Some things I lack/couple of questions

[Aura5]

Any advice would be appreciated.

Hi - fairly newish to the board. I graduated with a BA in English and Comm, but want a doctorate in psychology. I'm leaning toward a PsyD in clinical psych.

Obviously I'm lacking. I do have about 15 credits of psych, but probably need a statistics class. I don't know if my "Comm Research" class counts. I've considered getting a Master's first, to sort of "catch up", but am not sure, considering the extra money that would have to be spent in doing so, plus time. Recently I've begun to get some volunteering experience - so that part shouldn't be a problem. My GPA is 3.94 (4.0 for all the psych courses), and I haven't yet done the GREs.

ANYway - my main problems/questions:

1) Letters of recomendation. I have none, which is bad. I could probably get one or two of my PhD-holding English professors to give me a good one - but that might not fly for trying to get into a psych program. The only more engaging psych class I was in, with a teacher I've spoken to outside of class too - was taught by a TA, not faculty with a PhD. She was saying she would write me a letter if I wanted, but it might not fly as well, since she's just a grad student herself lol. So - I'm kind of at a loss of what to do. If I do get more volunteer experience, and can get a supervisor or two there to write me one - is that good enough? Or not?

2) Research experience - I also have none. Do you think I have any chances of being able to assist/volunteer at a college or research center, without being a student? My guess is it would be difficult to find such an opportunity...but it would be nice if I did.

Thanks!

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[WaitingKills]

Hey Aura,

My gut tells me that if you want a shot at getting into a doctoral program in clinical psych (psyd or ph.d) you will need to go back to school for a couple semesters.

For most psych majors, we are required to have at least 30 undergrad credits in psych which grad schools will be looking for for the most part. If you were lacking 3 or 6 credits it may not be such a big deal, but I think missing 15 will definitely hurt you. I think if you were able to go back and get 15 to 20 credits it won't matter what your official degree is in (as long as you have ALL the foundation course like history of psych, stats, development, bio etc.).

Not only will this be of benefit when you are applying, it'll also give you the opportunity to get referees. Let the prof's know at the very beginning of your semester what you are planning to do and that you will be asking for a reference at the end. They will keep an eye on you then and you will stand out in the class. In the mean while, drop by their office during consultation times to chat about the course or what ever so they also get a sense of who you are, not just about your grades and attendance.

Additionally, if you go back for a couple semesters, you will most likely have an opportunity to get some research work. You will have to be persistent (in most cases) and get on it early to find a spot, but they are out there. Even if it is just coding or a grunt job, take what ever you can get that's classified as a RA position.

I know it's dreadful to think about having to go back, but I think that it's in your best interest all the way around to get a couple more semesters in.

 

[michalita]

Aura5 - If I were you, I'd check out the websites of some of the master of psych degree programs to see what their psych course requirements are. I don't believe they require an entire undergrad psych degree -- some say 3-6 classes, others don't necessarily require any (BU's general psych program, for instance). This would be a good way for you to go back and get more psych experience and to prepare you to apply to doctoral programs. Many, but not all, PsyD programs require a masters in a related field, so this would be taking care of two things at once.

If you're concerned about cost, you could do a masters program (1-2 years) and then see if you can get funding for PhD or university-based PsyD versus having to pay for a PsyD (4-5 years > $$$).

For further reading: BU's one-year master of psychology (http://www.bu.edu/psych/masters/masters.html).

 

[KillerDiller]

If you do decide to get a Masters first, there are funded programs that pay you a stipend while you attend school and also waive your tuition. Check into William and Mary, Villanova, Wake Forest, and Ball State. You can also, as suggested earlier, take some non-degree classes at a local university. I'm not sure which option would be more cost efficient considering you could probably work part or full time while doing the latter.

Another advantage of a Masters degree, though, is that it will get you some research experience, which I really think is essential for doctor's level work in psychology. You can likely volunteer in a lab as a non-student too, but either way you will really need that experience.

