SOAP 2016 Thread - questions, advice, support

[j4pac]

Question. I SOAP'd into a transitional year (praise the Lord!) in the second round, so now for next year's match am I PGY2? What if I want to go into a specialty that doesn't require a prelim year (pediatrics)? Stats: AMG, failed step 1 on first attempt. Passed everything after that, but all scores below average.

Yes...you will be a PGY2 if you complete your transitional year. If you did not match to an advanced program this cycle...you will need to reapply next year. "Physician spots" are where you should be aiming, as you wouldn't have to repeat an internship and can start right away. But in all reality...you need to be willing to apply to all program types.

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[mrhenry]

Yes...you will be a PGY2 if you complete your transitional year. If you did not match to an advanced program this cycle...you will need to reapply next year. "Physician spots" are where you should be aiming, as you wouldn't have to repeat an internship and can start right away. But in all reality...you need to be willing to apply to all program types.

Thank you! So essentially I am hoping people will transfer out and then I replace them in the 2nd year class in July 2017. Is this all word of mouth or also through ERAS?

 

[artist7]

Successful 3rd round soap into a categorical anesthesiology program!

Hey Congrats!
How many SOAP interviews did you have?

 

[j4pac]

Thank you! So essentially I am hoping people will transfer out and then I replace them in the 2nd year class in July 2017. Is this all word of mouth or also through ERAS?

Look for the "physician" spots next year on ERAS. But again...I would advice getting whatever you can. Physician spots are far and in between. You need to reapply advanced and categorical to improve your odds.

 

[Lucky300]

I
MATCHED
IN ROUND 3

Edit: haha, I was so excited I submitted before I was done typing! I just wanted to say GOOD LUCK to everyone, miracles do happen!!

Congratulations!!!!!!! So happy for you!!!!

 

[blitz88]

Sigh, no calls yet and it's almost the 4th round...

But to those who have been successful, congratulations!

 

[CaliAtenza]

Sigh, no calls yet and it's almost the 4th round...

But to those who have been successful, congratulations!

No calls yet for me either . Hopefully there will be some preliminary surgery spots left over.

 

[KEKE.COM]

No calls yet for me either . Hopefully there will be some preliminary surgery spots left over.

Me too. No calls yet. Please give me a preliminary general surgery spot!

 

[Prog86]

Just posted on SDN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...cy-in-florida-accepting-applications.1181511/

We are very excited to announce that Blake Medical Center has received notice of initial accreditation from the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) to sponsor an Internal Medicine residency training program with 45 slots. Our inaugural class of 15 Internal Medicine residents will begin training in July 2016. We are in the process of getting this new program set-up in ERAS and NRMP. We are posting updates about the application process and program info on our facebook page @ https://www.facebook.com/BlakeGME/. Interested candidates should refer to that page for the most up to date information.

Blake Medical Center is located in Bradenton, Florida. Known for its balmy weather, Bradenton is centrally located on Florida’s west coast between Tampa and Sarasota. The area is surrounded by waterways, both fresh and saltwater. Along the Gulf of Mexico and into Tampa Bay are over 20 miles of beaches. Bordered on the north by the Manatee River, Bradenton is located on the mainland and is separated from the outer barrier islands of Anna Maria Island and Longboat Key by the Intercoastal waterway.

 

[DrMeowMeow]

Just posted on SDN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...cy-in-florida-accepting-applications.1181511/

We are very excited to announce that Blake Medical Center has received notice of initial accreditation from the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) to sponsor an Internal Medicine residency training program with 45 slots. Our inaugural class of 15 Internal Medicine residents will begin training in July 2016. We are in the process of getting this new program set-up in ERAS and NRMP. We are posting updates about the application process and program info on our facebook page @ https://www.facebook.com/BlakeGME/. Interested candidates should refer to that page for the most up to date information.

Blake Medical Center is located in Bradenton, Florida. Known for its balmy weather, Bradenton is centrally located on Florida’s west coast between Tampa and Sarasota. The area is surrounded by waterways, both fresh and saltwater. Along the Gulf of Mexico and into Tampa Bay are over 20 miles of beaches. Bordered on the north by the Manatee River, Bradenton is located on the mainland and is separated from the outer barrier islands of Anna Maria Island and Longboat Key by the Intercoastal waterway.

