Some unfortunate suggestive evidence about receiving an interview invite now

[SellerAl]

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This is a quote from a transcript of a podcast from Pritzker. The quote is from David Owen, the director of admissions at Pritzker.

"Just reinforcing the importance for us and for all schools that are on rolling admissions: getting things completed professionally, but as early as possible. I can’t stress how important it is to get us the information earlier in the application cycle rather than later. Maybe an example from last year’s application cycle: In January we were reading the last roughly 1,000 files of individuals who had completed in the last roughly about two weeks before the December 1st deadline, and we had six interview slots to be able to give out to those 1,000 individuals. Prior to that, back in August and September when we were reading files, we were giving out interviews to every sixth or seventh or eighth file that we were reading, and so that’s the profound difference of being early in the application cycle versus being later in the application cycle."
-David Owen, Director of Admissions

I already got rejected at Pritzker, but does this probably apply to many other schools as well? How can there be so much optimism about still receiving interview invites? Sorry if I sound like a big downer.

 

[eHombre]

Schools like U of Chicago and U of Michigan are notoriously aggressive with their rolling admissions, so it's probably one of the more extreme situations. That said, I think that Owen's overall point still stands.

 

[NickNaylor]

The degree to which you'll see this sort of "extreme" rolling philosophy varies from school to school. At Michigan (which has very aggressive admissions), something like 75% of their acceptances go to people that were complete in August or September (if you want the exact number, go check out their Twitter - it was posted sometime last spring).

In theory this shouldn't matter for non-rolling schools, but keep in mind that interview invites are given out in a rolling manner even if acceptances aren't. In other words, if you were a complete at, say, Yale in August but didn't receive an interview invitation until January, things don't look good for you from my perspective. Obviously there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but I generally wouldn't be too optimistic about interview invites much later after you were complete (I call this phase the informal or silent hold).

Perhaps the only way this could be a positive is if you were complete late (say, at the end of October or November) and are receiving interview invites. To me, that demonstrates that your application is pretty strong and you're a pretty desirable candidate.

 

[Bartemius]

Plus being complete in mid-November is on the extreme side of lateness. A ton of schools stop accepting applications by that point, so you're already severely limited compared to someone who completed even one month prior.

 

[IMSingular]

"... getting things completed professionally, ."
-David Owen, Director of Admissions
I already got rejected at Pritzker, but does this probably apply to many other schools as well? How can there be so much optimism about still receiving interview invites? Sorry if I sound like a big downer.

What does professionally mean any way? To me that should mean that you select the best students, that is students left over should not be better than the students accepted. Looking at your profile I am more puzzled what "professionally" stands for. I wish you well.

Around 1980 one student, I think a jewish one, sued some school for discriminating against him. The way they do now the schools can never be sued, and may be that is what they mean by "professionally".

 

[gmcguitar4]

so for me, I completed my secondaries from end of June-mid august. If I don't receive an interview invite until january-march, that is not good right?

 

[drizzt3117]

From what I've heard, the culture of early interviews / decisions is an institutional one at UMMS; they do this for residency as well as for med school.

 

[drizzt3117]

so for me, I completed my secondaries from end of June-mid august. If I don't receive an interview invite until january-march, that is not good right?

During my cycle I got 10 interviews (including most of my top ones) after 1/1, and was accepted at 8 of them, fwiw.

 

[NickNaylor]

so for me, I completed my secondaries from end of June-mid august. If I don't receive an interview invite until january-march, that is not good right?

Everyone will have their own opinions, but no, I wouldn't take that to be a particularly hopeful sign. That said, you at least have the opportunity to do an interview, and if you blow their socks off it might be a game changer.

 

[SellerAl]

During my cycle I got 10 interviews (including most of my top ones) after 1/1, and was accepted at 8 of them, fwiw.

made me happy to read that

 

[eHombre]

What does professionally mean any way? To me that should mean that you select the best students, that is students left over should not be better than the students accepted. Looking at your profile I am more puzzled what "professionally" stands for. I wish you well.

