Something I don't get......

[brookliner7]

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No, my reason for considering osteopathic programs is because I want to be a physician. Period. End of story. I was just trying to think of a way to put a positive spin on the alleged differences that I don't believe are really significant any more and haven't been for over a decade (or more).

But thank you for being a condescending elitist Brooke.....that's so greatly appreciated!!

well, there is a difference between putting a "positive spin" on a profession and then comparing it to a counterpart in a condescending way.


If you just want to be a physician, and not an osteopathic physician, there are plenty of great non-osteopathic programs.
You could go ND and still be a doctor...period...end of story.
Are you applying to their programs?
Do some research...and if you really can't find some significant differences, I suggest you find some physicians that chose DO over MD, ND, etc, for a reason. They will probabaly have the best answers for you.

Just as you know why you are not applying to certain programs, you should know why you are applying to specific programs as well.
good luck👍

 

[SamaraMorgan]

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[deleted19731]

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[jkhamlin]

don't turn this into an md/do debate chris, dropkick is probably saying there are difference but not significant ones. you disagree? you think the two are so completely different that you have to justify choosing either one, as if one is better than the other?

Apparently you are not aware that the OP is one of the biggest MD vs DO trolls in SDN lately. Sure, he says he is applying DO just to increase his odds, but he is about as anti DO as they come.

 

[SamaraMorgan]

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[DropkickMurphy]

Apparently you are not aware that the OP is one of the biggest MD vs DO trolls in SDN lately. Sure, he says he is applying DO just to increase his odds, but he is about as anti DO as they come.

I am not an anti-DO troll anymore than you are an anti-MD troll. I just disagree with the commonly touted alleged differences. If I were a troll, I'd be bashing DO's as being inferior. I don't recall ever having done that. Quite the contrary, I've spoken up and indicated that a DO is equal to an MD when people have spoken up and attempted to malign osteopathy as being second rate.

 

[jkhamlin]

I am not an anti-DO troll anymore than you are an anti-MD troll. I just disagree with the commonly touted alleged differences. If I were a troll, I'd be bashing DO's as being inferior. I don't recall ever having done that. Quite the contrary, I've spoken up and indicated that a DO is equal to an MD when people have spoken up and attempted to malign osteopathy as being second rate.

You bash the very real differences. That is the same thing, except more insidious.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

You bash the very real differences. That is the same thing, except more insidious.

No, I just have stated I don't plan to use OMM and don't agree with your beliefs. Slight difference, but in your mind, I might as well have gone out and **** on A.T. Still's grave. I've decided that I can't change the minds of the OMM faithful, so if I wind up as an osteopathic physician, all I can do is do what I feel is the best for my patient and follow the standards of care. You all are welcome to do as you please. More power to you.

 

[SamaraMorgan]

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[DropkickMurphy]

You could go ND and still be a doctor...period...end of story.
Are you applying to their programs?

ND! That's rich! No, I want to be a real doc.....which means either MD or DO.

Do some research...and if you really can't find some significant differences, I suggest you find some physicians that chose DO over MD, ND, etc, for a reason. They will probabaly have the best answers for you.

Hmmm......ok....here are the highlights of what I was told when I did exactly what you asked (when I first started looking at DO programs and was curious about the differences"
From the DO emergency medicine attending I've know for almost 10 years:
"It doesn't really matter. I've not used OMM since I got out of school and have yet to see a difference between the way an osteopathic doctor treats a patient and how an MD treats a patient."

From a DO orthopedic surgeon I've known for a few years (and whose father is on the faculty at a DO school):
"There's no difference once you get past the admissions process. In actual practice there is nothing that seperates the majority of docs regardless."

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Why remove options that you could provide to your patient to improve their health?

If it truly works, then I will use it, which pretty much limits its definite, unrefuted utility to musculoskeletal problems. But it is just an adjunct to standard therapies (by the admission of JPHazelton who is probably the most knowledgable OMM guy on SDN).

 

[jkhamlin]

No, I just have stated I don't plan to use OMM and don't agree with your beliefs. Slight difference, but in your mind, I might as well have gone out and **** on A.T. Still's grave. I've decided that I can't change the minds of the OMM faithful, so if I wind up as an osteopathic physician, all I can do is do what I feel is the best for my patient and follow the standards of care. You all are welcome to do as you please. More power to you.

You started this thread didn't you? Under the guise of an innocent question, but really to troll the pre DO forum.

Actually, I don't hold beliefs about OMM, just evidence based facts. Besides, hasn't JP owned you several times over on this topic?

I really just view you as a willfully ignorant and very negative undergrad premed who will hopefully mature before he becomes a doctor... if that ever happens.

 

[SamaraMorgan]

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[DropkickMurphy]

You started this thread didn't you? Under the guise of an innocent question, but really to troll the pre DO forum.

I actually honestly don't understand why they ask the question. Hence the thread.

Besides, hasn't JP owned you several times over on this topic?

