramble after the SOAP...and they can have a good chance of matching the following year by going AOA.

IMG is a different animal. Do people entering the IMG scenario not know the risks that they are assuming by attending? I find that hard to believe. The mass majority know the risks and go anyway...and then when they either attrite or don't match...the mass majority don't want to run off and sue. They are pissed...realizing the horrible investment that was IMG...but they don't blame everyone else for their decision. I'm sorry that the IMG situation sucks so much...and yes they are exploiting you...but the exploitation is well known by the people entering the contract.

By the looks of things...it appears that residency programs will be even more restrictive to IMGs in the future...and that's probably a good thing. It will hopefully prevent students from being enticed to going into the scam in the first place. They can open an infinite number of spots and the match rate will never be 100%.

Yes, they can become post-docs.

I'd like to add that an IMG-MD without licensure will still go very far in non-physician world. The same goes for DOs and MDs without licensure. You may even find a job that pays more than a doc if you chose to not pursue medicine anymore.
What are some other career options for those that don't match?

Im a US IMG, did my med school from india, second match with no dice....prob gonna give it one more shot with some more USCE and step 3 but after that if things don't work im prob gonna hang up the steth for good....any advice appreciated, thanks
 
Mar 16, 2016
12
7
11
Status
Medical Student
Thanks Elementals. my advanced program hospital has 3 prelim-surgery not filled, my PD said he will contact them, but nothing heard back. I talked with the prelim PD, and was informed that they are not accepting applicants at this point(i applied during main match). i am wondering what is going on with the prelim-surgery? anyone has any insight?
I've seen some programs hanging onto their prelim surgery spots for current prelim PGY1 residents to have a fall back option. Maybe they are doing that at your home program? Tough to tell
 

rokshana

Member
10+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,436
3,293
281
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
Wowwwww. Some hostility towards DOs there?
We are, in fact, US grads. Or are there DO schools in the Caribbean I am unaware of?
not in the eyes of the NRMP...you are an independent applicant...and in the SOAP at a greater disadvantage than the US seniors (US grad)...not hostility from gutonc...but you (meaning DO students) need to understand that when you look at the stats for matching and SOAPing, the US seniors (or US students) do not pertain to you as a DO.
 
Last edited:

rokshana

Member
10+ Year Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,436
3,293
281
Status
Fellow [Any Field]
gutonc, I don't mean to start a fight with an SDN admin, but can you show a little sympathy? I realize from your other posts that you're actually devoting a ton of your time to helping people out, and that you don't necessarily mean to be cruel. Still, even from the sidelines, your words sting.

This is the worst day of some very bright, talented, hardworking people's lives. They've worked very hard for the last 4 years -- or really last 12+, considering the path to medicine really begins with good grades in high school -- only to have their dreams blow up in their faces. While some of these posts definitely make me want to say something hardassed as well, I hold back. No one deserves to not match, and no one deserves to be treated so abrasively while they're already down on their luck.

Please be kind(er). And don't forget that it's getting harder to match every year. If you had to go through the process yourself today, there's no telling where you might end up. There but for the grace of (insert your deity/higher power/The Force of choice) go us all, right?
sunshine and roses on some of these topics is not going to help...for a DO to think that the stats for a USMD student pertains to them is misleading at best...he is just correcting misinformation that is being put out there by someone who either doesn't know the difference or has his ego involved. And at this time, ignoring ANY call is a mistake...in this day and age of cell phones, is there a time or place you cannot have your phone with you? many time the answer is not just an answer to an individual but to inform the others that are reading the post...and unless you are brand spanking new here, you should know that gutonc is not mary poppins...he is not going to use sugar to make the medicine go down...
 
Last edited:

Timmythemic22

Beep Beep Ribby Ribby
10+ Year Member
Dec 28, 2004
1,209
24
261
37
NJ
Status
For all of those that didn't match, for those that matched and are scared out of their wits, I just want you guys to know I've been there. As someone that has already done an intern year in two specialties, had to take time off to work at a GP, and has now matched for this upcoming year, I've been through many battles in my own head, and hit some pretty low points. You are not alone. Sometimes this forum can get pretty dire, and while telling it like it is can be useful to the practical side of us, the emotional/fearful side gets fed as well. Just posting this to let you know that others feel what you feel. Don't sacrifice your humanity for medicine. It's okay to feel sad, to feel you have failed. You've gotten this far, you will succeed in your future as long as you keep pushing. I can't say I have a great deal of practical advice to give, but if anyone needs to reach out, please PM me. I can share some more of my story to you there if it helps, or just provide some moral support.

