SOAP 2017 Thread

[Aqua_Vitae]

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It's a sick "keeping up with the Jones" mentality that is rooted in pride. I'm a doctor, my friends are doctors, their kids are doctors, my son better damn well be a doctor. Why? So I can brag about my son to my friends when they brag about their kids. And within the community, this feeling self perpetuates because it is a form of social proof. A caste system really.

I grew up exposed to the "fact" that being a Doctor is the ultimate, greatest, be all end all, career. It took me until my 3rd year, talking to my counselor to realize that this is just a twisted opinion and nothing else. I had a wonderful career before (non-traditional), but the minute I hit some roadblocks there, I reverted to the "fact" that maybe I should have gone to Medical School as my parents insisted.

And now here I am. All alone on a cold winter night after a snowstorm with nothing to show for this greatest of all careers. I had a date with a beautiful gal whom I had to cancel on for this SOAP. Don't get me wrong, it is my fault and I take the blame for not having good enough scores. But that's the point, it's not at all dandy as the picture that was painted. I just never ever appreciated or thought about the risks. Because the rewards were infinitely greater supposedly.

I think this is my favorite quote of the thread. Very interesting and great points.

So I've already experienced several programs that have put their phones to automatic voicemail, with the mailboxes full. Lol

I understand their position, but what the hell are we supposed to do as we wait?

Go to the gym.. that's what I'm gonna do (I haven't been in 3 days). Waiting and stressing is for soap, now you can only hope for a program to randomly open up a position and for you to randomly hear about it thru swaparesid, word of mouth, etc. One time last year in May I tried to get a pgy-1 position that I found out thru word of mouth. No luck calling and they didn't respond to emails. I drove 3 hours and hand delivered it and got my school to email my lors (since I couldn't contact thru eras, and lors are waived obv). The PC or secretary or whoever I gave my app to was stressed as she had been getting so many calls and emails and literally thousands of apps.

Turns out they weren't really looking for a position, or they were, but only someone super excellent and did not want word of mouth to get out and get like 3k apps. Ultimately the PD decided to just be short one resident July 1.

My advice is to look for 2 kinds of work starting Monday:

1) Work in the medical field: This is NOT getting PA jobs, pharm companies, can I be a nurse?, or a half doc in missouri>?..... NO. F THAT! Those jobs all want multi-year commitments and have additional training, requirements, licenses, etc. And if you want to be a PA you should do it because you want to be a PA more than a doctor, not as a stepping stone cause it's only a stepping stone for getting INTO medical school NOT residency. Now, by work in the medical field I mean preparing Monday for next year's MATCH!! You are a doctor and the jobs doctors get are available after you complete residency. That's how it works and I'm in the same position as you. Hammer your dean of student affairs as it is their job to help you match! Contact every PD you interviewed with/applied to and ask how you can improve. They allow 4 LORs make sure they are all great and all in your field. I could go on but you get the point that looking for "work in the medical field" is essentially improving your app to land a position.

2) Work not in the medical field: Your degree is your street credit and tells people you are smart and hardworking. You will find people just find it interesting when a "doctor" is looking for work in their field. You don't have to make much, you just gotta pay some bills for 9 months or so. I'm gonna warn you that you gotta be very creative and/or humble. Ok, you are a doctor and trying to find work as a doctor (a residency). This is a noble pursuit no matter who you talk to. But what else are you good at that can maybe bring in $$. You referenced talents in your quote above as you had a job before no? So, you are lucky, and may not need to be as creative as I've had to be in the past. Sometimes the humility comes when you wake up every morning asking the question, "how can I put food on the table today?"

This SOAP week was bad and certainly a tough time in my life. I've had a crazy, interesting life and have faced more difficult times than this though. I guess I feel bad for the kids who are like 27 years old and this is the first kinda bad thing that's happened to them.

It's kinda just a game. Next year you will play it better and win.

 

[galgr]

what's an AOA residency?

Nevermind- i googled it.

CAn one then apply for a "regular" pgy-2?

 

[ClinPathDO]

what's an AOA residency?

Nevermind- i googled it.

CAn one then apply for a "regular" pgy-2?

If you did a pgy1 intern year that meets the requirements for the pgy2 position.

 

[cnn200]

Guys I did not match last year despite 12+ IVs in psychiatry/IM. I got plenty of love letters last year and I was shocked. I didn't get anything in SOAP as you can imagine most do not get anything. I kept myself busy in MPH that I have been doing and some clinical engagement such as spending time with attending.

I was so scared for this match. I ended up doing 20 IVs total and I matched!!
I do not think my IVs were much different than last year, and I am pretty good with my interview skills.
I heard a couple of programs ranked me pretty well but I was just unlucky.

Match is ALL draw of the luck. It is literally like a lottery. There are so many factors out of your control. Try you best and leave it to God. I saw this year some great USMDs with many IVs didn't match and some terrible applicants with attempts had no issue matching.

My advise is to be strong! Improve yourself via research and stay clinically intact.

 

[zyxab]

I think this is my favorite quote of the thread. Very interesting and great points.



Go to the gym.. that's what I'm gonna do (I haven't been in 3 days). Waiting and stressing is for soap, now you can only hope for a program to randomly open up a position and for you to randomly hear about it thru swaparesid, word of mouth, etc. One time last year in May I tried to get a pgy-1 position that I found out thru word of mouth. No luck calling and they didn't respond to emails. I drove 3 hours and hand delivered it and got my school to email my lors (since I couldn't contact thru eras, and lors are waived obv). The PC or secretary or whoever I gave my app to was stressed as she had been getting so many calls and emails and literally thousands of apps.

Turns out they weren't really looking for a position, or they were, but only someone super excellent and did not want word of mouth to get out and get like 3k apps. Ultimately the PD decided to just be short one resident July 1.

My advice is to look for 2 kinds of work starting Monday:

1) Work in the medical field: This is NOT getting PA jobs, pharm companies, can I be a nurse?, or a half doc in missouri>?..... NO. F THAT! Those jobs all want multi-year commitments and have additional training, requirements, licenses, etc. And if you want to be a PA you should do it because you want to be a PA more than a doctor, not as a stepping stone cause it's only a stepping stone for getting INTO medical school NOT residency. Now, by work in the medical field I mean preparing Monday for next year's MATCH!! You are a doctor and the jobs doctors get are available after you complete residency. That's how it works and I'm in the same position as you. Hammer your dean of student affairs as it is their job to help you match! Contact every PD you interviewed with/applied to and ask how you can improve. They allow 4 LORs make sure they are all great and all in your field. I could go on but you get the point that looking for "work in the medical field" is essentially improving your app to land a position.

