Specialities for lazy people wanting relaxed 8-5 job (serious)

[zennythz]

First off, I'm sure this post will be met with many people saying "don't go into medicine", "you won't be a good doctor", "troll", etc. etc. If this is you, do us both a favor and keep moving. I'm not a troll and am seriously wanting some input.

I'm an M1 and am starting to think about specialities. Here are the specifications of my ideal speciality:
1. A consistent 8-5 job
2. When I finish up at 5 and come home, I prefer to be DONE. No more filling out paperwork, no more answering phone calls, just totally and completely done for the day.
3. Weekends are mine. Zero job-related work.
4. Prefer a relaxed workday where I don't feel like I'm running around constantly like a chicken with my head cut off. I like taking my time and working at a more leisurely pace.
5. Prefer talking and interacting with people
6. Must not be a super-competitive speciality to get into
7. Prefer residency to be tolerable (i.e. 40-60 hours a week in the hospital)
8. Good outlook for future
9. Once I hit that 200k mark, don't really care much about salary. And I think every single medical speciality out there has the potential to pull in a 200k income. Yes, even Peds.
10. Don't want to be a Pathologist

After doing some research of my own, I think Family Medicine and Psychiatry meet these criteria. What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

Thanks

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[sazerac]

And another PM&R specialist is born.

 

[Baller MD]

Family medicine can be hectic depending on your practice and job requirements.

 

[Wordead]

Occupational Health with the rest of the degenerates

 

[TwinsFan]

From what I've seen there isn't anything that fits the bill. Maybe once you've been practicing and go to part time you could pull this off, but at nowhere near 200k. Be a part time student health doc for university, maybe get 100-150k...

In all specialties there is ce, paperwork, and usually some call (1 weekend a month etc), and I've never heard of a residency that is 40hrs/wk, 60 yes.

 

[operaman]

First off, I'm sure this post will be met with many people saying "don't go into medicine", "you won't be a good doctor", "troll", etc. etc. If this is you, do us both a favor and keep moving. I'm not a troll and am seriously wanting some input.

I'm an M1 and am starting to think about specialities. Here are the specifications of my ideal speciality:
1. A consistent 8-5 job
2. When I finish up at 5 and come home, I prefer to be DONE. No more filling out paperwork, no more answering phone calls, just totally and completely done for the day.
3. Weekends are mine. Zero job-related work.
4. Prefer a relaxed workday where I don't feel like I'm running around constantly like a chicken with my head cut off. I like taking my time and working at a more leisurely pace.
5. Prefer talking and interacting with people
6. Must not be a super-competitive speciality to get into
7. Prefer residency to be tolerable (i.e. 40-60 hours a week in the hospital)
8. Good outlook for future
9. Once I hit that 200k mark, don't really care much about salary. And I think every single medical speciality out there has the potential to pull in a 200k income. Yes, even Peds.

After doing some research of my own, I think Family Medicine and Psychiatry meet these criteria. What do you guys think? Any other suggestions?

Thanks

To some extent, what you're looking for doesn't exist. You will inevitably have to compromise something on your list, and which one it is will determine your options. While it's good to be thinking about this stuff now, your list reads like someone with no work experience prior to med school and I think you're missing some really important considerations. You're also smart enough to know that no field can be all of these things all of the time.

So, I would look in to: PM&R, Path, Rads, Gas, Rad-Onc, EM, Family, psych, derm

None of them hit all your points, but then again you left off the most important thing of all:

10) Something where I actually like what I do

 

[zennythz]

Occupational Health with the rest of the degenerates

The only degenerate person on this thread thus far is you, as evidenced by your jumping to the conclusion that all Occupational Health professionals are degenerates.

 

[ACSurgeon]

palliative care (1 year fellowship after medicine/peds/neuro/other residency)

Problem is, no matter what specialty you choose, there will likely be some amount of weekend/night responsibilities, even if minimal.

