Some of you guys need to re-evaluate yourselves

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sleepless22 said:
when reading some of the threads such as the one about the guy who cheated or the thread about doctors smoking marijuana, i read some of the stuff and i am like "WHAT?!" As a doctor, you will be faced with many patients from very diverse backgrounds. What happens when one of your patients smokes pot? Are you going to jump down his back and yell at him? What if someone accidentally forgets payment, are you going to refuse treatment? People make their own decisions, as a doctor, you need to remove your subjective value judgements from consideration and allow people to lead their own lives the way they want to. And, please walk with a sense of humanism rather than jumping down people's throats. If you don't agree with something, say so, but dont be an dingus about it because I guarantee, as much as you want to believe it, your not perfect. You guys all want to be doctors for crying out loud, treat people with respect. Of course, this does not pertain to all, but you know who you are.
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Hell Yea
 
My take is this
People make mistakes. People do bad things. Some get caught, some never do. Some that never get caught will still act holier than thou when someone else does. Some people may never do anything bad (or that would be considered OMG by people)
When people do mess up, they should get in trouble or embarassed, etc so they learn from their mistake. Some people learn, some never do. Then people should let it go. Certain things should not be held against someone for the rest of their lives. People can make mistakes, and I am all for second chances. Why should something be held against someone forever? That doesn't make sense. People should be punished though within reason, and if they are in fact sorry they will find their way again.
 
Panda Bear said:
I think the problem with society is that we aren't judgemental enough. I propose we start telling people what we really think.

And let's all start working for conformity, not "diversity."

I'm ready to burn this mother down. Who's with me?
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I am solidly behind you with enough gasoline
 
UTpremed said:
You get people that come on here and make all sorts of weird comments that need further clarification or only represent one small fraction of reality. Your statement about people not being able to use cocaine only once or twice a year, IMO, qualified as one of those statements. Of course people could use cocaine only once or twice a year and be fine. That absolutely does not make it OK.
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Um. I said most people. There are exceptions to all of God's rules, but I think (purely uncorroborated opinion) that the proportion of people unable to maintain a semiannual cocaine habit make up more than 'one small fraction of reality.' Cocaine, it turns out, is biochemically addictive.

I was just kidding about you not liking me. I think we'd be great friends in real life. I best like people who don't agree with me.

Panda Bear said:
I think the problem with society is that we aren't judgemental enough. I propose we start telling people what we really think.

And let's all start working for conformity, not "diversity."

I'm ready to burn this mother down. Who's with me?
Click to expand...


I'm with you. Let the [expletive deleted] burn.
 
TheProwler said:
Word. There are a lot of people in med school with drug problems as well, but it's just kept on the down low.
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True dat Prowler, I know a few of those people in med school with drug problems. Aside from the potheads and cokeheads that I know of in med school, I also believe that taking your brother's ritalin everytime you have exams also consists as a drug problem... :laugh:
 
sleepless22 said:
when reading some of the threads such as the one about the guy who cheated or the thread about doctors smoking marijuana, i read some of the stuff and i am like "WHAT?!" As a doctor, you will be faced with many patients from very diverse backgrounds. What happens when one of your patients smokes pot? Are you going to jump down his back and yell at him? What if someone accidentally forgets payment, are you going to refuse treatment? People make their own decisions, as a doctor, you need to remove your subjective value judgements from consideration and allow people to lead their own lives the way they want to. And, please walk with a sense of humanism rather than jumping down people's throats. If you don't agree with something, say so, but dont be an dingus about it because I guarantee, as much as you want to believe it, your not perfect. You guys all want to be doctors for crying out loud, treat people with respect. Of course, this does not pertain to all, but you know who you are.
Click to expand...

Let's not forget we are not talking to patients here but potential doctors. Much of what people disagree with on here (for example cheating), are character flaws. I think we do hold our doctors to a higher standard than say, a deadbeat pot smoking patient. Rightly so. Yes people are human and we all have flaws, I just want the person with whom I entrust my life to have as few of them as possible.
 
So smoking pot is a character flaw? Interesting...

What about drinking on occasion, or sex, or anything enjoyable in moderation with minimal risk?
 
If you read what I wrote I spoke of character flaws with regard to cheating. I only used the pot smoking reference because the OP used it. Personally I do not think occasional drinking, etc is bad. I would not even call pot smoking a character flaw (though my husband probably would...he is a police officer), but I do find school difficult enough without messing with my short-term memory. I rely on cramming way too much.
 
for the Picard picture. That pretty much made my day, at least in terms of the laughter quota.
 
