socialism

[Pain Applicant1]

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Also how do y’all feel that everything we have is made on the heads of cheap labor around the world. Look at our phones the metals they use African people are digging it for you. Leads to more pollution in the world. All our closes probably from china and from cheap labor. Just making all these companies rich. Lowkey who was the cause of this movement the left.

There is no alternative to consumerism right now. The entire world economy depends on it. If people stopped spending and stopped wanting, we'd have a lot more problems than wealth disparity.

For me, consumerism does not lead to happiness and it's better to live a simple, frugal life.

 

[mille125]

I'm not sure reality cares about what you feel should be the case. In the real world, there is a major labor shortage. It's not even a matter of higher or lower wages. There are not enough people working. If you don't want illegals doing the work, then get Americans to do it. The problem is that outside of me and a relative handful of others, there aren't too many Americans who enjoy doing this work. This is a very serious problem and it's going to weaken us as a country. Ford's CEO has made a lot of noise about this. I see this because I work these jobs but it's not going to be much longer before you start seeing the effects too.

The U.S. labor market may soon face a new crisis: Too few workers

A severe labor shortage is set to emerge over the next decade amid a wave of baby boomer retirements and a shrinking younger workforce.

www.cbsnews.com

The problem “could hobble the American economy for years to come,” -Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.
“The largest labor shortage the country has ever seen,” -Lightcast labor market data company
(The labor shortage is) a national security risk from “a pervasive talent deficit that constrains the nation’s capacity to build, compete, and protect its interests.” -JP Morgan


View attachment 422665

I dont disagree and this is principally why I oppose the current immigration policy.

 

[Lakers$]

I'm not sure reality cares about what you feel should be the case. In the real world, there is a major labor shortage. It's not even a matter of higher or lower wages. There are not enough people working. If you don't want illegals doing the work, then get Americans to do it. The problem is that outside of me and a relative handful of others, there aren't too many Americans who enjoy doing this work. This is a very serious problem and it's going to weaken us as a country. Ford's CEO has made a lot of noise about this. I see this because I work these jobs but it's not going to be much longer before you start seeing the effects too.

The U.S. labor market may soon face a new crisis: Too few workers

A severe labor shortage is set to emerge over the next decade amid a wave of baby boomer retirements and a shrinking younger workforce.

www.cbsnews.com

The problem “could hobble the American economy for years to come,” -Georgetown University Center on Education and the Workforce.
“The largest labor shortage the country has ever seen,” -Lightcast labor market data company
(The labor shortage is) a national security risk from “a pervasive talent deficit that constrains the nation’s capacity to build, compete, and protect its interests.” -JP Morgan


View attachment 422665

Haha it really doesn’t make me feel any other way bruh. I’m just telling y’all it’s factual and that’s what I see. You might be right but why is our unemployment rate over 4. Is it bc people lazy or people just enjoy getting free stuff. Questions we gotta think about. In the route we going the whole country should just be on food stamps. You guys the left want high wages and having Americans do labor at a higher wage is what y’all want. It’s better solution then having immigrants come take over our jobs and not assimilating. Keep in mind we need to pay for the food stamps, medical, everything

 

[Lakers$]

I am not a democratic socialist and disagree with much of what they have outlined.

However, if I had to choose between them vs MAGA worshipping Trump politics and had no other choice, I would hold my nose and vote for the DSA (and I think that a majority of Americans would do the same).

That shows the problem. Most of you that are complaining do not realize or do not want to admit how corrupt and how far out from mainstream the current administration is. We are voting with North Korea and Russia in the UN!! Nothing illustrates my point more than that.

I’m not a Maga person. I’m a center voter and registered as an independent. But the options the left will have us AOC which is baddddd!!!!! The country will be doomed and china will take over. On the left their best bet will be Rubio and I’ll vote for that guy at least he tries to explain the bs the right is doing

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Haha it really doesn’t make me feel any other way bruh. I’m just telling y’all it’s factual and that’s what I see. You might be right but why is our unemployment rate over 4. Is it bc people lazy or people just enjoy getting free stuff. Questions we gotta think about. In the route we going the whole country should just be on food stamps. You guys the left want high wages and having Americans do labor at a higher wage is what y’all want. It’s better solution then having immigrants come take over our jobs and not assimilating. Keep in mind we need to pay for the food stamps, medical, everything

You said "...I feel American should take on the labor and ask for more money a..." so that's why I started my point by saying it doesn't matter what you feel.

You can spend your time philosophizing and trying to figure out why we have 4% unemployment with so many jobs available, but while you're doing this, I still need to work and produce. I don't have the luxury of waiting.