Unfortunately it seems like they've filled all their slots already since Monday.


Blake Medical Center Graduate Medical Education
March 14 at 11:08am ·


We are absolutely on Cloud 9 right now as we very happily report that we filled all 15 of our residency slots!!! Thanks everyone for all of your interest and support over the last few months. Looking forward to finding out on Friday who will be joining our family! ‪#‎match2016‬

 

[neuropsychi]

No calls yet for me either . Hopefully there will be some preliminary surgery spots left over.

same boat here...

 

[Blinky123]

Just posted on SDN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...cy-in-florida-accepting-applications.1181511/

We are very excited to announce that Blake Medical Center has received notice of initial accreditation from the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) to sponsor an Internal Medicine residency training program with 45 slots. Our inaugural class of 15 Internal Medicine residents will begin training in July 2016. We are in the process of getting this new program set-up in ERAS and NRMP. We are posting updates about the application process and program info on our facebook page @ https://www.facebook.com/BlakeGME/. Interested candidates should refer to that page for the most up to date information.

Blake Medical Center is located in Bradenton, Florida. Known for its balmy weather, Bradenton is centrally located on Florida’s west coast between Tampa and Sarasota. The area is surrounded by waterways, both fresh and saltwater. Along the Gulf of Mexico and into Tampa Bay are over 20 miles of beaches. Bordered on the north by the Manatee River, Bradenton is located on the mainland and is separated from the outer barrier islands of Anna Maria Island and Longboat Key by the Intercoastal waterway.

They matched all of their positions

 

[PM&Raspirant]

There should be a POKE button beside each program in ERAS.

 

[stephenpeters2]

Still No calls for me....
its not over. This is a boxing match. You have to take the hits, get up and continue to the next round.

 

[playingfrombehind]

Just posted on SDN:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...cy-in-florida-accepting-applications.1181511/

We are very excited to announce that Blake Medical Center has received notice of initial accreditation from the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) to sponsor an Internal Medicine residency training program with 45 slots. Our inaugural class of 15 Internal Medicine residents will begin training in July 2016. We are in the process of getting this new program set-up in ERAS and NRMP. We are posting updates about the application process and program info on our facebook page @ https://www.facebook.com/BlakeGME/. Interested candidates should refer to that page for the most up to date information.

Blake Medical Center is located in Bradenton, Florida. Known for its balmy weather, Bradenton is centrally located on Florida’s west coast between Tampa and Sarasota. The area is surrounded by waterways, both fresh and saltwater. Along the Gulf of Mexico and into Tampa Bay are over 20 miles of beaches. Bordered on the north by the Manatee River, Bradenton is located on the mainland and is separated from the outer barrier islands of Anna Maria Island and Longboat Key by the Intercoastal waterway.

I like how the selling point for this program is not the city/program amenities or educational offerings or faculty/people but the geographical description ("...surrounded by waterways....along the gulf of Mexico...bordered on the north...located on the mainland...")

 

[CaliAtenza]

I like how the selling point for this program is not the city/program amenities or educational offerings or faculty/people but the geographical description ("...surrounded by waterways....along the gulf of Mexico...bordered on the north...located on the mainland...")

I applied to the program this cycle and they got like 2,000 applications. A friend of mine got an IV there cause she's a Florida resident. I didn't get one, however .

 

[NotAProgDirector]

jesus christ, theres like nothing left in the SOAP

This follows the pattern we saw last year. Most spots were gone after rounds 1 and 2, but some spots were left (and some people obtained offers) all the way to the 5th round.

I appreciate the feedback. This is not her first MI, and she's currently in the ICU. There are other issues at hand involving her care that I won't go into.

I'd prefer if answers could address the real question though: Can I withdraw and stay at my current program? I see that the penalties of match violation do not address that issue. I am a PGY-1, if I stayed I'd probably just finish up at my current program and follow this career path (I'm not miserable at my program). In that regard, I wouldn't need the NRMP again. The website states as penalties the following:

• One year bar from accepting or starting a position in any program sponsored by a Match-participating institution
• One to three year or permanent bar from participation in future NRMP Matches
• One to three year or permanent identification in the R3 system as a Match violator

I also don't want to screw the program I just accepted to go to. I want them to get back to searching for candidates as soon as possible.