That takes a close 2nd.

Honestly, from the debates that go on here, it is pretty easy to see why they don't let in half of the people who apply to med school each year.
 
Darksmurf said:
Tobacco is legalized and regulated and those kids still need their asses kicked.
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People don't smoke a pack a day of marijuana. People smoke a joint or two a week (unless they're chronic marijuana smokers, which is a different form of problem.)


Darksmurf said:
I doubt that most people can use cocaine once or twice a year for very long.
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Darksmurf said:
My bottom line is: in my experience people don't usually just pick up hard drugs as a recreation and that such drugs take over people's lives after not too long (thus, people don't use them once or twice a year for very long).
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You can doubt it all you like, but when it's once or twice a year, you hardly have a chance to grow addicted. I know FAR too many people who do cocaine rarely, but consistently. For years, now. Occasional use is far more common than addiction. Two kids from your high school is hardly a sample.
 
dopaminesurge said:
You can doubt it all you like, but when it's once or twice a year, you hardly have a chance to grow addicted. I know FAR too many people who do cocaine rarely, but consistently. For years, now. Occasional use is far more common than addiction. Two kids from your high school is hardly a sample.
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If you say so, I yield to empirical evidence.

How much do you need to become addicted, by the way?
 
Still can't find your avatar anywhere on the net smurf
 
melissainsd said:
Let's not forget we are not talking to patients here but potential doctors. Much of what people disagree with on here (for example cheating), are character flaws. I think we do hold our doctors to a higher standard than say, a deadbeat pot smoking patient. Rightly so. Yes people are human and we all have flaws, I just want the person with whom I entrust my life to have as few of them as possible.
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What kind of cheating are we talking here? Adultry (sp?) or cheating on an exam type cheating? Just curious.
 
Darksmurf said:
If you say so, I yield to empirical evidence.

How much do you need to become addicted, by the way?
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It definitely varies between people. Good question, though. No idea.
 
What she said. I don't think that there is an exact amount of cocaine that you do and then you're addicted. It varies from person to person. Some people do one line and then they're hooked.
 
MirrorTodd said:
What she said. I don't think that there is an exact amount of cocaine that you do and then you're addicted. It varies from person to person. Some people do one line and then they're hooked.
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There's a lot of genetics involved. Some people have addictive personalities and are VERY prone to addiction -- a tiny amount will do it. Others would have to work at it a bit more, although everyone has a break point. Since you cannot know which kind of person you are, best not to do any casual use field testing. Besides, it can land you in jail and/or make medical licensing an impossibility, and certainly has other health risks (especially heart related) so not a smart risk. I've known people who ruined their careers and lost their families because of what started as casual, once in a blue moon use.
 
MirrorTodd said:
What she said. I don't think that there is an exact amount of cocaine that you do and then you're addicted. It varies from person to person. Some people do one line and then they're hooked.
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That would have to be a huge line for someone to get hooked off of one hit...but definitely you're right there is variation.

Cocaine takes a long time to become physically addicted, and you can really tell what the knowledge level is on this forum when they lump coke in with heroin and meth in terms of addictiveness.
 
Pinkertinkle said:
picard.jpg
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Law2Doc said:
There's a lot of genetics involved. Some people have addictive personalities and are VERY prone to addiction -- a tiny amount will do it. Others would have to work at it a bit more, although everyone has a break point. Since you cannot know which kind of person you are, best not to do any casual use field testing. Besides, it can land you in jail and/or make medical licensing an impossibility, and certainly has other health risks (especially heart related) so not a smart risk. I've known people who ruined their careers and lost their families because of what started as casual, once in a blue moon use.
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Well, you could field test your addiction type using less dangerous methods. One could try cigarettes first or start gambling. And then once you find out you won't get addicted very easily, you can start with the hardcore drugs.
 
stixx said:
That would have to be a huge line for someone to get hooked off of one hit...but definitely you're right there is variation.

Cocaine takes a long time to become physically addicted, and you can really tell what the knowledge level is on this forum when they lump coke in with heroin and meth in terms of addictiveness.
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Thats what happens when kids are taught about drugs in middle school. the 'good' kids that heed the advice in the future are taught to heed it in a way that makes them ridicule the 'bad' kids. its the nature of the enforcement. they dont see that there is a range of bad drugs. all they see is BAD BAD BAD.
 
MirrorTodd said:
Well, you could field test your addiction type using less dangerous methods. One could try cigarettes first or start gambling. And then once you find out you won't get addicted very easily, you can start with the hardcore drugs.
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Not really foolproof. There are people who are more chemically prone to addiction by the hardcore drugs than other things. So many people would pass your smoking and gambling tests but still fall into the abyss with hard drugs.
 