2) Work not in the medical field: Your degree is your street credit and tells people you are smart and hardworking. You will find people just find it interesting when a "doctor" is looking for work in their field. You don't have to make much, you just gotta pay some bills for 9 months or so. I'm gonna warn you that you gotta be very creative and/or humble. Ok, you are a doctor and trying to find work as a doctor (a residency). This is a noble pursuit no matter who you talk to. But what else are you good at that can maybe bring in $$. You referenced talents in your quote above as you had a job before no? So, you are lucky, and may not need to be as creative as I've had to be in the past. Sometimes the humility comes when you wake up every morning asking the question, "how can I put food on the table today?"

This SOAP week was bad and certainly a tough time in my life. I've had a crazy, interesting life and have faced more difficult times than this though. I guess I feel bad for the kids who are like 27 years old and this is the first kinda bad thing that's happened to them.

It's kinda just a game. Next year you will play it better and win.

This is the part of SDN where the true knowledge is imparted. Life will sucker punch everyone, eventually. For many in this thread, that time is now. For others, it'll be tomorrow, next month or in a few years. Just remember, the vast majority of you are young and healthy. Though you may have been knocked down, you're fully capable of getting back up. That is something to be thankful for.

 

[ieatallthefood]

If you are applying to AOA residencies - CALL every program, email them, have your school call them and advocate for you. It's NOT over. Even if you are an MD, it is worth a shot calling some of these programs as I did see options for MDs to send in applications.

I just got offered a TRI position and it is the biggest weight off my shoulders. Wishing the best of luck to everyone else.

 

[galgr]

so i'm an m4-when is one eligible to take the Step 3? Can one take it after graduation?

 

[Dr.Salt]

So, for the unfilled placed that are no longer listed? Does that mean they were filled? or do programs take the spots down just to not get bombarded with e-mails/calls?

How long does it typically take for programs to find suitable applicants?

I'd appreciate some insight.

 

[CaliAtenza]

May I ask you what did you do different this year to get matched. Any pointers will help

My scores are mediocre unfortunately, so I just focused on getting more experience. I'm a US-IMG who has already graduated, so I did observerships mostly. I lucked out and was offered a Sub-I at a program that I failed to match into last cycle. Consequently, I made sure to impress everyone during that time and I ended up having a very good shot of matching into that program this time. I also picked up another research project in the meantime. In retrospect, I should have taken the Step 3 as well, but given my history with the Step exams, I didn't want to also take on studying without being dedicated to it, so I put that aside. What helped for me is doing the observerships at programs that I wanted to go to or at least get an IV from.

 

[Nonotmeplz]

IS there any prog director who can tell if its worth applying next year?
I am Canadian IMG step1 229/step2 222/CS pass; all 1st attempt with good LOR, for what I heard. No other red flags, all LOR from IM. Applied to IM/FM but didn't match, assuming because of step 2.
Does it worth applying to IM again or possibly path?

 

[fthishsit]

IS there any prog director who can tell if its worth applying next year?
I am Canadian IMG step1 229/step2 222/CS pass; all 1st attempt with good LOR, for what I heard. No other red flags, all LOR from IM. Applied to IM/FM but didn't match, assuming because of step 2.
Does it worth applying to IM again or possibly path?

I am an US-IMG and have very similar stat as you have. Also applied o IM and FM. I did not match this year nor was able to find a spot through SOAP. I met with my advisor today and he said there are a lot more students who have lower stat than I do, who matched to IM this year from my class. He thought that maybe my interviews did not go well, because otherwise I do not have a redflag. Maybe you were similar to my case? Because unless you applied to mostly university programs, community programs should have no problems matching either you or me with such stat. What do you think?

 

[SOAPyikes]

My scores are mediocre unfortunately, so I just focused on getting more experience. I'm a US-IMG who has already graduated, so I did observerships mostly. I lucked out and was offered a Sub-I at a program that I failed to match into last cycle. Consequently, I made sure to impress everyone during that time and I ended up having a very good shot of matching into that program this time. I also picked up another research project in the meantime. In retrospect, I should have taken the Step 3 as well, but given my history with the Step exams, I didn't want to also take on studying without being dedicated to it, so I put that aside. What helped for me is doing the observerships at programs that I wanted to go to or at least get an IV from.

Where did you do your observership?

 

[rokshana]

This entire process has been a complete waste of time and energy. They need a better system set in place. I'm taking myself to breakfast arghh 😡😡

for those that remember the Scramble...this IS the better system.

 

[rokshana]

So working as a physician assistant will help increase chances of matching next year?

no.

 

[sazerac]

So working as a physician assistant will help increase chances of matching next year?

Since you haven't passed the PANCE board exam, nor are you qualified to sit for it, working as an physician assistant will land you in jail under the state's Criminal Impersonation laws. A conviction would prevent you from ever getting a medical license.

 

[IH8ColdWeath3r]

Fortunate and secured a TRI spot at a place with an EM residency. Will bust my ass and have spot there in the following year. This process has been extremely stressful and sobering at the same time. I went through school, did everything that I was told, took the step exams in addition to COMLEX and because of some misfortune, failed the PE. I retook it and passed. I Things happen and sometimes they are beyond our control. But I will always remember this week for the rest of my life.

It has given me even more purpose to work extremely hard and prove to the program that gave me an offer that I am a viable candidate. To those who were not as fortunate, do not hang your head. You will get through this and you will become great doctors. If anything, this experience by itself will make you that much more of a better doctor just by the adversity that you will one day, overcome. This thread has been stressful but yet therapeutic and I want to wish everyone the best of luck moving forward.

 

[triplej2]

Fortunate and secured a TRI spot at a place with an EM residency. Will hopefully bust my A** and have spot there in the following year. This process has been extremely stressful and sobering at the same time. I went through school, did everything that I was told, took the step exams in addition to COMLEX and because of some misfortune, failed the PE. Things happen and sometimes they are beyond our control. But I will always remember this week for the rest of my life.

