Someone please tell me it will be alright (Student Loan situation)

Chemboy23

10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2008
506
1
Jackson, MS
Status
Pre-Dental
First, before I get into the financial aspects of this post I want to say that I love dentistry and I would be happy doing it for a decent income. No amount of money can ever make you content and I know that, but I have some growing concerns over the bills I will owe when graduating from dental school.

Currently, when I graduate from dental school (Loma Linda) I will owe right at 350k in student loans. It seems there are tons of different avenues you can approach repayment on these loans. I just wanted to really open this discussion up to you all to hear ideas. I love hearing what advice others have and hopefully you will all chime in on this discussion.

Options I have:

A) Get a job working as an associate for about 5 years. I have seen that most associates earn at least ~$120,000/yr. I am used to living on barely anything, so if I were to net $50,000/yr, that would be a wonderful living to me. At this rate (disregarding interest for the moment) I could pay down this loan significantly. At least get it down to where I owe less than $75,000. After the student loans have been paid down, try to then start a practice.

B) Get out of school and start a practice. This, in my opinion, is VERY risky. I would be scared to sleep at night knowing I owed next to one MILLION dollars. It seems if you do it this way, you end up getting hit hard by the interest on the back end (student loans). The interest from the practice loan + the interest from the student loans is astronomical. I just used $350,000 as a number for both the loans and the practice setup, putting us at a grand total of $700,000 in debt. :scared:

Please, someone explain the best way to approach all of this. I know dentists that have about 5 years or so of experience are the best to ask about this. I will take advice from anyone though...this is preposterous that we will owe this much money.

Something has to be done about this. I know the professors at dental schools are highly trained, well-educated individuals who deserve to get paid a nice amount. But, this tuition is getting out of hand, I mean 350k??? That is a TON of money. I come from a family that are hard-working country people so maybe I'm over-reacting because I'm not used to throwing numbers like that around.
 
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slm266

Dentist
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Nov 5, 2008
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This probably isnt what you'd like to hear but......

Don't worry about it...yet. It really depends on the current market 5 years from now, and the location that you want to practice in.

Advice from us predents most likely isnt worth much. This topic has been covered countless times in the Dental Thread, as well as the one for practicing dentists. Do some reading. In dental school I'm sure you will have courses on this topic, or will at least have resources available to help you make this decision.
 

dentalWorks

Nights Watchmen
7+ Year Member
Jun 25, 2009
5,646
158
Sterling Hts, Mi
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Dentist
First, before I get into the financial aspects of this post I want to say that I love dentistry and I would be happy doing it for a decent income. No amount of money can ever make you content and I know that, but I have some growing concerns over the bills I will owe when graduating from dental school.

Currently, when I graduate from dental school (Loma Linda) I will owe right at 350k in student loans. It seems there are tons of different avenues you can approach repayment on these loans. I just wanted to really open this discussion up to you all to hear ideas. I love hearing what advice others have and hopefully you will all chime in on this discussion.
Don't you think this kind of "freaking-out" attitude shoulda been done BEFORE applying to DS? :laugh::laugh:

A) Get a job working as an associate for about 5 years. I have seen that most associates earn at least ~$120,000/yr. I am used to living on barely anything, so if I were to net $50,000/yr, that would be a wonderful living to me. At this rate (disregarding interest for the moment) I could pay down this loan significantly. At least get it down to where I owe less than $75,000. After the student loans have been paid down, try to then start a practice.
This is the most ideal option. But expect to make less than $120,000k a year. I like to think about "worst-case scenario". Say, you will earn 100k your first year. Well, according to this calculator http://www.collegeanswer.com/financing/lt_financial_planning/ltfp_monthrep.jsp

$350,000 on a 7% interest, and if you are planning to pay it all off in:
->5 years? thats $6300 per month
->8 years? thats $4800 per month
->15 years? thats $3100 per month
->25 years? thats $2500 per month

So, if you are earning 100k, take 30k for taxes (god bless them), that leaves you with 70k, you have a family behind you right? So, lets say 40k (somewhat conservative, old cars, small house, 1.5 MB internet connection, etc etc) goes into your living, leaves you with 30k to pay off for student loans (Yes those loans are NOT tax-deductible), which means you can pay about $2500 per month...... that leaves you with a 25-year replayment plan (ouch) on the first year you are working as an associate

The advantage you have is, I think you are married, correct? is that you and your wife can work. If she makes, even 30-50k a year, it will HELP tremendously, especially the first 4-5 years your out of school.

