SOAP 2017

[Canadianey]

I understand this is way too premature.. but I know I will end up in the SOAP. Any feedback would be amazing. I don't know anything about this process.

1) Can I change my personal statement?
2) Can I add more letters?
3) Is there anyway to find out which programs participate in the SOAP before hand...
4) Is there any hope :'(

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[mvenus929]

3) Is there anyway to find out which programs participate in the SOAP before hand...

The programs who participate in SOAP are the ones who are still unfilled and interested in trying to fill via SOAP as of noon on the Monday of match week. Since you find out whether you match or not at that time as well, there's no way to find out which programs will be in the SOAP this year. You can look at the match statistics for last year and see which programs didn't fill for an idea of what you might be able to expect, but this isn't guaranteed.

 

[Ismet]

I understand this is way too premature.. but I know I will end up in the SOAP. Any feedback would be amazing. I don't know anything about this process.

1) Can I change my personal statement?
2) Can I add more letters?
3) Is there anyway to find out which programs participate in the SOAP before hand...
4) Is there any hope :'(

I believe you're able to add personal statements and letters, it's all done through ERAS again.

The programs that are eligible to participate in SOAP are the programs that are eligible to participate in the match. As said above, no one will know what programs have open spots until the Match algorithm runs and the match/no match result comes out that Monday.

You should really really REALLY be talking to your advisor at your school if you think you may need to SOAP. The advisors were a huge help to my classmates who ended up having to SOAP, as it's a pretty hectic and stressful process, and you want to make sure you have all your ducks in a row.

 

[caffeinemia]

I believe you're able to add personal statements and letters, it's all done through ERAS again.

The programs that are eligible to participate in SOAP are the programs that are eligible to participate in the match. As said above, no one will know what programs have open spots until the Match algorithm runs and the match/no match result comes out that Monday.

You should really really REALLY be talking to your advisor at your school if you think you may need to SOAP. The advisors were a huge help to my classmates who ended up having to SOAP, as it's a pretty hectic and stressful process, and you want to make sure you have all your ducks in a row.

The updates matter, but trust me, at that point, it's who will be willing to make a phone call for you. Get PDs, deans, connected attendings at your program to make calls for you. Since you know ahead of time, that's where I'd focus. Just remember, these programs have a few days to sort this out -- they aren't gonna go over your personal statement with a fine toothed comb. Also, FYI, the PS is probably the lowest impact of all elements of your package. MSPE is probably the only bigger piece of crap.

 

[AdmiralChz]

You'll have time to update your PS, but not time to upload more letters as you have a very limited time to pick from the SOAP programs (3-4 hours if memory serves) and you can only choose a limited number (30?). Whole thing is very stressful, but everyone in my class was able to SOAP and some got extremely lucky and got a couple awesome placements. I was at a strong US MD school, though. So there is absolutely hope.

That being said, do everything you can to avoid it as you will have minimal input on what part of the country you end up in, and possibly even minimal choice of field.

 

[LATigers]

The updates matter, but trust me, at that point, it's who will be willing to make a phone call for you. Get PDs, deans, connected attendings at your program to make calls for you. Since you know ahead of time, that's where I'd focus. Just remember, these programs have a few days to sort this out -- they aren't gonna go over your personal statement with a fine toothed comb. Also, FYI, the PS is probably the lowest impact of all elements of your package. MSPE is probably the only bigger piece of crap.

PLEASE do not have people call on your behalf. #1 It's the first rule of SOAP. The applicant can not contact the program first and you can not have people contact programs on your behalf. The programs are going through thousands of applications for 1 position. They don't have time to answer phone calls from people they may or may not be interested in. In my program's case, it's always the worst candidate that has everyone and their brother calling for them! #2 Our program looks at the PS. If you couldn't bother taking a couple of minutes to change the specialty in your PS, why would we take the time to interview you? #3 We also glance at the MSPE. Perhaps the reason that person didn't match is because of some personality flaw that was demonstrated in their their previous rotations and documented in the MSPE.

I'm curious caffeinemia, have you been through SOAP as an administrator?

 

[mcl]

PLEASE do not have people call on your behalf. #1 It's the first rule of SOAP. The applicant can not contact the program first and you can not have people contact programs on your behalf. The programs are going through thousands of applications for 1 position. They don't have time to answer phone calls from people they may or may not be interested in. In my program's case, it's always the worst candidate that has everyone and their brother calling for them! #2 Our program looks at the PS. If you couldn't bother taking a couple of minutes to change the specialty in your PS, why would we take the time to interview you? #3 We also glance at the MSPE. Perhaps the reason that person didn't match is because of some personality flaw that was demonstrated in their their previous rotations and documented in the MSPE.

I'm curious caffeinemia, have you been through SOAP as an administrator?

