Sophie Davis Drop-out.

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Hello. I'm in serious need of some advice any help would be appreciated. Let me explain my situation:

Okay. I left the Sophie Davis School of Biomedical Education over the Summer. For those that don't know, it's an accelerated B.S./M.D. program at City College in NYC. I made it through almost 4 years there. The biggest question you probably have is..."Why did you leave!?!?" Well I saw that the end was coming. I failed my neuroscience class and my immuniology miniboard examination; I had to pass both make-up examinations to continue. The make-up exams were a week apart from each other...I didn't see it as doable and so I gave up. I resigned.

I also failed my anatomy and histology classes my 3rd year. I had to retake it the following year. Passed both...Anatomy with an A. Apart from that I also took a year off after that because I was tired of school and unhappy at Sophie Davis. So in total I've spent 6 years at Sophie Davis and almost completed 4 years of curriculum. 2 Withdrawals, 2 incompletes during my time at Sophie Davis.

After 6+ years I have nothing. Not even enough to get a Bachelors in Science. Right now I'm finishing up what I need to get a Bachelors of science in Biology. All I need are a few more classes. I had to withdraw two classes so far in 2 semesters because of bad planning. I tried to take on more credits than I could handle. It wasn't smart.

Always struggled at Sophie Davis. So I rarely got A's and would usually get a B (the minimum to pass at Sophie). So my GPA isn't high and neither is my science GPA.

Thing is after all the years and failures I still want a career in the medical field. I like it. It's what I want to do. But before I move on and completely discard the idea of being a doctor....I need to ask what are my chances?

Will a DO school give me any consideration?
Overall GPA: 3.417
Science GPA: 3.265

I haven't taken the MCAT yet.
I have not done any volunteer work or extracurriculars since I've left Sophie Davis.

Be as honest as you can...I need the truth. I've heard it all; the negativity I get at school is ridiculous but there's a little faith inside of me. If you need to know more about me just ask.

Thank you all.

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[Catalystik]

Will a DO school give me any consideration?
Overall GPA: 3.417
Science GPA: 3.265

I haven't taken the MCAT yet.
I have not done any volunteer work or extracurriculars since I've left . . .

Yes, assuming you acquire the usual and customary activities/DO shadowing for some schools, and get a decent MCAT score, you have a shot at osteopathic med schools, particularly the newer ones. Remember that AACOMAS only includes the second grade if you retake, when they calculate your application GPA. And their sGPA doesn't include math. Does that change your numbers, or did you already account for that? Also, if some of your coursework was deemed to be at the graduate level, it would be calculated separately and go on another line of the application.

Don't rush. Take your time and do it right. Get past the burnout you've experienced.

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Yes, assuming you acquire the usual and customary activities/DO shadowing for some schools, and get a decent MCAT score, you have a shot at osteopathic med schools, particularly the newer ones. Remember that AACOMAS only includes the second grade if you retake, when they calculate your application GPA. And their sGPA doesn't include math. Does that change your numbers, or did you already account for that? Also, if some of your coursework was deemed to be at the graduate level, it would be calculated separately and go on another line of the application.

Don't rush. Take your time and do it right. Get past the burnout you've experienced.

Thanks so much for your response.
I calculated all my sciences together and got the number above, including the sciences I took at Sophie Davis which were technically "medical school" courses. I did not include math.

 

[Catalystik]

There are some DO schools that look only at the undergrad GPAs and others that primarily consider the overall GPA including the grad school grades. Which school is which I don't know. I recall reading this in the PreMedOsteo forum some time back. But the official transcript, where they would be differentiated, is what you'd go by in terms of whether to categorize coursework as undergrad or grad.

What ECs do you have so far that you feel might be relevant?

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

There are some DO schools that look only at the undergrad GPAs and others that primarily consider the overall GPA including the grad school grades. Which school is which I don't know. I recall reading this in the PreMedOsteo forum some time back. But the official transcript, where they would be differentiated, is what you'd go by in terms of whether to categorize coursework as undergrad or grad.

What ECs do you have so far that you feel might be relevant?

My transcript shows everything as undergraduate at the moment.