This is why I really believe the new generation dentists should take advantage of one of the following:
(a) if you have a family member who is a successful dentist (father? mother? brother? sister? first cousin? even close friend?), you can arrange a partnership agreement with them, go 50/50 both of you.... this is a HUGE advantage cause he/she will be giving you the experience needed to run a new practice while you doing all the "grunt" work. If done correctly, can be very profitable.

(b) HRSA repayment options, yeh you might need to work in a rural setting, but, they give you $60,000 as repayment money if you work full time in a "designated" area for 2 years. The 60k is tax-free, so it ALL goes into your loans while at the same time, you are actually earning a paycheck at the office that hires you.... How much? I have no idea what their earnings are. This is not the scholarship program, this is just something HRSA does

(c) you can do the military route. But you have a family, so.... I don't think this is going to work out too well for you

B) Get out of school and start a practice. This, in my opinion, is VERY risky. I would be scared to sleep at night knowing I owed next to one MILLION dollars. It seems if you do it this way, you end up getting hit hard by the interest on the back end (student loans). The interest from the practice loan + the interest from the student loans is astronomical. I just used $350,000 as a number for both the loans and the practice setup, putting us at a grand total of $700,000 in debt. :scared:
It is very very risky. Right out of DS, your hand skills aren't even developed. So to summarize: working skills aren't fine-tuned, your business skills are non-existent...I would stay away from this idea my first 1-2 years out of DS.

I know some gutsy folks have done it and were successful at it, but I've also read some who fell down hard and got burned.

Please, someone explain the best way to approach all of this. I know dentists that have about 5 years or so of experience are the best to ask about this. I will take advice from anyone though...this is preposterous that we will owe this much money.

Something has to be done about this. I know the professors at dental schools are highly trained, well-educated individuals who deserve to get paid a nice amount. But, this tuition is getting out of hand, I mean 350k??? That is a TON of money. I come from a family that are hard-working country people so maybe I'm over-reacting because I'm not used to throwing numbers like that around.
There is nothing to be done, if someone doesn't want to be in debt, its simple, don't go into health care. A while back I posted my opinion about why dental school cost is going up... and I just got a light-bulb as to another reason why that is.:idea:
Maybe, the powers to be are seeing that the healthcare industry is really turning into a "6-figure" industry. Many students are driven to it solely for the monetary gains...... so, they are now designing a system such that only people who are absolutely passionate about health care (at any cost) will go into the field.
 

cmcner

10+ Year Member
Jan 4, 2008
444
146
Status
Dentist
I posted this the other day you seem like you could use it, here:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=779584

Since I go to the most expensive school on earth (dental school is the most expensive type of school, USC is arguably the most expensive of them) I've thought about debt too so I'll share my thinking.

First off don't wait a year you may never get in to anywhere again including the place that accepted you this year. Waiting a year means losing a year salary which is like losing a year of experience and $120,000 on the low end. The difference in prices of schools is rarely much more than that.

Second know your options.
The military is good if you're that type of person, but if your husband is graduating at 36 does he really want to be in the military for four years?
IBR is Income based repayment, you pay 15% of your Adjusted Gross Income for 25 years and the rest of your government loans are forgiven, but you're taxed on it. No matter what type of financial hardship you may encounter you payment is based on your salary so it should never overwhelm you, however the tax bill in year 25 can be killer, so be prepared.
PSLF is Public service loan forgiveness, if you work for 10 years for a nonprofit or the government the rest of your federal loans are forgiven tax free, if your husband doesn't want to open his own practice this might not be a bad route, find a non profit hospital or becoming a dental professor would satisfy this. You can (and basically have to) combine this with IBR so you pay 15% for 10 years and the rest is forgiven.
I won't explain the 10 year and 25 year standard payment plan because most people understand them, but you can do graduated payments with them so keep that in mind.

So that is a starting point good luck and do your own research from here. Remember the govt can change any of these programs at any time so you just have to roll the dice when it comes to that.
 