It's time people within and outside of medicine realize the fallibility of physicians, and we are far too much under scrutiny by institutional boards and hospital execs to admit we get depressed, we get anxious. At least we can start to admit to each other. Don't worry guys, it will work out in some way. There are people that definitely care.
 

goone2524

10+ Year Member
Mar 3, 2007
113
3
241
Status
Resident [Any Field]
For all of those that didn't match, for those that matched and are scared out of their wits, I just want you guys to know I've been there. As someone that has already done an intern year in two specialties, had to take time off to work at a GP, and has now matched for this upcoming year, I've been through many battles in my own head, and hit some pretty low points. You are not alone. Sometimes this forum can get pretty dire, and while telling it like it is can be useful to the practical side of us, the emotional/fearful side gets fed as well. Just posting this to let you know that others feel what you feel. Don't sacrifice your humanity for medicine. It's okay to feel sad, to feel you have failed. You've gotten this far, you will succeed in your future as long as you keep pushing. I can't say I have a great deal of practical advice to give, but if anyone needs to reach out, please PM me. I can share some more of my story to you there if it helps, or just provide some moral support.

It's time people within and outside of medicine realize the fallibility of physicians, and we are far too much under scrutiny by institutional boards and hospital execs to admit we get depressed, we get anxious. At least we can start to admit to each other. Don't worry guys, it will work out in some way. There are people that definitely care.
Exactly, Congrats! And nothing but positivity brother! Not like some trash posts in here. Now that's SMH.
 

neuropsychi

5+ Year Member
Oct 1, 2013
23
5
101
Status
Medical Student
For all of those that didn't match, for those that matched and are scared out of their wits, I just want you guys to know I've been there. As someone that has already done an intern year in two specialties, had to take time off to work at a GP, and has now matched for this upcoming year, I've been through many battles in my own head, and hit some pretty low points. You are not alone. Sometimes this forum can get pretty dire, and while telling it like it is can be useful to the practical side of us, the emotional/fearful side gets fed as well. Just posting this to let you know that others feel what you feel. Don't sacrifice your humanity for medicine. It's okay to feel sad, to feel you have failed. You've gotten this far, you will succeed in your future as long as you keep pushing. I can't say I have a great deal of practical advice to give, but if anyone needs to reach out, please PM me. I can share some more of my story to you there if it helps, or just provide some moral support.

It's time people within and outside of medicine realize the fallibility of physicians, and we are far too much under scrutiny by institutional boards and hospital execs to admit we get depressed, we get anxious. At least we can start to admit to each other. Don't worry guys, it will work out in some way. There are people that definitely care.
good to hear that things went well with you. thanks for the post, it is very heart lightening.
 
  • Like
Reactions: residencyfindme

elementals

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Aug 25, 2008
344
151
281
Status
Resident [Any Field]
For the record (somewhat belated) -- I'm not asking people to lie and offer "sunshine and roses". Truth is always better than false hope. But there are ways to speak tough truths that don't salt the wound, and that's what I objected to.

That said, this is pretty much a moot point now; I actually saw gutonc comment on another thread in a way that was blunt and honest, but not hurtful. So let's not dredge this all back up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: residencyfindme

MastahRiz

10+ Year Member
Nov 24, 2007
92
5
251
Guys don't forget, soap is over but the scramble continues everyday from here until first day of pgy-1 training. That section in the NRMP R3 website still gets updates when there are vacancies posted under the View Unfilled Programs tab. Keep checking it and don't stop until you-know-who starts singing.
 
Mar 21, 2016
3
0
1
Someone give the directions for the mass grave of Match/SOAP/Scramble 2016 victims
Intro: step1&2- >250, Step-3-pass (all first attempt); residency completed in home country; >10 publications; Graduated 6yrs ago but no gap bcoz did residency training.