It has given me even more purpose to work extremely hard and prove to the program that gave me an offer that I am a viable candidate. To those who were not as fortunate, do not hang your head. You will get through this and you will become great doctors. If anything, this experience by itself will make you that much more of a better doctor just by the adversity that you will one day, overcome. This thread has been stressful but yet therapeutic and I want to wish everyone the best of luck moving forward.

Congrats cold weather. I am genuinely happy that you found a spot. I had originally seen you after I too found out I failed my PE. Your advice and updates helped me realize other people were in the same spot as I was.

 

[Shorin-Ryu]

WOW! I knew I was lucky to attend my school, but didn't realize how much. At my school, we were pushed to have an advisor go over the app, cv, personal statement, etc preferably before 4th year or at the beginning. My advisor was my school's PD. He was helpful in crafting my personal statement, choosing places to apply, etc. He told me my weaknesses. We were emailed constantly... "by this point you should have at least 7 IV, if you don't, come talk to us, apply to more places, AND email PDs about your intetest." I was fortunate to match, but the people who didn't had to come in at 11:30 On Monday to talk to an advisor and make a plan. I think this might be why our match rate last year was 97%. I can't imagine how difficult it is to have to do this on your own.

It sounds like my medical school (MD AMG). Our faculty and administrators offered lots of help to all of us during the interview season as well as to a couple of students who did not match in the Main Match but matched later through the SOAP, which gave our class a 100% match.

Silly me! I thought that all medical schools were like mine. After all, it's in medical schools' best interests to match all their graduates. Love my school! 🙂

Best of luck to all looking for a spot.

 

[67552931811]

Fortunate and secured a TRI spot at a place with an EM residency. Will hopefully bust my A** and have spot there in the following year. This process has been extremely stressful and sobering at the same time. I went through school, did everything that I was told, took the step exams in addition to COMLEX and because of some misfortune, failed the PE. Things happen and sometimes they are beyond our control. But I will always remember this week for the rest of my life.

It has given me even more purpose to work extremely hard and prove to the program that gave me an offer that I am a viable candidate. To those who were not as fortunate, do not hang your head. You will get through this and you will become great doctors. If anything, this experience by itself will make you that much more of a better doctor just by the adversity that you will one day, overcome. This thread has been stressful but yet therapeutic and I want to wish everyone the best of luck moving forward.

Hey man. Beyond stoked for you. I've seen you around the DO parts for awhile and though you do not know me I felt genuine angst for you and your situation. I'll know you'll be a fantastic doc in whatever field you end up, but hopefully em 😉.

Work hard next year brother. Until then try to relax for a minute and pop a cold one. Good luck man 🙂.

 

[Rrraadd]

Gone

 

[Shorin-Ryu]

Fortunate and secured a TRI spot at a place with an EM residency. Will hopefully bust my A** and have spot there in the following year. This process has been extremely stressful and sobering at the same time. I went through school, did everything that I was told, took the step exams in addition to COMLEX and because of some misfortune, failed the PE. Things happen and sometimes they are beyond our control. But I will always remember this week for the rest of my life.

It has given me even more purpose to work extremely hard and prove to the program that gave me an offer that I am a viable candidate. To those who were not as fortunate, do not hang your head. You will get through this and you will become great doctors. If anything, this experience by itself will make you that much more of a better doctor just by the adversity that you will one day, overcome. This thread has been stressful but yet therapeutic and I want to wish everyone the best of luck moving forward.

Congratulations, @IH8ColdWeath3r!!! So happy for you!!! 🙂

 

[starwarsfan123]

Hi everyone - congrats to those who now have a program. I haven't found anyone thus far with a story like mine but putting it out there because I'm not sure what my next steps should be/what I do with ERAS now, if I cold email programs that based on Hx may have open spots, if I get in touch with some PDs from interviews I got to know well and who would remember me to keep my options open...
so applied to Diagnostic Rads. US allopathic Ivy League med school, higher caliber undergrad. Did a Masters in Neuro during my MD yrs, first author Science paper and lots of pubs, LORs from a very prominent research advisor with whom I have a great relationship, chair of my med schools rads program, with comments in all my interview about my CV being one of the most impressive they've seen (im also a non traditional applicatant so time = more things), a lot cited my LORs as strong, and many interviews focused on my PS bc It was shocking well written for Rads (im a good writer). Got 25 rads interviews including a few IR in there, turned a few down, mostly invites from top tier to top 25 programs with of course some lower ranked but still academic programs that I actually really liked. Stats: 230s (7 yrs ago so they say add 10 pts), CK 270s. Lots of awards / honors, academic and non. I interview super well. Statistically it is a nearly impossibility that I did not match into a Rads program. Asymptomtically more programs wouldn't have helped. Matched into one of the most competitive prelims.
I've been at this for 10 yrs - started med school, got 2 external fellowships, ended up deciding to formally do a grad program bc I wanted the formal education, nothing red flaggy that anyone could identify. Last year there were over 30 unfilled RAds programs at this time. Now 0 I'm eligible for as they're military or IMG only tracks. Attempted SOAP for all DR and IR/DR program yielding zero responses (for the better maybe bc none of those places I would have been happy at or aligned with what was in my app that I can't change).

In prior yrs there have been upwards of 80 unfilled Rads spots. No one can explain this except I do have a running Hx of insane things like this happening to me.

I'm totally spent. My school has an amazing track record of getting everyone into programs - something like the top 90% get into the top 10% of programs. So, yeah. I have to wait for a spot to open up during my pgy1 year but also do this crap again. Am I right that there isn't anything to do now with.ERAS? Should I email some programs?? My school keeps saying they'll do everything to help me/they've seen me struggle through a lot (I'm successful on paper, by now and early on was clear I'm a different kind of smart/maybe not the best kind of med school but I've persisted), but no one really has had a concrete answer for me as to what to do now. I don't think they've dealt with someone not matching into rads in at least 10 yrs and there's nothing I can improve on my application except to move forward with my prelim, be an MD and that helps too....