Jun 21, 2009
27
0
Status
Pre-Dental
Establishing a targeted repayment plan that retires high interest loans first will save big in the end. I agree that you have plenty of time to position yourself. They are large numbers but they are also numbers that are relative to the income bracket for a licensed DDS. SDN actually had an article regarding repayment a little while ago, if you search "student loans" or "student debt" or something like that it should take you there. It is very simple but like the article says a lot of people set up an automatic pay and don't realize that a particular loan is drawing so much interest that if they had payed on it first it would have saved them big in the end. I was just accepted to UDM and I am acutely aware of the financial burden. For now I am more concerned with handling 21 credits the first semester. Like you I feel it is important to get all the info regarding my financial debt ahead of time. But I have a friend who practices and when he left IU he had over 400k in debt and he finished in 05 and has retired 90% of it.
 
May 10, 2010
53
0
Status
Pre-Pharmacy
Yeah, I'm so concerned on just getting the stats in order to be a competitive applicant, and it's pretty scary to start thinking about loans like that. My state school(Medical College of Ga) is one of the cheapest dental schools in the country so I'm really hoping I can get in there, but it's really competitive and I have may have to settle for out of state, which I'm not too excited about.

If it seems like too much I might try applying for the military route, it sucks because I would much rather get out of school and start working on my own career, but it would be nice to have all of those debts cleared. It seems like adding another 4 years to this process of being a dentist which seems neverending at this point. :laugh:

Good luck figuring it out, and it works itself out for 99% of dentists, remember that. Regardless of your debt, you'll have one of the most valuable degrees in the world in your hands and should be able to make a good living for yourself. You probably won't be living in luxury for a while, but you shouldn't ever have to worry about making ends meet.
 
OP
Chemboy23

Chemboy23

10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2008
506
1
Jackson, MS
Status
Pre-Dental
This probably isnt what you'd like to hear but......

Don't worry about it...yet. It really depends on the current market 5 years from now, and the location that you want to practice in.

Advice from us predents most likely isnt worth much. This topic has been covered countless times in the Dental Thread, as well as the one for practicing dentists. Do some reading. In dental school I'm sure you will have courses on this topic, or will at least have resources available to help you make this decision.
Yes, true...I guess we really can't worry now. My main worries need to be focused on making it through dental school at this point. Thanks for you words :) I guess if you are happy, nothing else matters as long as you make a respectable salary.
 
OP
Chemboy23

Chemboy23

10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2008
506
1
Jackson, MS
Status
Pre-Dental
Don't you think this kind of "freaking-out" attitude shoulda been done BEFORE applying to DS? :laugh::laugh:


This is the most ideal option. But expect to make less than $120,000k a year. I like to think about "worst-case scenario". Say, you will earn 100k your first year. Well, according to this calculator http://www.collegeanswer.com/financing/lt_financial_planning/ltfp_monthrep.jsp

$350,000 on a 7% interest, and if you are planning to pay it all off in:
->5 years? thats $6300 per month
->8 years? thats $4800 per month
->15 years? thats $3100 per month
->25 years? thats $2500 per month

So, if you are earning 100k, take 30k for taxes (god bless them), that leaves you with 70k, you have a family behind you right? So, lets say 40k (somewhat conservative, old cars, small house, 1.5 MB internet connection, etc etc) goes into your living, leaves you with 30k to pay off for student loans (Yes those loans are NOT tax-deductible), which means you can pay about $2500 per month...... that leaves you with a 25-year replayment plan (ouch) on the first year you are working as an associate

The advantage you have is, I think you are married, correct? is that you and your wife can work. If she makes, even 30-50k a year, it will HELP tremendously, especially the first 4-5 years your out of school.

This is why I really believe the new generation dentists should take advantage of one of the following:
(a) if you have a family member who is a successful dentist (father? mother? brother? sister? first cousin? even close friend?), you can arrange a partnership agreement with them, go 50/50 both of you.... this is a HUGE advantage cause he/she will be giving you the experience needed to run a new practice while you doing all the "grunt" work. If done correctly, can be very profitable.

(b) HRSA repayment options, yeh you might need to work in a rural setting, but, they give you $60,000 as repayment money if you work full time in a "designated" area for 2 years. The 60k is tax-free, so it ALL goes into your loans while at the same time, you are actually earning a paycheck at the office that hires you.... How much? I have no idea what their earnings are. This is not the scholarship program, this is just something HRSA does

(c) you can do the military route. But you have a family, so.... I don't think this is going to work out too well for you


It is very very risky. Right out of DS, your hand skills aren't even developed. So to summarize: working skills aren't fine-tuned, your business skills are non-existent...I would stay away from this idea my first 1-2 years out of DS.

