Sometime mathematician with snowballing interest in medicine

[InLocoAbsentia]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Dear non-traditional medical students to be and other wonderful persons,

I am currently working for a vendor to health care organizations, which was a lucky opportunity that appeared for me after I had a mid-life/end-of-college meltdown and decided not to go to graduate school. This meltdown occured both because of personal reasons and because I realized that, for one, you can't get a good job as a math professor these days and, for another, I didn't really want to be a professional physicist after all (I did physics for five years only to finally realize I was only in it for the math ). So I took this job, packed up, and moved to my current location. I coasted along for roughly a year, until one fateful meeting to plan a new project related to care for stroke patients. One part of this project dealt with carotid endarterectomies, and I did not know what these were at the time. I asked the nurse who was working with us on this project, and when she told me, I was at once mortified-you mean they actually slice open some poor sap's neck arteries to make him better off?!-and highly intrigued. From that point on, I made it a point to learn the clinical context behind whatever I was doing at the time. Now I know a wide range of bits and pieces, like what a pneumothorax is, why patients with ventilators are at a higher risk for pneumonia, what the saphenous vein is, and even how to take my own blood pressure (at least in theory; I haven't yet checked this with someone who is experienced).

I never explored medicine while in college because I was just so convinced I would be a professional scientist and because I heard that organic chemistry was the worst, most boring subject ever. I heard this usually from other physicists, but it didn't occur to me at the time that they might have had a very biased view of the subject. One day a couple of months ago, I opened up my freshman chemistry book to the organic chemistry chapter to see what this was all about. I know it's only a preview, but I learned that names of compounds can be determined by the systematic application of rules you can memorize and an occasional bit of cleverness, just like you can compute an integral by the systematic application of rules you can memorize and an occasional bit of cleverness.

I've got a killer undergrad GPA: 4.00 in science, 3.97 overall (damn Latin American civ class got me). I also do well on tests: 590V/790Q/5.0A on the GRE and 740 on the physics subject test (not that it matters for med school, but just for argument's sake). I have got general chemistry and physics down pat, but I need basic biology and the organic chemistry sequence. I've gone through the local college's course offerings, and I can finish both sequences by september (though I'll need to take the second lab class in the fall). I'd then matriculate into medical school just after turning 27 years old, with no spouse or family. Before anyone raises the question of "R U SHUR you want to medicine?", let me say that I am already working on arranging shadowing, and I have signed up to volunteer at my local hospital. I also have been on several trips to hospitals for work, and I am very into what I've seen so far.

So, here are my questions, dear forum:

1. I've heard that applying to school in September is too late. Can you all corroborate this?
2. Assuming I ace biology, organic chemsitry, and the MCAT (ace being a relative term in this context), can I get into a good medical school without any other biology classes?
3. I am also considering becoming a PA, mostly because I'll be done with residency at 31 instead of 34. Given my background (no other bio classes, no paid HCE), does anyone here feel strongly one way or the other for me? The difference seems huge to me in terms of starting a family, but I'm still "young", so what do I know?
4. Am I doing it wrong? That is, does this just sound like a total flight of fancy and that I just need to grow up and get over myself?

10^6 thanks in advance!

ila

P.S.: I posted a similar message over at PA Forum a couple of weeks ago, so EMEDPA is excused from needing to respond.

 

[Klemptor]

1. September is technically not too late, but the earlier the better. Here on SDN you will see skewed numbers in just about everything because SDN attracts the most neurotic pre-meds. This is why so many SDN people apply the very second AMCAS opens in early June. (Myself included - I'm not dissing anyone.) If you apply by the end of July you should be fine, in my opinion.

2. You need to get a copy of the MSAR (check out the AAMC's website) and look at the requirements for the med schools you're interested in. I believe that med schools generally want 8 semester hours of Bio (which is generally two four-hour [lab-bearing] Intro to Bio courses). I don't think many schools require courses like Genetics and Cell Structure. Of course, those are both really helpful for the MCAT, and you will see those subjects again in med school, but I imagine that with proper motivation and prep materials, you can teach yourself what you need to know for the MCAT.