Got only 7 interviews, only first program was a each program, 2nd n 3rd program were realistic small community hospital for IM, didn't match.

Q.1 Realistically Is Scramble only for AMG/IMG with citizenship or green card? ie. Will programs sponsor a visa during Scramble ?

Q.2 how to improve resume for next year ?ie. I'm on visitor visa , so have to go back soon ?

Q.3 The PDF. List of unfilled programs that we got at end of SOAPA is different from the unfilled programs list on NRMP homepage at end of match( this one kept showing fewer n fewer programs with each match round ). So what programs are unfilled this date; the NRMP list v/s the ECFMG 2016 .PDF report ?
 
OP
aProgDirector

aProgDirector

Pastafarians Unite!
Moderator
10+ Year Member
Oct 11, 2006
8,152
6,738
381
Status
Attending Physician
Intro: step1&2- >250, Step-3-pass (all first attempt); residency completed in home country; >10 publications; Graduated 6yrs ago but no gap bcoz did residency training.

Got only 7 interviews, only first program was a each program, 2nd n 3rd program were realistic small community hospital for IM, didn't match.

Q.1 Realistically Is Scramble only for AMG/IMG with citizenship or green card? ie. Will programs sponsor a visa during Scramble ?

Q.2 how to improve resume for next year ?ie. I'm on visitor visa , so have to go back soon ?

Q.3 The PDF. List of unfilled programs that we got at end of SOAPA is different from the unfilled programs list on NRMP homepage at end of match( this one kept showing fewer n fewer programs with each match round ). So what programs are unfilled this date; the NRMP list v/s the ECFMG 2016 .PDF report ?
I'm hoping you ranked all 7 programs, instead of just 3. If not, you really shot yourself in the foot.

You didn't mention what field you're applying to.

Yes, programs will take you with a visa in the scramble/after the match.

To improve: More US clinical experience, apply to more programs, apply to less competitive field, rank everywhere you interviewed (if not done already)

I don't know anything about an ECFMG PDF. But anything that is "static" is out of date within 24 hours.
 
Mar 21, 2016
3
0
1
I'm hoping you ranked all 7 programs, instead of just 3. If not, you really shot yourself in the foot.

You didn't mention what field you're applying to.

Yes, programs will take you with a visa in the scramble/after the match.

To improve: More US clinical experience, apply to more programs, apply to less competitive field, rank everywhere you interviewed (if not done already)

I don't know anything about an ECFMG PDF. But anything that is "static" is out of date within 24 hours.
Thanks for the reply.!!!

I applied 260 progs 100rad/100IM/30PrelimSx/30PrelimMed
I ranked all the 7 programs; 5IM/1Radio/1prelimSx.

Previous 5 month USCE includes 2 month of clerkship at Harvard. 1month observership at small community hospital for IM , where I did interview too. Had managed to get good Lor's there BUT unfortunately worked in the unit which gets faculty from outside that hospital ie. People who are not on interview panel for that hospital, so there LOR/opinion didn't had the same weight v/s other observers who shadowed the PD & other big shots there.

I wanted to do Radiology, but after this year's experience I think I will do IM first( I am still in denial that I did not match- honestly I was worried what if I match in some places that I didn't want to go but still ranked low; now looking back at it- it would have been the best thing if I matched at the last program on my list too) Got a good reality check.... At the end if the day I am an IMG who needs visa..

Now next year im planning to do IM & complete one residency under my belt and then go for Radiology, if I still feel that strongly about it and my circumstances don't make me cave to start working after my residency. ( constructive criticism on this part will be very valuable )

Q.1 Since I am done with my medical school I can't do clerkships, all I can do is observership. Do they help ? ie. Will doing more observerships help me if a clerkship(which is hands on) fom Harvard couldn't help me- bcoz finances and visa is a concern, have to strike a balance between ideal and feasible.

Q.2 Which one is better:-

doing research at a fancy IV league college where chances of getting an interview are less or
observership at small community hospital which might offer me an interview or

going back to home country and teaching/research/working in a medical college as a faculty till next match ?

I Apologize for the long reply, I can't afford a counselor or a shrink here. This is as good as it gets for a closure/vent out for me.