Around 1980 one student, I think a jewish one, sued some school for discriminating against him. The way they do now the schools can never be sued, and may be that is what they mean by "professionally".

Um, don't understand why you're attacking the OP. And I don't think the "professionally" in the quote from the director of admissions implies latent discrimination.

I interpreted it to mean "don't obsess about turning in things early so much that you end up writing a crappy typo-ridden personal statement and forget to change the name of the school on your secondary application".

 

[IMSingular]

Um, don't understand why you're attacking the OP. And I don't think the "professionally" in the quote from the director of admissions implies latent discrimination.

I interpreted it to mean "don't obsess about turning in things early so much that you end up writing a crappy typo-ridden personal statement and forget to change the name of the school on your secondary application".

Well I am not attacking OP. Far from it. I am commenting on the part under quotaions that was not OP's opinion; that was coming from the Director of Admissions.

 

[gettheleadout]

What does professionally mean any way? To me that should mean that you select the best students, that is students left over should not be better than the students accepted. Looking at your profile I am more puzzled what "professionally" stands for. I wish you well.

Around 1980 one student, I think a jewish one, sued some school for discriminating against him. The way they do now the schools can never be sued, and may be that is what they mean by "professionally".

I have no clue what you are trying to say in this post.

 

[eHombre]

Well I am not attacking OP. Far from it. I am commenting on the part under quotaions that was not OP's opinion; that was coming from the Director of Admissions.

Oh, okay, I thought you were referring to OP's MDApps profile. Anyway, David Owens goes on in that interview to clarify what he means by "professionally". Seems reasonable to me...


http://pritzkerpodcast.com/2007/08/27/2-the-application-mp3/

MB: I think you’ve said a lot about the things that you should do to make sure your application gets in on time. I’m wondering if there is anything that applicants should not do. Some of the things I’ve heard about in the past are things like plagiarizing your personal statement off the internet or calling the admissions office five times a day every single day to see whether or not your letters of recommendation have arrived. So, I was just wondering if you could give any “don’t's” in the application process. So, why don’t you start, David?

DO: Well, don’t behave unprofessionally, and perhaps that captures two of your points. One is not plagiarizing anything…not stealing ideas or themes. And students feel a little uneasy because they feel like they are just like everybody else and that they can’t write anything that’s original, but in fact, as they interpret their own life, they are putting their own spin on their experiences. They’re telling us how they grew as a human being—the sort of interpersonal skills that they developed, the way they touch people’s lives—and that makes them unique. And so, if they just reflect on their lives, figure out what it was that they did to improve the lot of people around them and how they grew as a human being as a result, they’ve suddenly become really unique and they don’t have to borrow themes from the internet or other places.

And similarly, the notion of being attentive to one’s application—making sure that everything is in—versus harassing admissions offices on a daily basis to find out if their decision has been made, they should project themselves into that position and how they would want to be treated by an applicant: Would they want to hear from that applicant on a daily basis, or would they instead appreciate a biweekly or a monthly follow-up only if the school requests those sort of things? If the school says this is how you should check on their application, that’s how they should check on their application then. So, they should follow the guidelines that the school gives about how to keep track of their application. But they should pay attention to it. It’s their application. Nobody cares about it like they do, and so they should take responsibility for it.

 

[TheGloaming]

I have no clue what you are trying to say in this post.

+1. Haha, what is he/she talking about? I thought what was posted earlier, "I interpreted it to mean "don't obsess about turning in things early so much that you end up writing a crappy typo-ridden personal statement and forget to change the name of the school on your secondary application"' was pretty clear and easy to infer from Owen's quote.

 

[jdok]

I have no clue what you are trying to say in this post.

x3 lmao.

I was reading his post and thought "this guy must be smoking some stress and probably posted in the wrong thread"

 

[SellerAl]

I have no clue what you are trying to say in this post.

same

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I have no clue what you are trying to say in this post.