Sorry yeah this is a decade of sacrifice, hard work, the pain of coming back into clinical yrs after 6 yrs away on research, a lot of people not understanding why I want to pursue clinical medicine (except for those on the interview trail who are 15 yrs ahead in rads which is where my skills/thoughts take me as well). It's been thankless and listening to classmates talk about getting through 4 hard yrs of Med school for it all to be worth it makes me die inside, a lot. So there's a story. There's more obstacle that I won't disclose here but know I'm not some spoiled gifted brat either. Mostly if you have concrete advice for me, that's awesome. If not, thanks for letting me get this out somewhere. It really effing hurts.

Sorry to hear your story man. So if im not mistaken, what you are saying is that now you've matched into a preliminary medicine year but not radiology despite having 25+ interview? Have you thought of calling the programs you interviewed to see why you did not match? Also, dont forget seems like you interviewed at very competitive programs so thats going to be tough. Why don't you just aim to do radiology anywhere, get your board, and then when it comes time to fellowship with your CV, you'll get anywhere you want. Eventually, you can always work your way to the top. I know IMGS who finished rads residency outside USA, then came here and did fellowships worked their way into a job and became very successful at large academic institutions. At least, you've started your first step with a prelim. Advanced rad Programs will be more inclined to take you next year since they have a piece of mind you've already secured a prelim spot. Also, if you want I could send out your C.V. to some personal friends of mine who are in Rads. Some are influential and you never know what can happen. I really dont know what else to say, but I feel for you bud. I hope that you will achieve all your goals and dreams.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Hi everyone - congrats to those who now have a program. I haven't found anyone thus far with a story like mine but putting it out there because I'm not sure what my next steps should be/what I do with ERAS now, if I cold email programs that based on Hx may have open spots, if I get in touch with some PDs from interviews I got to know well and who would remember me to keep my options open...
so applied to Diagnostic Rads. US allopathic Ivy League med school, higher caliber undergrad. Did a Masters in Neuro during my MD yrs, first author Science paper and lots of pubs, LORs from a very prominent research advisor with whom I have a great relationship, chair of my med schools rads program, with comments in all my interview about my CV being one of the most impressive they've seen (im also a non traditional applicatant so time = more things), a lot cited my LORs as strong, and many interviews focused on my PS bc It was shocking well written for Rads (im a good writer). Got 25 rads interviews including a few IR in there, turned a few down, mostly invites from top tier to top 25 programs with of course some lower ranked but still academic programs that I actually really liked. Stats: 230s (7 yrs ago so they say add 10 pts), CK 270s. Lots of awards / honors, academic and non. I interview super well. Statistically it is a nearly impossibility that I did not match into a Rads program. Asymptomtically more programs wouldn't have helped. Matched into one of the most competitive prelims.
I've been at this for 10 yrs - started med school, got 2 external fellowships, ended up deciding to formally do a grad program bc I wanted the formal education, nothing red flaggy that anyone could identify. Last year there were over 30 unfilled RAds programs at this time. Now 0 I'm eligible for as they're military or IMG only tracks. Attempted SOAP for all DR and IR/DR program yielding zero responses (for the better maybe bc none of those places I would have been happy at or aligned with what was in my app that I can't change).

In prior yrs there have been upwards of 80 unfilled Rads spots. No one can explain this except I do have a running Hx of insane things like this happening to me.

I'm totally spent. My school has an amazing track record of getting everyone into programs - something like the top 90% get into the top 10% of programs. So, yeah. I have to wait for a spot to open up during my pgy1 year but also do this crap again. Am I right that there isn't anything to do now with.ERAS? Should I email some programs?? My school keeps saying they'll do everything to help me/they've seen me struggle through a lot (I'm successful on paper, by now and early on was clear I'm a different kind of smart/maybe not the best kind of med school but I've persisted), but no one really has had a concrete answer for me as to what to do now. I don't think they've dealt with someone not matching into rads in at least 10 yrs and there's nothing I can improve on my application except to move forward with my prelim, be an MD and that helps too....

Sorry yeah this is a decade of sacrifice, hard work, the pain of coming back into clinical yrs after 6 yrs away on research, a lot of people not understanding why I want to pursue clinical medicine (except for those on the interview trail who are 15 yrs ahead in rads which is where my skills/thoughts take me as well). It's been thankless and listening to classmates talk about getting through 4 hard yrs of Med school for it all to be worth it makes me die inside, a lot. So there's a story. There's more obstacle that I won't disclose here but know I'm not some spoiled gifted brat either. Mostly if you have concrete advice for me, that's awesome. If not, thanks for letting me get this out somewhere. It really effing hurts.

My condolences to you.

There is something very odd about the whole situation. Are your list ENTIRELY filled with top 25 programs? Perhaps you were just a spot or two from matching at every program if the programs you've applied to are homogenous.

Radiology is more competitive than 2012-2013 this year just by the numbers. The cycle is back the other way. Not to mention rads have always been competitive at the top.

But still, there is something buried in your application and you need to figure it out. It could be key words like "so and so very suited for research" without the counterbalance of talking up your clinical ability. If you are close with your letter writers you definitely want to work to be more well rounded.

And lastly this is a warning to all medical students. Only choose to not interview at a location if you physically can't. Only choose to not rank a location if you RATHER be unmatched than to go there.

 

[Aqua_Vitae]

Hi everyone - congrats to those who now have a program. I haven't found anyone thus far with a story like mine but putting it out there because I'm not sure what my next steps should be/what I do with ERAS now, if I cold email programs that based on Hx may have open spots, if I get in touch with some PDs from interviews I got to know well and who would remember me to keep my options open...
so applied to Diagnostic Rads. US allopathic Ivy League med school, higher caliber undergrad. Did a Masters in Neuro during my MD yrs, first author Science paper and lots of pubs, LORs from a very prominent research advisor with whom I have a great relationship, chair of my med schools rads program, with comments in all my interview about my CV being one of the most impressive they've seen (im also a non traditional applicatant so time = more things), a lot cited my LORs as strong, and many interviews focused on my PS bc It was shocking well written for Rads (im a good writer). Got 25 rads interviews including a few IR in there, turned a few down, mostly invites from top tier to top 25 programs with of course some lower ranked but still academic programs that I actually really liked. Stats: 230s (7 yrs ago so they say add 10 pts), CK 270s. Lots of awards / honors, academic and non. I interview super well. Statistically it is a nearly impossibility that I did not match into a Rads program. Asymptomtically more programs wouldn't have helped. Matched into one of the most competitive prelims.
I've been at this for 10 yrs - started med school, got 2 external fellowships, ended up deciding to formally do a grad program bc I wanted the formal education, nothing red flaggy that anyone could identify. Last year there were over 30 unfilled RAds programs at this time. Now 0 I'm eligible for as they're military or IMG only tracks. Attempted SOAP for all DR and IR/DR program yielding zero responses (for the better maybe bc none of those places I would have been happy at or aligned with what was in my app that I can't change).