 

[ERK123]

The only degenerate person on this thread thus far is you, as evidenced by your jumping to the conclusion that all Occupational Health professionals are degenerates.

I think you are missing a sense of humor.

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

So, I would look in to: PM&R, Path, Rads, Gas, Rad-Onc, EM, Family, psych, derm

I'd knock derm off that list unless OP is willing to put some serious work in as a student to get the scores, research and connections required.

As to family med, these are some of the busiest and hardest-working docs I know, with the amount of patients they're required to see. Maybe check out AtlasMD on the FM forums for more information on direct primary care; without a model like that you have little time to catch your breath during the day, let alone take your time.

 

[username456789]

I'd knock derm off that list unless OP is willing to put some serious work in as a student to get the scores, research and connections required.

As to family med, these are some of the busiest and hardest-working docs I know, with the amount of patients they're required to see. Maybe check out AtlasMD on the FM forums for more information on direct primary care; without a model like that you have little time to catch your breath during the day, let alone take your time.

That, and the pace of Derm practice is absolutely not laid back.

 

[Slack3r]

1. A consistent 8-5 job
2. When I finish up at 5 and come home, I prefer to be DONE. No more filling out paperwork, no more answering phone calls, just totally and completely done for the day.
3. Weekends are mine. Zero job-related work.
4. Prefer a relaxed workday where I don't feel like I'm running around constantly like a chicken with my head cut off. I like taking my time and working at a more leisurely pace.
5. Prefer talking and interacting with people
6. Must not be a super-competitive speciality to get into
7. Prefer residency to be tolerable (i.e. 40-60 hours a week in the hospital)
8. Good outlook for future
9. Once I hit that 200k mark, don't really care much about salary. And I think every single medical speciality out there has the potential to pull in a 200k income. Yes, even Peds.

#4 doesn't really exist in any specialty, so we'll ignore that. #2 and #3 will also be difficult, even if it's just answering phone calls. And I'm going to assume the paperwork burden isn't going down anytime soon.

Psych hits 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
FM hits 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and maybe 1.

 

[Brigade4Radiant]

FM is only 8-5 in terms of patients. With primary care you have to coordinate and manage care with all of the specialists that take care of your patient. You can make 170K working 4 days a week but even though your patients stop coming in at 5 you still have to chart so that means leaving around 7. You also have to have someone to take call for your patients in case they need a refill on their meds or for medical advise.

You can only really work at a leisurely pace if your patient's pay in cash or you own your own practice or join an independent practice. If you work for a hospital well they have you at your mercy but you don't have to work hard building a referral base

 

[NickNaylor]

#4 doesn't really exist in any specialty, so we'll ignore that. #2 and #3 will also be difficult, even if it's just answering phone calls. And I'm going to assume the paperwork burden isn't going down anytime soon.

Psych hits 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
FM hits 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and maybe 1.

#2-4 can apply to psych as well depending on how you set up your practice.

 

[DubVille]

You could do PM&R and have the lifestyle you want, but you will make a much lower salary. VA rehab docs see like 8-10 patients max a day in outpatient with no other responsibilities on calls or weekends. You would probably max at 200k after 5-10 years, but that would depend a bit on location. Residency will be 45-60 hours most places you go, but you obviously will be on call for nights and weekends and otherwise can expect to be leaving around 5 most days.
If you don't like the patient populations (which are broad) you will still hate it though. Good luck.

 

[Cinclus]

#2-4 can apply to psych as well depending on how you set up your practice.

Agreed. Psychiatry has the potential to cover nearly all of those .

 

[alpinism]

FM wouldn't be realistic based on your criteria.

1. You won't be working at a leisurely/relaxed pace. You'll be seeing as many patients as possible crammed into 15-20min blocks with most having multiple complex medical issues and complaints.
2. Nearly every FM doc I've worked with ends up spending 2-3 hrs every night/weekend doing charting and answering messages/phone calls.
3. You'll also have to keep up to date on the current medical guidelines and CME requirements. That means studying and attending conferences after normal business hours.