I know some gutsy folks have done it and were successful at it, but I've also read some who fell down hard and got burned.



There is nothing to be done, if someone doesn't want to be in debt, its simple, don't go into health care. A while back I posted my opinion about why dental school cost is going up... and I just got a light-bulb as to another reason why that is.:idea:
Maybe, the powers to be are seeing that the healthcare industry is really turning into a "6-figure" industry. Many students are driven to it solely for the monetary gains...... so, they are now designing a system such that only people who are absolutely passionate about health care (at any cost) will go into the field.
DentalWorks...AWESOME post! You always amaze me with your knowledge about the field of dentistry. Everything you say here makes perfect sense. I am really thinking of going the associate route for at least 3-5 years. I think a lot of it is on how hard you're willing to work as well. I am willing to work on the weekends to help get this debt paid down. The risks of opening a practice right out of school are just wayyyy to high for me.

Yes, I do have a wife and two kids so the military isn't necessarily the best route for me. If I can clear 40or 50k per year in the first 5 years out of school (throwing most of my money into the student loans) I think we will be fine. She does loan processing for a mortgage company in Phoenix. She makes about 45k per year...so I really think we'll be fine.

You're right, the military isn't for me. I went that route and absolutely hated it out of high school. I wasn't the typical predental guy to say the least. I always knew I wanted to be a dentist...just never thought the potential was really in me to make it through that much schooling. Long story short, the military did, however, give me GREAT self-discipline and that was what I gained from them the most. They taught me how to be interested in what's going on around me, planning for my future, etc...

The HRSA option sounds like a great option. Maybe do 4 years in that to get 120k paid off...if that would be available in Mississippi. I have been accepted at Loma Linda and to pay off the loans I will get there...it will be next to impossible to practice dentistry in Mississippi.

My state school is EXTREMELY difficult to get into right now (MS) if you aren't a minority or a female. They only accept ~34 students per cycle...and I have yet to receive an interview. I calculated the debt costs up and this is the debt difference between the two:

University of Mississippi Medical Center SOD: 136k (total including undergrad)
Loma Linda: 350k (total, including undergrad as well)

As you can see, the difference is astounding. But what do you do? Do I sit out and keep hoping for the next five years that UMC will take me? I literally know people who have been waiting 4-5 years to get into dental school here.
 
Dec 21, 2009
63
0
Status
Pre-Dental
I didn't read all the post above because they were to long!! But weren't you freaking about having applied x amount of times and nothing, you sounded depressed. Now your in! You always knew it was going to be expensive...cross that bridge when you get to it. I.e. 4.7 years
 
OP
Chemboy23

Chemboy23

10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2008
506
1
Jackson, MS
Status
Pre-Dental
Establishing a targeted repayment plan that retires high interest loans first will save big in the end. I agree that you have plenty of time to position yourself. They are large numbers but they are also numbers that are relative to the income bracket for a licensed DDS. SDN actually had an article regarding repayment a little while ago, if you search "student loans" or "student debt" or something like that it should take you there. It is very simple but like the article says a lot of people set up an automatic pay and don't realize that a particular loan is drawing so much interest that if they had payed on it first it would have saved them big in the end. I was just accepted to UDM and I am acutely aware of the financial burden. For now I am more concerned with handling 21 credits the first semester. Like you I feel it is important to get all the info regarding my financial debt ahead of time. But I have a friend who practices and when he left IU he had over 400k in debt and he finished in 05 and has retired 90% of it.
Well, that sounds promising. I have went from worried about being accepted to being terrified with all of these student loans. I know it will all work out in the end though. Thanks for your advice! All the best to you.
 
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Chemboy23

Chemboy23

10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2008
506
1
Jackson, MS
Status
Pre-Dental
I didn't read all the post above because they were to long!! But weren't you freaking about having applied x amount of times and nothing, you sounded depressed. Now your in! You always knew it was going to be expensive...cross that bridge when you get to it. I.e. 4.7 years
Yes you are right. This is actually my first time to apply, so I got VERY lucky to get in. And, yes, I knew it would be expensive...but 47k per year doesn't sound bad until you add on 60k for undergrad and then multiply out 47k x 4...LOL, plus living expenses. My total loans while in dental school will be ~77k per year because I am married and I must do something to support a family. Unfortunately, I'm not from a rich family that can just throw 300k into something and not worry too much about it. I know you probably aren't either...but I think it's a very good idea to think about these types of things so when you do get out of school...you're not sitting there trying to figure out what to do. I just like to hear everyone's ideas on the best approach to the problem. Best wishes, hope you have a great Christmas.
 