You can't force someone to work and it isn't easy switching from a non-labor job to labor. It's a different type of work and skill and requires a different type of psychology. I'm going to assume that, as a doctor, you would have a very difficult time doing repetitive, menial factory work. It's similar.

---

Fantastic, so far on this site I've been accused of being racist, both antisemitic and pro Israel, a far rightist, and now I'm on the left. Might as well round it out. I must be doing something right.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

I’m not a Maga person. I’m a center voter and registered as an independent. But the options the left will have us AOC which is baddddd!!!!! The country will be doomed and china will take over. On the left their best bet will be Rubio and I’ll vote for that guy at least he tries to explain the bs the right is doing

You're an interesting guy and I want to follow you.

You're saying if AOC takes over, we become a socialist nation.
Socialism equals Communism
Socialism/Communism will doom us because it is an inherently awful, ineffective system
-----
China will take over because China will be stronger than us
Yet China is Socialist/Communist

Did I get it right?

China may override us on the world stage, but if they do, it's because they put the time and effort into working. They know sacrifice, dedication, and hard labor, and a good portion of their population is highly intelligent.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

Haha it really doesn’t make me feel any other way bruh. I’m just telling y’all it’s factual and that’s what I see. You might be right but why is our unemployment rate over 4. Is it bc people lazy or people just enjoy getting free stuff. Questions we gotta think about. In the route we going the whole country should just be on food stamps. You guys the left want high wages and having Americans do labor at a higher wage is what y’all want. It’s better solution then having immigrants come take over our jobs and not assimilating. Keep in mind we need to pay for the food stamps, medical, everything

Which immigrants are not assimilating? Latino ones?

After a few short generations, Latinos no longer speak Spanish and identify as white? How exactly is that not assimilating?

What do you think about this article?

More Hispanics Are Identifying As White

Latin American immigrants and their descendants are assimilating to the majority culture.

www.city-journal.org

 

[Lakers$]

You said "...I feel American should take on the labor and ask for more money a..." so that's why I started my point by saying it doesn't matter what you feel.

You can spend your time philosophizing and trying to figure out why we have 4% unemployment with so many jobs available, but while you're doing this, I still need to work and produce. I don't have the luxury of waiting.

You can't force someone to work and it isn't easy switching from a non-labor job to labor. It's a different type of work and skill and requires a different type of psychology. I'm going to assume that, as a doctor, you would have a very difficult time doing repetitive, menial factory work. It's similar.

---

Fantastic, so far on this site I've been accused of being racist, both antisemitic and pro Israel, a far rightist, and now I'm on the left. Might as well round it out. I must be doing something right.

Okay let me remove the feel part haha. Don’t take it to serious it’s all conversation.

 

[Lakers$]

Which immigrants are not assimilating? Latino ones?

After a few short generations, Latinos no longer speak Spanish and identify as white? How exactly is that not assimilating?

What do you think about this article?

More Hispanics Are Identifying As White

Latin American immigrants and their descendants are assimilating to the majority culture.

www.city-journal.org

No the people that are coming in in the recent years. Past 10 years

 

[Lakers$]

No the people that are coming in in the recent years. Past 10 years

You're an interesting guy and I want to follow you.

You're saying if AOC takes over, we become a socialist nation.
Socialism equals Communism
Socialism/Communism will doom us because it is an inherently awful, ineffective system
-----
China will take over because China will be stronger than us
Yet China is Socialist/Communist

Did I get it right?

China may override us on the world stage, but if they do, it's because they put the time and effort into working. They know sacrifice, dedication, and hard labor, and a good portion of their population is highly intelligent.

That’s why I’m saying china will take over bc AOC has similar ideologies. But I should fix my post and say we will be the next china. There you go, I can work with your thought of thinking now

 

[emergentmd]

Below is the list. If you have lived in any of these places do you think that any US city is more liveable?

• Copenhagen, Denmark
• Vienna, Austria
• Melbourne, Australia
• Sydney, Australia
• Zurich, Switzerland
• Geneva, Switzerland
• Osaka, Japan
• Adelaide, Australia
• Vancouver, Canada
• Tokyo, Japan

I have stayed at those in red including Paris, Barcelona, Venice, Rome, Madrid not to mention many other non 1st world cities.

I would not trade where I live in the US for any of those.

 

[hyperalgesia]

I am not a democratic socialist and disagree with much of what they have outlined.

However, if I had to choose between them vs MAGA worshipping Trump politics and had no other choice, I would hold my nose and vote for the DSA (and I think that a majority of Americans would do the same).