In prior yrs there have been upwards of 80 unfilled Rads spots. No one can explain this except I do have a running Hx of insane things like this happening to me.

I'm totally spent. My school has an amazing track record of getting everyone into programs - something like the top 90% get into the top 10% of programs. So, yeah. I have to wait for a spot to open up during my pgy1 year but also do this crap again. Am I right that there isn't anything to do now with.ERAS? Should I email some programs?? My school keeps saying they'll do everything to help me/they've seen me struggle through a lot (I'm successful on paper, by now and early on was clear I'm a different kind of smart/maybe not the best kind of med school but I've persisted), but no one really has had a concrete answer for me as to what to do now. I don't think they've dealt with someone not matching into rads in at least 10 yrs and there's nothing I can improve on my application except to move forward with my prelim, be an MD and that helps too....

Sorry yeah this is a decade of sacrifice, hard work, the pain of coming back into clinical yrs after 6 yrs away on research, a lot of people not understanding why I want to pursue clinical medicine (except for those on the interview trail who are 15 yrs ahead in rads which is where my skills/thoughts take me as well). It's been thankless and listening to classmates talk about getting through 4 hard yrs of Med school for it all to be worth it makes me die inside, a lot. So there's a story. There's more obstacle that I won't disclose here but know I'm not some spoiled gifted brat either. Mostly if you have concrete advice for me, that's awesome. If not, thanks for letting me get this out somewhere. It really effing hurts.

It is maybe statistically impossible (>3SD) if you interview awesome. Sometimes I want to go back in time and smack arrogant "me" in the face. One of my weaknesses and strengths is overconfidence.

Here is concrete advice:

When you interview just put everyone you IV with above you and you'll be fine. People are likely intimidated by you. Fix that. Understand that PGY-1 is the lowest on the totem pole even with your stats.

 

[abcdior]

my PS bc It was shocking well written for Rads (im a good writer)



I actually really liked.

Statistically it is a nearly impossibility that I did not match into a Rads program.

be an MD and that helps too....

so from that post alone it seems there's AT LEAST one thing that you may have misjudged

 

[medbear1200]

hey so what should we do now [for people who did not match]...is research a better option? or do observerships look more valuable?

does it make sense to pursue an MPH? & congrats to all those who secured a position! also if I have already graduated and completed my rotations [US IMG grad], and if i may want to change the specialty i want to apply to, will this work? or would i need designated LOR's and specialty specific rotations?

 

[Aqua_Vitae]

This thread is dead!!!!!!

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

reasearch and observerships are garbage!

LAST!!!!!

 

[medbear1200]

This thread is dead!!!!!!

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/NRMP-2016-Program-Director-Survey.pdf

reasearch and observerships are garbage!

LAST!!!!!

really, so what should unmatched people pursue?? pls help me out.

 

[Rrraadd]

.

 

[Aqua_Vitae]

Read the report of what determines PD's to interview and rank in your specialty. Don't do research or observerships because look at the data don't you see?

This thread is dead!!!!

LAST!

 

[downtrodden]

Ok, that's actually just mean. This is a post on a website. Not going for grammatical perfection, written somewhat in haste on a smart phone.
Being a good writer has nothing to do w/ what one writes here. Wow, I can't believe I just had to respond to that. Why be hurtful, and why the likes?

My situation is similar: top ranked med school, well above average numbers for my specialty, went unmatched, got 0 SOAP offers, but got a post-SOAP offer. All the while, I felt like my school was unsure/lost about what to do with me after I got that dreaded email. The school didn't expect this to happen and was probably unprepared to help me.

It was highly improbable for us to not match, but the chance was there and we were THAT unlucky. I feel for you and you're not alone. I hope things work out for you.

 

[Rrraadd]

.

 

[Rrraadd]

-

 

[Naijaba]

Hi everyone - congrats to those who now have a program. I haven't found anyone thus far with a story like mine but putting it out there because I'm not sure what my next steps should be/what I do with ERAS now, if I cold email programs that based on Hx may have open spots, if I get in touch with some PDs from interviews I got to know well and who would remember me to keep my options open...
so applied to Diagnostic Rads. US allopathic Ivy League med school, higher caliber undergrad. Did a Masters in Neuro during my MD yrs, first author Science paper and lots of pubs, LORs from a very prominent research advisor with whom I have a great relationship, chair of my med schools rads program, with comments in all my interview about my CV being one of the most impressive they've seen (im also a non traditional applicatant so time = more things), a lot cited my LORs as strong, and many interviews focused on my PS bc It was shocking well written for Rads (im a good writer). Got 25 rads interviews including a few IR in there, turned a few down, mostly invites from top tier to top 25 programs with of course some lower ranked but still academic programs that I actually really liked. Stats: 230s (7 yrs ago so they say add 10 pts), CK 270s. Lots of awards / honors, academic and non. I interview super well. Statistically it is a nearly impossibility that I did not match into a Rads program. Asymptomtically more programs wouldn't have helped. Matched into one of the most competitive prelims.
I've been at this for 10 yrs - started med school, got 2 external fellowships, ended up deciding to formally do a grad program bc I wanted the formal education, nothing red flaggy that anyone could identify. Last year there were over 30 unfilled RAds programs at this time. Now 0 I'm eligible for as they're military or IMG only tracks. Attempted SOAP for all DR and IR/DR program yielding zero responses (for the better maybe bc none of those places I would have been happy at or aligned with what was in my app that I can't change).

In prior yrs there have been upwards of 80 unfilled Rads spots. No one can explain this except I do have a running Hx of insane things like this happening to me.