Psych will be the same or a little better lifestyle wise but will usually require night/weekend call responsibilities if you're affiliated with a hospital system.

What are you going to do if your patient attempts suicide on a Saturday night?

"Sorry bro I'm not coming in to the ED, its after normal business hours..."

You could go private practice, but then you'll have to deal with all the paperwork and administrative issues involved with running your own business.

Basically you're SOL.

 

[Jabbed]

PM&R for sure.

 

[IlDestriero]

PM&R
Psych
Anesthesia, if you can survive residency.

 

[sloh]

Pm&r

And as far as I'm concerned having finished interviewing at Pmr programs, most of the time on call you still get at least 5 hours of sleep. There are a couple exceptions with SOME programs to that rule

This is from a post by scironmike from the pain forums. This is an example of what's possible position if you go through Pmr residency and acquire a pain fellowship

http://www.forums.studentdoctor.net...r-vs.-Private-Practice.1117713/#post-16117136

"I left my academic practice at USC back in 2011 and joined Southern California Permanente Medical Group. I just made partner. For PM&R / pain, the current 4th year physician salary is about $290,000 / year (the pain stipend for finish a fellowshp is $42,000 / year). There is also a draw at the end of the year which is profit sharing with the group. This is generally another $10,000 to $20,000 depending on how the group does. The salary continues to go up every year until a max at year 12. After that, it is just adjustments based on market changes and also based on cost of living increases.

The benefits package is very nice. I pay $32 / month for $1,500,000 term life insurance (as I get older and the price goes up, the med group pays a larger percentage). Long term specialty specific disability is completely paid for. I'm able to invest $51,000 / year tax deferred in a 401K and a Keogh plan. I also have the option of a Roth 401k if I opt for it. Health, dental, and vision are completely covered for the family. I don't pay any premiums for health and dental insurance. I have no copays for any medical care. I will retire with 53% of my salary as a pension. My understanding is tha the pension plan is very well funded.

I work 4.5 days a week. I get a half day off every week for my own academic time. I'm only on call 1 in 10 weeks, and it is all from home. I've never been called after 7:30 PM. If I have to come in on the weekend to do a consult, I get paid for call-back. Currently I get 23 vacation days per year wtih another 5 days for conferences. Partners here for 10 years get something like 33 vacation days per year + 5 days for educational leave. We can acrue vacation up to 90 days, then we get cashed out at our typical hourly rate.

The practice of pain is pretty different at each Kaiser medical center. I've been VERY happy with my practice here at Kaiser Permanente Downey. My colleagues in PM&R, PM&R pain, and Anesthesia / pain management are REALLY great people and are excellent physicians. We have a lot of autonomy in patient care. In my department, we are seeing patients within 3-4 days of a referral. Patient satisfaction is high. I just got authorization to start performing PRP injections. Patients will be able to get PRP for their regular office co-pay. I get two half days a week of fluoro time. I also get to perform electrodiagnostic studies on a regular basis."

 

[DubVille]

Pm&r

And as far as I'm concerned having finished interviewing at Pmr programs, most of the time on call you still get at least 5 hours of sleep. There are a couple exceptions with SOME programs to that rule

This is from a post by scironmike from the pain forums. This is an example of what's possible position if you go through Pmr residency and acquire a pain fellowship

http://www.forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?threads/Kaiser-vs.-Private-Practice.1117713/#post-16117136

"I left my academic practice at USC back in 2011 and joined Southern California Permanente Medical Group. I just made partner. For PM&R / pain, the current 4th year physician salary is about $290,000 / year (the pain stipend for finish a fellowshp is $42,000 / year). There is also a draw at the end of the year which is profit sharing with the group. This is generally another $10,000 to $20,000 depending on how the group does. The salary continues to go up every year until a max at year 12. After that, it is just adjustments based on market changes and also based on cost of living increases.

