Soooooo, how bout divorced with kids

[Holderlin]

Hello all, it's been awhile.

This situation is starting to look like a possibility. Anyone do this, or know someone who has? In some ways it feels like it may be worse than doing it married, but in other ways easier. The finances, I'm pretty sure, will consist of me taking out loans just to send to her, but aside from that I'm curious to hear some people's experience; best and worse aspects weighed against doing it with a ****ty marriage(if the latter's even possible)

Thanks.

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[FiremedicMike]

Marriage is not easy. It takes work and effort and give and take on both parts. I can go all spiritual on you and tell you why it's better to work it out from a religious standpoint, but I'm not sure where you stand on that, and quite honestly I don't feel like trying to carry on two religious discussions on these forums at once.

My wife and I have been through a lot, and even at the lowest of lows, I still knew divorce was not a realistic option for us. I'm glad we have stuck to that.

On a side note, I believe there are some studies out there that insist divorce is no good on kids.

 

[Holderlin]

Marriage is not easy. It takes work and effort and give and take on both parts. I can go all spiritual on you and tell you why it's better to work it out from a religious standpoint, but I'm not sure where you stand on that, and quite honestly I don't feel like trying to carry on two religious discussions on these forums at once.

My wife and I have been through a lot, and even at the lowest of lows, I still knew divorce was not a realistic option for us. I'm glad we have stuck to that.

On a side note, I believe there are some studies out there that insist divorce is no good on kids.

Dude. I feel you.

I don't wanna get a divorce. Plain and simple. And maybe I won't, but I have to prepare for all avenues. I'm not gonna sit back and get pwnt ever again.

 

[MaenadsDance]

On a side note, I believe there are some studies out there that insist divorce is no good on kids.

I mean, a failed marriage where the two spouses are constantly fighting with one another is also no good for kids.

 

[LifeTake2]

I don't know the background so I'm going to keep my replies as neutral as possible.

Firstly, you mention sending money to your possible ex, which implies she would have custody. From a student standpoint this would make you a single guy with some extra financial burdens. This would honestly probably make balancing school & studying easier.

However, it would be at the cost of your kids. Children do often fare better in a 2-parent household; but not always. A LOT depends on the dynamics of the home and the condition of the marriage. I don't get the feel from your post that you are currently in one of 'those' marriages where the kids would necessarily be better off.

If you can save the marriage, I would strongly recommend trying even if it means delaying school a year as you don't want to be doing both at the same time. Saving a marriage takes work, and if you are not stable at home it WILL impact your ability to do medical school.

If you can't; then focus on 1) protecting the kids from the inevitable conflict/fights, 2) how you will remain an active father in their lives--visitation, skype, birthdays, etc, 3) how you will make sure you can financially support them because their well-being come before your dreams of being a doctor.

Regardless of how this works out, I wish you the best.

 

[Holderlin]

I don't know the background so I'm going to keep my replies as neutral as possible.

Firstly, you mention sending money to your possible ex, which implies she would have custody. From a student standpoint this would make you a single guy with some extra financial burdens. This would honestly probably make balancing school & studying easier.

However, it would be at the cost of your kids. Children do often fare better in a 2-parent household; but not always. A LOT depends on the dynamics of the home and the condition of the marriage. I don't get the feel from your post that you are currently in one of 'those' marriages where the kids would necessarily be better off.

If you can save the marriage, I would strongly recommend trying even if it means delaying school a year as you don't want to be doing both at the same time. Saving a marriage takes work, and if you are not stable at home it WILL impact your ability to do medical school.

If you can't; then focus on 1) protecting the kids from the inevitable conflict/fights, 2) how you will remain an active father in their lives--visitation, skype, birthdays, etc, 3) how you will make sure you can financially support them because their well-being come before your dreams of being a doctor.

Regardless of how this works out, I wish you the best.

Now this really got me to thinking. Thanks. I appreciate it.

 

[FiremedicMike]

I mean, a failed marriage where the two spouses are constantly fighting with one another is also no good for kids.

With the obvious exception of violent domestic incidents, I believe the study still found divorce to be worse.

It's been years since I've heard that, and I wouldn't know where to begin to find it again, just recollecting..