He has corrected me, yes. I believe he's a little more mature than my present company and has actually provided evidence (via PM) rather than acting like a 20-something MSI who doesn't have that much more education than I do, and most likely FAR less clinical experience than I.

I really just view you as a willfully ignorant and very negative undergrad premed who will hopefully mature before he becomes a doctor... if that ever happens.

I'm not going to make statements as to my maturity, since I have much the same opinion of you (immature, ignorant and negative) but I don't believe either one is fair since we can't really judge one another 100% accurately based off of these exchanges.

By the way, if you ever want to see "mature" debate, sign up for the Traumalist mailing list at www.trauma.org and bring up needle decompression of tension pneumothoraces. We'll see how mature all docs can be at time

 

[Ema]

I am just wondering guys...one day when, and if, you become doctors (either MD or DO) how will you interact with your colleagues??? Will you still be caught up in this kind of discussions? I am just wondering when is that turning point going to be when you guys figure out that... no one cares if u are DO or MD, as long as you are good doctor. Now, that will not come as easy as you think….especially to those who are stuck in a such mind set where they are feeling inferior and in need of justifying their decisions to go either route and don't take me wrong, I am not directing this at anyone in particular, its just a question for all of us.🙂

 

[DropkickMurphy]

no one cares if u are DO or MD, as long as you are good doctor

Exactly my point. I don't think anyone is inferior...... in fact, I see zero difference other than having to jump through the OMM hoop if one chooses the DO route.

 

[Ema]

Oh and If I may add... its funny to see that amost every question about DO related stuff turns into a war for no reason.

 

[czanetti]

I know its funny because it deals with two types of people those that do it bcs they like the slight distinction and those that wanted to be an MD but either didn't get accepted or don't think they would because of there stats so they rely on DO as a fall back hence choosing to down play the distinction as much as possible. It will happen over and over again bcs these two different students will butt heads. Even when there is a distinction it would depend on the individual to either maintain it or dissolve it when they become a professional. The reason why this ignites into a fight is because people can say what they want on here anonymously which leaves it open for the truth to come out.

 

[jkhamlin]

I am just wondering guys...one day when, and if, you become doctors (either MD or DO) how will you interact with your colleagues??? Will you still be caught up in this kind of discussions? I am just wondering when is that turning point going to be when you guys figure out that... no one cares if u are DO or MD, as long as you are good doctor. Now, that will not come as easy as you think….especially to those who are stuck in a such mind set where they are feeling inferior and in need of justifying their decisions to go either route and don't take me wrong, I am not directing this at anyone in particular, its just a question for all of us.🙂

Actually, there is a point to the difference that DKM refuses to see because it would end his trolling days over here.

You see, there are certain conditions where OMM is the least invasive and most effective treatment, hence better. Generally speaking, only DO's can do OMM, so they are the better one to see for these conditions. If you go to an MD, out of ego they won't refer you to someone who knows what they are doing, they merely do the only things they know how to do, and add to your problems instead of fixing them.

As for "nobody cares... as long as you are a good doctor..." You tell me who a patient expects to see when they don't care: The DO who is thoroughly trained to deal with all of your medical problems, or the MD who doesn't have all the training, but will take a stab (pun intended) at it anyway to protect his fragile ego and god complex? That's why I refuse to see MD's for anything other than the common cold.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

The DO who is thoroughly trained to deal with all of your medical problems, or the MD who doesn't have all the training, but will take a stab (pun intended) at it anyway to protect his fragile ego and god complex?

Now who is making broad generalizations that are troll like! 😉

 

[jkhamlin]

Now who is making broad generalizations that are troll like! 😉

I've seen it happen many times.

 

[DrBowtie]

I've seen it happen many times.

Plural of anecdote isn't fact either.

And please knock off the bickering. PM one another if you want to continue. 🙂

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Plural of anecdote isn't fact either.

Thank you.....you beat me to it.

 

[jkhamlin]

Plural of anecdote isn't fact either.

And please knock off the bickering. PM one another if you want to continue. 🙂

🙄 It's a sample.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Just as I'm sure I could find a sample that says that DO's, MD's, EMT's, etc, etc, etc are less capable in "X" situation, if I were so inclined to go out and pick and choose the members of said sample to suit my own preconceived notions.. I'm not so inclined and I don't seek out the negatives in the profession I have chosen- medicine....not osteopathic medicine, not allopathic medicine.....medicine.

 

[jkhamlin]

Just as I'm sure I could find a sample that says that DO's, MD's, EMT's, etc, etc, etc are less capable in "X" situation, if I were so inclined to go out and pick and choose the members of said sample to suit my own preconceived notions.. I'm not so inclined and I don't seek out the negatives in the profession I have chosen- medicine....not osteopathic medicine, not allopathic medicine.....medicine.

It's a random sample of all the DO's and MD's I have met through my life. Don't argue stats with me, you'll lose.

