Solo Practice Failures

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Once you start accepting all patients, does it become more difficult to be selective in the future? Because the referring doctors will expect you to see everyone at that time? Versus if you are more selective, it'll take longer to build up the practice but you could build an ideal practice over time? I'm just starting fellowship this year so very new to thinking about all this

Three attributes of success in Private Practice (in order of importance)

1) Availability --come in early; stay late for patients. Meet patients after hours at the office. See patients at the hospital, care center/SNF, etc. Remember, your competition goes on vacation. You don't.
2) Affability --return phone calls promptly; be liberal with giving out your cell number to doctors, chiros, PT, ED docs, surgeons, surgical PA's, spine surgery residents/fellows, discharge planners, radiologists, acupuncturists, massage therapists, etc; show up at social events, kids'events, birthday party's, bar mitzvahs, weddings, etc. Network, network, network.
3) Ability --get the job done and don't "Gild the Lilly."

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When starting a solo practice, is it reasonable to limit your practice to certain patients such as spine / joint / peripheral pain etc? Given patients with chronic headache / abdo / pelvic pain usually require a multidisciplinary approach and we may not have the necessary personnel to treat these patients effectively (in house psychologist, physiotherapist etc).
Most referring docs don't have the time or patience to sort through the pain docs in town to send only pts for a particular condition.

They will be HIGHLY appreciative of a doc who accommodates and tries to help with EVERYTHING they send and will reward that doc.

In areas of high competition, denying particular consults will make or break your practice.
 
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Excellent points everyone. I should know this better than anyone, being an ER doc. Consultants who see a patient and give advice rather than just punting consults are so much more beloved and are truly excellent clinicians.
 
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Excellent points everyone. I should know this better than anyone, being an ER doc. Consultants who see a patient and give advice rather than just punting consults are so much more beloved and are truly excellent clinicians.
It feels like Pain is becoming more popular with ER physicians lately. Have you noticed this trend among your colleagues?

I’d be curious later to see if there are any tips/tricks the ER physicians can bring to the table for pain management.
 
Most referring docs don't have the time or patience to sort through the pain docs in town to send only pts for a particular condition.

They will be HIGHLY appreciative of a doc who accommodates and tries to help with EVERYTHING they send and will reward that doc.

In areas of high competition, denying particular consults will make or break your practice.
Do you really feel that way? Would you send your pts to a surgeon who had an awful bedside manner because it's more convenient for you? I wouldn't and it would make me look bad.

I do agree at the beginning it is helpful to take everyone and make life as easy as possible for your referrers. Once you're established though, I see it as a different story.
 
It feels like Pain is becoming more popular with ER physicians lately. Have you noticed this trend among your colleagues?

I’d be curious later to see if there are any tips/tricks the ER physicians can bring to the table for pain management.
I'm not in the US so its extremely uncommon, I think I'm the first one to match into pain fellowship of all the ER people I know. My PD thinks I can hopefully bring something new to the program as an ER doc which is why he is giving me the opportunity. I do a lot of nerve blocks, chronic pain management already in the ER, so I won't be starting from scratch. I plan on continuing to do some ER afterwards and hopefully I can learn some skills that I can impart onto my ER colleagues to make their life easier as well.
 
Do you really feel that way? Would you send your pts to a surgeon who had an awful bedside manner because it's more convenient for you? I wouldn't and it would make me look bad.

I do agree at the beginning it is helpful to take everyone and make life as easy as possible for your referrers. Once you're established though, I see it as a different story.
Pain medicine is just kicking off in my country, there is almost no competition to speak of. The majority of RFAs are done by IR currently, and RFA for Knees / Hips and Stims are basically unheard of outside really big academic centers in a few big cities across the country. Hopefully this environment will allow me to establish a practice without needing to suck up to too many referring docs.
 
Pain medicine is just kicking off in my country, there is almost no competition to speak of. The majority of RFAs are done by IR currently, and RFA for Knees / Hips and Stims are basically unheard of outside really big academic centers in a few big cities across the country. Hopefully this environment will allow me to establish a practice without needing to suck up to too many referring docs.
You say in your country but don't let us know which country, lol. Don't keep us in suspense, which country are you practicing in? It'd be really interesting to learn how medicine is practiced in other parts of the world.
 
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You say in your country but don't let us know which country, lol. Don't keep us in suspense, which country are you practicing in? It'd be really interesting to learn how medicine is practiced in other parts of the world.
haha 😂 I'm in Canada! We just got formal fellowship / residency approved in Pain only a few years ago. We have lagged behind the US significantly in this field.
 
haha 😂 I'm in Canada! We just got formal fellowship / residency approved in Pain only a few years ago. We have lagged behind the US significantly in this field.
Oh, sorry, I thought you said it was another country. Are the US and Canada not the same country? Just kidding. I don't know if lagged behind would be the correct term. We don't really do a great job here at managing pain. Keep us posted on how things progress up north. It'd be interesting to hear how the field evolves up there.
 