 

[peppy]

If you can save the marriage, I would strongly recommend trying even if it means delaying school a year as you don't want to be doing both at the same time. Saving a marriage takes work, and if you are not stable at home it WILL impact your ability to do medical school.

I think this is good advice. You want to be at your best emotionally before you take on med school, and a lot of times divorces do have prolonged emotional fallout.
I remember the OP's earlier post that seemed to indicate some communication issues were brewing in the marriage. It might not be a bad idea to try taking a break from the stress of trying to get into med school to try to work on those issues for your kid's sake. The stress of having a fairly young child is enough on its own to stress a marriage, and the added stress of med school apps on top of that would be hard for anyone.

 

[NightGod]

On a side note, I believe there are some studies out there that insist divorce is no good on kids.

There's studies showing both sides. Mostly they seem to be based on researcher bias, unfortunately. I believe every situation (outside of the obvious abuse issues) is unique and it is impossible to assign a single clear answer on whether your children's lives would be better off if you were to split up or stay together.

I can offer a N=1 version that indicates my children are far better off now that their mother and I are divorced. We're both better parents and better people than we were when we were together and we've raised a couple of amazing children. While I can't say conclusively their lives would have been worse if we had stayed together, almost every indication leads me to believe that to be the truth. At the very least there is a lot less screaming and flying knives in their lives (gotta love being in a relationship with a Latina).

 

[Quizlet04]

The best way to end up with a divorce is to even make it an option. Once it's on the table, you will probably just end up circling it until one of you blinks.

Before embarking on this life-changing path, get your emotional **** in order. Get a couples' counselor (social worker, pastor, hooker, whatever), now. If he or she can't help you rebuild the relationship, then at least the break-up won't be a murderous mess. For all the controversy over psychotherapy, I think it's safe to say that some topics cause members of a couple to completely stop communicating. A therapist can help that. My marriage exists in part thanks to some serious outside help.

So get rid of the divorce option. Start looking at it like this: going to med school when family life is tough. Figure things out before looking for a way out.

 

[LifeTake2]

The best way to end up with a divorce is to even make it an option. Once it's on the table, you will probably just end up circling it until one of you blinks.

.......

So get rid of the divorce option. Start looking at it like this: going to med school when family life is tough. Figure things out before looking for a way out.

While the middle part is helpful and honest, you have no basis for the bold statement. If this were case no secular marriage would ever succeed which is clearly false. Recognizing something is flawed and you are moving towards divorce doesn't make it inevitable!

 

[Holderlin]

OK so here's the bare bones, cliff notes situation, kind of

-32 years old

-Married for 5 years in September

-1 year old, with another baby due in Feb 2012

-Bought a house last spring 2010

-Have a good decent job, just got my phd this year, almost mastered out of it, but stuck with it.

-I plan on applying in the next cycle for the 2013 school year, so I'll be 33 when I matric, and like 42 or so when I'm a doc depending on my exact route. Not bad. As all of us non-trads have realized we're getting old regardless, so we might as well be Physicians when it happens right?

-My wife has gradually become less and less happy with me for various reasons. She's kinda nuts, and has a long consistent history of threatening the marriage at the drop of a hat, which was never OK, but I tolerated it. We all have issues. But it's climbed many levels higher in intensity. She doesn't like me, plain and simple. It's all me and I'm the one who needs to change. It's been pretty bad for about 2 years. When she get's mad she says really mean things to me, like I'm "a disgrace", "pathetic", etc. really crazy stuff especially for someone who does/has done as much as me.

-I'm a great dad. I get up in the middle of night to tend to the baby, then I go to work, when I get home I do nothing but repeatedly read books to baby and play with her. I also cook dinner and clean every night, not to mention perform the outside chores on the weekend and any other darn thing that needs to be done. In fact today I'm going to clean the yard and stain the deck in preparation for my daughter's 1st birthday next weekend.yay

-We also have two dogs. I clean up their **** and bathe them.

-Did I mention just got a phd while supporting a family? Yeah. Disgraceful huh.

-Oh Yeah, I also work out like a machine 5 days a week during my lunch hour (2 hours really). I lift, then run 2 miles outside. I've been pretty buff, and maybe a bit chubby during these past few years(athlete in highschool and for a part of college), but in the last 6 months I've lost 3 inches off my waist, I almost have a 6 pack again, and I'll be damned if I don't look hawt when I take my shirt off now..