3. I'm 27 and in the middle of applying right now. I don't think it's too late, and even if I don't get in this cycle and have to reapply for 2011, I still won't think it's too late. However, I'm already in a relationship and we have decided not to have children, so I have a different situation to yours in that respect. This is probably a more personal decision. But since you're not tied down, my advice is that you not hold back. Go for the MD, not the PA. 34 isn't a hell of a lot older than 31.

4. You're only doing it wrong when you let your doubts get to you. You're clearly bright and motivated, and you have an interesting story that will make for a great personal statement. So I say go for it!

Best of luck to you!

 

[sindadel]

1. It's not too late, but it's pretty late. You will probably get in somewhere, but you won't be giving it your best shot and you'll have a much more stressful application season. You should take the MCAT in May/June and apply ASAP after getting your MCAT back. Also, be prepared to handle secondaries expeditiously over the summer.

2. Absolutely.

3. I think this is a personal question, and from the perspective of 32, I don't think that 31 or 34 makes much of a difference. You don't and shouldn't stop living during the years you spend.

4. I think you have the capacity to put together a really good application and compelling story! Looking forward to your updates as time goes on. Make sure to have community service aspect and leadership in your app in addition to GPA/MCAT/clinical exposure.

 

[InLocoAbsentia]

I've done a bit more reading around the forums, and I have to say I'm now a bit more discouraged. If it does take a few months of concerted study to do well on the MCAT and if you have to take the June MCAT to be considered for the following Fall admission, it pushes my matriculation date out quite a while. I can't stop working right now, because I don't have enough saved. I can take one class a term while working, but this means that I won't have all of my outstand prereqs done until Spring 2010, by which time it will then be too late to take the June MCAT well enough. I could take the next couple of semester to maybe brush up my application and make it really good, but by then, it would be 2011, and I'd be 11, and I would be turning 28. This means that I would matriculate into school just after turning 29, and I wouldn't finish residency until almost the age of 36. If I were to do a fellowship, I'd then be in until 39. I think I want a family, but I'm not yet married or engaged. I don't think it is fair to say "Hey baby, I love you. Do you want to support me and our children by yourself for the next 10 years while I try to become a doctor?"

 

[beckhunter116]

I think you are a little to hung up on age and making a timeline that must be followed perfectly.

I think you could study for the MCAT along with class. You obviously have the physical science probably down. I was one of the few people (I guess) who really liked organic chemistry. It was so organized and easy to piece things together based on there family (alkane, alkene, alkyne, etc.).

People will do some crazy things for love so I don't think it is so far-fetched that someone would support their partner while pursueing there dream. I imagine you are a man, which makes things even easier as fertility will be less of an obsticle. If you are a woman, well things are more complicated for us, but there is no guarentees in life. You could do PA school on the hope of finding someone to settle down with and then find yourself single and not as happy being a PA.

You need to figure out which would make you happiest. Try to shadow both. I had planned on going to PA school, but there were too many fields that as a PA I really couldn't do much, so I decided that no matter my age I had to go all the way. If that means biologically I can't have children, I'll adopt. I'm happy with that. What can you be happy with?

Good luck!

 

[kia ora]

I think you are a little to hung up on age and making a timeline that must be followed perfectly.

+1

31 vs. 34...not a big deal. if you want to go to med school, don't let this be the reason you don't even try. besides, 34 is young (I'm older than you and I'm still young! I swear)

also, don't make your plans based on a relationship you're not even in! honestly, that's ridiculous. I'm moving to another state next year for med school and it is wreaking havoc on my personal life. but I'm doing it anyway.

I bet you will find that you like organic chemistry (it doesn't require math though; well, not much beyond counting carbons). it is very logical (mostly). I loved it.

I think if you do reasonably well on the mcat and are able in your app to articulate good reasons for your career change, you will have great success in getting into med school. best of luck to you!

 

[2010houston]

+1 on the studying for the MCAT while taking classes stuff. You clearly know what you're doing school-wise, so this is something you'll be able to do, most likely - and if you're taking practice tests and simply not getting anywhere near the scores you want, you can cross that bridge when you come to it.

