Sociology undergrad, cognitive neuroscience master's.

[CogNeuroGuy]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I was curious to see what the general consensus is for my chances for a DO school, maybe MD, but probably most likely DO.

I have an undergraduate in sociology with a minor in psychology. I did attend a music school for my first year (didn't do so well), then went to my local community college here in Texas and completed an A.A. degree in liberal arts. After getting my undergrad, I went directly into a master's program in cognitive neuroscience at UT Dallas. I have a pretty good GPA (I will list my stats below). My main question is going to be, what is my chance of actually becoming a DO? I have considered the RN route as well as the PA route (both have their merits). I used to research neuropsychology and worked in neurology at UTSW for a year and LOVED my rotations in neurology. I am 26, turning 27 in July, I would need to go back to do most of the pre-reqs for med school, and I was honestly thinking of doing them at the community college, especially since I will need to get a job very soon before I graduate in May.

Undergrad GPA breakdown:
Overall (includes all institutions and music school): 3.23
Major (sociology: 3.77)
Minor: 3.60
Last 60 hours: 3.73

Current master's GPA: 3.61 (I am still enrolled in 12 hours of coursework and hope to get this to a 3.7+ by May).

I would like honest answers, if you think this is too far gone, simply say it. Before I make the decision to spend another 2 years completing pre-reqs and working full time, I want to know if it is feasible. Ideally, I have interests in psychiatry, neurology and family medicine.

 

[kalat]

I'm actually a little confused on how you didn't manage to complete any pre-requisites considering your masters in neuroscience? Coming from someone who also did neuroscience, the program must be way more "soft" focused as most neuroscience programs would require the chemistry, biology, and physics that would meet the pre-requisites. Most I would imagine also require the organic chemistry and biochemistry (especially at the graduate level), but I can imagine a number leaving those out if not necessary.

Regardless, as far as your chance for MD or DO you should know medical schools are very much concerned with your undergraduate GPA and not so much your graduate GPA. Your personal GPA distinctions are going to be irrelevant, and you need to parse out these three GPAs based off of AMCAS or AACOMAS guidelines: science GPA, non-science GPA, and cumulative GPA. It is important to note these differ based on which classes fit in which area for which application service (e.g. AACOMAS does not count math classes in science GPA). Significantly, AACOMAS also allows you to replace grades.

I'm going to do some crude outlining here so this will not be 100% accurate, but I think it will help you gauge your competitiveness based off stats alone: For GPA the average MD matriculate has a 3.6 and the average DO has a 3.4. For the MCAT, the average matriculate has a 31 and for DO the average matriculate has a 27. I would say a standard range for GPA is probably most reasonably +/- 0.2 points (3.4-3.8 for MD, 3.2-3.6 for DO) and +/- 3.0 points from the average for the MCAT (28-34 for MD, 24-30 for DO). It's my opinion that these counterbalance each other, so if you're on the low end of one you need to be on the high end of the other. If you fall within those bounds or exceed them then you'll most likely have a good chance at seeing an interview on stats alone.

With all that said, you're never too far gone. You really just need to make the decision of whether or not you want to commit another nine or more years of education to this. I'm really here to tell you it is the case that most people can get into and complete medical school if they want it, but it takes time and dedication. Two years for pre-requisites, four years of medical school, and at least three years of residency. You may need to take a fellowship after you're done with residency. You will be paid (badly) in residency and fellowship, and you will have the burden of loans before you make your first real pay check in your tenth year out - where you'll be 36 years old.

 

[PlaqueBuster]

Seeing that you have been distanced from undergrad for some time now, I would say do not worry about that GPA. It is low at 3.23 but nothing to do now. If you are interested in doing DO then you need to take the pre-reqs and try to get above a 3.5 sGPA. Also, an mcat of 27+ will be helpful to coutnerbalance the low undergrad gpa. I don't think there is any reason for you to retake undergrad courses now especially if you will be taking all the pre-med reqs. Also, I would not focus too much on MD programs. Sure you can apply to 4-5 lower tier schools but focus on applying broadly to 10-12 DO schools. During the time you take courses, you need to make some time for volunteering and shadowing. You job may get in the way of it but without clinical exposure you will have a tough time being selected for interviews.

1. You are not too old if that is what you are thinking but you will be applying atleast 2 years from now
2. You should look at DO more than MD

 

[bcurtis]

Take nursing off altogether. If you opt out of DO for whatever reason go PA. ONLY consider nursing if you don't get in there either. Not hating on nurses, but I don't think you'll be happy there. 1) a masters in neuroscience and you may have to wipe ass, 2) PA is roughy (and I mean ROUGHLY) the same time commitment from where you're at now.