You're right, a letter of rec from and English professor and a TA probably wouldn't do you much good going straight for a Ph.D or a Psy.D now, but it would be fine for a Masters program. You could also get letters from the profs of non-degree classes and from the supervisor of any lab you volunteer in.

Basically, either taking extra classes and volunteering in a lab or getting a Masters degree is going to put you on the right track, you just need to decide which fits your specific situation better.

 

[ny1020]

I graduated with a somewhat psych-related degree (7 psych courses) and decided a few years after college to pursue clinical phd. taking evening classes after work was the best decision i made in regards to my experience and applications. while i was fulfilling a few pre-reqs (abnormal, developmental...) i met a professor who had research and clinical internship opportunities. she has become my sounding board during this process.

i think if you're lacking research experience and referees, then the best place to go is to a school setting, where it's more likely for you to find everything you're lacking in one place. for me, the best route was working full time while doing this stuff part-time, but the masters may be a great route for you.

 

[PizzaButt]

I was in a similar situation to you, and so here's what I did. I'm a 30-year old married woman who has a law degree and has been out of school for almost 10 years. I decided to change careers this spring, and I was not a psych major. I took one psych course back freshman year in college--a long time ago!

So what I did was take my pre-reqs at community college, b/c it was inexpensive. They had everything (nearly) that I needed to take. At the same time as I was doing this, I decided to volunteer on a psych research study. I had no psych experience, and I was not a psych major, nor was I affiliated with any university, so I just cold-contacted PIs of labs all over the city where I lived. I was hoping to get a paid job--but I realized quickly that because I had zero experience this was not going to happen. So I decided to volunteer, b/c that was the only way I could get experience. However, I decided that if I was going to volunteer, I wanted to get the best experience possible, which I feel that I did.

I ended up asking my PI for a LOR, as well as my CC profs that I took the psych classes with. Since I'd been out of school for so long, I figured that asking profs I had 10 years ago probably wouldn't be good, as they probably didn't remember me.

Anyhow, I'm not sure if any of this is going to help me get in anywhere, but this is the best I could do with the resources I had available to me. I am applying now for fall '08. At this point, though, if I do not get in, I cannot afford to keep volunteering. I need to get a paid job. So if I do not get in I will need to somehow find a paid job that relates to psych, which will probably be very difficult.

 

[wdd]

I'm in an almost identical situation, and looked into the MA option, too. Competitive MAs are going to want you to have at least a stats class and a lab class (even a bio lab) under your belt. I know that's the case at Villanova, where I met with the dept. head.

I have an English degree (1999) with 18 credits (6 classes, a minor) in psych. But I can get a LOR from one of my psych profs--can you ask one of them to put one together?

So here's what I'm doing: I've decided to take non-degree courses at Northwestern, to get stats, research methods, and some other classes added to my minor, enough to equate to a major. I also intend on volunteering at a lab/clinic to get that requirement checked off. I would recommend looking at area universities--or community colleges, like Pizzabutt--and seeing if there's a non-degree option (maybe a school of continuing studies, or something) that can provide you with a relatively structured way to fill in all the gaps. Stand out, and you shouldn't have trouble getting more LORs. Good luck!

 

[Aura5]

Hmmm! Thank you all very much for your input. It's a lot to absorb and try to figure out, indeed! I'll have to mull it all over in my head some more...

Thank you all again. If I have other questions after I "mull", I'll let you know!

oh and, wdd - 2 of my psych professors were TAs. The one who might have been a PhD - he mostly just lectured at us the whole time, so while I attended all his classes - I don't know what he could say about me that would really stand out. Then, one of the courses was an online course. I don't think she was a TA, and I did get an A there, so...hm...maybe I could try contacting her. But still, it was an online one. And it was a psychology and/or education course too, so I don't remember what her degree was in. Another thing that is probably unique in my situation - I was thinking about fishing for L.o.R's at the end of my senior year, but before I got to it, the year was cut short due to the "massacre" on our campus. So, that kinda ...sucked. for more reason than one!