I'm an certified EMT, I took the course during one of my years off, and would like to volunteer. I don't want to volunteer at hospitals anymore because that's stuff I did in high school and early college. I have experience in community health centers, but that's because they were part of the Sophie Davis curriculum; I spent a entire semester learning about the patient interview and interviewing at a health center. Also spent a summer doing medical assistant work but that's again because of Sophie Davis. Haven't done any ECs on my own but I guess EMT would be a good place to begin...

 

[Catalystik]

1) My transcript shows everything as undergraduate at the moment.

2) I'm an certified EMT, I took the course during one of my years off, and would like to volunteer. I don't want to volunteer at hospitals anymore because that's stuff I did in high school and early college. I have experience in community health centers, but that's because they were part of the Sophie Davis curriculum; I spent a entire semester learning about the patient interview and interviewing at a health center. Also spent a summer doing medical assistant work but that's again because of Sophie Davis. Haven't done any ECs on my own but I guess EMT would be a good place to begin...

1) Then that's how you'd categorize it on the AACOMAS application form when you enter your coursework.

2) It sounds like you have a good amount of active clinical experience already; it doesn't matter that you acquired it for the sake of your classes. Research, teaching, peer leadership, nonmedical community service, and physician shadowing are other areas to consider adding to your CV.

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Can anyone else offer an opinion? My biggest worry is not having a school give me a chance because I already had my chance.

 

[bearded frog]

​

 

[gyngyn]

I don't know if schools count that as "medical school" so you might be ok. You can get that GPA up if need by via grade replacement.

I'm afraid we do.

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

I'm afraid we do.

Yes, that's what I've been told aswell. Which doesn't make sense since Sophie Davis isn't technically a medical school. It doesn't even follow a traditional medical school curriculum.

Help me out here please, any advice?

 

[gyngyn]

Yes, that's what I've been told aswell. Which doesn't make sense since Sophie Davis isn't technically a medical school. It doesn't even follow a traditional medical school curriculum.

Help me out here please, any advice?

I agree with @Catalystik. Your best chance is to use grade replacement and apply DO. You can always throw in a few MD when the time comes.

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

I agree with @Catalystik. Your best chance is to use grade replacement and apply DO. You can always throw in a few MD when the time comes.

I appreciate your input. Ty.

 

[Goro]

Why do you think you magically do better at another medical school? You were given a shot to prove yourself, so we're going to need evidence that medical school won't flatten you like a steamroller.

Will a DO school give me any consideration?

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Why do you think you magically do better at another medical school? You were given a shot to prove yourself, so we're going to need evidence that medical school won't flatten you like a steamroller.

Will a DO school give me any consideration?

And that's my biggest concern. Not that I won't be able to handle it...but proving that I can.

I never adapted to the fast pace of Sophie Davis. 2 months of physiology...2 months of anatomy...a month and half for pharmacology. How can anyone learn that way? Honestly. On top of that I commuted 4.5 hours daily back and forth from school. The last thing I wanted to do when I got home was open a book. That's why I did so poorly. Plus I tired to do it all myself , I never asked for help, while those who dormed had each other.

But it doesn't matter that's the past and there's little I can do to prove myself now. Unless there's something I can do...

 

[gyngyn]

But it doesn't matter that's the past and there's little I can do to prove myself now. Unless there's something I can do...

Medical school is fast paced. You can re-take everything you got a C in and apply DO.

 

[DermViser]

Yes, that's what I've been told aswell. Which doesn't make sense since Sophie Davis isn't technically a medical school. It doesn't even follow a traditional medical school curriculum.

Help me out here please, any advice?

Sophie Davis isn't a medical school, but you took medical school coursework. Everywhere you apply you have to tell them your educational history and send your transcripts where they will see that you attempted medical school basic science coursework. The main concern will be how can they be assured it won't happen again? The "never asked for help" part is esp. worrisome to medical school admissions committees.

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Medical school is fast paced. You can re-take everything you got a C in and apply DO.

Never got a C on my transcript. Just INC. for Incomplete. Plus I can't retake them because theyre only offered in the program and I'm not there anymore.

 

[gyngyn]

Never got a C on my transcript. Just INC. for Incomplete. Plus I can't retake them because theyre only offered in the program and I'm not there anymore.

