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In recent times, I've been to doctors and see that it looks rather stimulating, getting to talk to interesting people sometimes, not just do Excel/Bloomberg stuff, and make legit money on a stable and dependable basis. I also find the pharmaceutical side fascinating, how such physically simple appearing things can do such complex and crazy things. Memorize/regurgitate is pretty much what I do anyway here. Many of the HW and test problems are recycled with formulas and situations one can just remember from the sample quizzes/tests. Tho there is a lot of analytics and several formulas for the same output and a ton of stats I need to know.My only advice is to shadow some physicians in different settings if you haven't done so already. Make sure its an undertaking you are willing to take. The job and lifestyle is not without its drawbacks (major ones) like time and stress. There's a recent article in The Atlantic titled 'Doctors Tell All--and It's Bad. It talks about the rampant dissatisfaction among doctors today in how they practice medicine in the current healthcare environment. They are overworked have to see more patients than ever and don't feel they are providing quality care based on The time constraints and paperwork. I don't mean to discourage you but just make sure to do your research before dishing out money for a postbacc. I think your math background shows you can easily handle primed coursework. Its lot of memorization and regurgitation, this is boring to a lot of people and I hear the first 2 years of medschool can be boring as well for the same reasons. Look up free courses online to see if its something you would like or be good at. Also, why the switch from math/finance? Is it mainly worry about job stability ? If that's the main reason I would consider PA school as well, only 2 years, good pay (ER PA friend makes $130k) and very stable. Also if your heart lies in Ploy Sci have you considered an MPH in Health Policy or dual with a JD? By the way what's your masters in? Is it Quant Finance or Financial Engineering? My bro is pursuing that and loves to trade as well. Sounds like an interesting field.
graduated undergrad less than 3 years ago, and I'm currently getting an advanced business degree in a quantitative field (not an MBA but still a degree for which I had to take the GMAT and potentially get rejected at). After college I was a trader shortly, and then tried to get hired in other parts of the industry thereafter. I got interviews but no jobs. I did get above 600 on the math SAT (total M:640 V:730 W:690). I went to a mediocre undergrad, studied poli sci, really wanted to work in a think-tank but the schools' brand name was not enough. I got a 3.4 there, with a 3.8 in my major. I also had a leadership role in a political club I helped start. I also wrote for the yearbook and was in a frat.
Admittedly, I shied away from math because in HS, altho I was great at it until 11th grade, I became a lot better at writing and history/politics. My 11th grade teacher was terrible, and math, being the bridge it seemed to be, started to crumble for me. But now, seeing how much math I'm having to go back and learn here (and this is a very strong school I'm at, its dope at engineering/stats/computer science), I feel like if I can get this stuff down, shouldn't I be able to do well in sciences if I apply myself?
I'm scared I'll either have trouble getting a job in finance/consulting, or whatever I get won't last too long. I'm doing alright here but nowhere near the top of my class. Job security scares me, or lack thereof. Assuming I can learn all the stuff (minus trig) up to and from Calc I and II, how much of a challenge would I have (both conceptually and tactically) would I have with a premed curriculum? My current degree in process is nearly entirely math-based, and I've proven my liberal arts mettle. Also, I do like to feel good about myself. I love giving advice to people and it working. I also have a passion for fighting obesity: I'm normally in shape but I've been fat at times but reversed it with diet and exercise. I'd like to do bariatrics or pulmonary.
If I were to do post-bac premed, would I have a chance getting in there given my background? And if I got thru that, could I get into an American medical school for MD? Money isn't an object for me: and if it were, given that I'd rather be making a garnished salary than no salary, the choice is obvious if it were.
I know its a keyboardful, but thanks.
Look for post-bac with linkages to medical school, lol. But I think those require significant ECs to apply.graduated undergrad less than 3 years ago, and I'm currently getting an advanced business degree in a quantitative field (not an MBA but still a degree for which I had to take the GMAT and potentially get rejected at). After college I was a trader shortly, and then tried to get hired in other parts of the industry thereafter. I got interviews but no jobs. I did get above 600 on the math SAT (total M:640 V:730 W:690). I went to a mediocre undergrad, studied poli sci, really wanted to work in a think-tank but the schools' brand name was not enough. I got a 3.4 there, with a 3.8 in my major. I also had a leadership role in a political club I helped start. I also wrote for the yearbook and was in a frat.
Admittedly, I shied away from math because in HS, altho I was great at it until 11th grade, I became a lot better at writing and history/politics. My 11th grade teacher was terrible, and math, being the bridge it seemed to be, started to crumble for me. But now, seeing how much math I'm having to go back and learn here (and this is a very strong school I'm at, its dope at engineering/stats/computer science), I feel like if I can get this stuff down, shouldn't I be able to do well in sciences if I apply myself?