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Things haven't been so hot for docs here last couple years. The government can decide to cut payment and because they are the only payer, no one can do a thing about it! Cash / private isn't allowed either. Hopefully the next government cares a little bit more about healthcare....
 
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Things haven't been so hot for docs here last couple years. The government can decide to cut payment and because they are the only payer, no one can do a thing about it! Cash / private isn't allowed either. Hopefully the next government cares a little bit more about healthcare....
Government just cutting pay because they can as single payor is why all (sane) US physicians are opposed to that system .

i thought there was a thriving market for private /cash patients in Canada?

that doesn’t exist at all?
 
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Government just cutting pay because they can as single payor is why all (sane) US physicians are opposed to that system .

i thought there was a thriving market for private /cash patients in Canada?

that doesn’t exist at all?
That thriving cash-pay Canadian market is in Washington state.
 
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Things haven't been so hot for docs here last couple years. The government can decide to cut payment and because they are the only payer, no one can do a thing about it! Cash / private isn't allowed either. Hopefully the next government cares a little bit more about healthcare....

Very sorry to hear that your professional and personal liberties are being taken away by an interfering government. By illegalizing/criminalizing the ability to go outside the system, central planners create a "closed shop" and limit competition and choice. Many physicians on this board want to see the same kind of policies implemented down here too.
 
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Very sorry to hear that your professional and personal liberties are being taken away by an interfering government. By illegalizing/criminalizing the ability to go outside the system, central planners create a "closed shop" and limit competition and choice. Many physicians on this board want to see the same kind of policies implemented down here too.
Yep, I expect most of the hard lefties on this forum would vote for medicare for all, not realizing that within a generation, they might be paid like postal workers.
 
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I'm in Michigan and did some of my anesthesia training in Detroit. We had a lot of FMG anesthesia residents there who planned on doing pain and going back to Canada. My understanding then was that the primary care focused single payor system was functional (but annoying to those used to American healthcare), however a secondary market for cash-pay or additional private-insurance was growing, at least in Ontario. At the time there was a lot of bad-blood because the public system was suffering because everyone that could was doing private work. Is this still the case?
 
Government just cutting pay because they can as single payor is why all (sane) US physicians are opposed to that system .

i thought there was a thriving market for private /cash patients in Canada?

that doesn’t exist at all?

I'm in Michigan and did some of my anesthesia training in Detroit. We had a lot of FMG anesthesia residents there who planned on doing pain and going back to Canada. My understanding then was that the primary care focused single payor system was functional (but annoying to those used to American healthcare), however a secondary market for cash-pay or additional private-insurance was growing, at least in Ontario. At the time there was a lot of bad-blood because the public system was suffering because everyone that could was doing private work. Is this still the case?

If a service is on the schedule of benefits for a province, then private pay for that service is not allowed. There are loopholes though because we now have a decent number of private pay MRIs which was not the case 10 years ago. I don't know the specifics too well, but I can't think of a single clinic around me that is private pay for the routine stuff. Plastics / Breast being the obvious exception.

I think there is both good and bad with our current system. We've historically had it pretty good. We don't have to deal with approvals or insurance companies. If I think a patient needs an MRI, they get an MRI ordered. It might take 10 months to get that MRI in our public system but I don't need approval for it. The current provincial government is not very doctor friendly however, rural family doctors have taken a huge pay cut this year while high earning specialities have had minor cuts or can afford the loss and still have the ability to stay in business. We lost a lot of family docs during the pandemic who either simply retired early or moved to a different province. The schedule of benefits is similar across Canada but each province governs their own so there are slight differences at any one time.

I did some anesthesia training in Windsor during my ER residency but didn't get a chance to get involved with chronic pain folks. From my limited understanding however, private pay chronic pain is not a very huge thing yet in Ontario / Canada.
 
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If a service is on the schedule of benefits for a province, then private pay for that service is not allowed. There are loopholes though because we now have a decent number of private pay MRIs which was not the case 10 years ago. I don't know the specifics too well, but I can't think of a single clinic around me that is private pay for the routine stuff. Plastics / Breast being the obvious exception.

I think there is both good and bad with our current system. We've historically had it pretty good. We don't have to deal with approvals or insurance companies. If I think a patient needs an MRI, they get an MRI ordered. It might take 10 months to get that MRI in our public system but I don't need approval for it. The current provincial government is not very doctor friendly however, rural family doctors have taken a huge pay cut this year while high earning specialities have had minor cuts or can afford the loss and still have the ability to stay in business. We lost a lot of family docs during the pandemic who either simply retired early or moved to a different province. The schedule of benefits is similar across Canada but each province governs their own so there are slight differences at any one time.

