SOAP 2017 Thread

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MrSunny1

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Team work never hurts.. Tell us your SOAP strategies for this year, Why you are soaping and future plans.. Match email will be sent on march 13th so now is the time to start gearing up and preparing to SOAP if you think you may need to.
 
Who is Soaping this year speak up!
 
gutonc said:
To be fair, someone who registered w/ ERAS and NRMP for the sole purpose of SOAP-ing would know. But that should be a small population.
Click to expand...

Actually, not that small.

It takes reading between the lines, but here is a sample of what I think as "SOAP" only applicants (from NRMP)

In 2016:

7, 460 Non-US IMGs registered with NRMP.

1,869 did NOT submit a rank list. Now, some of them are folks who didn't get any interviews or didn't want to rank any of the programs they interviewed at. And, surely, some of them (most of them?) were in for SOAP only.
 
IMPD said:
Actually, not that small.

It takes reading between the lines, but here is a sample of what I think as "SOAP" only applicants (from NRMP)

In 2016:

7, 460 Non-US IMGs registered with NRMP.

1,869 did NOT submit a rank list. Now, some of them are folks who didn't get any interviews or didn't want to rank any of the programs they interviewed at. And, surely, some of them (most of them?) were in for SOAP only.
Click to expand...
Relatively small then. There were >42K applicants in NRMP last year and only 1869 without a rank list.
 
Here is a breakdown of the SOAP schedule:

17192604_10155301109082223_3931425627454771646_o.png
 
I only ranked one program so i think statistically there is only a 50% chance I will match there.. BUT I didnt feel very confident about that interview day so probably much lower chance... I wonder if SOAPING into a PRELIM from IM applicant is possible and if so should I rewrite my personal statement to reflect that I am interested in doing a 1 year prelim?
 
MrSunny1 said:
I only ranked one program so i think statistically there is only a 50% chance I will match there.. BUT I didnt feel very confident about that interview day so probably much lower chance... I wonder if SOAPING into a PRELIM from IM applicant is possible and if so should I rewrite my personal statement to reflect that I am interested in doing a 1 year prelim?
Click to expand...
Why didn't you rank the other 3 programs you interviewed at?
 
Only ranked a few programs feel like i'll probably be SOAPing. The specialty I originally applied to has a very high fill rate so i'm going to apply mainly to prelim positions. Are y'all making a completely new BS personal statement about how you dreamed of a prelim surgery position since you were 6 or just adding a BS paragraph at the end of your original statement saying that a year of prelim will help with preparing you for your specialty n whatnot?
 
MrSunny1 said:
I only ranked one program so i think statistically there is only a 50% chance I will match there.. BUT I didnt feel very confident about that interview day so probably much lower chance... I wonder if SOAPING into a PRELIM from IM applicant is possible and if so should I rewrite my personal statement to reflect that I am interested in doing a 1 year prelim?
Click to expand...
Medicine prelim positions are quite competitive. The applicants who matched advanced Derm, Anesthesia, Radiology... are all vying for those spots so they don't have to do a Surg prelim. And imagine how the Neuro folks who must have a medicine prelim are pushing for one! There were around 100 medicine prelims in the original SOAP availability list last year.

There will be plenty of Surg prelims, though.
 
Soap into surgical prelim or research year? What's the general consensus recommendation for well-qualified but unsuccessful applicants to hyper-competitive specialties such as ortho, ENT, plastics?
 
MrSunny1 said:
I only ranked one program so i think statistically there is only a 50% chance I will match there.. BUT I didnt feel very confident about that interview day so probably much lower chance... I wonder if SOAPING into a PRELIM from IM applicant is possible and if so should I rewrite my personal statement to reflect that I am interested in doing a 1 year prelim?
Click to expand...

Just curious but how did you assume that it's only a 50% chance of matching? I understand why you're saying 50% since it's either a "yes or no", but isn't this statistic lower since it's based on "contiguous ranks"?
 
If you're SOAPing into a prelim spot, PD's will want to know what your plan going forward is. Don't waste time talking about how you always wanted to do Prelim IM.