That shows the problem. Most of you that are complaining do not realize or do not want to admit how corrupt and how far out from mainstream the current administration is. We are voting with North Korea and Russia in the UN!! Nothing illustrates my point more than that.

If it comes down to Marco Rubio or a DSA member, who will you vote for?

 

[Lakers$]

If it comes down to Marco Rubio or a DSA member, who will you vote for?

Rubio all the way. I’ll go with JD Vance before a DSA

 

[mille125]

If it comes down to Marco Rubio or a DSA member, who will you vote for?

Rubio but not enthusiasticly

 

[mille125]

Rubio all the way. I’ll go with JD Vance before a DSA

Rubio over DSA over Vance

 

[mille125]

Which immigrants are not assimilating? Latino ones?

After a few short generations, Latinos no longer speak Spanish and identify as white? How exactly is that not assimilating?

What do you think about this article?

More Hispanics Are Identifying As White

Latin American immigrants and their descendants are assimilating to the majority culture.

www.city-journal.org

Most Latinos that I know do identify as white.

That is principally why Trump had such support from a lot of Latinos even with blatantly anti immigrant and anti Latino rhetoric.

It led to some being totally shocked that they were getting targeted by ICE and the admin.

Those illusions are largely gone now but the dynamics are quite interesting. I will say that the Republicans should have no illusions that they are going to get totally walloped in heavy Latino areas.

 

[hyperalgesia]

Rubio over DSA over Vance

Wow, you'd prefer the DSA platform to Vance?

 

[mille125]

You're an interesting guy and I want to follow you.

You're saying if AOC takes over, we become a socialist nation.
Socialism equals Communism
Socialism/Communism will doom us because it is an inherently awful, ineffective system
-----
China will take over because China will be stronger than us
Yet China is Socialist/Communist

Did I get it right?

China may override us on the world stage, but if they do, it's because they put the time and effort into working. They know sacrifice, dedication, and hard labor, and a good portion of their population is highly intelligent.

The US may very well regress and weaken on the world stage especially with current leadership but China won't be taking over anyone.

China's rise is dead. What killed it is demographics. China is on pace to be well under a billion people by the last half of the century. The also give very little govt revenue to socialized programs so there will be an uprising as people starve.n

China knows this. They are going nowhere. They have 10 times as many problems as the US.

 

[Pain Applicant1]

No the people that are coming in in the recent years. Past 10 years

Assimilation doesn't typically work like that. What exactly are your expectations for someone who came here as an adult and who has lived here for only 10 years? It's much wiser and more realistic to look at assimilation on a generational level.

You do realize that every immigrant group to this country receives the same response. They don't look, act, live, behave, believe like us, etc. They're a threat to us, etc. It's just human nature.

-------------

What do you think about Ben Franklin's fear of immigration? He didn't want dark people from a different culture who spoke a foreign language taking over the American colonies. In this case, the dark people were the Germans, whom he considered swarthy. Keep in mind that the Angles and the Saxons lived in Germania before they migrated to Britain. They're essentially the same people as Germans.

-----------

...why should the Palatine boors be suffered to swarm into our settlements, and by herding together establish their languages and manners to the exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our language or customs, any more than they can acquire our complexion? -Ben Franklin

That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. -Ben Franklin

 

[Pain Applicant1]

That’s why I’m saying china will take over bc AOC has similar ideologies. But I should fix my post and say we will be the next china. There you go, I can work with your thought of thinking now

I don't think that will happen. They're becoming more like us. They're hardly communist. They're run by a dictatorship for sure, but they're more capitalistic than we are in many ways. At times, there's less red tape when it comes to starting businesses and less gov regulation, that is, as long as you keep your criticisms of the gov to yourself.

Source: myself, I import a lot and do a lot of business with Chinese companies

 

[mille125]

Wow, you'd prefer the DSA platform to Vance?

I would hold my nose but yes...

 

[hyperalgesia]

You may be right but it is interesting that none of the top 10 livable cities are in the US. They are all in Europe, Australia, or Canada (Vancouver made it). None of the bottom 10 cities are in the US either.

What US city do you think is the best to live in? I have travelled around and visited a lot of cities. I would say San Diego or Seattle are my favorites but they both get high dings for affordability.

Below is the list. If you have lived in any of these places do you think that any US city is more liveable?

• Copenhagen, Denmark
• Vienna, Austria
• Melbourne, Australia
• Sydney, Australia
• Zurich, Switzerland
• Geneva, Switzerland
• Osaka, Japan
• Adelaide, Australia
• Vancouver, Canada
• Tokyo, Japan

I can't believe you fall for this AI slop. It's just a bot that goes through the big data and tells you what the "best" is.

