Somewhat Frustrated

[joshyabs]

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Hey everyone! I love this site and all the advice you guys have given in the past. I just wanted to take a little time to speak about my frustration at my current situation, which of course, is my fault.

I originally posted my full story here (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=994856) , but the short version is that I started college at Georgia State University 10 years ago and failed miserably (1.08 GPA/48 credit hours). This was partially due to financial situation (worked full time job and at the church), immaturity, and a few other things. After a couple of years there, I left and joined the military. After which, I began school again at a community college.

Fast forward 10 years (after doing six years in the military), i have made only As and a few Bs bringing my GPA up to a 2.29. Thanks to the AMCAS excel spreadsheet by johnny eguizabal, I can enter future grades. If I were to do straight As through 20 credit hours during my sophomore and junior years, and 9 credits in the summer in between, I would bring my GPA to a 3.04 🙁

I went to the UC Berkeley to discuss my progress, and the adviser stated I showed great improvement by making nothing but As and Bs. For my ECs, I told her that I had done volunteering in the ER at Bremerton Naval Hospital, a few Joshua House projects, and volunteer work at a senior citizens home. She told me that even though I had done all this, it was likely that I would not get in because molecular and cell biology is very difficult, but "don't be discouraged, etc, etc..." Needless to say, my heart sank. As if getting into an MD school wasn't hard enough, now my progress into a 4-year is in question, even with my sharp turn around in grades!

While i clearly made mistakes in the past, I find it rather disturbing that those past events make it nearly impossible to bring my GPA top a 3.1. I wish I had known this in Georgia, then I would have certainly at least dropped them. I always felt I could just restart after the military. Nope! The fact that medical schools look at all your grades, no matter how far back, greatly impedes any forward success. 10 years is a long time, and now I will have to do school for more than half of that just for a chance...

Needless to say, I am extremely down. I have nothing to do left but to accept everything the way it is and move on. All i know is that I have to be a doctor at any cost. I'm starting my organic chem and physics series this fall, and I am already studying during my last 4 weeks of summer thanks to Itunes U and some other source materials. So, I'll just continue making As (working hard to eliminate Bs) during my 19 credit hours a semester, with 9 credits each summer, indefinitely. Ill do this until, after turning in x number applications, someone notices me, and invites me for a talk, then accepts me. Thanks for reading.

 

[Spitphire]

You should also try Khanacademy if you're wanting to study orgo and physics. Their videos are really good imo. Good luck man!

 

[Entadus]

Hey everyone! I love this site and all the advice you guys have given in the past. I just wanted to take a little time to speak about my frustration at my current situation, which of course, is my fault.

I originally posted my full story here (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=994856) , but the short version is that I started college at Georgia State University 10 years ago and failed miserably (1.08 GPA/48 credit hours). This was partially due to financial situation (worked full time job and at the church), immaturity, and a few other things. After a couple of years there, I left and joined the military. After which, I began school again at a community college.

Fast forward 10 years (after doing six years in the military), i have made only As and a few Bs bringing my GPA up to a 2.29. Thanks to the AMCAS excel spreadsheet by johnny eguizabal, I can enter future grades. If I were to do straight As through 20 credit hours during my sophomore and junior years, and 9 credits in the summer in between, I would bring my GPA to a 3.04 🙁

I went to the UC Berkeley to discuss my progress, and the adviser stated I showed great improvement by making nothing but As and Bs. For my ECs, I told her that I had done volunteering in the ER at Bremerton Naval Hospital, a few Joshua House projects, and volunteer work at a senior citizens home. She told me that even though I had done all this, it was likely that I would not get in because molecular and cell biology is very difficult, but "don't be discouraged, etc, etc..." Needless to say, my heart sank. As if getting into an MD school wasn't hard enough, now my progress into a 4-year is in question, even with my sharp turn around in grades!