I'm totally spent. My school has an amazing track record of getting everyone into programs - something like the top 90% get into the top 10% of programs. So, yeah. I have to wait for a spot to open up during my pgy1 year but also do this crap again. Am I right that there isn't anything to do now with.ERAS? Should I email some programs?? My school keeps saying they'll do everything to help me/they've seen me struggle through a lot (I'm successful on paper, by now and early on was clear I'm a different kind of smart/maybe not the best kind of med school but I've persisted), but no one really has had a concrete answer for me as to what to do now. I don't think they've dealt with someone not matching into rads in at least 10 yrs and there's nothing I can improve on my application except to move forward with my prelim, be an MD and that helps too....

Sorry yeah this is a decade of sacrifice, hard work, the pain of coming back into clinical yrs after 6 yrs away on research, a lot of people not understanding why I want to pursue clinical medicine (except for those on the interview trail who are 15 yrs ahead in rads which is where my skills/thoughts take me as well). It's been thankless and listening to classmates talk about getting through 4 hard yrs of Med school for it all to be worth it makes me die inside, a lot. So there's a story. There's more obstacle that I won't disclose here but know I'm not some spoiled gifted brat either. Mostly if you have concrete advice for me, that's awesome. If not, thanks for letting me get this out somewhere. It really effing hurts.

Hi Rrradd, sorry to hear you're in a tough spot. Our applications are surprisingly similar (Ivy med school, master's during MD years, 4 publications, 230s Step 1, 20+ interviews, applied IR/DR). I'm not the best writer, but I interview well. I was fortunate to match on Monday. I have a few questions for you along with my hypothesis as to what went wrong.

a. You interviewed at ~12 programs? Did you put them all on your rank list? Did you rank IR/DR and DR separately?
b. Did you interview at your home program? Did you rank them? I would tactfully ask them where they ranked you, and why.
c. Another poster mentioned the intimidation factor. This is a possibility, although less likely at top programs where everyone seems like a Rhodes scholar.

You're right that it's a statistical anomaly. Gauging by last year's match data you should've had a >95% chance of matching DR. There is one difference that I would postulate: IR. How is it that you received IR interviews? Did you apply IR? Was your application focused on IR? Were your letters from IRs? My experience on the interview trail was that IR-applicants really love IR. This comes across during your interview. Were you dedicated to IR during your interviews? My hypothesis is that DR programs ranked you low because they thought you wanted IR, while IR programs ranked you low because you weren't all-in. I'd offer to look at your application. Feel free to PM me as much as you like. You don't know the content of your LORs, but having someone else look at your app could be beneficial in terms of identifying red flags.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

Thanks -- I didn't interview at 25+ Rads; sorry, that wasn't clear. I got that many interviews, ended up with 12ish programs (some had more than 1 track). It was enough of range though I do regret a few I had to turn down. Yes, I matched into a prelim 1st time around. Have talked to 2 PDs I feel knew me well, and nothing - they were both surprised, nothing specific they could point to. will continue to dig there and adjust as needed. Finally I may take you up on the CV offer. That would be incredible and anything can only help at this point. Thx so much!

Be careful about some community programs. I read your previous posts including part of your rank list.

When I was applying, I had interviews with Columbia but NOT Santa Clara Valley Medical Center. Some community Cali programs are more competitive than academic programs elsewhere. If you only ranked cali community program I can see why this situation happened.

Did you try for the IR spot or radiology spot in the SOAP? I have a hard time believing they wouldn't at least call you.

 

[Nonotmeplz]

I am an US-IMG and have very similar stat as you have. Also applied o IM and FM. I did not match this year nor was able to find a spot through SOAP. I met with my advisor today and he said there are a lot more students who have lower stat than I do, who matched to IM this year from my class. He thought that maybe my interviews did not go well, because otherwise I do not have a redflag. Maybe you were similar to my case? Because unless you applied to mostly university programs, community programs should have no problems matching either you or me with such stat. What do you think?

I applied broadly from university programs to community programs. I just don't know what went wrong. I realistically put a community program, where I interviewed and thought I had a good shot of getting in, as my top choice.

 

[Shorin-Ryu]

Got offer and accepted.. Had 6 total interviews with mostly IM and a few family medicine. Got the one I wanted most so I am pretty excited. Its better than had I ranked a program that Interviewed at originally so I did luck up and do better in soap than I would have in regular match cycle.

Beautiful, @MrSunny1!!! Congratulations!!! 🙂

 

[DrfluffyMD]

so from that post alone it seems there's AT LEAST one thing that you may have misjudged

Completely uncalled for. You could be in his shoes...

 

[Shorin-Ryu]

Totally serious question: How would you change the system to make it better? Remember that there are more applicants than spots, so therefore some/many applicants are not getting a spot no matter what system is used.

It's hard to say whether it favors applicants or programs. Obviously the programs are in a better position because there are multiple applicants for each spot - that's just the way it is. But the system otherwise seems to balance the two (at least to me).

Why not have offers go down the list? Because that won't really work. Let's say you get an offer from a program in IM. But you really wanted a spot in GS. So you might hope that someone else will turn down an offer and then a new offer will appear, so you sit on your IM offer waiting. That ties up that offer, that perhaps someone else might want, etc. The multiple round system yields the same result in the end, with less uncertainty/craziness -- if someone turning down an offer in your system would result in you getting that offer, that will just happen in the next round rather than immediately.

Forcing programs to fill spots isn't fair to programs. Sometimes the right answer is not to fill the spot. For example, let's say I had an intern this year who took an LOA for 6 months, so now they will be an intern next year for 6 months. I might petition my GME office to still fill my full complement and be 1/2 of an intern "over". But if I ended up with an unfilled spot at the end of the match, I might decide to leave the spot empty and be 1/2 of an intern under instead. That's my call, I shouldn't be forced to fill a position if I don't want to.

Looking for any/all ideas for improvement. If anyone disagrees with me on the above points, happy to discuss that too.

Thank you, @aProgDirector, for great posts! 🙂

 

[SomeHope87]

Here is some hope. I was in this position the last two years. It's horrible plain and simple, my heart goes out to all of you. I matched this year. My stats: FMG 215, 230 (1), CS Pass, 4 USCE LOR from top five places ranked by US news world report, 3 pubs, 2 major specialty awards + stipend. also low tier carib school

After my first attempt at match two years back I had nothing outside of my USMLE scores and LORs, none of the pubs or awards. So the question is how did I match with such mediocre stats and a red flag (the CK attempt)?