America is the most liveable country in the world, hands down. And it's not the cities but the burbs and towns which are affordable, clean, and where your Amazon order shows up the next day.

 

[mille125]

I can't believe you fall for this AI slop. It's just a bot that goes through the big data and tells you what the "best" is.

America is the most liveable country in the world, hands down. And it's not the cities but the burbs and towns which are affordable, clean, and where your Amazon order shows up the next day.

It came from US News and World Report but you in your conspiracy theories probably thing that they are bots. Ok you tell me. Lets look at the criteria used and see what you think

1) Healthcare- I think we all agree is the we have some of the greatest healthcare for a small few and mediocre at best for the masses. In the US it is very expensive and very uneven. Do you think differently?

2) Crime and Safety- You have been a ring leader on saying how unsafe multiple places are so I wouldn't expect you to rate the US high on this statistic.

3) Income equality- Again we probably aren't top 10 here.

4) Drinking water/sanitation/infrastructure- We are high on the first two maybe middling on the last one.

5) Life expectancy- It has been well documented that we rank near last on this stat as well as maternal mortality (which is not ranked for this).

6) Freedom of expression- Traditionally a strength. Probably still high but definitely degraded under this admin.

7) Overall happiness- Do you think that Americans are generally happy? I may be wrong but I dont get the impression that they are. Just go to any Republican convention or Trump rally. Is the mood happy?

8) Culture and Tourism- In the past we were top 5 but if you ask anyone in the hospitality business they will tell you the tourism is down. I was recently in Vegas and paid $145 per night at a top end hotel that is usually $300 plus. They are hurting.

9) Opportunity- Generally high but probably not the highest. Pain App is adamant that it is easier to open a business in China than America. Who knows, he may be right.

10) Natural Enviroment, Air Quality- We are middle of the pack here.
.

So this is what they graded the scores on. 10 categories at 10 points each for 100 possible points. So tell me where you rank us.

 

[specepic]

I would hold my nose but yes...

What would the DSA like to do with your net worth/ wealth? and you are ok with that?

 

[emergentmd]

If you offered every 1st world country a one time chance to live anywhere in the world, I would bet that the US would have a large net plus immigration.

The living conditions compared to Europe/japan is just starkly different. Docs in the US lives in 3500+ sqft home and have serious financial freedom. This is not the same in Europe.

I know a radiologist friend living In paris and he is actively trying to come to the US. I know zero docs from my med school or residency that works abroad.

The middle class here have as relatively great standard of living as they just choose to overspend.

It’s a fallacy that we have the worse health metrics. It has nothing to done our healthcare but our lazy obese “far” cat population.

Switch our population with Europeans and you would see a jump in all health metrics. Our heath metrics are a testament to our great healthcare given how poorly we treat our bodies.

 

[mille125]

If you offered every 1st world country a one time chance to live anywhere in the world, I would bet that the US would have a large net plus immigration.

The living conditions compared to Europe/japan is just starkly different. Docs in the US lives in 3500+ sqft home and have serious financial freedom. This is not the same in Europe.

I know a radiologist friend living In paris and he is actively trying to come to the US. I know zero docs from my med school or residency that works abroad.

The middle class here have as relatively great standard of living as they just choose to overspend.

It’s a fallacy that we have the worse health metrics. It has nothing to done our healthcare but our lazy obese “far” cat population.

Switch our population with Europeans and you would see a jump in all health metrics. Our heath metrics are a testament to our great healthcare given how poorly we treat our bodies.

If you say so

 

[mille125]

What would the DSA like to do with your net worth/ wealth? and you are ok with that?

Maybe some of you are billionaires. I am not.

Again, not my first, second, or third choice....but if you put them up against Trump or someone like him. then I dont choose Trump

 

[specepic]

Maybe some of you are billionaires. I am not.

Again, not my first, second, or third choice....but if you put them up against Trump or someone like him. then I dont choose Trump

They say they just want the billonares.... But we both know the reality is there is not actually that much money there to be had

Strangely enough when they talk about they want to do things like Europe or specifically Scandinavia the do not mention that the tax systems in those countries is actually not nearly as progressive as the US. Everyone gets taxed in those countries. Here low income earners get taxed very little

 

[mille125]

They say they just want the billonares.... But we both know the reality is there is not actually that much money there to be had

Strangely enough when they talk about they want to do things like Europe or specifically Scandinavia the do not mention that the tax systems in those countries is actually not nearly as progressive as the US. Everyone gets taxed in those countries. Here low income earners get taxed very little

Their platform wants to increase taxes on large corporations and the ultra-wealthy. For some reason there is widespread protection of this class on this forum when those people could care squat about you. Trump paid under 5K in tax over a 6 year period. Many folks seem to be ok with that but they complain that the poor are abusing the system. That is crumbs compared to the benefits that the ultra wealthy class receives but I guess that is ok, right?