How about the F's you mentioned, is there nowhere else you could re-take them?

 

[DermViser]

Never got a C on my transcript. Just INC. for Incomplete. Plus I can't retake them because theyre only offered in the program and I'm not there anymore.

Have you thought about PA school?

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Have you thought about PA school?

I have but I don't feel good about it. My preference is to be a doctor. If the door is completely shut I'll need to move on...I'll have no other choice. But if there's a slight opening I need to know how to get through. Basically that's why I'm here. I've talked to advisers at school but they're all negative...zero optimism.

Basically I need to know if I should continue pursing the doctor thing or move on...

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

How about the F's you mentioned, is there nowhere else you could re-take them?

Grading system is complicated at Sophie Davis. In a nutshell, you need to pass the class with a B or greater AND pass a miniboard exam at the end of course to move on.

If you fail either you get an incomplete. I have two incompletes. I don't have Fs or Cs on my transcript. There all Bs with a few As.

I can't take them over because they're medical school type courses.

 

[DermViser]

I have but I don't feel good about it. My preference is to be a doctor. If the door is completely shut I'll need to move on...I'll have no other choice. But if there's a slight opening I need to know how to get through. Basically that's why I'm here. I've talked to advisers at school but they're all negative...zero optimism. Basically I need to know if I should continue pursing the doctor thing or move on...

I think the only one who knows this answer is you. Advisers are only going to look at your previous track record which isn't good. Medical schools like to go by previous track records bc it tends to predict future performance. Doing a complete 180 is hard for most people. Not to mention with the way things are looking more and more things will be taken over by NPs and PAs, anyways.

It seems to me like you're more latching onto the prestige of being a doctor, when you might be just as happy in the NP or PA fields, which can also be in many specialties.

 

[gyngyn]

Grading system is complicated at Sophie Davis. In a nutshell, you need to pass the class with a B or greater AND pass a miniboard exam at the end of course to move on.

If you fail either you get an incomplete. I have two incompletes. I don't have Fs or Cs on my transcript. There all Bs with a few As.

I can't take them over because they're medical school type courses.

Apply DO. If it doesn't work out, go PA if you still want a clinical license.

 

[Goro]

It might be best to simply stat over in a more traditional UG program. Majoring whatever interests you the most. You will need to excel in whatever you take. This will shown us you can handle medical school. Do NOT go to school which requires a long commute! Make smart choices.

And that's my biggest concern. Not that I won't be able to handle it...but proving that I can.

I never adapted to the fast pace of Sophie Davis. 2 months of physiology...2 months of anatomy...a month and half for pharmacology. How can anyone learn that way? Honestly. On top of that I commuted 4.5 hours daily back and forth from school. The last thing I wanted to do when I got home was open a book. That's why I did so poorly. Plus I tired to do it all myself , I never asked for help, while those who dormed had each other.

But it doesn't matter that's the past and there's little I can do to prove myself now. Unless there's something I can do...

 

[lmn]

I know you stated you weren't interested in PA, but it seems (as much as you can interpret in an online post) that you aren't interested due to the prestige of being a physician vs PA, but I would really recommend that you look further into the roles PA's are able to take on and the work they do. You can get involved in many different specialties, some with very high amounts of autonomy, and be a very impactful healthcare provider still in much less time than it would take you to become a doctor - and for a lot less!

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

I know you stated you weren't interested in PA, but it seems (as much as you can interpret in an online post) that you aren't interested due to the prestige of being a physician vs PA, but I would really recommend that you look further into the roles PA's are able to take on and the work they do. You can get involved in many different specialties, some with very high amounts of autonomy, and be a very impactful healthcare provider still in much less time than it would take you to

You're both right about the prestige part. Going the NP or PA route seems like the easy way out but it could be the best decision at this point. Although NP could be tough being a guy. I need to research what's out there.

 

[Catalystik]

NP could be tough being a guy.

Where did you get a mistaken idea like that?