While i clearly made mistakes in the past, I find it rather disturbing that those past events make it nearly impossible to bring my GPA top a 3.1. I wish I had known this in Georgia, then I would have certainly at least dropped them. I always felt I could just restart after the military. Nope! The fact that medical schools look at all your grades, no matter how far back, greatly impedes any forward success. 10 years is a long time, and now I will have to do school for more than half of that just for a chance...

Needless to say, I am extremely down. I have nothing to do left but to accept everything the way it is and move on. All i know is that I have to be a doctor at any cost. I'm starting my organic chem and physics series this fall, and I am already studying during my last 4 weeks of summer thanks to Itunes U and some other source materials. So, I'll just continue making As (working hard to eliminate Bs) during my 19 credit hours a semester, with 9 credits each summer. Ill do this until, after turning in x number applications, someone notices me, and invites me for a talk, then accepts me. Thanks for reading.

Have you considered going for D.O. using their grade replacement policy? At this point MD is going to be a verryyy long road, and will never be highly likely.

 

[joshyabs]

Thanks for the suggestions! I do use Khan Academy from time to time, but I am mostly using Youtube because it has organic chem classes from UC Irvine. Also, I am using the physics courses from Yale.

As for going DO, I am considering it, but only as a last resort. After studying their differences, I feel that going MD is by far the best option because I am hoping to go into surgery. Neurosurgy and Cardiothoracic surgery are not too common with DO. After speaking with a surgeon about it, he also felt that going DO wasn't the best option.

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Were you in a medical rate in the Navy? If so, you might be able to easily slide into one of the PA programs aimed at vets or people with previous clinical experience. Not so terrible once you read this: http://benbrownmd.wordpress.com

Get A's in the rest of your classes, apply DO and MD, and hope someone has mercy on you. Your military experience will be a big boost, but only if you crush all of your classes and post a competitive MCAT. Good luck!

 

[physguy]

Check out this thread
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=675835

There's people in there with worse gpa than you'll have if you keep your grades up that rocked the MCAT and got multiple offers.

Also I know people who hang around undergrad 5 years just for the hell of it. Another year of A's while you're exploring your love for medieval art might give your gpa a boost.

 

[joshyabs]

Were you in a medical rate in the Navy? If so, you might be able to easily slide into one of the PA programs aimed at vets or people with previous clinical experience. Not so terrible once you read this: http://benbrownmd.wordpress.com

Get A's in the rest of your classes, apply DO and MD, and hope someone has mercy on you. Your military experience will be a big boost, but only if you crush all of your classes and post a competitive MCAT. Good luck!

Thanks Mt.

I was actually a FC (I know, it's a totally different field). As for the MCAT, I have already begun studying. By the end of this year, I will finish org chem II and physics II (on my own time) while taking the first part of the series. Next year, I will do two MCAT practice exams every weekend (Saturday and Sunday) because I want to take them by the end of next year before the 2015 changes. That should be about 90 times! I have about 10 practice tests on hand, and I am always looking for more. Thanks a lot for the suggestion!

 

[joshyabs]

Check out this thread
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=675835

There's people in there with worse gpa than you'll have if you keep your grades up that rocked the MCAT and got multiple offers.

Also I know people who hang around undergrad 5 years just for the hell of it. Another year of A's while you're exploring your love for medieval art might give your gpa a boost.

Thanks a lot physguy! LOL, I have always been interested in photography and computer animations. Perhaps I'll do some courses in those during the fifth year.

I just don't want to think it might end up like this: "Congratulations on finally making your GPA a 3.3 during the past 10 years. Welcome to the class of 2023"

 

[kdangg4]

I admire your determination. If you really want to be a doctor, I agree with the other. Try Caribbean schools or DO schools.

 

[joshyabs]

I admire your determination. If you really want to be a doctor, I agree with the other. Try Caribbean schools or DO schools.

Thanks kdangg. I will definitely continue to work hard. I think I would prefer the Carribean schools to DO, but I will see what a couple of years of straight As, research, and shadowing will do for me first. I might try Canada as well.

 

[OhHey]

Just make sure you apply to both MD and DO schools. And maybe ur the type that should do an SMP... one like at EVMS that gives you a better chance at getting into their own med school.