I'm scared I'll either have trouble getting a job in finance/consulting, or whatever I get won't last too long. I'm doing alright here but nowhere near the top of my class. Job security scares me, or lack thereof. Assuming I can learn all the stuff (minus trig) up to and from Calc I and II, how much of a challenge would I have (both conceptually and tactically) would I have with a premed curriculum? My current degree in process is nearly entirely math-based, and I've proven my liberal arts mettle. Also, I do like to feel good about myself. I love giving advice to people and it working. I also have a passion for fighting obesity: I'm normally in shape but I've been fat at times but reversed it with diet and exercise. I'd like to do bariatrics or pulmonary.
If I were to do post-bac premed, would I have a chance getting in there given my background? And if I got thru that, could I get into an American medical school for MD? Money isn't an object for me: and if it were, given that I'd rather be making a garnished salary than no salary, the choice is obvious if it were.
I know its a keyboardful, but thanks.
Not that entry level accountants and non-IBD finance workers (middle and back office) guys make anymore. Nor does ANYONE in finance get treated any better. Not everyone who "works on Wall Street" is an "investment banking/private equity/hedge fund analyst." Getting those positions is probably as hard as getting into med school itself, assuming both have success rates (job offers and US MD program acceptances) of less than 10% company/school.Just think: 1-2 years of a $50K post-bacc, 2-5 months lost to MCAT studying, 4 years MD school ($240-$400K debt) where you are emotionally & mentally abused. 3-5 years of 80hr (min) work weeks as a resident where you make $50K (maybe) and get pooped/peed/vomitted/bled on. Also, it is 3-5 years of further emotional abuse.
I would like to be a doctor. Until now tho, I seriously doubted my math skills to get into med school, and thus to be one. I wasn't in accelerated in high school, should've failed calc I but the prof gave B as the minimum freshman year, and avoided all math except a few econ things in college. Therefore, naturally I thought I should avoid it. I thought finance was my out (utterly erroneously), relative to medicine and engineering and law has and had no career prospects. I actually did used to shadow a doctor a lot when I was really young: a certain relative (tho he was a piss poor example of both a doctor and a human being). But seeing how much math I have to learn, I've already learned a TON of statistics and relearned a lot of calculus (including some new materal, linear, etc.), so I imagine that if I can get this down, I figure physics should be similar to the math I'm doing, and bio should be memorize/regurgitate. Chem may be harder.Ronald, you have to want to be a doctor to succeed in the training; you don't have to articulate it here and now, it is a personal reason - some would say a calling - but you should [eventually] be able to justify to yourself why helping others has meaning for you. I would introspect about your personal motivation, drive, purpose, reason that you want to pursue the self-sacrificing life-commitment of medicine. Shadowing doctors, or speaking with them may help you better understand yourself. Volunteering is another experience that will help you learn about your motivations.
The lack of job security in finance is a very poor reason to pursue medical training.
Well it does seem that a lot of semi-smart (read: nowhere near as smart as doctors, dentists, scientists, petroleum engineers, etc.) meatheads, athlete types work on Wall Street so I figured that if I'm as smart as them, I could too. I'm surviving tho here. Obviously I know the adcom wants to hear "I am fulfilled most when I make a positive profound and lasting difference in the lives of other human beings, especially in the things I don't see that they can do because I gave them the right treatment," etc. or things like "I'm amazed by seeing how the tiny molecules/ions/etc. in drugs can change human lives and history." Finance hours except for quants (algo traders, professional economics) are not much better than doctors. How many residents have jumped out of hospitals like the Bank of America intern last year? I like dentistry too, and I did well on those 3d images I looked at from the DAT, tho I hear the rest is almost identical to MCAT. I really do like making a positive impact on things, helping others, and going to sleep at night knowing I'm making the world a better place.So you thought you were poor at math so you went into...finance??? Umm.....what?
You may scoff at those who mention medicine being a calling, but my friend, if you are not 100% committed then there is no way you will make it through years of 80 hour weeks and maximum of 4 days off a month only to land in a profession with falling reimbursement, increased unemployment, and one of the higher suicide and divorce rates among all professions.
Only you can ultimately make the decision about your career but you would be well served to listen to the advice of the wiser minds here, do your research and make sure you are committed to this course of action. You are 26 and have plenty of time to educate yourself. Pharm school, dentistry, pathology assistant, HVAC (not kidding) etc... are all jobs you should be looking at if you are just looking for a stable career.
And at least develop a better story than financial security, respect, adoration of the opposite sex, etc... because no adcom will buy that.
- chooks
How many residents have jumped out of hospitals like the Bank of America intern last year?
Also there's less prestige in being a PA. You're one step above a nurse. And for finding a wife worth talking about, that does kind of matter.