-I also play guitar and compose music with sequencing software. Some music labels have shown interest in my work.

-I also write fiction. Grant it I haven't really had the time for this lately but have about 300 manuscript pages for a book that also drew serious interest from publishers. At the time I was starting grad school so I had to put it off.

-I do all this while grappling with some anxiety issues as well (chest pains, waves of panic at times, and a bit of hyperventilation syndrome)

-Am I a "good husband"? I would say yes, but she's beginning to make me doubt myself. Am I really showing enough affection? Probably not. I would say it's because I feel like she hates me. She would say she only hates me because she feels unloved. The "good husband" question is a hard one to evaluate, but given everything I do it's hard for me to critique myself too hard. But I try.

- I do however drink too much on occasion, I have to watch myself in this department, but i know this and it's only improved over the past few years. I can also have minor fits of frustration that drive her crazy, but believe me were you to witness these moments (which we all have), you would agree that they are in fact minor. Typically they consist of a grunt and a "goddammit". That's it. She calls it an "anger problem".

This turned out to be longer than intended. Sorry. I'm really trying to be unbiased.

Again I really appreciate all the support

 

[LifeTake2]

Ok, I'm not a therapist but I've been married 13.5yrs, have 8 kids and a 'intense' relationship that has been up/down and everywhere in between.

Firstly, I think the biggest issue I see is communication. If you want to make this work you need to find a way to talk, and a therapist would likely help. However, unless you are ultra religious I would suggest finding a secular one not because the church-based ones are not good but their approach is different.

Ultimately, you see all the things you do and have done. She shes what you do & have done but differently.

As an example: you married at 27, have 2 kids, have earned a PhD and written a book. You see this as a great accomplishment; whereas some days she wishes you were like her friends husbands and worked 9-5 and brought home a steady paycheck. She is no doubt proud of you, but the stress of you being a student and a father has likely left little time for being a husband.

You highlight all the things you do, the dogs, the deck, playing with your toddler, working out, etc. All great but not important to most women (except the kid); but I don't see where you get a babysitter and go have a quiet dinner with your wife once in a while just to be together...read without s*x on the menu. I assume if you married her at some point you had something in common; you need to find it and make time for it.

If that means skipping one of your workouts so be it, trust me most wives would live with a few pounds in exchange for a hubby that watched the baby some afternoon so they could have lunch with their girlfriends.

As for anger & drinking this is a touchy subject; but I'd ask a friend that you trust for the truth. It could be her being sensitive or it could be your Type-A personality heading you down a bumpy road.

Ultimately I can't tell you what is going on based upon a post online, and I can't tell you if you are doomed. What I can tell you is that the only way you two are going to make it is to get some help from a 3rd party that can mediate. I wish you the best.

PS: if you want feel free to PM me with questions as this is a public forum.

 

[Scottish Chap]

Hello all, it's been awhile.

This situation is starting to look like a possibility. Anyone do this, or know someone who has? In some ways it feels like it may be worse than doing it married, but in other ways easier. The finances, I'm pretty sure, will consist of me taking out loans just to send to her, but aside from that I'm curious to hear some people's experience; best and worse aspects weighed against doing it with a ****ty marriage(if the latter's even possible)

Thanks.

It can be done, but there needs to be significant help from family and friends. An attending I worked with at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center was divorced with a child and actually earned her undergraduate degree, and then medical degree as a single mother. Clearly, it worked out for her. Good luck!

 

[NightGod]

As an example: you married at 27, have 2 kids, have earned a PhD and written a book. You see this as a great accomplishment; whereas some days she wishes you were like her friends husbands and worked 9-5 and brought home a steady paycheck. She is no doubt proud of you, but the stress of you being a student and a father has likely left little time for being a husband.

He did say he is supporting the family. Also mentions that his workouts are on his lunch break. They also recently bought a home. He also said he goes to work the next morning after getting up to take care of the baby. All of that indicates the presence of a job pretty succinctly.

Questions:
1) Does she work? If so, what does she do? What kind of work do you do?
2) When is the last time the two of you were alone that didn't involve hoping the baby didn't wake up?
3) Do you have any family close by? Does she?
4) What is the friends situation like for both of you?
5) Does she exercise regularly? What does her body look like?