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Chemboy23

Chemboy23

10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2008
506
1
Jackson, MS
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Pre-Dental
Yeah, I'm so concerned on just getting the stats in order to be a competitive applicant, and it's pretty scary to start thinking about loans like that. My state school(Medical College of Ga) is one of the cheapest dental schools in the country so I'm really hoping I can get in there, but it's really competitive and I have may have to settle for out of state, which I'm not too excited about.

If it seems like too much I might try applying for the military route, it sucks because I would much rather get out of school and start working on my own career, but it would be nice to have all of those debts cleared. It seems like adding another 4 years to this process of being a dentist which seems neverending at this point. :laugh:

Good luck figuring it out, and it works itself out for 99% of dentists, remember that. Regardless of your debt, you'll have one of the most valuable degrees in the world in your hands and should be able to make a good living for yourself. You probably won't be living in luxury for a while, but you shouldn't ever have to worry about making ends meet.
Yes, you most definitely want to go in-state if at all possible. He in MS, the problem is they only have 35 slots and it's next to impossible to get in if you're not a female or an "underrepresented minority," the later being from the new healthcare law. It's on page 909...if you happen to be interested. Hope you're doing well, and Happy Holidays!
 
Dec 21, 2009
63
0
Status
Pre-Dental
Yes you are right. This is actually my first time to apply, so I got VERY lucky to get in. And, yes, I knew it would be expensive...but 47k per year doesn't sound bad until you add on 60k for undergrad and then multiply out 47k x 4...LOL, plus living expenses. My total loans while in dental school will be ~77k per year because I am married and I must do something to support a family. Unfortunately, I'm not from a rich family that can just throw 300k into something and not worry too much about it. I know you probably aren't either...but I think it's a very good idea to think about these types of things so when you do get out of school...you're not sitting there trying to figure out what to do. I just like to hear everyone's ideas on the best approach to the problem. Best wishes, hope you have a great Christmas.
I was just trying to say, don't let it get you down. Think too yourself, 99% of those attending dental school (or who will be) are exactly in the same boat as you, including me. If other people make it, so can I. If the bank didn't think you could pay it back, you wouldn't even get the dental school loans. The bottom line is, as a dentist you will be a stable wage earner and in all likelihood will be able to handle your debt. Graduating dentists face this same dilemma every year, and somehow they make it. You will too. In the mean time, celebrate your acceptance! Merry Christmas to you too and your family.
 
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bonvivant07

5+ Year Member
Jul 18, 2010
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Resident [Any Field]
Yes, you most definitely want to go in-state if at all possible. He in MS, the problem is they only have 35 slots and it's next to impossible to get in if you're not a female or an "underrepresented minority," the later being from the new healthcare law. It's on page 909...if you happen to be interested. Hope you're doing well, and Happy Holidays!

I wouldn't wait if I were you. Each year it gets harder to get in.

With the extra years of being a dentist instead of trying to get into dental school, you will make more money using those years as a dentist.

You could also work for the US Health Prof shortage area, I believe they pay back a decent amount of loans for you and it is not as obligatory as the military with a lot more freedom. You can do up to 4 years I believe.

350,000 is a large amount but it is also doable. Your kids are still young which is good. I would say just use your wife's salary to live on and pay back 60-70k each year. I am serious, people may laugh at this and say how is that possible? It is. tighten your belt for 3-4 years and you will be in a better position to splurge once your debt is down to around 60k. :)

Good luck!

Oh and also, you have to account for the fact that each year of experience, you will get a decent raise. so you may be making 70 after taxes first yearbut you will be making 80k and 100k and so on.
 
Dec 8, 2010
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Fresh right out of dental school, a first year dental student normally gets paid $98,000 on average. After 1-2 years, you normally talk with the dentist who hired you and would get around $120,000.

You also have to think about the income tax and everything.