😀
Stolenspatulas said:
Thats what happens when kids are taught about drugs in middle school. the 'good' kids that heed the advice in the future are taught to heed it in a way that makes them ridicule the 'bad' kids. its the nature of the enforcement. they dont see that there is a range of bad drugs. all they see is BAD BAD BAD.
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:laugh: that's the exact picture that comes to mind reading this thread.

I was the product of that kind of education but I was always too curious. I browse erowid.org when I'm bored 😀 But not a druggie
 
braluk said:
does anyone else here start to realize that they're typing more carefully now so as to not be scrutinized by the walking dictionaries here 😉
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YES! I used to spell check with dictionaries. The built in firefox spell check has saved my life.
 
Stolenspatulas said:
Thats what happens when kids are taught about drugs in middle school. the 'good' kids that heed the advice in the future are taught to heed it in a way that makes them ridicule the 'bad' kids. its the nature of the enforcement. they dont see that there is a range of bad drugs. all they see is BAD BAD BAD.
Click to expand...

exactly...its funny how scientific literature is so important to us premed science geeks until it comes to drugs where the moralistic temperance viewpoint instilled by DARE and mainstream society overcomes any evidence-based discussion.

in short, any talk about drug use on SDN is mental masturbation. inevitably, njbmb and law2doc always take the same damn positions which frankly seem very naive about the reality of drug use in this country.
 
Darksmurf said:
Tobacco is legalized and regulated and those kids still need their asses kicked.



I doubt that most people can use cocaine once or twice a year for very long.
Click to expand...

Then what the hell is that smoke in your avatar?
 
quantummechanic said:
exactly...its funny how scientific literature is so important to us premed science geeks until it comes to drugs where the moralistic temperance viewpoint instilled by DARE and mainstream society overcomes any evidence-based discussion.

in short, any talk about drug use on SDN is mental masturbation. inevitably, njbmb and law2doc always take the same damn positions which frankly seem very naive about the reality of drug use in this country.
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This thread is like a road in the south.

http://www.lycaeum.org/
 
wait...why am i being PMed again? i'm not in this debate. y'all, the OP, and jean-luc picard started it. don't pull me into this. hahaha.


also on a semi-related note, most people won't learn until it happens to them. i just leave people alone when they decide to adopt the "holier than thou" attitude towards me. good for them.
 
sleepless22 said:
when reading some of the threads such as the one about the guy who cheated or the thread about doctors smoking marijuana, i read some of the stuff and i am like "WHAT?!" As a doctor, you will be faced with many patients from very diverse backgrounds. What happens when one of your patients smokes pot? Are you going to jump down his back and yell at him? What if someone accidentally forgets payment, are you going to refuse treatment? People make their own decisions, as a doctor, you need to remove your subjective value judgements from consideration and allow people to lead their own lives the way they want to. And, please walk with a sense of humanism rather than jumping down people's throats. If you don't agree with something, say so, but dont be an dingus about it because I guarantee, as much as you want to believe it, your not perfect. You guys all want to be doctors for crying out loud, treat people with respect. Of course, this does not pertain to all, but you know who you are.
Click to expand...


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
FenderHM said:
"judgement" is actually spelled judgment as long as we're being judgmental
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Rotflmao...this has to be like...an internet classic, when someone is correcting another person on spelling but they can't spell that well themselves.
 
FenderHM said:
"judgement" is actually spelled judgment as long as we're being judgmental
Click to expand...

Rotflmao...this has to be like...an internet classic, when someone is correcting another person on spelling but they can't spell that well themselves.

Edit: Even if it's correctly spelled in England, I wouldn't suggest typing Orthopaedics or Paediatrics, lol. (on a side note this drove me nuts when I was typing stuff up in England...I would keep typing things the American way then have to go and fix it)
 
So.... are we still burning this mother down?
 
sleepless22 said:
when reading some of the threads such as the one about the guy who cheated or the thread about doctors smoking marijuana, i read some of the stuff and i am like "WHAT?!" As a doctor, you will be faced with many patients from very diverse backgrounds. What happens when one of your patients smokes pot? Are you going to jump down his back and yell at him? What if someone accidentally forgets payment, are you going to refuse treatment? People make their own decisions, as a doctor, you need to remove your subjective value judgements from consideration and allow people to lead their own lives the way they want to. And, please walk with a sense of humanism rather than jumping down people's throats. If you don't agree with something, say so, but dont be an dingus about it because I guarantee, as much as you want to believe it, your not perfect. You guys all want to be doctors for crying out loud, treat people with respect. Of course, this does not pertain to all, but you know who you are.
Click to expand...