 

[LifeTake2]

He did say he is supporting the family. Also mentions that his workouts are on his lunch break. They also recently bought a home. He also said he goes to work the next morning after getting up to take care of the baby. All of that indicates the presence of a job pretty succinctly.

Questions:
1) Does she work? If so, what does she do? What kind of work do you do?
2) When is the last time the two of you were alone that didn't involve hoping the baby didn't wake up?
3) Do you have any family close by? Does she?
4) What is the friends situation like for both of you?
5) Does she exercise regularly? What does her body look like?

I didn't say he wasn't working. But a brand new PhD and 2 hour lunch breaks says academia, and obviously w/o tenure yet. Yes it pays the bills but not the most reliable or stable.....and he is actively trying to go back to school full-time. This can and will cause stress on a marriage even if she is the CEO of Apple, especially with baby #2 on the way.

On a seperate note: please tell me you weren't serious basing marital advice on if his wife has put on weight!

 

[NightGod]

On a seperate note: please tell me you weren't serious basing marital advice on if his wife has put on weight!

If she has put on significant weight after having their first child while he is getting into better and better shape, it could be cause self-esteem issues for her. It's a valid concern.

 

[Holderlin]

He did say he is supporting the family. Also mentions that his workouts are on his lunch break. They also recently bought a home. He also said he goes to work the next morning after getting up to take care of the baby. All of that indicates the presence of a job pretty succinctly.

Questions:
1) Does she work? If so, what does she do? What kind of work do you do?
2) When is the last time the two of you were alone that didn't involve hoping the baby didn't wake up?
3) Do you have any family close by? Does she?
4) What is the friends situation like for both of you?
5) Does she exercise regularly? What does her body look like?

1) She only works two days a week now at a bank.
2) From time to time a dinner here and there, just no real interest on either end.
3) My family is two hours away, hers is 8 hours away in another state (CA), another thing I totally forgot to add is that she hates my mom, and strictly regulates how often my family is allowed to see the baby. My parents don't even see her once a month and it's killing them. When I get assertive with the issue she threatens divorce. And believe me my mom is NOTHING compared to what some mother is laws women have to deal with. I've had third party confirmation on this. She thinks my mom is "weird" and "loves the baby too much" WTF.
4) She has friends that she has forced on me that I accept, and try to hang out with, even though they aren't really my friends. You know, new friends that also have babies that she met at baby boot camp. They are boring as hell, except one dude, but I deal.

She doesn't like my real friends, and doesn't really allow them to come over, nor am I really allowed to go hang out with them. Basically there's always consequences if I happen to hit my buddies up once in a blue moon. It gets old.

5) She does exercise regularly, but right now she's pregnant so. She's never been a "skinny" girl. Kinda has a thick build with pretty buff calves. But I will say that she could do a lot better.

I'm a scientist in research and development in private industry.

 

[Holderlin]

If she has put on significant weight after having their first child while he is getting into better and better shape, it could be cause self-esteem issues for her. It's a valid concern.

She's kind of battled weight for a while now and has made steady improvements, even after the pregnancy. Given the work I've put in I think it's a valid question regardless your sugar coated justification. If she's going to call me a "disgrace" I'm not pulling any punches in my analysis.

 

[FiremedicMike]

He did say he is supporting the family. Also mentions that his workouts are on his lunch break. They also recently bought a home. He also said he goes to work the next morning after getting up to take care of the baby. All of that indicates the presence of a job pretty succinctly.

Questions:
1) Does she work? If so, what does she do? What kind of work do you do?
2) When is the last time the two of you were alone that didn't involve hoping the baby didn't wake up?
3) Do you have any family close by? Does she?
4) What is the friends situation like for both of you?
5) Does she exercise regularly? What does her body look like?

My marriage is far from perfect, as a matter of fact I'd say right now it's not doing it's greatest. With that said, I can't stress enough how critically important date night is. I wouldn't go longer than 2 weeks if possible without having a night completely to eachother. Go to dinner, get a bit tipsy (don't both be drunk, one of you has to drive), go do naughty things to eachother. Do all these things without your baby. On that note, please bear with her the first few times, because she's going to be thinking about nothing but the baby early on. Let it go, focus on the date.