Tiny caveat: Applicants CAN have others call on their behalf AFTER the program has initiated contact. The NRMP is very serious about this requirement and it isn't worth the risking a Match violation, so DO NOT have someone call programs in order to get them to contact you. But it's a good strategy to have someone lined up who's willing to make a call once you've been contacted.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Looking at your post history, I see that you're a Canadian IMG, that you have a Step 1 of 210, and that you failed your first attempt at Step 2, which I'm hoping you've passed now. Passed CS, great letters. And in love with surgery.

Given that, although I agree with the above, some additional thoughts:

1. Getting a good mentor to help you would be great, but won't be easy. I doubt your school will be of much benefit. if there's someone in the US who knows the US system and can give you good advice, that would be great.

2. Surgery is going to be tough. Not sure if it's still what you're interested in. The number of categorical GS spots is going to be small, and likely will be taken by the people who don't match to Ortho/Vascular/etc. So, you need to ask yourself a very important question: Are you willing to SOAP for a prelim GS spot? It would give you some chance of continuing in GS, although you could also just get a year of internship and nothing more.

3. If you're interested in a different field, we need to know what it is to give you advice. Also knowing your S2 score would be helpful.

 

[caffeinemia]

PLEASE do not have people call on your behalf. #1 It's the first rule of SOAP. The applicant can not contact the program first and you can not have people contact programs on your behalf. The programs are going through thousands of applications for 1 position. They don't have time to answer phone calls from people they may or may not be interested in. In my program's case, it's always the worst candidate that has everyone and their brother calling for them! #2 Our program looks at the PS. If you couldn't bother taking a couple of minutes to change the specialty in your PS, why would we take the time to interview you? #3 We also glance at the MSPE. Perhaps the reason that person didn't match is because of some personality flaw that was demonstrated in their their previous rotations and documented in the MSPE.

I'm curious caffeinemia, have you been through SOAP as an administrator?

You are right. You cannot just blindly blast programs. But once programs initiate contact, I believe that administrators and doctors at your school can and should go to bat for you. I guess I should have made that more explicitly clear for the uninitiated.

I have not been through SOAP in any way - either as applicant or admin. However, I was part of an institution where admin was very proactive about making sure soapers were successful and all the super competitive specialty applicants were given extensive prep. To your point about the PS -- granted I don't think anyone should submit one that is factually incorrect (ie stating the wrong specialty), but I still contend that whether it's a piece of literary genius or just a run of the mill one does not affect your chances of matching. Finally the MSPE is highly variable -- in some places it's so white washed that it's laughable. How is the bottom 25% of your class -- "Very good." And those excerpts from rotations reviews are often so full of BS that's its impossible to take seriously. While your use of MSPE as a red-flag litmus is plausible, I find the cost/benefit to be highly skewed towards the former.

You may wonder how I know? Well -- for one, I got to review my MSPE for inaccuracies as a student, and it was absolutely ludicrous -- because I definitely could not see the flaws that I had as a student on there (and yes, I wholeheartedly admit I am hugely flawed). On interviews, we also discussed my applications and so many interviewers, who had far less to review than a SOAP admin would, had no idea about my MSPE. Also, I've had the chance to review student files of the people interviewing for residency positions...and I know that several decision makers who neither trusted or did not even bother to read the MSPE. Perhaps it varies on an institutional basis and we are biased in different directions.

However, since it is your job to pick soap-ees, I defer to your expertise.

 

[IMPD]

Looking at your post history, I see that you're a Canadian IMG, that you have a Step 1 of 210, and that you failed your first attempt at Step 2, which I'm hoping you've passed now. Passed CS, great letters. And in love with surgery.

Given that, although I agree with the above, some additional thoughts:

1. Getting a good mentor to help you would be great, but won't be easy. I doubt your school will be of much benefit. if there's someone in the US who knows the US system and can give you good advice, that would be great.

2. Surgery is going to be tough. Not sure if it's still what you're interested in. The number of categorical GS spots is going to be small, and likely will be taken by the people who don't match to Ortho/Vascular/etc. So, you need to ask yourself a very important question: Are you willing to SOAP for a prelim GS spot? It would give you some chance of continuing in GS, although you could also just get a year of internship and nothing more.

3. If you're interested in a different field, we need to know what it is to give you advice. Also knowing your S2 score would be helpful.

Our resident pastafarian is being a bit nice.

Surgery,with a Step 1 of 210 is going to be brutal. Did you kill it on your retake? Other experience/research? Check the 2016 NRMP data:

Non US-IMG matched in 2016 to GS: 55.
Average Step 1 for Matched IMG to GS: ~240
Average Step 1 for UnMatched IMG to GS: ~230

GS Prelim spots are what they are -- a shot in the dark. I hope you can take this data as useful and not simply discouraging. You may be hoping for the best, and it is always wise to prepare for the worst.