It does definitely seem I need to get back to a school setting. And as for going back to where I was - my college is 5 hours away from where I am now, so I don't know about doing that! It does seem silly - I probably should have just decided to stay, to catch up, when I was already there. I guess I was determined to get out in 4 years, or something. Darn!

Edit: And okay. I'm thinking more and more I need some hardcore research experience, volunteering or whatever. I saw one thread saying hospitals may be an option to get that. And then, PizzaButt - you said you contact labs all over where you were. Uh, how does one go about finding labs? Where they Psych research labs, or just general ones? Does that matter? (I would think it does.) Or, should I just find local (even community?) colleges around me, and ask if they need a RA volunteer or something...?

 

[Ollie123]

You without a doubt need to find research experience. If you take every psychology class in the world, have a 4.0 and a 1600 GRE, you still have virtually no chance of getting into any program, let alone a good one, without any research experience. If you go PsyD, its less important, but its still pretty rare to see anyone getting into the better PsyD schools without any research experience.

Look up faculty bios on the websites of major colleges and universities in your area and find people doing research of interest to you and then send them an email explaining your situation (not a student, interested in their research, are they looking for volunteers, etc.). Definitely expect to volunteer first, you don't get paid for it until you've proven yourself I'd stay away from CC's personally, but you can try. CC faculty often don't have labs at all and if they do they tend not to be big. A big part of what you need to do is network and get a LoR or two out of this, and chances of you connecting with a well-known person are really infinitely higher at universities.

I'm not trying to bash CCs by the way. They're great if you're looking to fill a requirement or two, take some interesting classes on the side, etc. They are largely removed from the rest of academia though, so at your stage, they are unlikely to be able to help you get what you need right now.

 

[Aura5]

You without a doubt need to find research experience. If you take every psychology class in the world, have a 4.0 and a 1600 GRE, you still have virtually no chance of getting into any program, let alone a good one, without any research experience.

Haha, all right. That makes it pretty clear!

You mentioned how CC's probably aren't good for research - but might be for filling a requirement? I'm pretty sure now that I'll need some sort of a statistics class to get in anywhere, too. Do you think getting one of those from a CC would qualify enough? I don't know how to go about that honestly, because if I was going to just do that at a major university - what, apply just for the summer or something? Lol. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually...it' s just a lot to take in.

And thanks for your advice about how to get a RA position (volunteer or whatever)...I'll have to go do that soon.

Too many little random things to do! I hope I can make this all work one day...

 

[wdd]

if I was going to just do that at a major university - what, apply just for the summer or something?

Google "[university] school of continuing studies" or "[university] adult education," or something to that effect. You should be able to find something at a major uni for "working adults," where you'll take undergrad courses with other adults. You can take these individually, or toward some sort of certificate, and pay as you go, or get financial aid. I haven't looked deeply into programs other than the one at Northwestern, so YMMV.

I just did a cursory search to see if I'm leading you down the wrong Google path, and it looks good from here. (I found U of Chicago, Rice, Georgetown, U of Wisconsin, and Tulane, to name a few.)

 

[Aura5]

Thanks, wdd. I absorb all the advice here like a sponge!

I've conjured up another question. Since I am now trying to find places to gain research experience, and know I am kind of on the low-end of the totem pole as far as what they might want for help (read: beggars can't be choosers) - how important is it that I find something that matches what I'm interested in? I'm seeing some that look more interesting than others, etc. Should I just go for those (more interesting than not), or try to find something that really matches close to my interest area? I guess, I'm trying NOT to take 2-steps backwards here. But since I'm only doing this to get experience to get into a program, I'm not sure how important it is at this level. I know it will be very important to find faculty interests that match mine when choosing a school for the doctorate - but how 'bout for just getting research experience now?