I dont agree with the DSA platform in general but they would go thru normal processes instead of writing phoney executive orders and trampling on Constitutional rights. There is nothing worse than that.

 

[clubdeac]

mille should put his money where his mouth is and move overseas. He won’t bc his entire argument is bs

 

[Pain Applicant1]

That’s why I’m saying china will take over bc AOC has similar ideologies. But I should fix my post and say we will be the next china. There you go, I can work with your thought of thinking now

I coined a term for China. ChINO

China is Chino and Chino is Spanish for Chinese. Pretty cool.

ChINO = Communist In Name Only.

What u think about it?

 

[clubdeac]

I coined a term for China. ChINO

China is Chino and Chino is Spanish for Chinese. Pretty cool.

ChINO = Communist In Name Only.

What u think about it?

I think if they could they would wine and dine you till you were fat and happy and then just when you thought y’all were tight, they’d cut off your head

 

[Pain Applicant1]

I think if they could they would wine and dine you till you were fat and happy and then just when you thought y’all were tight, they’d cut off your head

Joke's on them. I'm already fat and happy

 

[bubaghanush]

mille should put his money where his mouth is and move overseas. He won’t bc his entire argument is bs

Nothing wrong with loving this country and wanting to improve it. That's as American as it gets.

Strangely enough when they talk about they want to do things like Europe or specifically Scandinavia the do not mention that the tax systems in those countries is actually not nearly as progressive as the US. Everyone gets taxed in those countries. Here low income earners get taxed very little

But their safety net and social services are vastly superior. I don't know anything about DSA but I'd wager most of those asking to tax the billionaires would be okay with everyone paying taxes if it gets us a decent safety net for all.

 

[clubdeac]

Nothing wrong with loving this country and wanting to improve it. That's as American as it gets.


But their safety net and social services are vastly superior. I don't know anything about DSA but I'd wager most of those asking to tax the billionaires would be okay with everyone paying taxes if it gets us a decent safety net for all.

I think America’s safety net is pretty generous. Remember those horrific cuts to Medicaid. Republicans were trying to end the Biden era subsidies that increased medicaid eligibility to $60k. It’s kinda crazy that you could make $60k and still be eligible for a safety net like Medicaid

I don’t think we can have things like universal healthcare, living wages and broad entitlement expansion in a country as large and diverse as America without a significant increase in taxes on the bottom 1/2 which now contribute 3% of total tax revenue. Our tax burden would also need to exceed 50%. Neither the rich or the poor would stomach that

 

[emergentmd]

DSA do not understand economics. Hope they push all of their bullet points on NYC and see what happens. I may be wrong, but economic realities typically hit like a brick wall.

Take free or discounted grocery stores. How will this be sustainable short of tax payer bailouts/subsidies. How will they keep anything on the shelves?

 

[hyperalgesia]

DSA do not understand economics. Hope they push all of their bullet points on NYC and see what happens. I may be wrong, but economic realities typically hit like a brick wall.

Take free or discounted grocery stores. How will this be sustainable short of tax payer bailouts/subsidies. How will they keep anything on the shelves?

I haven't really seen socialists ever learn anything from their mistakes. When things inevitably fail, they just blame capitalists and "the Rich".

I think we really need to focus on educating kids that inequity is a natural and healthy quality of a society that should inspire and motivate people. And that class envy is a tragic character flaw.

 

[specepic]

Their platform wants to increase taxes on large corporations and the ultra-wealthy. For some reason there is widespread protection of this class on this forum when those people could care squat about you. Trump paid under 5K in tax over a 6 year period. Many folks seem to be ok with that but they complain that the poor are abusing the system. That is crumbs compared to the benefits that the ultra wealthy class receives but I guess that is ok, right?

I dont agree with the DSA platform in general but they would go thru normal processes instead of writing phoney executive orders and trampling on Constitutional rights. There is nothing worse than that.

You should look at the percentage of total taxes paid by the top 10% and the top 1% and then circle back

I have no problem with people at low income paying smaller amounts of tax (in most cases). What I find problematic is the disingenuous and dishonest argument about the Rich 'not paying their fair share'

It is such an easy and lazy argument by DSA/Left and others vilify the "rich "

The reality is if you want to have the actual revenue for more aggressive social programs like you see in Europe you have to TAX everyone and tax them heavily and they know that is actually not politically popular/feasible. Of course what a great sales pitch it is to tell people they can have everything they want and not have to pay for it.