Predental students have this idea that they will all be millionaires. If you look at the dentists in their 50-60s, of course some of them are millionaires. Dentists did very well in those times. Nowadays, there's much higher competition, dentists are retiring at a later age and of course, the big problem of large student debt that dentists didn't used to have.

The truth is, no one knows what will happen in dentistry in 10-20 years. There are projections (i.e.- dental industry will grow at an average level compared to other industries), but it's a projection...you can never really count on them. Physician demand is projected to grow at a higher level than the average, but at the same time, we don't know what's going to happen in medicine after healthcare reform, healthcare costs soaring, etc.
It's the same for dentistry. Orthodontics did well in 90s and early 2000, but nowdays, the income dropped, higher competition, not to mention, orthodontists retire at a much later age, since..yeah.

I think that if you look at just right now, dentistry is a stable career. It's not financially the best career. The return on investment-to-medicine ratio is, for example, higher than medicine, but it's lower than a lot of other careers (i.e.-business, computer science (IT) ). But we become dentists not just because of money. We, predentals, and premeds, all go into dentistry and medicine because of something else that's personally more important to us. The primary reason is treating patients.

I also get bothered when someone says dentists have potentially higher earning potential than physicians. They really don't. Yes dentists work 30-40 hrs a week, and theoretically if you worked more hours, you earn more, but the reality is that you cant. Well you can, but that doesnt mean working 60 hours will get you double the amount, because there's a time frame that most patients are available and that's when you are open. Physicians also have private practices, and yeah they earn a lot. I hear about private practicing oncologists racking up million dollars a year from physicians and residential chiefs, but that's just a story that you hear from someone. Just like, "I shadowed this dentist and he makes a million dollars" You have to think about it in terms of the population not on individual cases to predict how much you will make. Okay I digress, so I will stop here. sorry.

Dentistry is a stable, worthwhile career. nothing less...and nothing more as many predents fantasize it to be.
 
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OP
Chemboy23

Chemboy23

10+ Year Member
Aug 8, 2008
506
1
Jackson, MS
Status
Pre-Dental
I wouldn't wait if I were you. Each year it gets harder to get in.

With the extra years of being a dentist instead of trying to get into dental school, you will make more money using those years as a dentist.

You could also work for the US Health Prof shortage area, I believe they pay back a decent amount of loans for you and it is not as obligatory as the military with a lot more freedom. You can do up to 4 years I believe.

350,000 is a large amount but it is also doable. Your kids are still young which is good. I would say just use your wife's salary to live on and pay back 60-70k each year. I am serious, people may laugh at this and say how is that possible? It is. tighten your belt for 3-4 years and you will be in a better position to splurge once your debt is down to around 60k. :)

Good luck!

Oh and also, you have to account for the fact that each year of experience, you will get a decent raise. so you may be making 70 after taxes first yearbut you will be making 80k and 100k and so on.
That's pretty much what I'm thinking as well, I've seen people waiting 4 years to get in...preposterous!

Yes, that Health Professional Shortage area is a great program. I would venture to say that dentists are probably not wanting to stay in Mississippi due to the lower income potential here, as compared to somewhere like California or the like. It works out well for me, because I want to be in MS so I will be getting paid to serve the place I call home and love dearly.

Yes, I agree with using most of my wife's salary until we get this debt paid down a little. She makes around 45k per year, so if I can just clear 30k I will be very happy (while I pay the 70k per year as you've said). This is about the only way to get out of it, and in my opinion, the smartest way to get out of debt. People that extend their payments on such a large principal are NUTS! They end up doubling what they owe, instead of just sacrificing for 4-5 years to pay their loans off before entering a private practice. Everyone would love to get out of school and drive a Ferrari, buy a million dollar home, and all the above...but that will put you being a slave to your loan lender for the rest of your life. I love this thread! Very glad I started it...I hope you're doing well my friend and best wishes and I want to be among the first to wish you and your family a Happy Holidays and a very Merry Christmas.
 

yappy

10+ Year Member
Jul 11, 2008
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I dont know about these points. I think you're viewing these other fields through rose colored glasses.

For point two... I think in general most UG who have not worked full time/ paid bills/ lived on their own have no concept of how much money dentists actully make. For example, look above "-4k/month after taxes" and servicing your student loan - most people in the US would kill for that.

Maybe I'm poor. Maybe I'm cheap. My wife and I live on 920/month (rent/food/insurance/utilities/etc...). To me; student loans can be a burdon. The potential income of a dentist is pretty good; but both these things wont influence anything as much as your personal spending habits.