I did some anesthesia training in Windsor during my ER residency but didn't get a chance to get involved with chronic pain folks. From my limited understanding however, private pay chronic pain is not a very huge thing yet in Ontario / Canada.
Can a doc opt out of the govt system and only accept private and cash patients?
 
Nope! That’s illegal because patients who can afford to pay could get access to care faster than those who stick with the public system.
I tried to use a similar argument at the Lexus dealership, as my neighbor has a nicer car than me. No dice.
 
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Nope! That’s illegal because patients who can afford to pay could get access to care faster than those who stick with the public system.

This is the essence of collectivism and it is shameful that people on this board want to see our specialty turn into this.

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You have to love a politician who is a child of nepotism and worth an estimated ten million with less schooling than you telling you what to do. So progressive..!
 
So are we saying the only reason why you have timely access to a doctor and MRI in the States is that we’re counting on enough people not being able to afford treatment so they’re not part of the equation at all? Or is there a problem with over-utilization in Canada with unnecessary tests ordered because it’s free?
 
So are we saying the only reason why you have timely access to a doctor and MRI in the States is that we’re counting on enough people not being able to afford treatment so they’re not part of the equation at all? Or is there a problem with over-utilization in Canada with unnecessary tests ordered because it’s free?

There is no "free."
 
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So are we saying the only reason why you have timely access to a doctor and MRI in the States is that we’re counting on enough people not being able to afford treatment so they’re not part of the equation at all? Or is there a problem with over-utilization in Canada with unnecessary tests ordered because it’s free?
Since my practice is the only one in our mid-size city that accepts medicaid and we have trouble getting people to physical therapy because no one takes medicaid and only one surgeon in town (employed by hospital) accepts medicaid, I'd say it's us.

If anything, I'd say we're the ones ordering unnecessary tests for medicolegal reasons, not the Canadians because it's "free". Canadians simply are forced to wait because people are triaged and they have no other option, not because it's good care.
 
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In response to OP, I just thought I would contribute my 2 cents.

I am currently in a solo practice situation, but I did not start my own practice. It is still up and running, so not a failure, but I am feeling some sense of burnout, and trying to figure out how I can manage things better (hence my earlier post on how to handle patient phone calls). There were other physicians initially when I joined, but for various reasons, others left, and I inherited the practice with no buy-in which is probably an incredibly rare situation and opportunity. There was a good reason for the no buy-in though, as the practice has it's challenges, spread out over few locations, so high overhead cost to inherit for one practitioner (we have downsized now to 2 main locations). I am not getting rich doing this, because that was never my priority. I could probably make more if I worked for a hospital, although the potential to make more is probably there, if I were to prioritize that. I agree with one of the other posters that running a private practice, especially if solo, would be a 5a-9p job. What makes my situation a little more manageable is that I have a non-physician business partner who handles all of the non clinical aspects of running a practice. If I took over his responsibilities, I could make more for myself (his salary would become mine), but I just don't have the aptitude for it, or the desire to do so, and I would be even more enslaved to my work. So the arrangement works for me. As to why I would not just go work for a hospital...in the end, I do value having some degree of independence from administrative bureaucracy, which allows for some flexibility in my schedule, and allows me more freedom to practice pain in a way that I feel is best for my patients.

The most important thing is to make the patients love you. The most important thing to make this happen is to be kind and caring to them. It really is that simple.

Perhaps the best advice here. I find this to be very true.
 
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Folks should understand that not all hospital jobs are equal - you can have a fair amount of independence without admin hassles in a hospital group too. Might be more challenging to find this set up. (I am biased since I have tons of autonomy and am hospital employed)
 
In response to OP, I just thought I would contribute my 2 cents.

I am currently in a solo practice situation, but I did not start my own practice. It is still up and running, so not a failure, but I am feeling some sense of burnout, and trying to figure out how I can manage things better (hence my earlier post on how to handle patient phone calls). There were other physicians initially when I joined, but for various reasons, others left, and I inherited the practice with no buy-in which is probably an incredibly rare situation and opportunity. There was a good reason for the no buy-in though, as the practice has it's challenges, spread out over few locations, so high overhead cost to inherit for one practitioner (we have downsized now to 2 main locations). I am not getting rich doing this, because that was never my priority. I could probably make more if I worked for a hospital, although the potential to make more is probably there, if I were to prioritize that. I agree with one of the other posters that running a private practice, especially if solo, would be a 5a-9p job. What makes my situation a little more manageable is that I have a non-physician business partner who handles all of the non clinical aspects of running a practice. If I took over his responsibilities, I could make more for myself (his salary would become mine), but I just don't have the aptitude for it, or the desire to do so, and I would be even more enslaved to my work. So the arrangement works for me. As to why I would not just go work for a hospital...in the end, I do value having some degree of independence from administrative bureaucracy, which allows for some flexibility in my schedule, and allows me more freedom to practice pain in a way that I feel is best for my patients.