 

[Loveneko]

@InNeedofAdvice538
I dropped out of Sophie with a 3.1 and got my BSN (GPA 3.7, science GPA 4.0) in 3 years at another university.
I remember the dean (A short little man, with black hair, he's no longer the dean) telling me I could take a year off for medical leave and come back. I couldn't stay in the program because I felt bullied and ostracized by my Sophie peers. My Sophie roommates were atrocious, and air headed. I explained all of those things to the dean, and he looked me directly in the eye and said "if you leave Sophie, you will NEVER become a doctor. As a poor, black female, this is your only opportunity, Sophie is all you have."
I left Sophie, went to City year round (summer, fall, winter and spring sessions) to make it look like I was still in the program to my family and friends. I never stepped foot back into another science class, and became a psychology major. Went from freshman to senior within the same year as a psych major. Then when I couldn't keep up the facade, I told my friends and family. Within a month I had packed my stuff up into my car, put in a last minute college app to some random, nobody university in Miami, where I knew no one, got accepted, and left New York. Long, dramatic story short, I put 2 years of course work into 3 semesters, (20-25 credits a semester) got accepted into their nursing school, did what I had to and graduated. Now I'm retaking some courses (like physics and general chemistry) which I took in Sophie again to get over that apprehension Sophie left me with.

If you want to become a doctor become a doctor. It doesn't matter how many speed bumps or detours you have to take to get you there, just do it. If you want to become a nurse, then an NP then go to medical school, do it. You aren't the first to do so and you won't be the last. So it's possible. If you want to become a PA and then go to med school, do it. Same sentiment here.

Just know you can't be an NP without FIRST being a nurse. PA is essentially a bachelor's program. NP is a masters, and soon only a doctorate (doctorate in nursing DON) program.

 

[radian313]

I am in a similar situation. I was at SGU....had to withdraw due to health reasons and the fact my sister passed away and needed to be home to be here for family. I have all the documentation to back it up, including a letter from various deans.

IF these courses are considered medical school per say, then they are considered "professional" courses....which means they ARE NOT counted in your GPAs....HOWEVER they will still be looked at.....what weight they hold? I am not sure, I am not Ad Coms....but Ive been told by a few schools, as long as you were in good standing with your previous school....and you met the student profile....you would be considered....

Now in your care? Its tricky....clearly there were some setbacks in your prep for these examinations.....was there something more going on in terms of non school stuff, (i.e. personal life) that you can comment to adcoms and be honest about.....all things aisde....you would need a good MCAT and a good GPA.....grade replacement will be your best friend....depending on how many replacements youd need to do....your looking at anywhere from 1-2 years atleast of repair work....

But first thing is first, you need to find out if Sophie Davis is considered medical school? If it is, then its counted as professional grades....or atleast the courses that were the "MD" portion of it....

Graduate GPAs are calculated when you are working towards a PhD, Masters...etc....not professional degrees like (JD, PharmD, or MD, or DO).

And like others have said, if being a doctor is what you envisioned then go for it....but as rocky said it best "if you know your worth, go out and be what your worth, but you gotta be willing to take the hits". I know its a cliche, but every bit of its true.

Not too long ago I was laying on a bed, admitted in a third world country hospital, when I got the news I was told by my primary care doctor to withdraw from school citing health reasons.....and now I am just one MCAT score away from being back into the game....you gotta work at it....and I am sure you are willing to...so dont give up....no one said this was going to be easy....just take it on the chin and march forward...youll do fine...

Hope this helped.

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

@InNeedofAdvice538
I dropped out of Sophie with a 3.1 and got my BSN (GPA 3.7, science GPA 4.0) in 3 years at another university.
I remember the dean (A short little man, with black hair, he's no longer the dean) telling me I could take a year off for medical leave and come back. I couldn't stay in the program because I felt bullied and ostracized by my Sophie peers. My Sophie roommates were atrocious, and air headed. I explained all of those things to the dean, and he looked me directly in the eye and said "if you leave Sophie, you will NEVER become a doctor. As a poor, black female, this is your only opportunity, Sophie is all you have."
I left Sophie, went to City year round (summer, fall, winter and spring sessions) to make it look like I was still in the program to my family and friends. I never stepped foot back into another science class, and became a psychology major. Went from freshman to senior within the same year as a psych major. Then when I couldn't keep up the facade, I told my friends and family. Within a month I had packed my stuff up into my car, put in a last minute college app to some random, nobody university in Miami, where I knew no one, got accepted, and left New York. Long, dramatic story short, I put 2 years of course work into 3 semesters, (20-25 credits a semester) got accepted into their nursing school, did what I had to and graduated. Now I'm retaking some courses (like physics and general chemistry) which I took in Sophie again to get over that apprehension Sophie left me with.