If we decide to stay, I'll probably contact NRMP directly and ask for an expedited waiver of commitment (if that exists)

This is a complicated question. Sure, you can always violate your match commitment and just plan to never match again. But your PROGRAM could be considered a match violator for keeping you, and they could be excluded from the match. I'm sure they like you, but probably not enough for that. You can always apply for a match waiver and see what happens -- but that will take some time, and your current program may be unwilling to hold your spot for that long.

That's what I don't get. WTF will there be for us tomorrow after 3 rounds if we weren't called? I just looked at that list, again - it really is pathetic.

I'm an AMG who had to delay residency for a spouse, so I have the dreaded previous grad status. If there are enough people left without jobs, what the hell happens? Class action? Should we start our own residency program in rural Missouri?

Being a "previous grad" isn't a huge red flag. Lots of previous grads are in that category because their applications have problems and they failed to match in their first year, so it's no surprise they will have trouble in their 2nd match attempt. But if you are an AMG without huge problems, and take a gap year and do something useful with it, most programs will happily consider you for a spot.

I expect your suggestion of a class action was hyperbole, but you have no right to a job, I don't see what you plan to sue over. You can keep looking for a position, hope a program opens a new position, or that someone can't start due to a problem, etc. or you could try to challenge an H visa -- I have no idea if that's realistic or not.

Question. I SOAP'd into a transitional year (praise the Lord!) in the second round, so now for next year's match am I PGY2? What if I want to go into a specialty that doesn't require a prelim year (pediatrics)? Stats: AMG, failed step 1 on first attempt. Passed everything after that, but all scores below average.

If you want to go into Peds, you'll need to start as a PGY-1. You will get minimal credit for your TY. Even if you wanted to go into IM or FM, you'll probably need to start as a PGY-1 (you might get 6 months of credit). credit is completely up to your new program -- they could decide to give you none.

 

[plasmacartwheel]

This follows the pattern we saw last year. Most spots were gone after rounds 1 and 2, but some spots were left (and some people obtained offers) all the way to the 5th round.



This is a complicated question. Sure, you can always violate your match commitment and just plan to never match again. But your PROGRAM could be considered a match violator for keeping you, and they could be excluded from the match. I'm sure they like you, but probably not enough for that. You can always apply for a match waiver and see what happens -- but that will take some time, and your current program may be unwilling to hold your spot for that long.



Being a "previous grad" isn't a huge red flag. Lots of previous grads are in that category because their applications have problems and they failed to match in their first year, so it's no surprise they will have trouble in their 2nd match attempt. But if you are an AMG without huge problems, and take a gap year and do something useful with it, most programs will happily consider you for a spot.

I expect your suggestion of a class action was hyperbole, but you have no right to a job, I don't see what you plan to sue over. You can keep looking for a position, hope a program opens a new position, or that someone can't start due to a problem, etc. or you could try to challenge an H visa -- I have no idea if that's realistic or not.



If you want to go into Peds, you'll need to start as a PGY-1. You will get minimal credit for your TY. Even if you wanted to go into IM or FM, you'll probably need to start as a PGY-1 (you might get 6 months of credit). credit is completely up to your new program -- they could decide to give you none.

A lawsuit is easy and has nothing to do with entitlement to a job. It has everything to do with training people for jobs that DO NOT EXIST. This has already been an issue for exploitative institutions that take on students and allow them to collect debt for unmarketable degrees. Sound familiar?

1. Schools are being accredited and allowed to open, increasing graduate numbers.
2. Congress passed the BBA in 1997 freezing residency positions at 1996 levels.
3. Congress has since shot down two bills to fix this in the House
4. Schools continue to open and increase rolls, graduating students with massive debt and no reasonable expectation to recover that debt in another capacity (a.k.a. CANNOT BE LICENSED)

Until residency spots are increased or a fifth year is added to the medical curriculum to allow licensing, this will be a ripe lawsuit to bring against congress, the accrediting bodies, the schools, and possibly others.