Perhaps the best advice here. I find this to be very true.

If you were just greedy and doing this for the money, you'd be hospital employed and churning the HOPD in a heartbeat.
 
If you were just greedy and doing this for the money, you'd be hospital employed and churning the HOPD in a heartbeat.
Honestly that's not what I would do. I would set up a private practice, accepting cash only and do stem cells for every ailment. People would fly from all over the world to my emporium because I'm the real guru in stem cells.

In private practice, the sky is the limit with almost no oversight and it's evident in every news story about a "pain doc" who gets arrested for fraud, etc. There are so many avenues to untold wealth.

Hospitals themselves are greedy but, as you have said many times, they subjugate their employees, docs included. Salaries are determined by a roomful of suits and subject to their whims.
 
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I think having a non doctor biz “partner” skimming off the top is a huge negative and takes away ur time and money.

The biz stuff is important but remember there is a dentist on every corner. It’s not rocket science.
 
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I think having a non doctor biz “partner” skimming off the top is a huge negative and takes away ur time and money.

The biz stuff is important but remember there is a dentist on every corner. It’s not rocket science.

But the dentists were smart. They never went in on "managed care" contracts, etc.
 
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But the dentists were smart. They never went in on "managed care" contracts, etc.

Most dentists in general also make far less than physicians. Sure those who own their practices may do fine, but most dentists don't and are associates. and they have one of the highest suicide rates in healthcare system - second apparently to vets. While we complain nonstop pretty much about our salaries, how we get screwed by the system, outrageous costs of medical school, the crap of residency, etc - we end up overall better than our non MD/DO colleagues most of the time. Time that dental school costs close to 500-1,0000 for some people, most make far less, vets spend as much if not more than we do in med school and make 1/3 of what we do, pharmacists are crying over the saturation of jobs, etc. We should probably be more grateful than we are. Most people who get in make it through med school/residecny - sure some exceptions and some don't but overwhelmingly most people do and long term fare far better than our colleagues in other healthcare fields. there is no other profession that almost guarantees the relatively high 6 figure income and security of medicine.
 
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a
Most dentists in general also make far less than physicians. Sure those who own their practices may do fine, but most dentists don't and are associates. and they have one of the highest suicide rates in healthcare system - second apparently to vets. While we complain nonstop pretty much about our salaries, how we get screwed by the system, outrageous costs of medical school, the crap of residency, etc - we end up overall better than our non MD/DO colleagues most of the time. Time that dental school costs close to 500-1,0000 for some people, most make far less, vets spend as much if not more than we do in med school and make 1/3 of what we do, pharmacists are crying over the saturation of jobs, etc. We should probably be more grateful than we are. Most people who get in make it through med school/residecny - sure some exceptions and some don't but overwhelmingly most people do and long term fare far better than our colleagues in other healthcare fields. there is no other profession that almost guarantees the relatively high 6 figure income and security of medicine.
I"m not trying to pick a fight with you, but I know many many dentists making 200K a year, and this is after they only had to do 7-8 years of school compared to our 13.

They may not make specialist MD money, but they outearn PCPs in most markets, dentists have no call, and they started making this kind of money at age 26, not in their thirties like we all did.

I'm not shedding any tears for the plight of dentists other than it does cause a lot of neck problems, and the job is monotonous.
 
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I"m not trying to pick a fight with you, but I know many many dentists making 200K a year, and this is after they only had to do 7-8 years of school compared to our 13.

They may not make specialist MD money, but they outearn PCPs in most markets, dentists have no call, and they started making this kind of money at age 26, not in their thirties like we all did.

I'm not shedding any tears for the plight of dentists other than it does cause a lot of neck problems, and the job is monotonous.

Buddy of mine is an endodontist. He’s got a brand new 911 turbo S and an E63 AMG. Turned in an Audi R8 V10 to get the 911.
 
Buddy of mine is an endodontist. He’s got a brand new 911 turbo S and an E63 AMG. Turned in an Audi R8 V10 to get the 911.
Exactly. And specialty dentists like endodontists and orthodontists make mid six figures and are very comfortable.
And that extra 2 years of training still only adds up to 10 years vs our 13.
 
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I"m not trying to pick a fight with you, but I know many many dentists making 200K a year, and this is after they only had to do 7-8 years of school compared to our 13.

They may not make specialist MD money, but they outearn PCPs in most markets, dentists have no call, and they started making this kind of money at age 26, not in their thirties like we all did.

I'm not shedding any tears for the plight of dentists other than it does cause a lot of neck problems, and the job is monotonous.

And they commit suicide at horrendous rates. No thanks.
 
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