 

[DokterMom]

Some states also have an 'Academic Fresh Start' -- I know TX does -- where they actually erase OLD grades after 10 years or so. Don't know how much you have invested so far and how tied to your location you are, but TX is a great state to be a resident of if you plan to go to medical school.

Some other states may have it also -- Worth a serious look.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Thanks kdangg. I will definitely continue to work hard. I think I would prefer the Carribean schools to DO, but I will see what a couple of years of straight As, research, and shadowing will do for me first. I might try Canada as well.

DO schools have many general surgery programs (who knows, you might not even want to become a surgeon 5+ years down the line). If you go Caribbean, you will be considered an IMG for the purposes of residency applications and your chances of landing any kind of surgery position - much less neurosurgery - is far, far lower than if you just go DO. You'll essentially be competing with MDs from top US schools for one for one of the most competitive residencies out there.

As you've already calculated, you'll be applying to MD schools with a GPA of ~3.0 if you get nothing but As from now on, but if you applied DO (they love non-trads) your GPA would probably be around 3.5 because of their grade replacement policy. Not only that, but DO residency programs are for DO students ONLY meaning you wouldn't be competing with MD students.

That decision is irrelevant right now though. I would just focus on transferring into a 4-year school and retaking any classes you failed originally. Also, make sure you leave some pre-reqs or upper division sciences for your time there - don't cram in all your prereqs at a CC.

 

[Mr Avante]

1. Pray to God, cross fingers...
2. Complete the coursework.
3. Apply to a U.S. Medical Institution.

• No carib. No international. No PR.

4. Thank me later.

I forgot: Come back and make a thread under Non-trad forums.

 

[joshyabs]

Thanks a lot for the advice everyone. That is the best thing about the site. Real advice, in real time...

Just make sure you apply to both MD and DO schools. And maybe ur the type that should do an SMP... one like at EVMS that gives you a better chance at getting into their own med school.

I will definitely consider this. I think I was worried about taking SMP vs Post Bacc as far as GPA, but if I can find one that offers a higher chance for getting into a school (particularly in California), I'll take it!

Some states also have an 'Academic Fresh Start' -- I know TX does -- where they actually erase OLD grades after 10 years or so. Don't know how much you have invested so far and how tied to your location you are, but TX is a great state to be a resident of if you plan to go to medical school.

Some other states may have it also -- Worth a serious look.

I have read about this recently, however, I am somewhat too far along to restart unfortunately. Also, my living conditions somewhat confine me to California for now, but thank you very much for the advice.

DO schools have many general surgery programs (who knows, you might not even want to become a surgeon 5+ years down the line). If you go Caribbean, you will be considered an IMG for the purposes of residency applications and your chances of landing any kind of surgery position - much less neurosurgery - is far, far lower than if you just go DO. You'll essentially be competing with MDs from top US schools for one for one of the most competitive residencies out there.

As you've already calculated, you'll be applying to MD schools with a GPA of ~3.0 if you get nothing but As from now on, but if you applied DO (they love non-trads) your GPA would probably be around 3.5 because of their grade replacement policy. Not only that, but DO residency programs are for DO students ONLY meaning you wouldn't be competing with MD students.

That decision is irrelevant right now though. I would just focus on transferring into a 4-year school and retaking any classes you failed originally. Also, make sure you leave some pre-reqs or upper division sciences for your time there - don't cram in all your prereqs at a CC.

I will do some more research into DO programs. I've been researching the ideology from which it was based, and I don't particularly agree with all its history. However, I have been informed that the programs have grown quite similar, and the practice of medical care is in most cases the same.

I agree with you though that I should definitely focus on the present. I am working hard on my organic chem, physics, and microbiology studies in the few weeks of summer I have left. By the time I start the classes in the fall, it should be like a review (Thanks to UC Irvine and Yale classes on youtube). I will just work on making all As until I have been accepted!

1. Pray to God, cross fingers...
2. Complete the coursework.
3. Apply to a U.S. Medical Institution.

• No carib. No international. No PR.