I say go for it chemboy!



The return on investment-to-medicine ratio is, for example, higher than medicine, but it's lower than a lot of other careers (i.e.-business, computer science (IT) ).

Dentistry is a stable, worthwhile career. nothing less...and nothing more as many predents fantasize it to be.
 
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dentalWorks

Nights Watchmen
7+ Year Member
Jun 25, 2009
5,646
158
Sterling Hts, Mi
Status
Dentist
Fresh right out of dental school, a first year dental student normally gets paid $98,000 on average. After 1-2 years, you normally talk with the dentist who hired you and would get around $120,000.

You also have to think about the income tax and everything.

Predental students have this idea that they will all be millionaires. If you look at the dentists in their 50-60s, of course some of them are millionaires. Dentists did very well in those times. Nowadays, there's much higher competition, dentists are retiring at a later age and of course, the big problem of large student debt that dentists didn't used to have.

The truth is, no one knows what will happen in dentistry in 10-20 years. There are projections (i.e.- dental industry will grow at an average level compared to other industries), but it's a projection...you can never really count on them. Physician demand is projected to grow at a higher level than the average, but at the same time, we don't know what's going to happen in medicine after healthcare reform, healthcare costs soaring, etc.
It's the same for dentistry. Orthodontics did well in 90s and early 2000, but nowdays, the income dropped, higher competition, not to mention, orthodontists retire at a much later age, since..yeah.

I think that if you look at just right now, dentistry is a stable career. It's not financially the best career. The return on investment-to-medicine ratio is, for example, higher than medicine, but it's lower than a lot of other careers (i.e.-business, computer science (IT) ). But we become dentists not just because of money. We, predentals, and premeds, all go into dentistry and medicine because of something else that's personally more important to us. The primary reason is treating patients.

I also get bothered when someone says dentists have potentially higher earning potential than physicians. They really don't. Yes dentists work 30-40 hrs a week, and theoretically if you worked more hours, you earn more, but the reality is that you cant. Well you can, but that doesnt mean working 60 hours will get you double the amount, because there's a time frame that most patients are available and that's when you are open. Physicians also have private practices, and yeah they earn a lot. I hear about private practicing oncologists racking up million dollars a year from physicians and residential chiefs, but that's just a story that you hear from someone. Just like, "I shadowed this dentist and he makes a million dollars" You have to think about it in terms of the population not on individual cases to predict how much you will make. Okay I digress, so I will stop here. sorry.

Dentistry is a stable, worthwhile career. nothing less...and nothing more as many predents fantasize it to be.
you seriously think a career in IT is more profitable than a career in healthcare (dentistry / medicine) .... can you plz recommend me to the weed your smoking
 

peanutb123

10+ Year Member
Sep 1, 2008
1,211
8
Status
Pre-Dental
I think that if you look at just right now, dentistry is a stable career. It's not financially the best career. The return on investment-to-medicine ratio is, for example, higher than medicine, but it's lower than a lot of other careers (i.e.-business, computer science (IT) ). But we become dentists not just because of money. We, predentals, and premeds, all go into dentistry and medicine because of something else that's personally more important to us. The primary reason is treating patients.

Both statements are false :)

IT used to be booming back in the day NOT ANYMORE...

If there is an IT job which does not require to be physically there, its outsourced. If you are in IT your life will be like snake and ladders game. When you try to climb the ladder to high, you will eventually get to snake and thats where the snake will take you to where you started.

Regarding money... dont want to start another huge bs thread there are tons of them in this forum just look for them, you will be surprised by the answers they gave.

To OP

Dont worry everything is gonna be ok :) You just have to delay your plans of buying a lambo to couple more years.
 
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Dec 1, 2010
18
0
Status
Pre-Dental
Both statements are false :)

IT used to be booming back in the day NOT ANYMORE...

If there is an IT job which does not require to be physically there, its outsourced. If you are in IT your life will be like snake and ladders game. When you try to climb the ladder to high, you will eventually get to snake and thats where the snake will take you to where you started.

Regarding money... dont want to start another huge bs thread there are tons of them in this forum just look for them, you will be surprised by the answers they gave.

To OP

Dont worry everything is gonna be ok :) You just have to delay your plans of buying a lambo to couple more years.
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