 

[playingfrombehind]

I applied to the program this cycle and they got like 2,000 applications. A friend of mine got an IV there cause she's a Florida resident. I didn't get one, however .

yeah the south for me was so competitive, only got a handful of interviews and I applied mostly to the South since my family is there

 

[plasmacartwheel]

(*)

 

[Law2Doc]

Question. I SOAP'd into a transitional year (praise the Lord!) in the second round, so now for next year's match am I PGY2? What if I want to go into a specialty that doesn't require a prelim year (pediatrics)? Stats: AMG, failed step 1 on first attempt. Passed everything after that, but all scores below average.

You will still end up applying for categorical (pgy1) positions, so not much advantage already having done a PGY1. But next year you have the added selling point to programs of looser duty hour requirements, so in your first peds year they can technically keep you 24 hrs in a row in the hospital if they need to, unlike your pgy1 peers.

 

[Law2Doc]

But I will do you one better. I am going to go talk to a lawyer about this. I'll let you know how it goes.

You can sue, but unless you can show some breach of duty or discrimination I don't see where you will survive dismissal. That being said, filing such suit will pretty much close all doors for you for the future in this career so make sure it's your last resort.

 

[j4pac]

A lawsuit is easy and has nothing to do with entitlement to a job. It has everything to do with training people for jobs that DO NOT EXIST. This has already been an issue for exploitative institutions that take on students and allow them to collect debt for unmarketable degrees. Sound familiar?

1. Schools are being accredited and allowed to open, increasing graduate numbers.
2. Congress passed the BBA in 1997 freezing residency positions at 1996 levels.
3. Congress has since shot down two bills to fix this in the House
4. Schools continue to open and increase rolls, graduating students with massive debt and no reasonable expectation to recover that debt in another capacity (a.k.a. CANNOT BE LICENSED)

Until residency spots are increased or a fifth year is added to the medical curriculum to allow licensing, this will be a ripe lawsuit to bring against congress, the accrediting bodies, the schools, and possibly others.

Who are you going to sue? Congress? ACGME? The booming number of IMG med schools?

The mass majority of AMGs are failing to match because of unrealistic expectations. They either don't apply broadly enough or to unrealistic specialties. They then have the option to SOAP or wait a year. With proper match strategy...the match rate for AMGs would be damn near 100%. DO typically fail to match due to unrealistic expectations as well...deciding to not go AOA and risk it for the NRMP. But DOs typically have the opportunity to scramble after the SOAP...and they can have a good chance of matching the following year by going AOA.

IMG is a different animal. Do people entering the IMG scenario not know the risks that they are assuming by attending? I find that hard to believe. The mass majority know the risks and go anyway...and then when they either attrite or don't match...the mass majority don't want to run off and sue. They are pissed...realizing the horrible investment that was IMG...but they don't blame everyone else for their decision. I'm sorry that the IMG situation sucks so much...and yes they are exploiting you...but the exploitation is well known by the people entering the contract.

By the looks of things...it appears that residency programs will be even more restrictive to IMGs in the future...and that's probably a good thing. It will hopefully prevent students from being enticed to going into the scam in the first place. They can open an infinite number of spots and the match rate will never be 100%.

 

[MCATbound]

Why does a particular IM residency in the east still have over a dozen slots left round after round? Are they not participating in the SOAP even though they are included within the unfilled positions and ERAS?

 

[MCATbound]

Who are you going to sue? Congress? ACGME? The booming number of IMG med schools?

The mass majority of AMGs are failing to match because of unrealistic expectations. They either don't apply broadly enough or to unrealistic specialties. They then have the option to SOAP or wait a year. With proper match strategy...the match rate for AMGs would be damn near 100%. DO typically fail to match due to unrealistic expectations as well...deciding to not go AOA and risk it for the NRMP. But DOs typically have the opportunity to scramble after the SOAP...and they can have a good chance of matching the following year by going AOA.

