some OChem Questions- help plz

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JustwantDDS

DrAMG
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Does anyone do the KBB end of chapter questions?

I have 2 questions from there

first one in CH3 of O CHEM in KBB

#8) Pi bonds are formed by which of the following orbitals?
2 s
2 p
1 s 1 p
all

answer is 2p but then in the explanation it says that sigma bonds can be 2 s, 2p, or 1s and 1 p overlaps. how can that be if 2p overlaps= Pi bond?

next one Ch4 KBB ochem, #7
R3C-X ------> R3C+------> R3C-Y

fill in for the arrows (-X, and + Y-)
so this is obviously sn1 and the answer is X: tosylate good LG Y: CN- good nuc

i always thought that good nuc's esp CN- is for SN2, and SN1 can handle weak nuc's?
 
Yea same!
Also- another question
OChem subjest test 1 for Kaplan

Which of the following is the most stable carbanion?

X3C-
X2HC-
XH2C-
H3C-
(CH3)3C-

X- phenyl group

I said H3C- b/c its primary....

I thought for carbanions its 1>2>3 for stability....opposite of carbocations

but the answer is X3C- [x= phenyl group]
 
Yea same!
Also- another question
OChem subjest test 1 for Kaplan

Which of the following is the most stable carbanion?

X3C-
X2HC-
XH2C-
H3C-
(CH3)3C-

X- phenyl group

I said H3C- b/c its primary....

I thought for carbanions its 1>2>3 for stability....opposite of carbocations

but the answer is X3C- [x= phenyl group]

That's because if you have phenyl group then you will have RESONANCE STRUCTURE.. And resonance ALWAYS increases stability making the carbanion more stable.
 
Resonance might be the case, but the way i see it is when something is negative you dont wana push more electrons to it. the phenyl groups are e- rich and exactly do that. Kaplan is wrong man. i know my stuff.
 
Resonance might be the case, but the way i see it is when something is negative you dont wana push more electrons to it. the phenyl groups are e- rich and exactly do that. Kaplan is wrong man. i know my stuff.

so is kaplan wrong or not? Can someone give some insight?

I would have also put primary instead of phenyl
 
Hey, let me see if I can help clarify some concepts. (You are right to question Kaplan Orgo, btw! There are many mistakes in the orgo section.)

#8) Pi bonds are formed by which of the following orbitals?
2 s
2 p
1 s 1 p
all

answer is 2p but then in the explanation it says that sigma bonds can be 2 s, 2p, or 1s and 1 p overlaps. how can that be if 2p overlaps= Pi bond?

Pi bonds are formed when two p orbitals are parallel to each other (we define 'overlapping' in this way). When p orbitals are parallel, the electrons can be distributed across them to form a pi orbital. The bonds that make up the connectivity of the overall molecule are sigma bonds. These bonds are usually formed when orbitals hybridize.

When you read that sigma bonds can be made up of s and p orbitals, this is referring to hybrid orbitals. You musn't literally think of an overlapping s and 2 p orbitals in an sp2 hybridized orbital. An sp2 hybridized orbital is a rearrangement of an s and 2 p orbitals to create a *new* sp2 orbital. For example, take benzene. Each C is sp2 hybridized in order to form 3 bonds (to C, C, H). This means each C has a leftover p orbital, and since benzene is planar, all these p orbitals are parallel to each other, allowing for free flow of electrons between them (creating the pi bonds).

Ch4 KBB ochem, #7
R3C-X ------> R3C+------> R3C-Y

fill in for the arrows (-X, and + Y-)
so this is obviously sn1 and the answer is X: tosylate good LG Y: CN- good nuc

i always thought that good nuc's esp CN- is for SN2, and SN1 can handle weak nuc's?

Good nuc's definitely favor SN2, but remember that STERICS dictate whether an SN2 will actually happen. If the LG is tertiary, such as X in the example above, these are poor reaction conditions for SN2. However, a good, tertiary LG is excellent for SN1 because the carbocation intermediate will be better stabilized. If the reagents for the above rxn were HCN/NaCN, you better believe that once a carbocation is formed, the excellent CN- nucleophile will attack it! Nucleophiles don't discriminate between good electrophiles 🙂

If SN2 and SN1 reactions are equally favored, SN2s always prevail. The reason you probably learned SN1 reactions can only 'handle' weak nuc's was to emphasize that with proper sterics (primary LG), a strong nuc will favor an SN2. It's helpful to remember that SN2/E2 usually occur in basic conditions, and SN1/E1 in acidic or neutral.


Which of the following is the most stable carbanion?

X3C-
X2HC-
XH2C-
H3C-
(CH3)3C-

X- phenyl group

I said H3C- b/c its primary....

I thought for carbanions its 1>2>3 for stability....opposite of carbocations

but the answer is X3C- [x= phenyl group]

Carbanions follow the same stability as carbocations: 3>2>>1>>>Me. Think of radical mechanisms, and how the radical always wants to be on the most substituted atom. With three phenyl groups to shift around the negative charge, the carbanion is way more stable than a carbanion where the negative charge is localized to one atom.

Resonance might be the case, but the way i see it is when something is negative you dont wana push more electrons to it. the phenyl groups are e- rich and exactly do that. Kaplan is wrong man. i know my stuff.