 

[caffeinemia]

Our resident pastafarian is being a bit nice.

Surgery,with a Step 1 of 210 is going to be brutal. Did you kill it on your retake? Other experience/research? Check the 2016 NRMP data:

Non US-IMG matched in 2016 to GS: 55.
Average Step 1 for Matched IMG to GS: ~240
Average Step 1 for UnMatched IMG to GS: ~230

GS Prelim spots are what they are -- a shot in the dark. I hope you can take this data as useful and not simply discouraging. You may be hoping for the best, and it is always wise to prepare for the worst.

Lul, I thought you were calling me a pastafarian -- cuz I was the resident who posted before you. And it would have been accurate too, cuz pasta is delish.

 

[thxleave]

Well..... just a heads up to people preparing for the SOAP. Not matching is not the end of the world, and in fact is actually the beginning of life for me.

I didn't match into Psychiatry as a SGU 2016 graduate with Step 1 236, Step 2CK 228, and Step 2CS all first passes. I had 440k in student loans all through the federal government.

Originally I was distraught and felt everything was in disarray. I didn't even SOAP into anything. I had two options.. Fix my application to try to find something for this years match or start a new career. I left medicine, and now work for a state government in the self-funded insurance agency.

It feels freaking great. Money isn't the best, but it qualifies for PSLF. So I am technically making attending money. ~500k=800k pretaxes..... Along with interest is a million over 10 years... Divide that plus my salary! Also I get pensions and crazy PTO.

I remembered on the day I found out I didn't match, I was looking through the SOAP thread to look for something to cheer me up. All I saw were people that didn't match for years or people fired from residency that can't find jobs. Some of them are waiters, and so on. So I promise myself every time a negative thread about not matching comes up, or leaving medicine comes, I am going to post my story.

I am actually house hunting lately. I figured it'll be impossible to get a house with my monthly income and 1% of my student loan balance through traditional lenders. But actually a few lenders heard similar stories and actually I qualify once I start my 10% AGI payments.

It's only the end if you let it be.

 

[Canadianey]

Looking at your post history, I see that you're a Canadian IMG, that you have a Step 1 of 210, and that you failed your first attempt at Step 2, which I'm hoping you've passed now. Passed CS, great letters. And in love with surgery.

Given that, although I agree with the above, some additional thoughts:

1. Getting a good mentor to help you would be great, but won't be easy. I doubt your school will be of much benefit. if there's someone in the US who knows the US system and can give you good advice, that would be great.

2. Surgery is going to be tough. Not sure if it's still what you're interested in. The number of categorical GS spots is going to be small, and likely will be taken by the people who don't match to Ortho/Vascular/etc. So, you need to ask yourself a very important question: Are you willing to SOAP for a prelim GS spot? It would give you some chance of continuing in GS, although you could also just get a year of internship and nothing more.

3. If you're interested in a different field, we need to know what it is to give you advice. Also knowing your S2 score would be helpful.

You are correct in assuming that my school is of no help, they have told me to give up on medicine, and forget matching... The problem is, I cannot see myself do that. I worked very hard to get here, and I can't just .. give up. I would do anything for a prelim GS spot at this point, even if its in the middle of nowhere, but is that still possible as an Canadian IMG?

I retook my CK after 3 weeks and got a 236. I'm currently working as a research associate for a good university in Canada, and I have over 5 publications now. Also got accepted for a PhD program in molecular genetics at Queens/UFT just in case this year SOAP does not work out...

Is there ANYTHING I can do to increase my SOAP chances?

I rewrote my personal statement, addressed the fail and all the red flags on my application. I have emailed all the programs (~120) to let them know my new score and that I would love to take any unfilled spots in the future...

The ONLY other field I am slightly interested in is psychiatry and that's only because of my philosophy background. But even that I think after a few months I'd get over. Everything else is boring and sucks.

 

[Canadianey]

I believe you're able to add personal statements and letters, it's all done through ERAS again.

The programs that are eligible to participate in SOAP are the programs that are eligible to participate in the match. As said above, no one will know what programs have open spots until the Match algorithm runs and the match/no match result comes out that Monday.

You should really really REALLY be talking to your advisor at your school if you think you may need to SOAP. The advisors were a huge help to my classmates who ended up having to SOAP, as it's a pretty hectic and stressful process, and you want to make sure you have all your ducks in a row.

I have updated my statement and added a new one - thank you.
The only issue with the school is, they aren't very supportive...

 

[Canadianey]

Tiny caveat: Applicants CAN have others call on their behalf AFTER the program has initiated contact. The NRMP is very serious about this requirement and it isn't worth the risking a Match violation, so DO NOT have someone call programs in order to get them to contact you. But it's a good strategy to have someone lined up who's willing to make a call once you've been contacted.