@you and the peanut gallery with the +1's.... really?

cliff-notes - the poster was commenting on Owen's definition of "professional" in the context of the citation doesn't seem congruous with his idea of admissions. he believes the OP should have been interviewed based on OP's MDapps.

 

[eHombre]

@you and the peanut gallery with the +1's.... really?

cliff-notes - the poster was commenting on Owen's definition of "professional" in the context of the citation doesn't seem congruous with his idea of admissions. he believes the OP should have been interviewed based on OP's MDapps.

Okay, I get now what IMSingular was saying, but the OP's MDApps doesn't have nearly enough information to conclude that OP had gotten shafted with the Pritzker rejection. Good stats don't equal automatic acceptance, and OP already said that he/she had applied late.

Regardless, IMSingular definitely misinterpreted the dean's remarks.

 

[TheGloaming]

@you and the peanut gallery with the +1's.... really?

cliff-notes - the poster was commenting on Owen's definition of "professional" in the context of the citation doesn't seem congruous with his idea of admissions. he believes the OP should have been interviewed based on OP's MDapps.

Isn't the dean referring to the applicants completing their applications professionally rather than the school and adcom completing their side of the process professionally?

 

[jdok]

@you and the peanut gallery with the +1's.... really?

cliff-notes - the poster was commenting on Owen's definition of "professional" in the context of the citation doesn't seem congruous with his idea of admissions. he believes the OP should have been interviewed based on OP's MDapps.

Are you a wizard?

 

[Techmed07]

The degree to which you'll see this sort of "extreme" rolling philosophy varies from school to school. At Michigan (which has very aggressive admissions), something like 75% of their acceptances go to people that were complete in August or September (if you want the exact number, go check out their Twitter - it was posted sometime last spring).

In theory this shouldn't matter for non-rolling schools, but keep in mind that interview invites are given out in a rolling manner even if acceptances aren't. In other words, if you were a complete at, say, Yale in August but didn't receive an interview invitation until January, things don't look good for you from my perspective. Obviously there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but I generally wouldn't be too optimistic about interview invites much later after you were complete (I call this phase the informal or silent hold).

Perhaps the only way this could be a positive is if you were complete late (say, at the end of October or November) and are receiving interview invites. To me, that demonstrates that your application is pretty strong and you're a pretty desirable candidate.

How about being complete somewhere around July and getting an invite in November (non rolling school). In addition, how does it bode if you reschedule your interview for a later date in the cycle?

 

[Suncrusher]

made me happy to read that

i don't want to bum you out, but i think i recall that he was accepted to either an extremely large number of schools or an extremely large number of top schools...or both...I don't think he was a typical applicant maybe i'm wrong

i too got interview invites after 1/1, but as a much more typical applicant, I was waitlisted after all but one of them

 

[NickNaylor]

i don't want to bum you out, but i think i recall that he was accepted to either an extremely large number of schools or an extremely large number of top schools...or both...I don't think he was a typical applicant maybe i'm wrong

i too got interview invites after 1/1, but as a much more typical applicant, I was waitlisted after all but one of them

That was my experience as well. I was waitlisted at all of my interviews that happened after November and I was complete at all schools in early August.

 

[drizzt3117]

i don't want to bum you out, but i think i recall that he was accepted to either an extremely large number of schools or an extremely large number of top schools...or both...I don't think he was a typical applicant maybe i'm wrong

i too got interview invites after 1/1, but as a much more typical applicant, I was waitlisted after all but one of them

I guess, I had somewhat high stats and am non-trad, I'm not sure that my experiences are atypical, though. I was complete early at every school, maybe it just took them longer to read my app.

 

[TheGloaming]

That was my experience as well. I was waitlisted at all of my interviews that happened after November and I was complete at all schools in early August.

Do you think that's partly because those schools were top schools or not? I realize its going to vary from school to school of course but is there a trend seen due to rankings, perhaps?