IMG is a different animal. Do people entering the IMG scenario not know the risks that they are assuming by attending? I find that hard to believe. The mass majority know the risks and go anyway...and then when they either attrite or don't match...the mass majority don't want to run off and sue. They are pissed...realizing the horrible investment that was IMG...but they don't blame everyone else for their decision. I'm sorry that the IMG situation sucks so much...and yes they are exploiting you...but the exploitation is well known by the people entering the contract.

By the looks of things...it appears that residency programs will be even more restrictive to IMGs in the future...and that's probably a good thing. It will hopefully prevent students from being enticed to going into the scam in the first place. They can open an infinite number of spots and the match rate will never be 100%.

I'd like to add that an IMG-MD without licensure will still go very far in non-physician world. The same goes for DOs and MDs without licensure. You may even find a job that pays more than a doc if you chose to not pursue medicine anymore.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I'd like to add that an IMG-MD without licensure will still go very far in non-physician world. The same goes for DOs and MDs without licensure. You may even find a job that pays more than a doc if you chose to not pursue medicine anymore.

No, they won't get far with a Caribbean MD degree without residency. All of these nonclinical MD jobs are not that numerous and you have a non-zero number of US MD/DO grads that are interested in those that would have a benefit over the IMG candidate. Nevermind all the debt that you have for the Caribbean school. It's a recipe for financial disaster if you don't have a residency.

 

[elementals]

There's also always research for IMGs. It's not as lucrative as consulting or the pharm industry can be, but it can be very rewarding if you like it. I know several IMGs who have pursued excellent research careers that sometimes still allowed them to work with patients, albeit in a different way, and achieved great satisfaction in knowing they're making a long-term difference. That said, these are all "true" IMGs (not Caribbean MDs) who were typically highly successful individuals already at or near attending level at home.

 

[Sea_Bass]

No, they won't get far with a Caribbean MD degree without residency. All of these nonclinical MD jobs are not that numerous and you have a non-zero number of US MD/DO grads that are interested in those that would have a benefit over the IMG candidate. Nevermind all the debt that you have for the Caribbean school. It's a recipe for financial disaster if you don't have a residency.

+1

If you are a Carib student and don't enter a residency, your MD isn't worth much at all.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

A lawsuit is easy and has nothing to do with entitlement to a job. It has everything to do with training people for jobs that DO NOT EXIST. This has already been an issue for exploitative institutions that take on students and allow them to collect debt for unmarketable degrees. Sound familiar?

1. Schools are being accredited and allowed to open, increasing graduate numbers.
2. Congress passed the BBA in 1997 freezing residency positions at 1996 levels.
3. Congress has since shot down two bills to fix this in the House
4. Schools continue to open and increase rolls, graduating students with massive debt and no reasonable expectation to recover that debt in another capacity (a.k.a. CANNOT BE LICENSED)

Until residency spots are increased or a fifth year is added to the medical curriculum to allow licensing, this will be a ripe lawsuit to bring against congress, the accrediting bodies, the schools, and possibly others.

You have no case.

There are more residency spots than US MD spots. Given that, there is a spot that potentially exists for you as a MD graduate. That competition with DO, IMG, and FMG candidates is present does not mean that you are guaranteed a spot. Just like you can graduate from college and be qualified for a job, that doesn't mean you will get one.

 

[pipe83]

For any DOs that are having absolutely no luck in the SOAP, here are new osteo positions posted today.. Make sure you apply as soon as the clock strikes 500 if interested ..categorical FM 1, GS 1, and TRI 1

LECOMT/Meadville Medical Ctr - Family Medicine Residency (156955) [email protected] Phone: (814) 333-5461 Meadville, PA

CORE/Western Reserve Hospital - Surgery-General (126187) [email protected] Phone: (330) 971-7271 Cuyahoga Falls, OH

LECOMT/Meadville Medical Ctr - Internship Training (125231) [email protected] Phone: (814) 333-5461

 

[MCATbound]

+1

If you are a Carib student and don't enter a residency, your MD isn't worth much at all.

This is anecdotal, but I have almost a dozen friends from all walks of life who have been able to begin careers in hospitals in Southern California as HR employees, assistant medical directors or careers in business (with an MBA) for-profit and non-profit health organizations.