 

[FiremedicMike]

She's kind of battled weight for a while now and has made steady improvements, even after the pregnancy. Given the work I've put in I think it's a valid question regardless your sugar coated justification. If she's going to call me a "disgrace" I'm not pulling any punches in my analysis.

This has 0 lasting power, and it's something I'm learning more and more every day. When I first read your post about her calling you pathetic, etc, my first thought was "oh I would blow a gasket and tell her all of her faults" but that just doesn't work. Forgive her for her statements, don't react, and continue with my above plan and see how that goes.

By the way, has she been evaluated for post-partum depression?

 

[Holderlin]

This has 0 lasting power, and it's something I'm learning more and more every day. When I first read your post about her calling you pathetic, etc, my first thought was "oh I would blow a gasket and tell her all of her faults" but that just doesn't work. Forgive her for her statements, don't react, and continue with my above plan and see how that goes.

By the way, has she been evaluated for post-partum depression?

Thanks man. This all started in before the had the baby. I don't think her postpartum stuff was out of the ordinary.

 

[Holderlin]

And this really sucks because the whole thing expands into an all encompassing existential crisis where I'm questioning everything I've done to lead to this point.

Off topic, but I find myself asking:

- Have I been making poor choices the last decade of my life?

- Have I cheated myself out of "true love", or at the very least a healthy relationship? Was our relationship just two messed up people comforting each other at the time they both needed it? Now with two kids? Am I really so weak that I sacrificed my youth because it was easy? These questions are painful man.

And of course all of these things are compelling me to take notice of other women, which is messing with me in a big way. And I don't just mean turning my head. I'm starting to act like an ignorant 20 year old and develop crushes.

 

[FiremedicMike]

I hate to give you a cop out answer, but as this unravels and becomes more complicated, it becomes more clear that you should seek your advice with a personal and professional counselor, it would be nice if you could get a marriage counselor if your wife is willing.

I think we're getting past the level of appropriateness for obtaining advice on an anonymous forum.

 

[theseeker4]

And this really sucks because the whole thing expands into an all encompassing existential crisis where I'm questioning everything I've done to lead to this point.

Off topic, but I find myself asking:

- Have I been making poor choices the last decade of my life?

- Have I cheated myself out of "true love", or at the very least a healthy relationship? Was our relationship just two messed up people comforting each other at the time they both needed it? Now with two kids? Am I really so weak that I sacrificed my youth because it was easy? These questions are painful man.

And of course all of these things are compelling me to take notice of other women, which is messing with me in a big way. And I don't just mean turning my head. I'm starting to act like an ignorant 20 year old and develop crushes.

Very unfortunate situation to be in. I didn't see it answered above (might have missed it) but have you been to any counseling? Is that something you and she would be willing to do? My marriage is thankfully not in trouble, but counseling would be my first stop before divorce. Unfortunately, like making marriage itself work, it takes both people to be open and willing for counseling to work while it only takes one person to ruin it.

You have made some comments along the line of your wife being crazy. Do you actually believe she has a mental problem, or are you just stating these things because you are frustrated? If you think she has a genuine problem, you should do whatever you can to get her evaluated and treated. Even if it ends your marriage, or your marriage is already over, for the sake of your children you need to know that she is sane enough not to be a danger. These are probably things that you have already considered, but just throwing them out there.

Good luck with everything.

 

[Holderlin]

I appreciate the advice. I apologize for moving beyond the scope of this forum. Just needed to vent a bit. It's a bitter sweet thing to go through something like this. It feels like life and the world just opened itself to an infinite number of beautiful possibilities, which all come at a huge cost. But if I don't change something, will I look back at this impasse with an even deeper, more heart sick regret than now? I can't imagine having this crisis at 42.

We've been to marriage counseling, but I didn't really take it seriously. It was an attractive older women who ended up just counseling me alone in the end. It was weird, but she convinced me to go to grad school. Hmm. I don't think I've really pondered how strange that was. What if she wanted to hit it? See there I go again.

Wife's a great mom. As good as I've seen. She's not really crazy, but has relationship issues. She's had the same therapist for 10 years, which I think she might need to change up. Try telling her that. Her parents were divorced and what not with a millionaire alcoholic father and a weird mom who she has issues with.