If you want to become a doctor become a doctor. It doesn't matter how many speed bumps or detours you have to take to get you there, just do it. If you want to become a nurse, then an NP then go to medical school, do it. You aren't the first to do so and you won't be the last. So it's possible. If you want to become a PA and then go to med school, do it. Same sentiment here.

Just know you can't be an NP without FIRST being a nurse. PA is essentially a bachelor's program. NP is a masters, and soon only a doctorate (doctorate in nursing DON) program.

My goodness. You went through a lot. I know exactly how it is. I've also been told the same thing from my dean.
After all that I'm glad that you gave me some positive advice. It won't be easy though. My biggest challenge will be convincing any DO school that I can do it and that I deserve another chance. Something tells me getting good grades and a good MCAT will not be enough. I will need to go above and beyond....but I don't know what that is yet.

Now that you're a nurse will you be going the NP route or will you give medical school a shot again?

Thanks for your help.

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Now in your care? Its tricky....clearly there were some setbacks in your prep for these examinations.....was there something more going on in terms of non school stuff, (i.e. personal life) that you can comment to adcoms and be honest about.....all things aisde....you would need a good MCAT and a good GPA.....grade replacement will be your best friend....depending on how many replacements youd need to do....your looking at anywhere from 1-2 years atleast of repair work....

So sorry for your loss. That is a situation that will completely be understood especially since you have proof.

In terms of non-school stuff, I was diagnosed with a tumor during my second year, and needed two surgeries within a month. 1 minor and the other major. I needed a few months to recover and my school worked with me. But it threw me off.

My grades suffered immediately after the surgeries. It changed me....I had to get counseling and therapy for it. The tumor not only affected me physically but also mentally. Mentally more than anything by far.

Other than that...the commute was an issue for me as I mentioned before. Commuting 4+ hours daily didn't work for me. But I also did nothing about it when I could've. I didn't want to invest in an apartment.

Just to give alittle update on my grades:
Overall GPA was 3.417 and it now 3.454 since my grades have been submitted for the spring semester.

thank you for your help.

 

[Loveneko]

Good Mcat scores will certainly be your best friend. I read that 3.5, 3.6 the average gpa with an average mcat 30 ish. But don't quote me on that. It will arty least allow you to be interviewed. A friend of mine was conditionally accepted into U buffalo med with an mcat of 21. They have some post bacc program with guaranteed admission if you perform well and its free. It might be great for you and you should look into it.
Sorry if there are typos lol I'm at work ticking away on my phone. Pts r sleeping.

As for me i am going to give mcat a shot next year. Depending on my score and how i feel after this long arduous journey i will apply but only as a direct admit no Sophie type stuff. If i get in then thank you Lord this was for me. If not, i move on, become an NP. And be happy i was allowed to succeed in something i was good at.
I'm banking on med school though lol. Or even pa. There's a school associated with a HUGE level 1 trauma center here that has a PA program. I remember seeing the students when i did my Neuro rotation. They were hardcore. Might look into that too.
I've got more supporters for NP and recommendations the hooha. But nurses don't take too kindly to a nurse trying to board the medical ship.
Eh so is life. Shrug.

 

[Aerus]

Why do you think it will be different this time in a DO school? Medical school is fast pace. Period.

Are you sure you're passionate about being a doctor? Leaving Sophie Davis for bullying reasons is understandable, but leaving because you didn't think it was doable?

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Why do you think it will be different this time in a DO school? Medical school is fast pace. Period.

I know it is but Sophie Davis is faster. Sophie Davis is not the only way and it's not for everybody. It really isn't.