The possibilities are endless if you have a Caribbean MD degree coupled with or without another advanced degree. You may not get to see patients or make 400k/year in your lifetime, but you could continue your philanthropy work or money-driven lifestyle (whichever you prefer or something in between that spectrum) if you stay motivated, accept your obstacles and have pride in what you have achieved.

Anyone who says an MD from a Caribbean isn't worth much at all is mistaken if you consider the substantial pay raise you would receive, holding everything else constant, with and without the degree (subtracting all the debt you accrue and pay off during your lifetime, too.) Also consider the assumption that an individual who would spend many years of their life to pursue a Caribbean MD degree with the strong possibility of not matching is possibly more motivated than the average person in betting on themselves to become successful in whatever they choose to do. The opposite is true and they might fall flat on their face, but whatever. Stay flexible, stay positive friends.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

This is anecdotal, but I have almost a dozen friends from all walks of life who have been able to begin careers in hospitals in Southern California as HR employees, assistant medical directors or careers in business (with an MBA) for-profit and non-profit health organizations.

The possibilities are endless if you have a Caribbean MD degree coupled with or without another advanced degree. You may not get to see patients or make 400k/year in your lifetime, but you could continue your philanthropy work or money-driven lifestyle (whichever you prefer or something in between that spectrum) if you stay motivated, accept your obstacles and have pride in what you have achieved.

Anyone who says an MD from a Caribbean isn't worth much at all is mistaken if you consider the substantial pay raise you would receive, holding everything else constant, with and without the degree (subtracting all the debt you accrue and pay off during your lifetime, too.) Also consider the assumption that an individual who would spend many years of their life to pursue a Caribbean MD degree with the strong possibility of not matching is possibly more motivated than the average person in betting on themselves to become successful in whatever they choose to do. The opposite is true and they might fall flat on their face, but whatever. Stay flexible, stay positive friends.

And take into account the $250,000+ in debt from loans on this. The risks are high...

 

[EaglesAllDay]

What are some other career options for those that don't match?

Im a US IMG, did my med school from india, second match with no dice....prob gonna give it one more shot with some more USCE and step 3 but after that if things don't work im prob gonna hang up the steth for good....any advice appreciated, thanks

 

[JeninMD]

Why does a particular IM residency in the east still have over a dozen slots left round after round? Are they not participating in the SOAP even though they are included within the unfilled positions and ERAS?

I'd like to know why this is so, too... Anyone have some insight?

 

[j4pac]

This is anecdotal, but I have almost a dozen friends from all walks of life who have been able to begin careers in hospitals in Southern California as HR employees, assistant medical directors or careers in business (with an MBA) for-profit and non-profit health organizations.

The possibilities are endless if you have a Caribbean MD degree coupled with or without another advanced degree. You may not get to see patients or make 400k/year in your lifetime, but you could continue your philanthropy work or money-driven lifestyle (whichever you prefer or something in between that spectrum) if you stay motivated, accept your obstacles and have pride in what you have achieved.

Anyone who says an MD from a Caribbean isn't worth much at all is mistaken if you consider the substantial pay raise you would receive, holding everything else constant, with and without the degree (subtracting all the debt you accrue and pay off during your lifetime, too.) Also consider the assumption that an individual who would spend many years of their life to pursue a Caribbean MD degree with the strong possibility of not matching is possibly more motivated than the average person in betting on themselves to become successful in whatever they choose to do. The opposite is true and they might fall flat on their face, but whatever. Stay flexible, stay positive friends.

But is it the person who got the job...or was it the degree? Of course life isn't over for someone who is motivated and hardworking. But the debt isn't worth the initials without residency. I know you are trying to be uplifting and that is fine...I just hoping that the naive future IMG applicants that read this forum know what they are getting into.

 

[j4pac]

What are some other career options for those that don't match?

Im a US IMG, did my med school from india, second match with no dice....prob gonna give it one more shot with some more USCE and step 3 but after that if things don't work im prob gonna hang up the steth for good....any advice appreciated, thanks

Can't you practice in India?

 

[deleted284725]

Hey Congrats!
How many SOAP interviews did you have?