1. RESEARCH!!!!!! I can't understate this enough and I'll explain why. Day after I didn't match, i emailed every interesting Physician/scientist on the top 5 us news world report. All I asked for is a shot at some research, data crunching, lab maintenance, wtvr. I had no post grad degree no research experience. Bam, got a shot at the best one. The actual papers isn't as important as how you "grow" the research. I submitted abstracts for every relevant conference in my field. I signed up to do talks anywhere and everywhere. I applied to every relevant awards in my field. Paid off. Attended all the rounds at that institution, set up a meeting to intro myself to any attending/scientist, that'll grant me one.

2. Submitted my ERAS that following sept. Oct 1st, got on the phone called every single damn program and marketed myself. Told the Program coordinator about my shortcomings but how I've improved. Got 2 interviews, didn't match.

3. Kept doing research, padding cv, doing talks, winning awards. Once again submit ERAS following sept. Got on the phones again in OCT. Some coordinators even remembered me and were kind enough to revisit me as I explained to them how I improved once again. 3 interviews. Got my attendings from these institutions to contact the PDs after each interview. Matched!

Looking at many of the stats of some of you guys and I'm dumbfounded how it didn't work out. It truly is luck. However, I'm also a firm believer in being able to influence your luck by marketing yourself and going out there and trying to get it yourself. Yea we can always talk to our med school and get their opinions and ho-hum about our CVs and personal statement. Fact is, we have to just go out there and do it, especially being an FMG. I hope this helps as this site has given me a lot of guidance and I wanted to give back.

also I'm a really good interviewer I've been told. I try to have a central theme for each interview. My theme generally was, I'm battle tested had ups and downs. I've tasted failure and it has motivated to go above and beyond.

Cheers Guys

 

[Shorin-Ryu]

Here is some hope. I was in this position the last two years. It's horrible plain and simple, my heart goes out to all of you. I matched this year. My stats: FMG 215, 230 (1), CS Pass, 4 USCE LOR from top five places ranked by US news world report, 3 pubs, 2 major specialty awards + stipend. also low tier carib school

After my first attempt at match two years back I had nothing outside of my USMLE scores and LORs, none of the pubs or awards. So the question is how did I match with such mediocre stats and a red flag (the CK attempt)?

1. RESEARCH!!!!!! I can't understate this enough and I'll explain why. Day after I didn't match, i emailed every interesting Physician/scientist on the top 5 us news world report. All I asked for is a shot at some research, data crunching, lab maintenance, wtvr. I had no post grad degree no research experience. Bam, got a shot at the best one. The actual papers isn't as important as how you "grow" the research. I submitted abstracts for every relevant conference in my field. I signed up to do talks anywhere and everywhere. I applied to every relevant awards in my field. Paid off. Attended all the rounds at that institution, set up a meeting to intro myself to any attending/scientist, that'll grant me one.

2. Submitted my ERAS that following sept. Oct 1st, got on the phone called every single damn program and marketed myself. Told the Program coordinator about my shortcomings but how I've improved. Got 2 interviews, didn't match.

3. Kept doing research, padding cv, doing talks, winning awards. Once again submit ERAS following sept. Got on the phones again in OCT. Some coordinators even remembered me and were kind enough to revisit me as I explained to them how I improved once again. 3 interviews. Got my attendings from these institutions to contact the PDs after each interview. Matched!

Looking at many of the stats of some of you guys and I'm dumbfounded how it didn't work out. It truly is luck. However, I'm also a firm believer in being able to influence your luck by marketing yourself and going out there and trying to get it yourself. Yea we can always talk to our med school and get their opinions and ho-hum about our CVs and personal statement. Fact is, we have to just go out there and do it, especially being an FMG. I hope this helps as this site has given me a lot of guidance and I wanted to give back.

also I'm a really good interviewer I've been told. I try to have a central theme for each interview. My theme generally was, I'm battle tested had ups and downs. I've tasted failure and it has motivated to go above and beyond.

Cheers Guys

Congratulations, @SomeHope87! Great story of perseverance and determination! 🙂

 

[Erinma2017]

Fortunate and secured a TRI spot at a place with an EM residency. Will hopefully bust my A** and have spot there in the following year. This process has been extremely stressful and sobering at the same time. I went through school, did everything that I was told, took the step exams in addition to COMLEX and because of some misfortune, failed the PE. Things happen and sometimes they are beyond our control. But I will always remember this week for the rest of my life.

It has given me even more purpose to work extremely hard and prove to the program that gave me an offer that I am a viable candidate. To those who were not as fortunate, do not hang your head. You will get through this and you will become great doctors. If anything, this experience by itself will make you that much more of a better doctor just by the adversity that you will one day, overcome. This thread has been stressful but yet therapeutic and I want to wish everyone the best of luck moving forward.

Congrats ! I'm still working on getting one... hope something finally works out for me.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Hi everyone - congrats to those who now have a program. I haven't found anyone thus far with a story like mine but putting it out there because I'm not sure what my next steps should be/what I do with ERAS now, if I cold email programs that based on Hx may have open spots, if I get in touch with some PDs from interviews I got to know well and who would remember me to keep my options open...
so applied to Diagnostic Rads. US allopathic Ivy League med school, higher caliber undergrad. Did a Masters in Neuro during my MD yrs, first author Science paper and lots of pubs, LORs from a very prominent research advisor with whom I have a great relationship, chair of my med schools rads program, with comments in all my interview about my CV being one of the most impressive they've seen (im also a non traditional applicatant so time = more things), a lot cited my LORs as strong, and many interviews focused on my PS bc It was shocking well written for Rads (im a good writer). Got 25 rads interviews including a few IR in there, turned a few down, mostly invites from top tier to top 25 programs with of course some lower ranked but still academic programs that I actually really liked. Stats: 230s (7 yrs ago so they say add 10 pts), CK 270s. Lots of awards / honors, academic and non. I interview super well. Statistically it is a nearly impossibility that I did not match into a Rads program. Asymptomtically more programs wouldn't have helped. Matched into one of the most competitive prelims.
I've been at this for 10 yrs - started med school, got 2 external fellowships, ended up deciding to formally do a grad program bc I wanted the formal education, nothing red flaggy that anyone could identify. Last year there were over 30 unfilled RAds programs at this time. Now 0 I'm eligible for as they're military or IMG only tracks. Attempted SOAP for all DR and IR/DR program yielding zero responses (for the better maybe bc none of those places I would have been happy at or aligned with what was in my app that I can't change).