 

[gravitywave]

In other words, if you were a complete at, say, Yale in August but didn't receive an interview invitation until January, things don't look good for you from my perspective. Obviously there are going to be exceptions to the rule, but I generally wouldn't be too optimistic about interview invites much later after you were complete (I call this phase the informal or silent hold).

I agree with the rest of your post, Nick, but I'm wondering why you would say this. The whole idea behind the rolling process at most schools that use it is that interviewees get ranked as their files go complete, and that they then send out acceptances to the top of the list in March and watch the waitlist season play out from there. There isn't any disadvantage to interviewing at Yale in February as opposed to October, unless it's the disadvantage the applicant suffers from being on their twelfth interview and having a serious case of senioritis.

Now, the schedule by which non-rolling schools extend invites is quite similar to that used by rolling schools, and so it is still a huge advantage to have your app in by Labor Day. But once you get to the interview phase, folks are on pretty even footing. Compare this to rolling schools, where many late interviewees are almost guaranteed a spot on the waitlist.

 

[r1d1]

I guess, I had somewhat high stats and am non-trad, I'm not sure that my experiences are atypical, though. I was complete early at every school, maybe it just took them longer to read my app.

Does your last name start with a T or beyond? 🙄

 

[NickNaylor]

I agree with the rest of your post, Nick, but I'm wondering why you would say this. The whole idea behind the rolling process at most schools that use it is that interviewees get ranked as their files go complete, and that they then send out acceptances to the top of the list in March and watch the waitlist season play out from there. There isn't any disadvantage to interviewing at Yale in February as opposed to October, unless it's the disadvantage the applicant suffers from being on their twelfth interview and having a serious case of senioritis.

Now, the schedule by which non-rolling schools extend invites is quite similar to that used by rolling schools, and so it is still a huge advantage to have your app in by Labor Day. But once you get to the interview phase, folks are on pretty even footing. Compare this to rolling schools, where many late interviewees are almost guaranteed a spot on the waitlist.

If you have a pool of applicants, then it would only make sense that the most desirable applicants in the pool at a particular time are invited to interview. The pool is constantly changing since people submit their applications at various times, but I'd contend that the less time you spend in limbo status, the better. If a school gets you an invite quickly, it suggests that they probably aren't expecting an application from an applicant stronger than you; if you're more of a borderline applicant, on the other hand, the school will likely hold out and "play the field" before deciding to extend you an invitation.

So no, this rule is obviously not set in stone, but I do think it gives you a very, very rough idea of where you might stand - even if all interviewed applicants are evaluated as a pool as is done in non-rolling admissions. If two applicants were complete at the same time (say, August), but one received an invitation to interview in September while another received an invitation in January, I would say the first applicant has a better chance than the second to get an acceptance.

I'd be interested in seeing data that links when applicants to a non-rolling school were complete, when they were invited to interview (or how long they were complete before they got an interview), and their ultimate admissions decision. I'm betting people that spent less time waiting for an invitation are more likely to get an acceptance, assuming no tragedies occurred in the interview.

 

[VectreSpectre]

As someone who hasn't received an II yet this cycle, it bums me out to have this same point drilled into my head over and over. Unfortunately, I didn't get my MCAT back until September, so I really couldn't be extremely early with most secondaries - I was complete by mid October at most of my 12 schools, but just added 6 recently due to worrying. I have an average MCAT, excellent GPA and solid, well-rounded ECs. I'm really starting to think that lateness may be the reason I'll have any trouble getting in... It's frustrating to see friends getting acceptances already and I haven't heard a peep back.

 

[gettheleadout]

Isn't the dean referring to the applicants completing their applications professionally rather than the school and adcom completing their side of the process professionally?

This was my interpretation as well.