I had 1 Anesthesia interview, 1 PM&R interview, and one Surgical Pre-lim interview

 

[CaliAtenza]

Can't you practice in India?

An MBBS (MD) there is useless (you could be a GP but no one would come see you). You'd have to do residency and fellowship as well. Fortunately, if you have the money, you can pay for a residency spot.

 

[CaliAtenza]

I'd like to know why this is so, too... Anyone have some insight?

I'm wondering that as well. I'm suspecting they are gonna just have a free for all after the SOAP....

 

[j4pac]

An MBBS (MD) there is useless (you could be a GP but no one would come see you). You'd have to do residency and fellowship as well. Fortunately, if you have the money, you can pay for a residency spot.

Wow. That suck. What a horrible system. Good luck next year.

 

[playingfrombehind]

This is anecdotal, but I have almost a dozen friends from all walks of life who have been able to begin careers in hospitals in Southern California as HR employees, assistant medical directors or careers in business (with an MBA) for-profit and non-profit health organizations.

The possibilities are endless if you have a Caribbean MD degree coupled with or without another advanced degree. You may not get to see patients or make 400k/year in your lifetime, but you could continue your philanthropy work or money-driven lifestyle (whichever you prefer or something in between that spectrum) if you stay motivated, accept your obstacles and have pride in what you have achieved.

Anyone who says an MD from a Caribbean isn't worth much at all is mistaken if you consider the substantial pay raise you would receive, holding everything else constant, with and without the degree (subtracting all the debt you accrue and pay off during your lifetime, too.) Also consider the assumption that an individual who would spend many years of their life to pursue a Caribbean MD degree with the strong possibility of not matching is possibly more motivated than the average person in betting on themselves to become successful in whatever they choose to do. The opposite is true and they might fall flat on their face, but whatever. Stay flexible, stay positive friends.

I wouldn't say that with a carribean MD degree that "...possibilities are endless". Having a carribean MD is a major disadvantage when applying to residency and SOAP. And the reality is people who are familiar or not familar with carribean schools still look down on carribean schools.

The reality is US MD school > carribean...that's just the mindset of all PDs. And chances of residency for carribean students is < US students. Those are just the facts.

As with any MD degree your degree is only worth something if you get a residency. I think Carribean med schools don't do a good job of telling people the failure rate and the success rate of med students getting into residency. I went to a few of the big 3 presentations as a college student and visited their websites absolutely no info on how many people drop out and residency match rate. They love to highlight step 1 pass score though

 

[Henle's Loop]

But is it the person who got the job...or was it the degree? Of course life isn't over for someone who is motivated and hardworking. But the debt isn't worth the initials without residency. I know you are trying to be uplifting and that is fine...I just hoping that the naive future IMG applicants that read this forum know what they are getting into.

Having said that, I'm a carib grad didn't match this year. I've been fortunate enough to work for 2 of the top three Institutions as ranked by US News world report, as a bench researcher with decent pay. I'm still with one of the institutions. I don't think my "MD Degree" had anything to do with it and frankly they could care less about it. I got in by sheer persistence and people who vouched for my clinical and academic skills. Once I was in, the world was my oyster as long as I kept on learning. I got to publish papers, present at national conferences, and most importantly learn from some of really awesome people. It's like being a kid out of college looking for a job. So overall, it came down to me and knowing what's out there that I like and running with it. I will be applying again next year.

Can I make a living and start a family, probably not. I know it's a stopgap for me to learn more, be competitive, and hopefully give back to the field one day- when I do match. I agree with you in saying a carib MD means very little without residency.

 

[playingfrombehind]

What are some other career options for those that don't match?

Im a US IMG, did my med school from india, second match with no dice....prob gonna give it one more shot with some more USCE and step 3 but after that if things don't work im prob gonna hang up the steth for good....any advice appreciated, thanks

-Do you have a mentor/advisor that you can sit down with to ID why you haven't matched at all? i.e. VISA issues, lack of USCE, low USMLE scores, etc.
-It is imperative that you have someone in the know that can help you ID your weaknesses objectively so you can resolve them before wasting another year.
-Depending on what you applied for I can assure that you may have already been filtered and your app never saw the day of light simply to being an IMG especially if you have low step scores.