 

[Ducttape]

You should look at the percentage of total taxes paid by the top 10% and the top 1% and then circle back

that is a statistic without context.

the top 10% pays 71% of the overall taxes in the US.

the top 10% also owns 71% of the overall wealth in the US.

what you dont factor in your assumptions this is that the effects of taxing those with little money is much greater than taxing those who have plenty.


tax someone in the 0.5%, and they might not be able to afford their 4th yacht, or an extra rolex per year.

tax someone below poverty, and there goes the electricity or their job because they cant afford to fix their car.

I have no problem with people at low income paying smaller amounts of tax (in most cases). What I find problematic is the disingenuous and dishonest argument about the Rich 'not paying their fair share'

because they dont?

It is such an easy and lazy argument by DSA/Left and others vilify the "rich "

The reality is if you want to have the actual revenue for more aggressive social programs like you see in Europe you have to TAX everyone and tax them heavily and they know that is actually not politically popular/feasible. Of course what a great sales pitch it is to tell people they can have everything they want and not have to pay for it.

if you want revenue for more aggressive social programs, you set aside money for these programs, you do tax everyone but you tax those who are ultra wealthy appropriately and make sure they avoid tax loopholes that allow them to pay no taxes for years on end ("buy borrow die")

most importantly you stop getting in to wars with no purpose and reduce unnecessary military spending.

 

[bubaghanush]

I think America’s safety net is pretty generous. Remember those horrific cuts to Medicaid. Republicans were trying to end the Biden era subsidies that increased medicaid eligibility to $60k. It’s kinda crazy that you could make $60k and still be eligible for a safety net like Medicaid

I don’t think we can have things like universal healthcare, living wages and broad entitlement expansion in a country as large and diverse as America without a significant increase in taxes on the bottom 1/2 which now contribute 3% of total tax revenue. Our tax burden would also need to exceed 50%. Neither the rich or the poor would stomach that

Universal healthcare, universal childcare, better sick leave and disability protection - I think these are all reasonable. No one wants to be medically bankrupt.

DSA do not understand economics. Hope they push all of their bullet points on NYC and see what happens. I may be wrong, but economic realities typically hit like a brick wall.

Take free or discounted grocery stores. How will this be sustainable short of tax payer bailouts/subsidies. How will they keep anything on the shelves?

Um why? I think the right really doesn't like Mamdani so are desperately hoping he fails. Decreased crime and improved childcare access aren't the doom and gloom Republicans were hoping for. Even Trump said he likes the guy.

30% off produce and meat in grocery stores. Do you really think that's going to bankrupt the taxpayer? Where's the outrage over Big Farm subsidies?

 

[clubdeac]

Universal healthcare, universal childcare, better sick leave and disability protection - I think these are all reasonable. No one wants to be medically bankrupt.



Um why? I think the right really doesn't like Mamdani so are desperately hoping he fails. Decreased crime and improved childcare access aren't the doom and gloom Republicans were hoping for. Even Trump said he likes the guy.

30% off produce and meat in grocery stores. Do you really think that's going to bankrupt the taxpayer? Where's the outrage over Big Farm subsidies?

He’s already spent $70 million on 5 grocery stores. Socialism has been tried and failed. Will be an interesting experiment for NYC. Unfortunately, the residents will be the real losers.

 

[Ducttape]

so its failed in sweden.

its failed in denmark.

its failed in norway.

its failed in iceland.

its failed in finland.


oh snap no.


interestingly, those 5 countries have the highest happiness ratings around the world (the US is 24th)

the reason why socialist programs dont work as well in the US? because one side persistently works to defund and eliminate the programs and blacklist them as "communist"

 

[specepic]

so its failed in sweden.

its failed in denmark.

its failed in norway.

its failed in iceland.

its failed in finland.


oh snap no.


interestingly, those 5 countries have the highest happiness ratings around the world (the US is 24th)

the reason why socialist programs dont work as well in the US? because one side persistently works to defund and eliminate the programs and blacklist them as "communist"

I am sure we can go round and round, and as I am sure you have also read -- there is a difference between countries that are relatively small geography wise to our country that are also in general more homogeneous in their population, and also probably more ideologically aligned across their population. That has a big impact on how successful something like this would be. Personally I say we do some experiments. let some states tax everyone to the 9's-- low, middle and high earners and provide more safety net programs and lets see how it goes and contrast that to let say Florida. NY vs FL, lets do it

One of the big points that is often avoided in this discussion is the incredibly high tax rates across the entire population whereas in the US we actually are more progressive in our taxation and these countries above are actually much more regressive. Everyone pays into the system there, and significantly so

 

[Lakers$]

I haven't really seen socialists ever learn anything from their mistakes. When things inevitably fail, they just blame capitalists and "the Rich".