This time I would move closer to school and dedicate more time to studying. In hindsight I should've left the program earlier that way spending so much time there wouldn't be held against me...everyone looks at the negative side of it but I also see that I got through 4 years of it without enough studying. Plus I've been exposed to a lot in that time...

Becoming a doctor is all I envision at this point. I will continue to work on my GPA and try my best on the MCAT. I need to give this one last shot. I know odds are against me but I think I can do it.

 

[Loveneko]

Why do you think it will be different this time in a DO school? Medical school is fast pace. Period.

Are you sure you're passionate about being a doctor? Leaving Sophie Davis for bullying reasons is understandable, but leaving because you didn't think it was doable?

Just a mention. But Sophie is pretty hardcore for a fresh out of high school kid. They stuff biology, organic chemistry, calculus based physics, fiqws which is a HEAVY writing and reading course, and something like a intro to health professions class into one short semester. I remember the chemistry professor saying you all will learn in 6 weeks what journal students learn in 2 years. This is the reason i have organic chemistry with no General chemistry. The flaw in their program is that they do not attend to the fact that there is a serious disproportionate amount of preparedness among some of its students. I can personally say i was ill prepared because i graduated from a vocational high school and not a regular high school. So math, science and physics, while touched on in my school was not the focus. It's goal was to give workable skills to kids who might end dropping out, and would you know in my class of 250+ only 50 of us graduated from that high school. Now put someone like me up against someone from Bronx science or Stuyvesant where they have money out the hooha and can educate their kids for the sake of education and you can kind of predict what will happen.
As opposed to medical school, where students have had 4 years to prepare. To take required and enrichment classes. To volunteer and shadow, etc
Sophie does not give you that leisure. They throw you in the pot with nothing to fend the fires except the quality of your education, which depending on where you live in nyc may be SEVERELY inadequate, or exquisitely preselected.

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Just a mention. But Sophie is pretty hardcore for a fresh out of high school kid. They stuff biology, organic chemistry, calculus based physics, fiqws which is a HEAVY writing and reading course, and something like a intro to health professions class into one short semester. I remember the chemistry professor saying you all will learn in 6 weeks what journal students learn in 2 years. This is the reason i have organic chemistry with no General chemistry. The flaw in their program is that they do not attend to the fact that there is a serious disproportionate amount of preparedness among some of its students. I can personally say i was ill prepared because i graduated from a vocational high school and not a regular high school. So math, science and physics, while touched on in my school was not the focus. It's goal was to give workable skills to kids who might end dropping out, and would you know in my class of 250+ only 50 of us graduated from that high school. Now put someone like me up against someone from Bronx science or Stuyvesant where they have money out the hooha and can educate their kids for the sake of education and you can kind of predict what will happen.
As opposed to medical school, where students have had 4 years to prepare. To take required and enrichment classes. To volunteer and shadow, etc
Sophie does not give you that leisure. They throw you in the pot with nothing to fend the fires except the quality of your education, which depending on where you live in nyc may be SEVERELY inadequate, or exquisitely preselected.

Completely agree. It's a point that goes unnoticed....we were very young. Taking Medical School courses at 18-19 yo and at a faster pace then traditional medical school. What's the average age of students entering medical school? 25-26?
Sophie is doing it wrong and they're suffering because of it. Rumor is they're trying to open their own Medical School because associated Med schools want nothing to do with Sophie students. Sophie's reputation is declining.

I went to a regular New York public high-school. As a first generation college student, first from my mother's and father's side to attend a college, I had no one to guide me. I had the support but no one to give me the heads up.
Lots of students had siblings in the program and about 25% had parents who were doctors. Those had a great advantage.

 

[Loveneko]

Yes I've also heard that the relationships with some of the partner med schools are strained especially because of the immaturity and resistance of Sophie students to blend in with their colleagues. They stick to each other fiercely, and who can really blame them. In the eyes of some of the older med students they are still kids, and cliqued kids at that. Now that I'm older i can understand how the program was set up for some of us lesser prepared students to fail. Which almost makes me wonder why they chose us in the first place.
The school plan is flawed. It's designed to foster "preying mantises." They love you to your face and bite your head off when you turn away. See preying mantis mating ritual. I think it's a pretty good analogy.
Eh.