My recommendation is on your year off it is important to do the following in no particular order

1) Step 3
2) actual clinical research w/ publications
3) clinical job - externship >>> observership (hands on clinical experience), scribe, etc.
4) graduate degrees IMO are pretty useless unless you have publications, substantial project, something to show for (not just a piece of paper)
5) establish relationships with PDs, people in the know - for alot of IMGs this is the only way they get interviews - e-mail people and ask if they are willing to let you observe/extern and then impress
6) resolve any VISA issues, try to get your green card/US-citizenship if applicable

 

[CaliAtenza]

Wow. That suck. What a horrible system. Good luck next year.

I'm in the same situation as well. US-IMG, went to India for med school, and didn't match this year on the first try (had 9 IV's across 3 specialities). I'm gonna try and get an unfilled surgery prelim spot post-SOAP, but other than that, not sure what to do yet.

Medicine in India is a horrible system. Residency (PG) spots there are no where near enough for the amount of doctors that graduate every year, and as such there is immense competition. Many residency spots can cost upwards of the equivalent of $150,000 to $200,000, if you are willing to pay full freight. Now, if you are a brilliant applicant, you could get in with a scholarship or a cheaper payment for the spot. All in all, it sucks. Quite a few doctors there are scummy and augment their practices with money making schemes that they run on their poor patients.

 

[playingfrombehind]

But is it the person who got the job...or was it the degree? Of course life isn't over for someone who is motivated and hardworking. But the debt isn't worth the initials without residency. I know you are trying to be uplifting and that is fine...I just hoping that the naive future IMG applicants that read this forum know what they are getting into.

I would say it is a combination of the person and the carribean degree - the carribena degree already puts you at a major major disadvantage. If you compound on top of that a person with low steps, poor grades, and horrific interviews (needle that usually breaks the camel's back) then you have a recipe for disaster.

BUt I would say the carribean degree already puts you at a major disadvantage. So in my case I'm a USMD my success rate of getting interviews was about 70% (~70 interview invites out of about 100 apps) even with low step scores, USMLE failure, etc. IF I were a carribean MD I don't think I would stand a chance to be honest. So in my case the degree was the biggest reason I matchecd.

 

[neuropsychi]

any one got any offer at round 5?

 

[EaglesAllDay]

Can't you practice in India?

Like Cali said above you can become a gp or do a residency there but i have zero desire of going to india...im def staying here at home, just wondering what options I have if I decide to do something else

-Do you have a mentor/advisor that you can sit down with to ID why you haven't matched at all? i.e. VISA issues, lack of USCE, low USMLE scores, etc.
-It is imperative that you have someone in the know that can help you ID your weaknesses objectively so you can resolve them before wasting another year.
-Depending on what you applied for I can assure that you may have already been filtered and your app never saw the day of light simply to being an IMG especially if you have low step scores.

My recommendation is on your year off it is important to do the following in no particular order

1) Step 3
2) actual clinical research w/ publications
3) clinical job - externship >>> observership (hands on clinical experience), scribe, etc.
4) graduate degrees IMO are pretty useless unless you have publications, substantial project, something to show for (not just a piece of paper)
5) establish relationships with PDs, people in the know - for alot of IMGs this is the only way they get interviews - e-mail people and ask if they are willing to let you observe/extern and then impress
6) resolve any VISA issues, try to get your green card/US-citizenship if applicable

Thanks for the advice...yeah my scores are below average (210,212), applied for IM and psych had 5 interviews, have some connections to the programs where I got interviewed, everything went well I feel had good feedback from people that interviewed me and thru the connections but just guess wasn't ranked high enough....most programs did harp on why I hadn't completed step 3 yet so thats my first objective and i've alredy tried to line up some more hands on exp in an IM program which offers it....I'm already a citizen

 

[x2016x]

How late do we think programs will be open tonight to email or call?

 

[lemontilt]

any one got any offer at round 5?

Nope

 

[residencyfindme]

Nope

Does anyone know what time we can begin contacting programs? Is it right at 5 pm when the final soap round ends, or does it start at 6 pm EDT? Thank you