DokterMom said:
Soap into surgical prelim or research year? What's the general consensus recommendation for well-qualified but unsuccessful applicants to hyper-competitive specialties such as ortho, ENT, plastics?
Click to expand...
I think it depends upon why you didn't match. If the problem is your board scores are too low, then a research year isn't going to help much (except perhaps at that program, if they really like you). If it's concern about performance in your clinical years, then a prelim might help fix that. If it's not enough academics, then a research year -- although recognize that you'll be submitting your app in Sept, so you'll only have 2.5 months before your app is due.

sazerac said:
SOAP into Integrated CT Surgery.
Click to expand...

A real possibility, given the thread mentioning that a great program forgot to submit their ROL. There will be spots!
 
gyngyn said:
Medicine prelim positions are quite competitive. The applicants who matched advanced Derm, Anesthesia, Radiology... are all vying for those spots so they don't have to do a Surg prelim. And imagine how the Neuro folks who must have a medicine prelim are pushing for one! There were around 100 medicine prelims in the original SOAP availability list last year.

There will be plenty of Surg prelims, though.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the info. I think last year there were a similar number of categorical IM spots and IM prelim spots but the IM prelim spots could be more competitive.
 
VCorp said:
Just curious but how did you assume that it's only a 50% chance of matching? I understand why you're saying 50% since it's either a "yes or no", but isn't this statistic lower since it's based on "contiguous ranks"?
Click to expand...

Not sure I was told that applicants had a 50% chance of matching to their number one choice. No idea what the odds are but they arent great especially since I didnt feel that confident about the interview.
 
aProgDirector said:
If you're SOAPing into a prelim spot, PD's will want to know what your plan going forward is. Don't waste time talking about how you always wanted to do Prelim IM.


I think it depends upon why you didn't match. If the problem is your board scores are too low, then a research year isn't going to help much (except perhaps at that program, if they really like you). If it's concern about performance in your clinical years, then a prelim might help fix that. If it's not enough academics, then a research year -- although recognize that you'll be submitting your app in Sept, so you'll only have 2.5 months before your app is due.



A real possibility, given the thread mentioning that a great program forgot to submit their ROL. There will be spots!
Click to expand...


So if we are going to aim at some prelim programs then we need a personal statement that at least addresses this as a career choice and future path.. Makes sense but no where is this advised.
 
Hate to be a downer, but after doing interviews for med school, residency, and now fellowship, I think you can generally have a feeling if people will rank you.

I am a big believer that you can only control some aspect of the interview experience. I consider myself a good interviewer and have gotten multiple "we like you" signals from decent fellowships. Yet at one of my interview I was basically unable to make conversation with my interviewer.

At this point, I suspect that sometimes you just don't jive with certain people, which is expected. This also means the chance of matching there is quite low.

For the OP, I understand you are suicide matching by putting down #1 only. This is usually a very, very bad idea. But gleaming from your post history, I gathered that you are a US grad who have some red flags (failed rotation) and average step 1, and mostly applied to well known IM programs. You ended up with interview from number 1 and last few programs of your list.

Full disclaimer, I am not familiar with the IM soap process. But in your particular case, if you feel that you can soap into a program better than those at the bottom of your list (sounds like they are extremely new community programs), you can potentially have a good outcome.

Although I would NEVER tell anyone to soap by suicide matching, I think in your situation you may do ok depends on which med school you are from and how much they go to bat for you. I think most of the folks who didn't get surgery tend to try to soap into prelim surgery or rads/anesthesia, potentially leaving some ok IM spots for you.

Please don't ever rank like that again, however. I was faced with this dilemma recently, as I interviewed at an IR fellowship that personally didn't jive with me. I asked my significant other about her opinion and she said

"Put it last, but rank it unless the prospect of going to that place is worse than not becoming an IR. Think about it, you will be glad to find out if you matched there because that means how close you were to being unmatched"

So I ranked it.
 
aProgDirector said:
If you're SOAPing into a prelim spot, PD's will want to know what your plan going forward is. Don't waste time talking about how you always wanted to do Prelim IM.