Funny side note, being a Sophie dropout is not a sentence to exile my banker at Chase on gun hill, my nursing supervisor in Yonkers and a nice handful of mysterious students at city college were all dropouts who had the same experience i did and were scarred and scared of medical school after it. Made me not feel so weak. A lot of people judge me haaaard for leaving, but i had a cracked constitution then. I was bullied in middle school, bullied in high school and i thought college would be my freedom and it wasn't. It was nice to have a system of friends around to remind me that the system was designed in that manner.
Makes me scared that that is how medicine is. And honestly, if it's a system of bullies i want no part of it. Nuh uh. Not worth my sanity. Pff i have mental illness in my family, definitely not looking for a trigger to get me to join the ranks.
Sorry I'm just blabbing

 

[GamerDoc]

Just a mention. But Sophie is pretty hardcore for a fresh out of high school kid. They stuff biology, organic chemistry, calculus based physics, fiqws which is a HEAVY writing and reading course, and something like a intro to health professions class into one short semester. I remember the chemistry professor saying you all will learn in 6 weeks what journal students learn in 2 years. This is the reason i have organic chemistry with no General chemistry. The flaw in their program is that they do not attend to the fact that there is a serious disproportionate amount of preparedness among some of its students. I can personally say i was ill prepared because i graduated from a vocational high school and not a regular high school. So math, science and physics, while touched on in my school was not the focus. It's goal was to give workable skills to kids who might end dropping out, and would you know in my class of 250+ only 50 of us graduated from that high school. Now put someone like me up against someone from Bronx science or Stuyvesant where they have money out the hooha and can educate their kids for the sake of education and you can kind of predict what will happen.
As opposed to medical school, where students have had 4 years to prepare. To take required and enrichment classes. To volunteer and shadow, etc
Sophie does not give you that leisure. They throw you in the pot with nothing to fend the fires except the quality of your education, which depending on where you live in nyc may be SEVERELY inadequate, or exquisitely preselected.

Sophie is tough. I 150% agree. Coming from an inner city relatively poor high school, I did not have a good science background as well. But I think it is not only how much work you put into it, but also your mindset. I have come in every semester thinking that I will get a 4.0. It may seem cocky, but I think a great mindset is half the battle. Even though I have only completed my first year here, I do think Sophie is doable. I am writing this for the HS kids, who are in almost the same shoes that we were in, that are maybe thinking about applying to sophie and maybe looking to these forums for some insight. I would hate for a post like this to deter them from applying. I really hope you get your situation sorted out. Do NOT let anyone deter you from being a doctor even if part of your motivation is prestige. Any motivation is good motivation!

 

[InNeedofAdvice538]

Sophie is tough. I 150% agree. Coming from an inner city relatively poor high school, I did not have a good science background as well. But I think it is not only how much work you put into it, but also your mindset. I have come in every semester thinking that I will get a 4.0. It may seem cocky, but I think a great mindset is half the battle. Even though I have only completed my first year here, I do think Sophie is doable. I am writing this for the HS kids, who are in almost the same shoes that we were in, that are maybe thinking about applying to sophie and maybe looking to these forums for some insight. I would hate for a post like this to deter them from applying. I really hope you get your situation sorted out. Do NOT let anyone deter you from being a doctor even if part of your motivation is prestige. Any motivation is good motivation!

It's not cocky at all...mindset is half the battle. Sophie is a great opportunity but it's not for everyone. Many would be better off going the traditional route.
Sophie is very doable...study groups is probably the best way to get through the program. Never tried it myself but those that worked together did very well. As a commuter I was on my own. Many commute and do well but it didn't work for me. Just a little heads up 3rd+4th years are tough...Pharmacology with Dr.Khasfi is very difficult. 20 kids failed it when I took it. Best of luck and enjoy the summer break!