4. Thank me later.

I forgot: Come back and make a thread under Non-trad forums.

I have spent some time looking at the caribbean school forum and researching the general opinions. The more I look into them, the more I am certain it is not the way to go. I'm still relatively new here, what is PR?

I will post my plans on the Non-trad forum soon 🙂

 

[Toss]

I have spent some time looking at the caribbean school forum and researching the general opinions. The more I look into them, the more I am certain it is not the way to go. I'm still relatively new here, what is PR?

Puerto Rico (which is actually on the same playing field as US medical schools because of LCME accreditation)

 

[joshyabs]

I see. Now that you mention it (PR = Puerto Rico), it should have been obvious lol. I'll look into it. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I am gunning for having MD attached to my name. I guess I'll just have to see how it all plays out...

 

[LuciusVorenus]

I will do some more research into DO programs. I've been researching the ideology from which it was based, and I don't particularly agree with all its history. However, I have been informed that the programs have grown quite similar, and the practice of medical care is in most cases the same.

I agree with you though that I should definitely focus on the present. I am working hard on my organic chem, physics, and microbiology studies in the few weeks of summer I have left. By the time I start the classes in the fall, it should be like a review (Thanks to UC Irvine and Yale classes on youtube). I will just work on making all As until I have been accepted!

If you're in California, Western is one of the top DO schools in the country and it's right in Pomona. DO schools used to stress the differences more, but ever since their legal battles with the AMA in the 1960s/1970s their training is pretty much the same as MD schools. (This wiki does a good job of highlighting the differences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_MD_and_DO_in_the_United_States)

Here's Western's match list from 2011. Obviously as a DO school they train their fair share of IM/FM, but you can see they do train specialists as well (including two neurosurgeons!) and even get their fair share of residents into competitive MD residencies (UCLA, UCSF, USC, etc) http://prospective.westernu.edu/assets/prospective/osteopathic/comp-potential-residency-sites.pdf

Also, I think within a year or two from now DO residencies will become accredited by the ACGME like their MD counterparts (rather than the AOA), meaning the two will pretty much become completely equivalent in training at the post-graduate level (http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PDFs/10-24-2012PressRelease.pdf)

Interesting side note, UCI actually used to be a DO school but converted over to MD in the 70s.

 

[Mr Avante]

what is PR?

Puerto Rico

 

[joshyabs]

If you're in California, Western is one of the top DO schools in the country and it's right in Pomona. DO schools used to stress the differences more, but ever since their legal battles with the AMA in the 1960s/1970s their training is pretty much the same as MD schools. (This wiki does a good job of highlighting the differences http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_MD_and_DO_in_the_United_States)

Here's Western's match list from 2011. Obviously as a DO school they train their fair share of IM/FM, but you can see they do train specialists as well (including two neurosurgeons!) and even get their fair share of residents into competitive MD residencies (UCLA, UCSF, USC, etc) http://prospective.westernu.edu/assets/prospective/osteopathic/comp-potential-residency-sites.pdf

Also, I think within a year or two from now DO residencies will become accredited by the ACGME like their MD counterparts (rather than the AOA), meaning the two will pretty much become completely equivalent in training at the post-graduate level (http://www.acgme.org/acgmeweb/Portals/0/PDFs/10-24-2012PressRelease.pdf)

Interesting side note, UCI actually used to be a DO school but converted over to MD in the 70s.

Wow! Thanks so much for the information!! I had no idea they were working towards a unified accreditation!! I will definitely keep watch over that before I apply.

 

[gyngyn]

Wow! Thanks so much for the information!! I had no idea they were working towards a unified accreditation!! I will definitely keep watch over that before I apply.

Sorry, that single accreditation didn't work out.

 

[joshyabs]

That's too bad. According to the website though, they will keep working towards agreeing over the next few weeks... I hope it will eventually lead that way, but who knows.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

Sorry, that single accreditation didn't work out.

Aw. What happened?

 

[Mr Avante]

Aw. What happened?

Bureaucracy happened.