In prior yrs there have been upwards of 80 unfilled Rads spots. No one can explain this except I do have a running Hx of insane things like this happening to me.

I'm totally spent. My school has an amazing track record of getting everyone into programs - something like the top 90% get into the top 10% of programs. So, yeah. I have to wait for a spot to open up during my pgy1 year but also do this crap again. Am I right that there isn't anything to do now with.ERAS? Should I email some programs?? My school keeps saying they'll do everything to help me/they've seen me struggle through a lot (I'm successful on paper, by now and early on was clear I'm a different kind of smart/maybe not the best kind of med school but I've persisted), but no one really has had a concrete answer for me as to what to do now. I don't think they've dealt with someone not matching into rads in at least 10 yrs and there's nothing I can improve on my application except to move forward with my prelim, be an MD and that helps too....

Sorry yeah this is a decade of sacrifice, hard work, the pain of coming back into clinical yrs after 6 yrs away on research, a lot of people not understanding why I want to pursue clinical medicine (except for those on the interview trail who are 15 yrs ahead in rads which is where my skills/thoughts take me as well). It's been thankless and listening to classmates talk about getting through 4 hard yrs of Med school for it all to be worth it makes me die inside, a lot. So there's a story. There's more obstacle that I won't disclose here but know I'm not some spoiled gifted brat either. Mostly if you have concrete advice for me, that's awesome. If not, thanks for letting me get this out somewhere. It really effing hurts.

What I would do is talk to your home Rads PD, and ask if they would contact other PD's to see what happened. It's possible that they may be more honest/forthright with another PD, rather than with you. I can't quite sort out your timeline from your post, looks like lots of research time, perhaps after your 3rd year? If so, programs might be worried that your clinical skills have atrophied -- although I'd expect that to affect your prelim match more than rads. It's possible that programs would be concerned about the long lag between Step 1 and Step 3. In any case, the only way to know is to try to get feedback from PD's.

 

[Winged Scapula]

No no, didn't go on 25 interviews. Way too many. I had to turn a bunch done due to physical constraints/conflicts, late notification, etc. I interviewed at a range and actually found it hard to get lower tier academic programs from my home state. Community programs I had to email for invites as well. I applied to research tracks where they existed, so talked a lot about research there. With more clinically oriented programs, I was sure to talk about wanting to be a clinical radiology/tone down the research. I ranked 13 in the end (some were 1-2 person tracks, so that doesn't help but ranked the DR full program also), not 25. Adding on another 2 top programs wouldn't have helped. There were a few I regret not going on, the rest definitely not for me. There really isn't any we can find. I was worried because these things just tend to happen to me -- the nontraditional student bias does exist a bit, I'd say more in ranking than in selection for interview (my own thought + the DR/IR PD at my home program). I treated all programs the same, regardless of 'prestige' and in fact found a program that was definitely the least 'prestigious' one of my favorite ones. I've spoken to a few PDs thus far - one of whom knows me well, and he had nothing to point to out. Another was surprised to find I didn't match.

I think the reduction in DR spots played a role perhaps and that the most likely explanation, because it's so universal, is that I was just in middle of lists/just missed at those few places that land anyone a spot. I know this is all hard for you to believe, that I'm some super arrogant person. My life also isn't just research..... I had an start-up out of college, got this thing off the ground and had it acquired by a very large, prominent tech company for a few years. Career 1. It goes on...

Also well-rounded = probably the word used most. I've pretty much gone through my letters with everyone also. But now they have to change anyway. again ++ feedback about my letters. tho. Clinical ability was definitely not my forte though that couldnt have been enough to knock me totally know everywhere with the interviews I was getting. So that's where I may be better off with some prelim under my belt to offset 3rd year stuff. Coming back after 6 years is hard no doubt.

I appreciate your feedback - yeah, it just got super competitive, is also an aberrant year. had I gone on the 25 interviews, I probably would have matched though the stats don't predict that really.

There's an AMA by a Radiology PD in the Rads forum; have you asked for some input there?

If you do, I'd recommend editing your story for length because it tends to put full time practicing physicians off in terms of having the time to read and respond.

 

[MissNomer]

@aProgDirector, thank you for all the words of wisdom and timely advice.

Do I need to reapply for the programs which I applied during SOAP?

If not, will the PDs be able to look at my application if they want to or do I need to send a paper/emailed/faxed application to be considered?

Thanks.

 

[MissNomer]

@aProgDirector, thank you for all the words of wisdom and timely advice.

Do I need to reapply for the programs which I applied during SOAP?

If not, will the PDs be able to look at my application if they want to or do need to send a paper/emailed/faxed application to be considered?

Thanks.

Anyone please?

 

[wysdoc]

Anyone please?

Find the list of unfilled spots that was posted after the end of SOAP yesterday. Then begin calling all you feel fit your needs. It will be tedious. You can also send emails to programs with open spots. Look for the post made by @aProgDirector a few pages back on this thread for more details

 

[Winged Scapula]

Anyone please?

please remember that SDNstaff and members are volunteers and may have full-time practices or are in training. Your first request was an hour ago so you must allow for time for others to respond.

I know you're anxious but please be patient.

 

[Smiths11]

Is it possible to get a PGY2 after TRI, or no, or depends? Thanks

 

[DrfluffyMD]

What I would do is talk to your home Rads PD, and ask if they would contact other PD's to see what happened. It's possible that they may be more honest/forthright with another PD, rather than with you. I can't quite sort out your timeline from your post, looks like lots of research time, perhaps after your 3rd year? If so, programs might be worried that your clinical skills have atrophied -- although I'd expect that to affect your prelim match more than rads. It's possible that programs would be concerned about the long lag between Step 1 and Step 3. In any case, the only way to know is to try to get feedback from PD's.

I agree, there is something very odd about his lack of match. I know programs with spots that will bend over backward to have him).

If I were him right now I would need to have a frank discussion with my PD about why the lack of match from home program and interview feedback since per him everything else are golden.