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

I'm actually a little confused on how you didn't manage to complete any pre-requisites considering your masters in neuroscience? Coming from someone who also did neuroscience, the program must be way more "soft" focused as most neuroscience programs would require the chemistry, biology, and physics that would meet the pre-requisites. Most I would imagine also require the organic chemistry and biochemistry (especially at the graduate level), but I can imagine a number leaving those out if not necessary.

Regardless, as far as your chance for MD or DO you should know medical schools are very much concerned with your undergraduate GPA and not so much your graduate GPA. Your personal GPA distinctions are going to be irrelevant, and you need to parse out these three GPAs based off of AMCAS or AACOMAS guidelines: science GPA, non-science GPA, and cumulative GPA. It is important to note these differ based on which classes fit in which area for which application service (e.g. AACOMAS does not count math classes in science GPA). Significantly, AACOMAS also allows you to replace grades.

I'm going to do some crude outlining here so this will not be 100% accurate, but I think it will help you gauge your competitiveness based off stats alone: For GPA the average MD matriculate has a 3.6 and the average DO has a 3.4. For the MCAT, the average matriculate has a 31 and for DO the average matriculate has a 27. I would say a standard range for GPA is probably most reasonably +/- 0.2 points (3.4-3.8 for MD, 3.2-3.6 for DO) and +/- 3.0 points from the average for the MCAT (28-34 for MD, 24-30 for DO). It's my opinion that these counterbalance each other, so if you're on the low end of one you need to be on the high end of the other. If you fall within those bounds or exceed them then you'll most likely have a good chance at seeing an interview on stats alone.

With all that said, you're never too far gone. You really just need to make the decision of whether or not you want to commit another nine or more years of education to this. I'm really here to tell you it is the case that most people can get into and complete medical school if they want it, but it takes time and dedication. Two years for pre-requisites, four years of medical school, and at least three years of residency. You may need to take a fellowship after you're done with residency. You will be paid (badly) in residency and fellowship, and you will have the burden of loans before you make your first real pay check in your tenth year out - where you'll be 36 years old.

To answer your question about the master's, the M.S. degree is from The University of Texas at Dallas, they have a B.S. in neuroscience, the M.S. is the graduate version of that program, they also have a Ph.D. in Cognition and Neuroscience, so it's not a "soft" neuroscience that you may be thinking of. 90% of the people attending the program either studied biology, chemistry, engineering, biochemistry or psychology and did pre-med courses during their program. Courses I took consist of cellular neuroscience, systems neuroscience, functional neuroanatomy, neuroscience of pain, neuropharmacology, neurobiology of learning and memory, cognitive psychology, memory, Neuroplasticity, research methods and 2 research internship at UT Southwestern medical center. This master's is ideal for those who wish to pursue medicine, or a Ph.D. in experimental psychology or neuroscience. I also made all A's in the neuroscience courses, it was the two damn cognitive-based classes I got the two B's in 🙁

Thanks for the info, it seem like I would have a decent chance for a DO program if I do really well in the pre-reqs plus MCAT. 🙂

 

[CogNeuroGuy]

Seeing that you have been distanced from undergrad for some time now, I would say do not worry about that GPA. It is low at 3.23 but nothing to do now. If you are interested in doing DO then you need to take the pre-reqs and try to get above a 3.5 sGPA. Also, an mcat of 27+ will be helpful to coutnerbalance the low undergrad gpa. I don't think there is any reason for you to retake undergrad courses now especially if you will be taking all the pre-med reqs. Also, I would not focus too much on MD programs. Sure you can apply to 4-5 lower tier schools but focus on applying broadly to 10-12 DO schools. During the time you take courses, you need to make some time for volunteering and shadowing. You job may get in the way of it but without clinical exposure you will have a tough time being selected for interviews.

1. You are not too old if that is what you are thinking but you will be applying atleast 2 years from now
2. You should look at DO more than MD

Awesome advice. I just applied to some scribe jobs here in Dallas, I have some friends at UT Dallas who are still doing scribe work as they take a gap year to apply for medical school.

Take nursing off altogether. If you opt out of DO for whatever reason go PA. ONLY consider nursing if you don't get in there either. Not hating on nurses, but I don't think you'll be happy there. 1) a masters in neuroscience and you may have to wipe ass, 2) PA is roughy (and I mean ROUGHLY) the same time commitment from where you're at now.

These were my suspicions as well, glad to see others think so too.

 

[bcurtis]

Good luck with everything! I think the advice on this thread is pretty spot on. Just ask yourself, in ten years would you regret not going to medical school?

Keep me posted on your path

Awesome advice. I just applied to some scribe jobs here in Dallas, I have some friends at UT Dallas who are still doing scribe work as they take a gap year to apply for medical school.



These were my suspicions as well, glad to see others think so too.