Sorry for all these questions!

 

[FranniePsy]

I'm in a similar situation. I have a B.A. Degree from Princeton in International Politics and my professional experience is in diplomacy, so my background is pretty much irrelevant. The only relevant courses I have taken are General Psychology and Statistics. I have decided to go for a career change and apply to PsyD programs for fall 2009 admission. To "catch up", I am currently taking an Abnormal Psychology and a Developmental Psychology course for credit at UC Berkeley's extension program online and planning to enroll in one on the Biological Bases of Psychology and one on Theories of Psychotherapy when I'm done with them. I'm also auditing a class on Intro to Psychoanalysis and volunteer at a mental health clinic. A lot of time is also spent on studying for the April 2008 GRE Psych. I hope all of this, and my GRE scores in the higher 1400, is going to make me at least a semi-competitive applicant for PsyD programs. My first choices are GWU and the Wright Institute, which are also known to have a higher "tolerance" for people with unconventional backgrounds. Rutgers would be my dream, but I know I have absolutely zero chance there given my lack of research experience.

 

[Aura5]

FranniePsy -

Yay, another non-psychology BA wanting to be a PsyD!

Yeah, I signed up for the April GRE but am not sure if I should go for it yet as I actually haven't found the time to study for it, since most my time is still trying to figure the rest out. I'm leaning towards getting a Master's first anyway, and they may not require the GRE psych test. So I don't want to waste my time/money now if I don't have to.
But, you sound like you have a timeline, at least! What about research experience? Have you gone for that yet?
So you just signed up for classes online for the things you needed to catch up on. hmm. Another good idea...

oh and - how are you studying for that psych GRE? I was disheartened when I looked at some practice ones, and the multitude of questions I was unsure about. Actually, the practice test on the GRE site itself didn't seem too bad. But I got a book, uh - "Barron's" edition for the psych GRE, and that's where I'm running into trouble. A lot of questions about specific studies and whatnot that I don't know the answers to - despite having taken Intro, Abnormal, Developmental, Personality...etc.

 

[FranniePsy]

Hi Aura5...I'm trying to think of ways how a person who's not in an academic setting (i.e. student) could get research experience. I have participated (as a subject) in some psych studies but that's probably not relevant. Do you have any ideas? Right now I'm just focusing on getting the course work done. Online courses are definitely a great way to catch up with coursework, especially if you're a working professional. The costs/tuition vary greatly from school to school...for some weird reason, state school extension programs tend to charge more -- up to $1500 for a single course. Berkeley and Harvard offer them for about $650, and while that's still a lot of money, I find that it's totally worth it. I think there are only a handful of students in my Berkeley course right now, so it's possible to develop enough of a rapport with the professor to be able to ask for recommendations (...which is another major concern for me). I hope that with all the coursework, I should be able to get a good score on the April Psych GRE. I figure if I don't do well, I can still take it again in October next year.

 

[Aura5]

Quoting Ollie from up above:

Look up faculty bios on the websites of major colleges and universities in your area and find people doing research of interest to you and then send them an email explaining your situation (not a student, interested in their research, are they looking for volunteers, etc.). Definitely expect to volunteer first, you don't get paid for it until you've proven yourself I'd stay away from Community Colleges personally, but you can try. CC faculty often don't have labs at all and if they do they tend not to be big. A big part of what you need to do is network and get a LoR or two out of this, and chances of you connecting with a well-known person are really infinitely higher at universities.

So that is some good advice for research experience. Also, others in this thread have offered suggestions - calling different labs in the area, etc. It would most likely be a volunteer position since we lack experience. I've participated as a subject in about 4-5 research experiments too (some psych, some communication) but I agree about the probable irrelevance of those

Thanks for the advice about the online classes. I just need a darn statistics class... and yes, lack of letter's of rec. is a major concern for me as well. That, and research experience. Hmm.