 

[Loveneko]

If you are Sophie bound, this particular thread is a little chronicle of our experiences not a be all end all. Obviously Sophie is able to graduate students. Members of my cohort just graduated. I see their pictures on Facebook all over my timeline. I only watch but never say anything to them. I am proud of them though, even if they were never my friends. Because they completed what i intimately know is a daunting task and are headed for their last two years at a partner medical school.
But i did recruitment at my high school While i was there before they dissolved it. My high school is, or i should say WAS Jane Addams Vocational. Not john, Jane. Lol that always used to bug me. Yes Jane Addams is the high school that graduated students with chemistry and calculus credit that was actually just gym. The same one with the nursery for pregnant students in the basement. With metal detectors at every door because during my years a kid was shot in the face in the stairwell every single year and people were sneaking in guns strapped in their babies diaper. Saw one student do that one day, most hilariously sad thing ever. Safe to say my Sophie cohorts did not find it as funny. But maybe im not a good orator.
I didn't know what college was until my last year of high school because high school was my last stop. But then came Sophie, and it was a plate filled with golden fruit. It was the land of milk and honey, my way out of the ghetto to a promise land. I'd be with students who loved to learn, were team players, were a family. I mean i beamed at the dinner they held. I cried at orientation because it was literally like God had offered me heaven. I WISH i would have heard negative stories about Sophie. I wish someone who did not make it would've talked to me. I wish someone who had been bullied had spoken to me. I wish i had the opportunity to be a little let down about Sophie. Because then, when it fell from its pedestal, it would've have fallen from so far up.
I wish i went to summer bridge before i accepted my offer because it would have been glaringly clear to me that if i wasnt from one of their big five, Stuyvesant, queensbridge gateway , and Bronx science were some names, that i should've taken my little butt to Spelman like i had originally planned.
And that's the truth. Thats what i told my students. If this is the first negative thing you've ever heard about Sophie you need to look harder because this is not new and its not addressed for a reason and the dean himself told me that.
Shrug. Everything that glitters isnt gold

 

[GamerDoc]

Thanks and I heard Dr. Kashfi no longer teaches pharmacology.

And Loveneko that comparison between your school and "the big five" is one of the reasons why I almost quit sophie after the first semester.Being surrounded by kids from prep schools and specialized HSs was very intimidating. I thought there was no way I could compete. But then someone told me, how hard can it be everything is in the textbook. And I started reading every physics and chem textbook I could get my hand on to even that gap. Not being from one of the "big five schools" is not as much of a disadvantage as you think. After the first year, everyone is on the same playing field. I may even be on a better playing field because I learned how to work my a** off in order to ace classes that many of them could easily close their eyes and at least get A-'s. But I guess we will see.

I wish someone had told me something great about sophie. All I heard from my guidance counselor, my advisors, and my parents was "sophie is tough." "its not gonna be like HS" "do you think you can really do it" "try and get at least a C in your classes first year" "its ok if you don't make it through."All this just lowered my self confidence and almost screwed me over first semester.

Im totally not here to undermine your experiences at sophie. I am just here to show the other side and for students that are in the same situation I was in looking at these forums. I just want them to know that they can do it. This may also be the first positive thing that they hear about sophie.

 

[j4pac]

why the *&#& would anyone go to that school? What is the draw? Is it cheap? Or does it just exploit minorities into thinking that it is the only way? I'm confused.

 

[Loveneko]

why the *&#& would anyone go to that school? What is the draw? Is it cheap? Or does it just exploit minorities into thinking that it is the only way? I'm confused.

Lol
For me....Sophie was the school of my dreams, and a tiny bit faster than i had expected. Honestly there are many things about CCNY that are a huge draw like location, things to do, academia and price (i mean you cant beat 4k a year. After i was done with Pell and grants, i was being paid to attend school AND i had a full ride from the Bill Gates foundation in addition to that.
And my experience aside, Sophie had some great opportunities to network, lots of support like tutoring, mentoring and counselling set up (its effectiveness is questionable) and good class sizes.
Often i think about how i would do it again, if only i could do it at this age where i'm more secure in myself.

 

[Tigeracademy]

Can anyone else offer an opinion? My biggest worry is not having a school give me a chance because I already had my chance.

Go to central america in three years you will be a Doc.

 

[Tigeracademy]

Where did you get a mistaken idea like that?

Many became Np or PA after wall street went bust,it is a living and if your good and hardworking they will love you but in some places you are like the eternal resident doing all the stuff lazy attendings dont feel like doing.