I think we really need to focus on educating kids that inequity is a natural and healthy quality of a society that should inspire and motivate people. And that class envy is a tragic character flaw.

I agree we need to improve our education. Golden years of USA education was 2000-2015. We had teachers that really cared and just taught us the right way. There was never people brainwashing our kids wihj politics or their beliefs. Our system was more patriotic too every morning we had to sing the anthem, see president elected give their speech.

 

[clubdeac]

so its failed in sweden.

its failed in denmark.

its failed in norway.

its failed in iceland.

its failed in finland.


oh snap no.


interestingly, those 5 countries have the highest happiness ratings around the world (the US is 24th)

the reason why socialist programs dont work as well in the US? because one side persistently works to defund and eliminate the programs and blacklist them as "communist"

I asked google what countries are more diverse than the US and the answer was Chad, Cameroon, Nigeria and Togo. Then I asked what countries were more egalitarian and the answer was Sweden, Denmark and Norway.

When Alex Karp says "no one does it at our scale," he's making an important point. Norway and Denmark have smaller populations than New York City. Sweden is only slightly larger. All three were very homogeneous, high trust nations until just recently. It's much easier to create an egalitarian society with 8 million people with the same religion in a small area speaking the same language than 330 million spread across a continent speaking 400 different languages.

Humanity's default historical condition is pretty grim: hereditary aristocracy, slavery, conquest as a legitimate political tool, famine as a routine event, zero upward mobility, and the idea that most people simply had no say in how they were governed being taken completely for granted. Against that backdrop, a country that has maintained peaceful transfers of power for 250 years, expanded the franchise repeatedly, built the world's largest middle class, and absorbed wave after wave of immigration without dissolving seems miraculous.

Some of our progress was extraordinarily slow and painful — civil rights took a literal war and another century of struggle after that. The Civil War was the deadliest war in U.S. history, more lethal than both World War I and World War II combined, and it left half of the country a virtual wasteland.

It's true that several other countries have made comparable or faster journeys from worse starting points — South Korea, Japan post-WWII, Germany after Nazism. The US doesn't have a monopoly on achievement. When the countries destroyed by war and those released from communist control 44 years later embraced capitalism, they too flourished. Wealthy capitalist democracies — the US, Germany, Japan, Scandinavia, Canada, Australia — score better on political rights, rule of law, social mobility, and equality than other states. There's robust empirical literature linking GDP per capita to democratic stability and rights protection.

191K views · 9.8K reactions | Alex Karp says supporting America does not mean pretending it has never made mistakes. His argument is that the country has done many things wrong, but it has also shown an ability to improve, change, and hold itself to

Alex Karp says supporting America does not mean pretending it has never made mistakes. His argument is that the country has done many things wrong, but it has also shown an ability to improve,...

www.facebook.com

 

[Ducttape]

I am sure we can go round and round, and as I am sure you have also read -- there is a difference between countries that are relatively small geography wise to our country that are also in general more homogeneous in their population, and also probably more ideologically aligned across their population. That has a big impact on how successful something like this would be. Personally I say we do some experiments. let some states tax everyone to the 9's-- low, middle and high earners and provide more safety net programs and lets see how it goes and contrast that to let say Florida. NY vs FL, lets do it

One of the big points that is often avoided in this discussion is the incredibly high tax rates across the entire population whereas in the US we actually are more progressive in our taxation and these countries above are actually much more regressive. Everyone pays into the system there, and significantly so

we actually have that data. at least with regards to health.

Life Expectancy by State 2026

Life expectancy rankings for all 50 states. Compare longevity rates, explore historical trends and projections, and see what drives differences in life expectancy nationwide. Current US average: 78.50

worldpopulationreview.com

states with highest life expectancy happen to be predominantly blue states:
to wit, highest in order are Hawaii, New Jersey, New York, Mass, California, Connecticut, Minnesota, Rhode Island. then comes Utah.

worst are Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Alabama, Kentucky, West Virginia and dead last Mississippi.