Your extracurricular activities look fine, although you might want to get in some volunteer hours at something medical-related. They want to see an ongoing commitment to service, and it looks like you were fine in undergrad, but I don't know what you've done since then.ok also, how do the extracurrics look? I have a political club I helped start and was president of at ugrad, joined a startup frat, was in my major's honor society, and interned at a consulting internship and held a job trading before now.
Also, does anyone know a good way to relearn all the trig, imaginary numbers, and limits I've forgotten? I've relearned derivatives and integrals (still putting finishing work on the by-parts method but u-sub is dick easy). Also, will they care about GMAT scores? My verbal was mid 80% percentiles but my math back then (almost a year ago) was a factor of that. Or does that depend on the MCAT.
I know earlier it looked like I want to do this solely for money and job security. While I would be a sanctimonious dick to deny those as factors, I do want a career in which I can proactively make a positive difference in people's lives (as opposed to some bs "we take away price inefficiencies"), feel good about both myself and what I do, interact with people more than Excel, and learn new things.
Hmm..if I should get hired in a healthcare company, like finance/accounting for that, or do IB covering healthcare (the drug industry is really interesting, I just did a presentation on it), does that help?Your extracurricular activities look fine, although you might want to get in some volunteer hours at something medical-related. They want to see an ongoing commitment to service, and it looks like you were fine in undergrad, but I don't know what you've done since then...They want it to be a calling, like firefighter, priests, etc; not a business decision. Starting at the bottom of the ladder all over again isn't for everyone, especially when you'll be treated the exact same as someone who has no life experience outside school; so think long and hard before committing.
Hmm..if I should get hired in a healthcare company, like finance/accounting for that, or do IB covering healthcare (the drug industry is really interesting, I just did a presentation on it), does that help?
how about with a medical group (ie I could be witnessing patients and doctors' comings and goings, etc. I also plan on getting a CFA in the near future. Like an in-house auditor or financial analyst, that kind of thing. Seeing as being in private practice is almost like either running a business (if ur solo, tho thats kinda passe) or in a group (like a partnership, etc.) I would say its probably a good thing to know business.Uh, no. Not really. Think big amount of direct, clinical exposure.
how about with a medical group (ie I could be witnessing patients and doctors' comings and goings, etc. I also plan on getting a CFA in the near future. Like an in-house auditor or financial analyst, that kind of thing. Seeing as being in private practice is almost like either running a business (if ur solo, tho thats kinda passe) or in a group (like a partnership, etc.) I would say its probably a good thing to know business.
If you get a gig doing the books for a practice (single provider or group) you could at most see the doc for maybe 10 minutes during the day, and that would be at lunch when s/he won't want to talk about cases. You wouldn't see patients at all, unless your doing double duty as a receptionist or something's off with their billing, and they won't want to talk medicine then either.how about with a medical group (ie I could be witnessing patients and doctors' comings and goings, etc. I also plan on getting a CFA in the near future. Like an in-house auditor or financial analyst, that kind of thing. Seeing as being in private practice is almost like either running a business (if ur solo, tho thats kinda passe) or in a group (like a partnership, etc.) I would say its probably a good thing to know business.
graduated undergrad less than 3 years ago, and I'm currently getting an advanced business degree in a quantitative field (not an MBA but still a degree for which I had to take the GMAT and potentially get rejected at). After college I was a trader shortly, and then tried to get hired in other parts of the industry thereafter. I got interviews but no jobs. I did get above 600 on the math SAT (total M:640 V:730 W:690). I went to a mediocre undergrad, studied poli sci, really wanted to work in a think-tank but the schools' brand name was not enough. I got a 3.4 there, with a 3.8 in my major. I also had a leadership role in a political club I helped start. I also wrote for the yearbook and was in a frat.
Admittedly, I shied away from math because in HS, altho I was great at it until 11th grade, I became a lot better at writing and history/politics. My 11th grade teacher was terrible, and math, being the bridge it seemed to be, started to crumble for me. But now, seeing how much math I'm having to go back and learn here (and this is a very strong school I'm at, its dope at engineering/stats/computer science), I feel like if I can get this stuff down, shouldn't I be able to do well in sciences if I apply myself?
I'm scared I'll either have trouble getting a job in finance/consulting, or whatever I get won't last too long. I'm doing alright here but nowhere near the top of my class. Job security scares me, or lack thereof. Assuming I can learn all the stuff (minus trig) up to and from Calc I and II, how much of a challenge would I have (both conceptually and tactically) would I have with a premed curriculum? My current degree in process is nearly entirely math-based, and I've proven my liberal arts mettle. Also, I do like to feel good about myself. I love giving advice to people and it working. I also have a passion for fighting obesity: I'm normally in shape but I've been fat at times but reversed it with diet and exercise. I'd like to do bariatrics or pulmonary.