I think it depends upon why you didn't match. If the problem is your board scores are too low, then a research year isn't going to help much (except perhaps at that program, if they really like you). If it's concern about performance in your clinical years, then a prelim might help fix that. If it's not enough academics, then a research year -- although recognize that you'll be submitting your app in Sept, so you'll only have 2.5 months before your app is due.

A real possibility, given the thread mentioning that a great program forgot to submit their ROL. There will be spots!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the thoughtful response. For this individual, board scores, clinicals and academics are all strong; interview skills are good; research was weak due to late specialty decision, so my thoughts are that delaying graduation for a research year might be a sound strategy. On the other hand, this is also the type of applicant who could find a plum in the SOAP and/or perform well in a surgical prelim. So for an applicant like this, what's the best strategy?

UPDATE: The student in question matched. Best of luck to the SOAPers here.
 
Last edited:
Well, obviously if there's a SOAP spot in the field they want and they can get it, that's probably the best option.

Failing that, it's a bit of a wash. Even if they take a research year, they will only be 2.5 months into it when apps are due, and likely will not have much to show for it. if academics are the problem, they should be working on research now. But a prelim year allows them either to match the next year into a PGY-1, or nab an open PGY-2 (if allowed after a prelim GS). Or, if they don't match into that specialty again, then allows them to continue in categorical GS or find another PGY-2 option. So, really depends. This is the type of situation that is very person/field specific -- probably best to speak with a local PD in the field if possible.
 
Just wondering do you know the unfilled programs know whether I am unmatched or partially matched in soap?
Thanks and good luck
 
Hi,

Any idea whether the unfilled programs know we are unmatched or partially matched?
Thanks
 
James 007 said:
Just wondering do you know the unfilled programs know whether I am unmatched or partially matched in soap?
Thanks and good luck
Click to expand...
You need to tell them.
 
James 007 said:
How, we are not allowed to start contacting the programs unless we get any interview we can talk there.
Click to expand...
You can tell them after they have contacted you.
You can also write a cover letter that explains your situation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
MrSunny1 said:
Not sure I was told that applicants had a 50% chance of matching to their number one choice. No idea what the odds are but they arent great especially since I didnt feel that confident about the interview.
Click to expand...

You were told this was not the case in your thread back in November when many people tried to explain to you how the match worked and told you to rank all the programs you interviewed at.

https://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/match-process-help.1230074/
 
Hi I had a question about the SOAP process and was hoping someone might know the answer. I was wondering if you had to transcript a new USMLE transcript in SOAP or if you could use the one that was already loaded into your original ERAS application? I had to retake Step 2 CS but will not get my new score until the end of April so I was just curious how the system works. Thanks!
 
dude92131 said:
Hi I had a question about the SOAP process and was hoping someone might know the answer. I was wondering if you had to transcript a new USMLE transcript in SOAP or if you could use the one that was already loaded into your original ERAS application? I had to retake Step 2 CS but will not get my new score until the end of April so I was just curious how the system works. Thanks!
Click to expand...

Whatever is in ERAS now is what you have to work with in SOAP.

You can submit new LORs and a new PS. And you can resend your USMLE transcript. But if it hasn't changed, why bother?
 
I'm geussing we have to pay for soap application? Like 45 to 20$ each? Another 900$ cold cash?
 
DokterMom said:
Thanks for the thoughtful response. For this individual, board scores, clinicals and academics are all strong; interview skills are good; research was weak due to late specialty decision, so my thoughts are that delaying graduation for a research year might be a sound strategy. On the other hand, this is also the type of applicant who could find a plum in the SOAP and/or perform well in a surgical prelim. So for an applicant like this, what's the best strategy?
Click to expand...

Depends what the goal is.

If they want to try to reapply in their original competitive field (such as ENT), then their order of priorities should be:

1. Check and see if spots available in field of choice in SOAP

2. Find a research position in desired field. The more prestigious the better.

--
If their goal is not to reapply but to try and take a lower risk route to securing a position...SOAP and a prelim year probably overall better odds but worse odds in field of choice
 
James 007 said:
Hi,

Any idea whether the unfilled programs know we are unmatched or partially matched?
Thanks
Click to expand...