So, just so I understand this correctly.. I know ONE program that is 1000% in SOAP.. I can ask my surgery attending to call the program director and refer me? Or is that outside the rules?

 

[mvenus929]

So, just so I understand this correctly.. I know ONE program that is 1000% in SOAP.. I can ask my surgery attending to call the program director and refer me? Or is that outside the rules?

Your attending cannot contact anyone until the program has reached out to you, else it is a match violation.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Does your attending know the PD personally? I mean like fishing or poker buddies?

 

[NotAProgDirector]

It's ridiculous that your school is telling you that you have "no chance". I think it's fair that you have no (or very limited) chances at Cat surgery, and your best plan of action is to get a prelim GS spot. You're then going to need to kick butt, possibly do a second prelim year, and then hope for the best. Or, after 1-2 years of prelim surgery, perhaps you will find a different field that you find interesting enough to explore.

A 236 on CK is a respectable score. It's right at the mean (or slightly below), but is much better than a "just barely passed".

I'm not sure what you mean by a program that is 1000% in SOAP. If there's some new program that started late and hence will only be taking people in SOAP, or a program that simply doesn't interview prelims and just uses SOAP, what you could do is have a faculty member reach out to see if they would simply rank you (for a prelim).

Last year, there were 2 Cat Surgery spots. You're not likely to get one of those, I wouldn't even bother wasting an application. There were 450 open Prelim GS spots in 132 programs. The hardest part of this is going to be figuring out which 30 programs to apply to. You should look at last year's unfilled list -- likely many of the same programs will be there.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

You are correct in assuming that my school is of no help, they have told me to give up on medicine, and forget matching... The problem is, I cannot see myself do that. I worked very hard to get here, and I can't just .. give up. I would do anything for a prelim GS spot at this point, even if its in the middle of nowhere, but is that still possible as an Canadian IMG?

I retook my CK after 3 weeks and got a 236. I'm currently working as a research associate for a good university in Canada, and I have over 5 publications now. Also got accepted for a PhD program in molecular genetics at Queens/UFT just in case this year SOAP does not work out...

Is there ANYTHING I can do to increase my SOAP chances?

I rewrote my personal statement, addressed the fail and all the red flags on my application. I have emailed all the programs (~120) to let them know my new score and that I would love to take any unfilled spots in the future...

The ONLY other field I am slightly interested in is psychiatry and that's only because of my philosophy background. But even that I think after a few months I'd get over. Everything else is boring and sucks.

A better question regarding fields is:

Is IM, FP, Peds, etc better than being unemployed with lots of loans to pay back?

 

[yurtboat]

Hi chaps

First time posting.

I'm an IM resident in the UK, born and schooled here too.

SOAPing this year.

Applied to 15 ER programs, got one interview but didn't match, it was a top tier school and the IV was fun.

Step1 210 / Step 2 230/ CS Pass all first attempt. Some strong publications in EM journals. Major flaw is that
I all my LoRs are from the UK, they pointed this out at the IV and that I graduated 3 years ago.

Looking to SOAP into Prelim IM / Prelim Surg.

Best of luck everyone and well done on the journey so far.

Today is a horrific day for many people here, but this is it - this is the cold face of how much you want it. Best of luck and please mind your mental health, talk to a friend or family. Life is awesome and time cures all wounds.

Let the excitement begin!

 

[randomcollusion]

Well..... just a heads up to people preparing for the SOAP. Not matching is not the end of the world, and in fact is actually the beginning of life for me.

I didn't match into Psychiatry as a SGU 2016 graduate with Step 1 236, Step 2CK 228, and Step 2CS all first passes. I had 440k in student loans all through the federal government.

Originally I was distraught and felt everything was in disarray. I didn't even SOAP into anything. I had two options.. Fix my application to try to find something for this years match or start a new career. I left medicine, and now work for a state government in the self-funded insurance agency.

It feels freaking great. Money isn't the best, but it qualifies for PSLF. So I am technically making attending money. ~500k=800k pretaxes..... Along with interest is a million over 10 years... Divide that plus my salary! Also I get pensions and crazy PTO.

I remembered on the day I found out I didn't match, I was looking through the SOAP thread to look for something to cheer me up. All I saw were people that didn't match for years or people fired from residency that can't find jobs. Some of them are waiters, and so on. So I promise myself every time a negative thread about not matching comes up, or leaving medicine comes, I am going to post my story.

I am actually house hunting lately. I figured it'll be impossible to get a house with my monthly income and 1% of my student loan balance through traditional lenders. But actually a few lenders heard similar stories and actually I qualify once I start my 10% AGI payments.

It's only the end if you let it be.

How did you get started on this path and what research led you to this option? I'm in sort of the same position, and I have a decent enough salary until the end of the year.

 

[gutonc]

We've got one of these threads going over here. We only really need one.

Closing.