 

[FiremedicMike]

No need to apologize, you're perfectly fine. I'm merely pointing out that there's a lot of baggage here that won't be solved over an anonymous internet forum. I truly wish the best for and your marriage

 

[NightGod]

I hate to give you a cop out answer, but as this unravels and becomes more complicated, it becomes more clear that you should seek your advice with a personal and professional counselor, it would be nice if you could get a marriage counselor if your wife is willing.

I think we're getting past the level of appropriateness for obtaining advice on an anonymous forum.

I've always thought this was one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on a forum. Sometimes an anonymous forum where a person can vent their frustrations and get unbiased opinions can be exactly the sort of thing needed to get through a crisis. I've helped plenty of people through the words on a computer screen. The only way it becomes inappropriate is if the person seeking advice decides it is, and everyone has the option to just bow out if they no longer feel like they have anything to add to the discussion.

Honestly, OP, it seems to me that you've married a very controlling person. The "not allowed to hang out with my real friends" thing is a very serious issue. It's absolutely essential to the health of a relationship that both partners be allowed to have some part of their lives to themselves, even if that's just poker night once every two weeks. You should absolutely know who their friends are, but it should be a semi-common occurrence that each of you spends a small amount of time out of the house and off with their friends. And, no, time at work doesn't count, for either of you.

Her not letting your parents be a part of their grandchildren's lives is also a HUGE red flag.

On the "looking at other women" topic. You absolutely MUST back away from that train of thought unless you have totally decided that you are done with this marriage. While there is absolutely nothing wrong (and honestly, a few things right) with harmless flirting with strangers, the second your thought process goes from "hey, she's cute and she laughed at my stupid joke, I still have it (and now I'm going to go home and make my wife feel sexy so she can enjoy that same little rush)" to "I wonder if I could get her number and sneak out to the bar with her" then it becomes a serious hindrance to any potential reconciliation in a strained marriage.

In a lot of ways, you sound like where I was in the couple of years before my ex and I got divorced. Other than the fact that she never kept my parents away from our children and she wasn't actively involved in therapy, it all sounds very familiar. You're at a bit of a turning point here, you need to decide if you're going to push her to join you in couple's counseling and get these problems worked out or you have to start making preparations for a divorce. But you need to decide one way or the other soon, because what you're dealing with now is just destroying both your lives.

 

[FiremedicMike]

I've always thought this was one of the most ignorant comments I've ever read on a forum. Sometimes an anonymous forum where a person can vent their frustrations and get unbiased opinions can be exactly the sort of thing needed to get through a crisis. I've helped plenty of people through the words on a computer screen. The only way it becomes inappropriate is if the person seeking advice decides it is, and everyone has the option to just bow out if they no longer feel like they have anything to add to the discussion.

I'm not really sure why that was necessary.

Honestly, OP, it seems to me that you've married a very controlling person. The "not allowed to hang out with my real friends" thing is a very serious issue. It's absolutely essential to the health of a relationship that both partners be allowed to have some part of their lives to themselves, even if that's just poker night once every two weeks. You should absolutely know who their friends are, but it should be a semi-common occurrence that each of you spends a small amount of time out of the house and off with their friends. And, no, time at work doesn't count, for either of you.

Her not letting your parents be a part of their grandchildren's lives is also a HUGE red flag.

On the "looking at other women" topic. You absolutely MUST back away from that train of thought unless you have totally decided that you are done with this marriage. While there is absolutely nothing wrong (and honestly, a few things right) with harmless flirting with strangers, the second your thought process goes from "hey, she's cute and she laughed at my stupid joke, I still have it (and now I'm going to go home and make my wife feel sexy so she can enjoy that same little rush)" to "I wonder if I could get her number and sneak out to the bar with her" then it becomes a serious hindrance to any potential reconciliation in a strained marriage.

In a lot of ways, you sound like where I was in the couple of years before my ex and I got divorced. Other than the fact that she never kept my parents away from our children and she wasn't actively involved in therapy, it all sounds very familiar. You're at a bit of a turning point here, you need to decide if you're going to push her to join you in couple's counseling and get these problems worked out or you have to start making preparations for a divorce. But you need to decide one way or the other soon, because what you're dealing with now is just destroying both your lives.

And herein lies the crux of my argument. You are making some very definitive statements based on the OP's admitted venting. You have 1 side of an argument on an anonymous forum, and you are directing the OP on matters based on your judgements of that venting.