It is clearly indicated in ERAS. Programs will know, and will be able to filter applicants based upon it. So, if I were to only have an Advanced spot open, I could (if I wanted) only consider those who already had a prelim. And if I had a categorical, I could eliminate anyone who matched prelim.

dude92131 said:
Hi I had a question about the SOAP process and was hoping someone might know the answer. I was wondering if you had to transcript a new USMLE transcript in SOAP or if you could use the one that was already loaded into your original ERAS application? I had to retake Step 2 CS but will not get my new score until the end of April so I was just curious how the system works. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I believe that when you apply to SOAP programs, it will automatically use your most recent USMLE transcript (i.e. whatever is available today). So the USMLE transcript will include your CS fail.

MrSunny1 said:
I'm geussing we have to pay for soap application? Like 45 to 20$ each? Another 900$ cold cash?
Click to expand...

As mentioned, no. SOAP applications are free. The "bad" news is that you only get a limited number of them, you can't purchase any more.

Addendum: This assumes you have applied to at least one ACGME program in the regular cycle. If not, there is a flat $99 fee for SOAP.
 
any IMG here want to split or have access to a matcharesident.com IMG friendly list?
 
Did mr sunny match?
 
Third unmatched application, third SOAP. I've never heard of someone going four rounds with the match, so probably the last. I know how it goes now, just have to make a decision whether I should apply to the bunch of surgery prelims. I know that most of the other categories are red herrings that fill up internally with soft SOAP violations on the first round. Hopefully I won't get an interview call like last time where they just contact me to say that they only consider partially matched people.

Anybody have advice on what jobs that qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program like unlicensed MDs?
 
randomcollusion said:
Anybody have advice on what jobs that qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program like unlicensed MDs?
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear that you went unmatched.

For PSLF all that matters is the institution, not the job. Any government or not-for-profit institution should qualify for PSLF which means that basically any job at an academic center will qualify. I see that you are listed as a post-doc now. I am currently working as a post-doc at a university and did PSLF this year. If you were interested in staying in research, you could easily find PSLF-qualifying jobs.

The real question is how much faith do you want to put in the future of PSLF.
 
Anyone have any idea if soap includes step 3 scores?
 
randomcollusion said:
Third unmatched application, third SOAP. I've never heard of someone going four rounds with the match, so probably the last. I know how it goes now, just have to make a decision whether I should apply to the bunch of surgery prelims. I know that most of the other categories are red herrings that fill up internally with soft SOAP violations on the first round. Hopefully I won't get an interview call like last time where they just contact me to say that they only consider partially matched people.

Anybody have advice on what jobs that qualify for the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program like unlicensed MDs?
Click to expand...

There is always the Missouri option now that allows you to work as an assistant physician there.
 
RookTookIt said:
Sorry to hear that you went unmatched.

For PSLF all that matters is the institution, not the job. Any government or not-for-profit institution should qualify for PSLF which means that basically any job at an academic center will qualify. I see that you are listed as a post-doc now. I am currently working as a post-doc at a university and did PSLF this year. If you were interested in staying in research, you could easily find PSLF-qualifying jobs.

The real question is how much faith do you want to put in the future of PSLF.
Click to expand...

I am 100% sure that if PSLF fails, I will spend the full 20 years in loan repayment for my direct loans, or 15 years if the current administration actually makes good on its promise.
 
Hey everyone. Former SOAP'er here (2015). It was stressful, but I'm a PGY-2 now and things have been going excellent! I love my program too! This can work out!

I'm on a busy rotation this month, but will make myself as available as possible to answer questions and give advice, here or via PM. Just hit me up.

Best of luck to you all.

SLC
 
Hello all,
I hope you guys are all thrilled with the email you recieved. I have a question.

If I ranked both categorical IM and prelim IM (without ranking any advanced Program), and got matched, without being SOAP eligible,

Does it mean I have matched into categorical position? If i matched into that one preliminary program without advanced program position (because I didn't apply to any) position, would I be eligible for SOAP?

Many thanks in advance.
 
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