With resonance, you are not stuffing more electrons onto the negative charge; you are shifting the electrons around to delocalize the negative charge. Draw out X3C and arrow the electrons on the central C moving to create a pi bond with one of the phenyls. When you do this, the pi bonds in that phenyl now shift until one of the C's in the phenyl house the extra electrons, and therefore the negative charge. You might be confusing activating/deactivating groups in electrophilic substitution rxns, where we typically treat phenyl substituents as an electron donating group (though it is deactivating).

Hope this helps! Understanding hybridization, SN2/SN1, and resonance are very important topics to understand for the DAT 🙂
 
Hey, let me see if I can help clarify some concepts. (You are right to question Kaplan Orgo, btw! There are many mistakes in the orgo section.)



Pi bonds are formed when two p orbitals are parallel to each other (we define 'overlapping' in this way). When p orbitals are parallel, the electrons can be distributed across them to form a pi orbital. The bonds that make up the connectivity of the overall molecule are sigma bonds. These bonds are usually formed when orbitals hybridize.

When you read that sigma bonds can be made up of s and p orbitals, this is referring to hybrid orbitals. You musn't literally think of an overlapping s and 2 p orbitals in an sp2 hybridized orbital. An sp2 hybridized orbital is a rearrangement of an s and 2 p orbitals to create a *new* sp2 orbital. For example, take benzene. Each C is sp2 hybridized in order to form 3 bonds (to C, C, H). This means each C has a leftover p orbital, and since benzene is planar, all these p orbitals are parallel to each other, allowing for free flow of electrons between them (creating the pi bonds).



Good nuc's definitely favor SN2, but remember that STERICS dictate whether an SN2 will actually happen. If the LG is tertiary, such as X in the example above, these are poor reaction conditions for SN2. However, a good, tertiary LG is excellent for SN1 because the carbocation intermediate will be better stabilized. If the reagents for the above rxn were HCN/NaCN, you better believe that once a carbocation is formed, the excellent CN- nucleophile will attack it! Nucleophiles don't discriminate between good electrophiles 🙂

If SN2 and SN1 reactions are equally favored, SN2s always prevail. The reason you probably learned SN1 reactions can only 'handle' weak nuc's was to emphasize that with proper sterics (primary LG), a strong nuc will favor an SN2. It's helpful to remember that SN2/E2 usually occur in basic conditions, and SN1/E1 in acidic or neutral.




Carbanions follow the same stability as carbocations: 3>2>>1>>>Me. Think of radical mechanisms, and how the radical always wants to be on the most substituted atom. With three phenyl groups to shift around the negative charge, the carbanion is way more stable than a carbanion where the negative charge is localized to one atom.



With resonance, you are not stuffing more electrons onto the negative charge; you are shifting the electrons around to delocalize the negative charge. Draw out X3C and arrow the electrons on the central C moving to create a pi bond with one of the phenyls. When you do this, the pi bonds in that phenyl now shift until one of the C's in the phenyl house the extra electrons, and therefore the negative charge. You might be confusing activating/deactivating groups in electrophilic substitution rxns, where we typically treat phenyl substituents as an electron donating group (though it is deactivating).

Hope this helps! Understanding hybridization, SN2/SN1, and resonance are very important topics to understand for the DAT 🙂

sorry to be kinda frank but im still confused. Is kaplan wrong or not? In that problem , whats the correct answeR?
 
No, they don't. Try to draw out the carbanion attached to 3 phenyl groups and push the negative charge around to the phenyls 😉

What does follow that pattern is strength of an SN2 reaction! (tertiary LG's are the worst)
 
This is taken from wiki

A carbanion is a nucleophile. The stability and reactivity of a carbanion is determined by several factors. These include

  1. The inductive effect. Electronegative atoms adjacent to the charge will stabilize the charge;
  2. Hybridization of the charge-bearing atom. The greater the s-character of the charge-bearing atom, the more stable the anion;
  3. The extent of conjugation of the anion. Resonance effects can stabilize the anion. This is especially true when the anion is stabilized as a result of aromaticity.
 
I don't think there is one trend for stability of carbanions that you can follow every time.
However there is ARIO that you can use generally without failing.

Atom
Resonance
Inductive effect
Orbital

Atom - See which atom is bearing the negative charge. More electronegative atoms are "better" at stabilizing the negative charge.

Ex. Stability goes F->O->N->C-

Resonance - See if you can draw any resonance structures. Remember that if you can draw major contributing resonance structures, it means that electrons are delocalized and shared among multiple atoms. Thus better stabilizing the negative charge.

Inductive effect - Atoms that are very electronegative, i.e. Fluorine atoms can withdraw negative charge from conjugate carbanions. You can think of it as pulling the negative charge away from the negatively charged atom, which better stabilizes the atom.

Orbital - sp > sp2 > sp3 in terms of stability. The reason is sp orbitals are smaller. Which means that electrons are closer to the nucleus therefore more easily stabilized the proton.

The primary /secondary / tertiary rule doesn't really work.
If you have tertiary carbanion that forms resonance structure, it can be very stable as the alkene can be very substituted.
 
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