I have no problem giving people advice on random bits, but as I stated, it is becoming clear that there are likely some very serious issues here that cannot be addressed with random advice from people with no confirmed qualifications over an anonymous internet forum. I did not use the word inappropriate as in the way we describe monkey porn, I used it to describe the fact that there are issues here that need to be addressed in person, not with random people he doesn't know.

 

[LifeTake2]

I have to agree that this thread has outlived its usefulness. Not to mention being way off topic for this site.

It is clear there are deep marital issues involved, and the OP's marriage is in jeopardy.

What is not clear is why. There are a multitude of reasons why a marriage fails, but rarely is it all one sides fault ( outside of infidelity or abuse). Yet by the nature of using a forum we have been told only one side. There is nothing that is going to be resolved here.

 

[Holderlin]

Thanks guys.

 

[NightGod]

I'm not really sure why that was necessary.



And herein lies the crux of my argument. You are making some very definitive statements based on the OP's admitted venting. You have 1 side of an argument on an anonymous forum, and you are directing the OP on matters based on your judgements of that venting.

I have no problem giving people advice on random bits, but as I stated, it is becoming clear that there are likely some very serious issues here that cannot be addressed with random advice from people with no confirmed qualifications over an anonymous internet forum. I did not use the word inappropriate as in the way we describe monkey porn, I used it to describe the fact that there are issues here that need to be addressed in person, not with random people he doesn't know.

It was necessary because it's true. The "you can't get help with personal problems online" concept is about as realistic as "you can't find a meaningful relationship online".

If you actually read my advice, what it ultimately boils down to is "you need to decide if your marriage is worth saving and, if it is, you need to seek couple's counseling because it sounds like there are some serious issues at play".

Do I truly believe everything else I posted (not being able to spend time with friends is unhealthy to a relationship, not being allowed to take your children to see their grandparents is unhealthy to a marriage and the desire to pursue other romantic partners is destructive to a marriage)? I absolutely do. Note that the only solid advice I gave was "reign in your desire to fool around" and "seek counseling". Beyond that it was a basic validation of the OPs concerns and a reiteration of them to make sure they sounded right to him. I've done the exact same thing before with good results and I'll happily do it again.

 

[Holderlin]

It was necessary because it's true. The "you can't get help with personal problems online" concept is about as realistic as "you can't find a meaningful relationship online".

If you actually read my advice, what it ultimately boils down to is "you need to decide if your marriage is worth saving and, if it is, you need to seek couple's counseling because it sounds like there are some serious issues at play".

Do I truly believe everything else I posted (not being able to spend time with friends is unhealthy to a relationship, not being allowed to take your children to see their grandparents is unhealthy to a marriage and the desire to pursue other romantic partners is destructive to a marriage)? I absolutely do. Note that the only solid advice I gave was "reign in your desire to fool around" and "seek counseling". Beyond that it was a basic validation of the OPs concerns and a reiteration of them to make sure they sounded right to him. I've done the exact same thing before with good results and I'll happily do it again.

Good advice, all of you . Thanks again.

 

[LifeTake2]

It was necessary because it's true. The "you can't get help with personal problems online" concept is about as realistic as "you can't find a meaningful relationship online".

If you actually read my advice, what it ultimately boils down to is "you need to decide if your marriage is worth saving and, if it is, you need to seek couple's counseling because it sounds like there are some serious issues at play".

Do I truly believe everything else I posted (not being able to spend time with friends is unhealthy to a relationship, not being allowed to take your children to see their grandparents is unhealthy to a marriage and the desire to pursue other romantic partners is destructive to a marriage)? I absolutely do. Note that the only solid advice I gave was "reign in your desire to fool around" and "seek counseling". Beyond that it was a basic validation of the OPs concerns and a reiteration of them to make sure they sounded right to him. I've done the exact same thing before with good results and I'll happily do it again.

Nightgod: married? how long? Just curious since you are pretty adamant your marriage advice is spot-on.

 

[NightGod]

Nightgod: married? how long? Just curious since you are pretty adamant your marriage advice is spot-on.