If I were to do post-bac premed, would I have a chance getting in there given my background? And if I got thru that, could I get into an American medical school for MD? Money isn't an object for me: and if it were, given that I'd rather be making a garnished salary than no salary, the choice is obvious if it were.
I know its a keyboardful, but thanks.
So say I should hired from here, and I have time to take the classes at night: how long am I looking at? Also, in light of full time work, how much slack might or might I not get on sGPA/MCAT for a US MD or DO program?The premed requirements at most schools look like this now:
1 year of Biological Sciences
2 years of Chemistry (General and Organic Sequence)
1 year of Physics
*Biochemistry as required for MCAT
Given these changes, it's much easier to meet the requirements.
how about the calculus? Could I take 1 biochem and 1 chem at the same time, in addition to calculus? If I can get trig done then I think I can do well in that at minimum.If you haven't had any chemistry, then you're looking at a minimum of 5 semesters (2 sem of gen chem, 2 of orgo, 1 of biochem) because this sequence has to be done in order. If you're taking the other classes as well, and not at the same time, then more.
FT work gets you very minimal slack. i.e. they'll understand if you're not in school full time and if you don't take more than the required classes, but you don't get to have lower grades or MCAT scores than everybody else.
You can take calc at anytime, but it may make physics easier if you understand it. And you can't double up on the chem courses, not even biochem. Unless of course there's a different requirement at your school for pre-reqs, then forge ahead.how about the calculus? Could I take 1 biochem and 1 chem at the same time, in addition to calculus? If I can get trig done then I think I can do well in that at minimum.
also do you think doing this and studying for the CPA or CFA at the same time (as a backup against full med school rejection) would be feasible? I do also think having one of the designations or tests under my belt could be a big push in my favor. In an interview, I can talk about my views of the pharma industry, how the knowledge of finance/accounting would help me run a private practice (group or solo), etc.You can take calc at anytime, but it may make physics easier if you understand it. And you can't double up on the chem courses, not even biochem. Unless of course there's a different requirement at your school for pre-reqs, then forge ahead.
You can take other classes alongside the chem sequence (physics, bio, math, psych.soc, etc. as you like). But as @silleme said, you generally can't double up on the chems. Gen chem 1 is the pre-req for Gen chem 2, which is the pre-req for orgo 1...and so on. There are rare exceptions, but with neither a chem background nor having proven your mettle to the school, you're not going to get a department to sign off on you skipping pre-reqs.how about the calculus? Could I take 1 biochem and 1 chem at the same time, in addition to calculus? If I can get trig done then I think I can do well in that at minimum.
Having a Plan B is always smart.also do you think doing this and studying for the CPA or CFA at the same time (as a backup against full med school rejection) would be feasible? I do also think having one of the designations or tests under my belt could be a big push in my favor. In an interview, I can talk about my views of the pharma industry, how the knowledge of finance/accounting would help me run a private practice (group or solo), etc.
What about weekend volunteering at a hospital, should I have a five day work week? How much competition will I have for such a spot? And how many hours a day should I do in that case?However, it wouldn't balance out other deficits in your app (like your lack of clinical experience). Keep in mind you'll also need to explain (in detail and with well-thought-out reasons) why you're trying to switch careers.
Say... 6 hours/weekend * 50 weeks * 2 years = 600 hours, which would be respectable, though the more you do (and esp with seeing actual doctor-patient interactions) the better.What about weekend volunteering at a hospital, should I have a five day work week? How much competition will I have for such a spot? And how many hours a day should I do in that case?
How does seeing patients with a doctor work, in lieu of doctor-patient confidentiality? And I might plan to do it until I apply to med school, if possible, so it could be more like 70 weeks. I like that, especially if he's an attending at a hospital bc then its a networking contact for residency.Say... 6 hours/weekend * 50 weeks * 2 years = 600 hours, which would be respectable, though the more you do (and esp with seeing actual doctor-patient interactions) the better.
Dunno about competition. 1) I didn't go this route & 2) it would probably depend on your location.
If you're shadowing- You're a fly on the wall. You're in the room (after the doc asks the pt if it's ok) and you observe. You do not speak, except maybe to thank the patient for allowing you to observe. Outside of the room you can ask questions and talk to the doc about what you saw. You will have to sign HIPPA forms- essentially NDAs for what you see there.How does seeing patients with a doctor work, in lieu of doctor-patient confidentiality?
Yeah, I was thinking 50 weeks of the year * years if you start ASAP and continue till application, given that you still have 2+ years of classes to go. Which would be 100+ weeksAnd I might plan to do it until I apply to med school, if possible, so it could be more like 70 weeks.
Only a useful residency contact if you're doing this at an academic center/a hospital that has residents. Could be good for a med school app Letter of Recommendation (LOR) though.I like that, especially if he's an attending at a hospital bc then its a networking contact for residency.