As for it being an anecdote, when you get older and hopefully mature, you will come to realize that every encounter with every patient matters and is more than just an anecdote. If a doctor mistreats a patient because his MD ego tells him he cannot be inferior to a DO, then this is a noteworthy incident, not an anecdote. In fact, the medical field has a term for it, they call it a sentinal event if it results in something bad, usually death, and they call it a misadventure if it results in anything else; lawyers also have a term for it, they call it malpractice. I have seen patients mistreated many times by MD's who were afraid to admit that they didn't have the necessary skill set to treat them. I have seen patients saved from unnecessary overmedication and invasive procedures, by heroic DO's who stepped in to save them. Have I seen good MD's? Yes. Have I seen bad DO's? Don't get me started on them. We are talking about people's lives and health here, not mere anecdotes. Hopefully you will learn that before you become a doctor of either kind. Unfortunately, many MD's haven't yet, but more and more are coming around.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

🙄 I do agree we're talking about lives at risk here, but to malign an entire group because of your experiences is no different than what you think I'm doing. That has been the point of my rebuttals to your points, because you seem to believe that DO's are superior to MD's because apparently they don't have egos (obviously you've never worked around DO surgeons for any extended period of time.....they are just like MD surgeons when it comes to ego). I think the two groups are equals as a whole. If you have a problem with people disagreeing with your view then you should not be so quick to label those who are not maligning your degree as being "anti-DO".

But that's right, I'm wrong because I don't think DO's are superior and it must be because I'm immature and inexperienced. By the way, just out of curiosity: How old are you?

 

[SamaraMorgan]

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[czanetti]

Give me a break put the quak watch BS away I would be more concerned about the 2 cultest groups running our country Democrats and Republicans. Atleast this profession has the initial intentions of saving others lives. Any group anywhere you can consider to a large extent as cultist this one just happens to have scientific support to back it up.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I agree....that was just uncalled for.

 

[MossPoh]

What's funny is 3/4 of our DO's in this area ARE orthopedic surgeons and the father of one of them is on the faculty at KCOM as an orthopod.

are they in terrible haute? Vincennes they are all MDs... tons of DOs but they are all radiology, cards, gi, em...stuff like that..no surgical fields.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Let's see......*grabs Terre Haute phone book*
DO's in my area
J. Bollenbacher- Orthopedics
G. Ulrich- Orthopedics
K. Madsen- Orthopedics
J. Stockrahm- Orthopedics (?)
J. Jackson- FP
J. Holder- Pediatrics
A. Morrow- FP
T. Alvey- FP resident
J. Bollinger- Orthopedics (I think)
Also there are 4 DO EM docs that I know of, and a DO anesthesiologist too.....

 

[SamaraMorgan]

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[JohnnyOU]

... I've worked around DO's for several years and they tend to be as sharp as anyone out there, and actually when it comes to assessment and problem solving skills they outshine their MD counterparts. ...

LOL
Keep telling yourself that 👍
😀

 

[JohnnyOU]

It's a random sample of all the DO's and MD's I have met through my life. Don't argue stats with me, you'll lose.

As for it being an anecdote, when you get older and hopefully mature, you will come to realize that every encounter with every patient matters and is more than just an anecdote. If a doctor mistreats a patient because his MD ego tells him he cannot be inferior to a DO, then this is a noteworthy incident, not an anecdote. In fact, the medical field has a term for it, they call it a sentinal event if it results in something bad, usually death, and they call it a misadventure if it results in anything else; lawyers also have a term for it, they call it malpractice. I have seen patients mistreated many times by MD's who were afraid to admit that they didn't have the necessary skill set to treat them. I have seen patients saved from unnecessary overmedication and invasive procedures, by heroic DO's who stepped in to save them. Have I seen good MD's? Yes. Have I seen bad DO's? Don't get me started on them. We are talking about people's lives and health here, not mere anecdotes. Hopefully you will learn that before you become a doctor of either kind. Unfortunately, many MD's haven't yet, but more and more are coming around.

HAHHAHAHA

I love listening you you DO schoolers trying desperately to overcompensate.
"MDs just pass out pills"
"DOs treat the whole person"
"DOs save patients from their unfeeling MDs"
LOL

There are sucky DO's and MD's....being a compassionate doctor is a personal decision and has nothing to do with what school you go to. You can't TEACH compassion or empathy.

 

[jkhamlin]

HAHHAHAHA

I love listening you you DO schoolers trying desperately to overcompensate.
"MDs just pass out pills"
"DOs treat the whole person"
"DOs save patients from their unfeeling MDs"
LOL

There are sucky DO's and MD's....being a compassionate doctor is a personal decision and has nothing to do with what school you go to. You can't TEACH compassion or empathy.

Perhaps you didn't notice that I pretty much said that in my previous post. 🙄

 

[toothless rufus]

There are great docs and terrible docs in both professions, of course! And no matter if one or the other had some amount of upperhand, no matter what, no matter how small, nobody would agree on it, lol! Most likely each has a some small advantage over the other is some particular. Everyone wants to feel good about themselves, their choice of degree, and everyone wants to feel that they are not second class citizens! Egos are fragile things, and apes crave status! And fling feces when they are slighted!