If (when) I have a patient on drugs, I will treat them, give them advice on a healthy lifestyle, and wish them well. Heck, I don't even have a problem with drug use from a moral standpoint, it's your own business. However, if a colleague shows up for work stoned and trys to treat patients, you better believe I care about that. It's irresponsible and dangerous, and as a PROFESSION we have a DUTY to regulate ourselves and draw lines regarding our members behavior. The very definition of a profession is a self-regulating body of individuals sharing an occupation. We are obligated, maybe not to judge, but to be attentive to our colleagues behavior and ensure that it is acceptable. Your analogy doesn't hold up. As far as cheating goes, again, if I have a patient who's cheating, bully for them. Treat their illness and send them on their way. If I have a medical school classmate cheating, I definitely care, and you should too. Do you want someone who cheated his way through his cardio block treating your mom's MI? I didn't think so.
 
see this is where it helps to come from a large state school. Every single student has either tried or seen everything. I have a roommate whos now a very successful accountant (over 500,000) a year and he used to smoke, drink, and anything else right along with me. Although we both have completely grown out of that phase I think it helps to have an understanding of what these things do and peoples habiys outside of what you learn from a textbook. You can spend a lot of time explaining the dangers of marijuana (grossly overemphasized) but you also have to be understanding that its just something that some people are going to do. For a huge percentage of people it will not hurt them in the least way. However, I think it is also the job of the physician to be able to realize when a patient has an addiction problem and then try to intervene as best as possible. (through drugs or therapy or whatever)

The same thing goes with sex and other bad habits. This is just going to happen, I know im sure as hell not going to stop just because I know all of the dangers. The best you can do is educate them, give protection and hope they listen and use it. However, there is absolutely no reason why a physician should be jumping on a persons case for these activities. They're just natural! A 50 year old man eating a cheeseburger probably has the same amount of negative consequences as a teenagers having sex or smoking pot but most physicians wouldnt yell at him. they conveniently have a little pill to help with that.

The one exception to my tolerance rule is if I ever have to pull something out of a persons butt. I'll have no choice but to laugh and ask what the hell he/she was thinking!!!! it just would have to be done, i couldnt help it.

And if any patient truly can't pay I really think it is part of a doctors job that the patient gets treated to their best of their ability. You cant expect a dr to pick up the tab for an MRI but he could definately do an exam for free. We're in medicine to help people, not just rich people.
 
Darksmurf said:
Two people, actually. Both from high school. My high school had a minor drug problem. Neither of them are doing so well, but it's admittedly probably more than just the cocaine.
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I know a couple MD/PhD students at a top medical school that do lines. One of them was able to bust out his PhD in 3 years, the other is top of his class in medical school. This pre-med elitism makes me sick. Judge less, snort more. J/M
 
Panda Bear said:
I think the problem with society is that we aren't judgemental enough. I propose we start telling people what we really think.

And let's all start working for conformity, not "diversity."

I'm ready to burn this mother down. Who's with me?
Click to expand...

Burn, baby, buuuuuuurrrrrrrrnnnnn!!!!! :laugh:
 
pguin said:
see this is where it helps to come from a large state school. Every single student has either tried or seen everything. I have a roommate whos now a very successful accountant (over 500,000) a year and he used to smoke, drink, and anything else right along with me. Although we both have completely grown out of that phase I think it helps to have an understanding of what these things do and peoples habiys outside of what you learn from a textbook. You can spend a lot of time explaining the dangers of marijuana (grossly overemphasized) but you also have to be understanding that its just something that some people are going to do. For a huge percentage of people it will not hurt them in the least way. However, I think it is also the job of the physician to be able to realize when a patient has an addiction problem and then try to intervene as best as possible. (through drugs or therapy or whatever)
Click to expand...

This probably sounds condescending to others, but he makes a good point. I wonder how many of the people here talking about the grave dangers of marijuana and the inability of people to snort a line and function responsibly are from tiny Christian or liberal arts colleges. Just curious.
 
dopaminesurge said:
This probably sounds condescending to others, but he makes a good point. I wonder how many of the people here talking about the grave dangers of marijuana and the inability of people to snort a line and function responsibly are from tiny Christian or liberal arts colleges. Just curious.
Click to expand...
hehe, I know a PI and an MSTP student who used to smoke plenty of weed.
 
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