(Florida 12 and Texas 28)

this pattern is continued with regards to education by public school ranking:

Public School Rankings by State 2026

New York ranks highest for public schools in 2026, while Arizona ranks lowest.

worldpopulationreview.com

NY, Conn, Mass, NJ, Ill are tops.
NM, Ok, Nevada, Alaska and Ariz worst. (yes Ariz and NM are purple)

and by happiness raking. the happiest states are:
hawaii, maryland, nebraska, new jersey, conn, utah, california

least happy states are NM, Tennessee, Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Louisiana, West Virginia (dead last)


what is most remarkable about these stats, besides the fact that blue states tend to be at the very top and red states at the bottom? the states with the highest taxes tend to be at the top too.

 

[hyperalgesia]

we actually have that data. at least with regards to health.

Life Expectancy by State 2026

Life expectancy rankings for all 50 states. Compare longevity rates, explore historical trends and projections, and see what drives differences in life expectancy nationwide. Current US average: 78.50

worldpopulationreview.com

states with highest life expectancy happen to be predominantly blue states:
to wit, highest in order are Hawaii, New Jersey, New York, Mass, California, Connecticut, Minnesota, Rhode Island. then comes Utah.

worst are Oklahoma, Louisiana, Arkansas, Tennessee, Alabama, Kentucky, West Virginia and dead last Mississippi.

(Florida 12 and Texas 28)

this pattern is continued with regards to education by public school ranking:

Public School Rankings by State 2026

New York ranks highest for public schools in 2026, while Arizona ranks lowest.

worldpopulationreview.com

NY, Conn, Mass, NJ, Ill are tops.
NM, Ok, Nevada, Alaska and Ariz worst. (yes Ariz and NM are purple)

and by happiness raking. the happiest states are:
hawaii, maryland, nebraska, new jersey, conn, utah, california

least happy states are NM, Tennessee, Alabama, Alaska, Arkansas, Louisiana, West Virginia (dead last)


what is most remarkable about these stats, besides the fact that blue states tend to be at the very top and red states at the bottom? the states with the highest taxes tend to be at the top too.

Wow, your entire analysis doesn't even mention obesity as a factor.

 

[mille125]

mille should put his money where his mouth is and move overseas. He won’t bc his entire argument is bs

You bash me all day long but never actually refute or disprove anything that I say.

 

[mille125]

You should look at the percentage of total taxes paid by the top 10% and the top 1% and then circle back

I have no problem with people at low income paying smaller amounts of tax (in most cases). What I find problematic is the disingenuous and dishonest argument about the Rich 'not paying their fair share'

It is such an easy and lazy argument by DSA/Left and others vilify the "rich "

The reality is if you want to have the actual revenue for more aggressive social programs like you see in Europe you have to TAX everyone and tax them heavily and they know that is actually not politically popular/feasible. Of course what a great sales pitch it is to tell people they can have everything they want and not have to pay for it.

You guys like google searches so use it here.

I have already mentioned Trump who had a couple of years with less than $1000 of tax but lets look at others.

How much tax did elon musk pay..

One year he paid a lot of tax. For 2014-2018....1.52 billion in income....455 million in tax (that is 3.27% for the math impaired)
2018....zero tax.

Ok...Jeff Bezos......Total wealth grew by 127 billion 2006 to 2018.....his tax rate 1.1% In 2011 the guy actually qualified for and received $4000 in the child tax credit meant for working parents. He was in poverty on paper

Ok Mark Zuckerberg......well unlike the others he does draw a base salary....it is only a dollar but that is better than zero right but guess what his tax rate is simiilar to the others....1.1 percent over 2013-2018


Bill Gates who like me says that the system should make billionaire pay more did pay 18% in 2013-2018

But yet you guys are fixated on the poorer working class folks.


I just dont get it. Why are you wanting to protect the ultra-wealthy while villifying the poor?

 

[lobelsteve]

You guys like google searches so use it here.

I have already mentioned Trump who had a couple of years with less than $1000 of tax but lets look at others.

How much tax did elon musk pay..

One year he paid a lot of tax. For 2014-2018....1.52 billion in income....455 million in tax (that is 3.27% for the math impaired)
2018....zero tax.

Ok...Jeff Bezos......Total wealth grew by 127 billion 2006 to 2018.....his tax rate 1.1% In 2011 the guy actually qualified for and received $4000 in the child tax credit meant for working parents. He was in poverty on paper

Ok Mark Zuckerberg......well unlike the others he does draw a base salary....it is only a dollar but that is better than zero right but guess what his tax rate is simiilar to the others....1.1 percent over 2013-2018


Bill Gates who like me says that the system should make billionaire pay more did pay 18% in 2013-2018

But yet you guys are fixated on the poorer working class folks.


I just dont get it. Why are you wanting to protect the ultra-wealthy while villifying the poor?

I posted elsewhere on tax policy. No deductions and simplify tax code. Let there be no way for people who have high net worth avoid contributing.