Do buy a good biology text - Campbells is what a lot of people use - and you can just start reading / skimming through it starting now, skipping all the plants & lower animals stuff, and that will be good prep too. if you're just chomping at the bit to get started ;-) I know it sounds terribly thrilling.

People have kids all the time while in med school. Easy, definitely not. Doable, definitely. It's hard to base a decision on future events that may or may not happen...so you might as well go for what you want now.

Good luck to you!!

 

[bradt9881]

The next PA cycle you can realistically apply for opens 1 May for the fall 2011. PA will require heath care experience to be competititve as well, which you will have to find by volunteering or working in direct patient care.

Age won't matter for MD or PA in your case. I entered PA school at 48 because that was the best option for me (paying loans back and drawing social security is not smart). You really need to do what makes you happy, and it sounds like MD is your road to happiness.

Good luck!

 

[InLocoAbsentia]

So I know I can get all of this done by the summer, but if I take classes in the Spring and Fall, I would be able to finish both parts of the bio/organic sequence in Spring 2011; I would need to stop work in order to do this. If I can indeed do the MCAT without devoting an entire semester to studying, this means that I would be able to apply for matriculation for Fall 2012, which then means getting done with residency at 35. It also means waiting one less year to get started (three instead of four).

Other comments about family plans make a good point about putting the cart before the horse. Trying to have children before having a wife (I am a male) is doing it backwards. However, med school and residency seems to lower the chance of having a good relationship. But then, our preferences are revealed, aren't they?

 

[2010houston]

Also remember, if it helps, that the prereqs have to be done before you START, not necessarily before you apply. So you could do the chem and bio labs, conceivably, in the summer that you're applying or even in the year between application and matriculation. Although these are definitely useful for the MCAT, I would not feel like you NEED to take them before you take the MCAT - especially if you're someone who can understand things from reading about them rather than doing them.

 

[EdLongshanks]

So I know I can get all of this done by the summer, but if I take classes in the Spring and Fall, I would be able to finish both parts of the bio/organic sequence in Spring 2011; I would need to stop work in order to do this. If I can indeed do the MCAT without devoting an entire semester to studying, this means that I would be able to apply for matriculation for Fall 2012, which then means getting done with residency at 35. It also means waiting one less year to get started (three instead of four).

Your hurry appears a little immature. Come on, we are going to be doctors for decades. In fact, by the time that you are my age, you WILL have been a doctor for over a decade. Stop acting like twelve months is that important.

 

[taciturngirl]

.

 

[riverjib]

So I know I can get all of this done by the summer, but if I take classes in the Spring and Fall, I would be able to finish both parts of the bio/organic sequence in Spring 2011; I would need to stop work in order to do this. If I can indeed do the MCAT without devoting an entire semester to studying, this means that I would be able to apply for matriculation for Fall 2012, which then means getting done with residency at 35. It also means waiting one less year to get started (three instead of four).

Other comments about family plans make a good point about putting the cart before the horse. Trying to have children before having a wife (I am a male) is doing it backwards. However, med school and residency seems to lower the chance of having a good relationship. But then, our preferences are revealed, aren't they?

You're being completely realistic, and I admire that. I'm in a similar situation, but I'll be older than you...and I'm a female. Let's face it, you can start a family later than I can. You need to keep being realistic, and find a partner that is completely supportive of your goals.

My fiance and I are getting married in 2011, after he finishes his masters as a PA, and just before I (hopefully) matriculate as a medical student. Based upon what I've learned from friends who are physicians and parents, I think it'll be realistic for me to have my first child when I'm an M3, and my second during residency. That plan will likely change as life rolls on, but I'm hopeful.

Keep considering what really matters to you. Medicine is one of the least forgiving fields for someone who prioritizes family life, but it's not as unforgiving as you might think. You can make it work. It might mean choosing a different specialty than you think you want to pursue, and it will most likely mean that you will not be the top physician in whatever field you pursue...but that's true of anything you pursue. You can be the best at something, or you can be good at a lot of things, depending how you shift your priorities.

Go for it! But keep thinking very seriously about what matters most to you.

 

[ForrestG]

.