Happily divorced for seven years now. We got married way too young (I wasn't even legal to drink the day I got married) and toughed it out for just shy of ten years (we got divorced 4 1/2 months before our 10th anniversary). That divorce has since prompted me to spend a lot of time and energy researching what makes a strong relationship. I've built a much healthier relationship with my ex-wife these days and am fortunately to be able to count her as one of my oldest and best friends. I often say that if I knew 20 years ago what I know today our marriage would have never fallen apart. Of course, the corollary to that is I also would have never married her because there was nothing healthy about our relationship.

I this case, I see many of the same issues that lead to the eventual collapse of my marriage (and so many others). I have tons of other advice that could possibly apply to this situation, but you notice that I'm not giving it because I don't know enough specifics to feel comfortable doing so. I've helped friends (male and female alike) enter into strong, loving relationships with people they are looking forward to spending the rest of their life with, I've helped a few save marriages and I've helped a couple others bring relatively calm ends to marriages that seemed destined for a tumultuous wreck.

So, yes, I feel confident enough in my advice to say "she sounds very controlling (note that the use of sounds also means that it could be how he perceives her, which is nearly as bad as if she is actually so), your parents should have access to their grandchildren, cheating or even strongly contemplating cheating is a recipe for disaster and you should seek out counseling to begin working through the problems you have as a couple". Maybe it's just how I view the world that makes me see that as little more than common sense advice that needs to be put in black and white to help someone who seems to be drowning a bit and could use some guidance. I know I look back and wish someone had come up to me in the darkest hours of my marriage and given me some clear direction, it could have saved both of us some very unhappy years.

 

[TheTao]

So, yes, I feel confident enough in my advice to say "she sounds very controlling (note that the use of sounds also means that it could be how he perceives her, which is nearly as bad as if she is actually so), your parents should have access to their grandchildren, cheating or even strongly contemplating cheating is a recipe for disaster and you should seek out counseling to begin working through the problems you have as a couple". Maybe it's just how I view the world that makes me see that as little more than common sense advice that needs to be put in black and white to help someone who seems to be drowning a bit and could use some guidance. I know I look back and wish someone had come up to me in the darkest hours of my marriage and given me some clear direction, it could have saved both of us some very unhappy years.

 

[Holderlin]

Happily divorced for seven years now. We got married way too young (I wasn't even legal to drink the day I got married) and toughed it out for just shy of ten years (we got divorced 4 1/2 months before our 10th anniversary). That divorce has since prompted me to spend a lot of time and energy researching what makes a strong relationship. I've built a much healthier relationship with my ex-wife these days and am fortunately to be able to count her as one of my oldest and best friends. I often say that if I knew 20 years ago what I know today our marriage would have never fallen apart. Of course, the corollary to that is I also would have never married her because there was nothing healthy about our relationship.

I this case, I see many of the same issues that lead to the eventual collapse of my marriage (and so many others). I have tons of other advice that could possibly apply to this situation, but you notice that I'm not giving it because I don't know enough specifics to feel comfortable doing so. I've helped friends (male and female alike) enter into strong, loving relationships with people they are looking forward to spending the rest of their life with, I've helped a few save marriages and I've helped a couple others bring relatively calm ends to marriages that seemed destined for a tumultuous wreck.

So, yes, I feel confident enough in my advice to say "she sounds very controlling (note that the use of sounds also means that it could be how he perceives her, which is nearly as bad as if she is actually so), your parents should have access to their grandchildren, cheating or even strongly contemplating cheating is a recipe for disaster and you should seek out counseling to begin working through the problems you have as a couple". Maybe it's just how I view the world that makes me see that as little more than common sense advice that needs to be put in black and white to help someone who seems to be drowning a bit and could use some guidance. I know I look back and wish someone had come up to me in the darkest hours of my marriage and given me some clear direction, it could have saved both of us some very unhappy years.

Great post.

Unhealthy relationship from the start is what this really comes down to.

It's funny that most relationships probably begin in this way; complimenting each other's problems, so that you can both put off solving them.

 

[NightGod]

It's funny that most relationships probably begin in this way; complimenting each other's problems, so that you can both put off solving them.

You know, my parents are absolutely horrible with giving relationship advice. Seriously, just completely, utterly, hopelessly awful. That said, I've managed to get two nuggets from them: the observation you mention above about how people tend to compliment each other's problems and my dad's more general life advice (that also applied to my failing marriage) of "you shouldn't have to lead a life of quiet desperation".