 

[drizzt3117]

If you have a pool of applicants, then it would only make sense that the most desirable applicants in the pool at a particular time are invited to interview. The pool is constantly changing since people submit their applications at various times, but I'd contend that the less time you spend in limbo status, the better. If a school gets you an invite quickly, it suggests that they probably aren't expecting an application from an applicant stronger than you; if you're more of a borderline applicant, on the other hand, the school will likely hold out and "play the field" before deciding to extend you an invitation.

So no, this rule is obviously not set in stone, but I do think it gives you a very, very rough idea of where you might stand - even if all interviewed applicants are evaluated as a pool as is done in non-rolling admissions. If two applicants were complete at the same time (say, August), but one received an invitation to interview in September while another received an invitation in January, I would say the first applicant has a better chance than the second to get an acceptance.

I'd be interested in seeing data that links when applicants to a non-rolling school were complete, when they were invited to interview (or how long they were complete before they got an interview), and their ultimate admissions decision. I'm betting people that spent less time waiting for an invitation are more likely to get an acceptance, assuming no tragedies occurred in the interview.

There are a lot more factors that go into admissions than this. A lot of the non-rolling schools have specific faculty/students who review students from a given undergrad institution. These people are typically MDs, medical students, or PhDs who run labs, i.e. very busy people. Depending on their schedule, review of apps may be done at different times. I wouldn't necessarily use your interview date to evaluate your competitiveness unless we're talking about a September offer vs a March offer.

 

[VectreSpectre]

Also, I think the point that it varies from school to school bears repeating. U of Iowa Carver, for example, divides its application season into rolling and non rolling portions. Up through December, they randomly take 25 applicants that have interviewed and vote on them. This happens several times a month (I think? maybe monthly). If they like you, then you're accepted. If not, you're placed into what's called the "final pool". Any applicants interviewed beyond a certain point in January are automatically placed in the final pool with hundreds of other applicants. Any apps drawn from the final pool are deemed to be waitlisted, accepted or rejected - there's no second chance like before. So it's to your advantage to interview earlier to compete with only 25 applicants as opposed to thousands. Thanks to the Carver thread for that info.

 

[NickNaylor]

There are a lot more factors that go into admissions than this. A lot of the non-rolling schools have specific faculty/students who review students from a given undergrad institution. These people are typically MDs, medical students, or PhDs who run labs, i.e. very busy people. Depending on their schedule, review of apps may be done at different times. I wouldn't necessarily use your interview date to evaluate your competitiveness unless we're talking about a September offer vs a March offer.

No doubt - that's why it's a very rough estimate of where you stand.

 

[MT Headed]

As someone who hasn't received an II yet this cycle, it bums me out to have this same point drilled into my head over and over. Unfortunately, I didn't get my MCAT back until September, so I really couldn't be extremely early with most secondaries - I was complete by mid October at most of my 12 schools

I don't understand. I got my MCAT results back at the end of August and then I was complete. My primaries, secondaries, and LORs had already been submitted. The month long gap between MCAT and results is an excellent time to finish the secondaries, yes?

 

[VectreSpectre]

First of all, I just wanted to say that your app is amazing. I remember reading a thread about it a while back haha

Secondly, that's true. In my case, I really wasn't sure how I'd do on the MCAT, and that was really affecting my school list. I took it once before and got a fluke low score, then had to retake it ASAP. Once I got it back, I refined my school list very quickly and went from there. You're absolutely right though, I could have been a little more on the ball about things, as I didn't do any prewriting. School and family stuff started getting in the way, combined with me being a perfectionist on the essays. Still, I would've liked to have been complete in July like I had initially planned.

 

[Narmerguy]

I think really people should focus on the aspects that they can control. If you apply to a nonrolling school and get an interview late, there's nothing you can do about that--whether that suggests you have weaker chances or not.

However, I'll chime in and agree that our knowledge of the admissions policies at one school does not necessarily translate to many others. U Chicago has an applicant pool, cost, location, financial aid policy, and etc that allows them to do things with their admissions that other schools might not want to.