The benefits package is very nice. I pay $32 / month for $1,500,000 term life insurance (as I get older and the price goes up, the med group pays a larger percentage). Long term specialty specific disability is completely paid for. I'm able to invest $51,000 / year tax deferred in a 401K and a Keogh plan. I also have the option of a Roth 401k if I opt for it. Health, dental, and vision are completely covered for the family. I don't pay any premiums for health and dental insurance. I have no copays for any medical care. I will retire with 53% of my salary as a pension. My understanding is tha the pension plan is very well funded.

I work 4.5 days a week. I get a half day off every week for my own academic time. I'm only on call 1 in 10 weeks, and it is all from home. I've never been called after 7:30 PM. If I have to come in on the weekend to do a consult, I get paid for call-back. Currently I get 23 vacation days per year wtih another 5 days for conferences. Partners here for 10 years get something like 33 vacation days per year + 5 days for educational leave. We can acrue vacation up to 90 days, then we get cashed out at our typical hourly rate.

The practice of pain is pretty different at each Kaiser medical center. I've been VERY happy with my practice here at Kaiser Permanente Downey. My colleagues in PM&R, PM&R pain, and Anesthesia / pain management are REALLY great people and are excellent physicians. We have a lot of autonomy in patient care. In my department, we are seeing patients within 3-4 days of a referral. Patient satisfaction is high. I just got authorization to start performing PRP injections. Patients will be able to get PRP for their regular office co-pay. I get two half days a week of fluoro time. I also get to perform electrodiagnostic studies on a regular basis."

In a pain practice to make that kind of money you will be churning through patients. Sounds like a great gig, but that's not the average job out there. I will echo that this year in my 24 hour call shifts my worst night was 4 hours of sleep covering up to 43 patients. On average I get 5-6 hours and then post call day off.

 

[qw098]

And another PM&R specialist is born.

You think PM&R will soon be the next competitive speciality?

 

[PL198]

this is a copy and paste from an old post. I remember someone mentioning essentially the same exact thing and used the exact phrase " running around like a chicken without my head."

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

That, and the pace of Derm practice is absolutely not laid back.

Wat

It's only not laid back if you want to keep your 400k salary afloat. A dermatologist could easily work dentist type 4.5 day/wk hours and still make 200k+

 

[username456789]

Wat

It's only not laid back if you want to keep your 400k salary afloat. A dermatologist could easily work dentist type 4.5 day/wk hours and still make 200k+

You're completely missing the point.

Those 4.5 days are performed at breakneck speed in just about any private practice.

 

[Wordead]

 

[DubVille]

You think PM&R will soon be the next competitive speciality?

It is getting more competitive, but I don't think it will ever be much over "average." It isn't life-saving sexy work, isn't really that high paid (don't work many hours so the hourly rate is decent), isn't well known, and may have lower "prestige" if you care about that stuff.

That said I've not met a bitter or angry physiatrist yet, including residents.

 

[zennythz]

Thanks for all the great responses so far! Seems like PM&R is the overwhelming favorite, followed by Psychiatry.

FM wouldn't be realistic based on your criteria.

1. You won't be working at a leisurely/relaxed pace. You'll be seeing as many patients as possible crammed into 15-20min blocks with most having multiple complex medical issues and complaints.
2. Nearly every FM doc I've worked with ends up spending 2-3 hrs every night/weekend doing charting and answering messages/phone calls.
3. You'll also have to keep up to date on the current medical guidelines and CME requirements. That means studying and attending conferences after normal business hours.

Psych will be the same or a little better lifestyle wise but will usually require night/weekend call responsibilities if you're affiliated with a hospital system.

What are you going to do if your patient attempts suicide on a Saturday night?

"Sorry bro I'm not coming in to the ED, its after normal business hours..."

You could go private practice, but then you'll have to deal with all the paperwork and administrative issues involved with running your own business.

Basically you're SOL.

Can anyone else confirm if the above depiction of FM/Psych is true? Do FM docs really spend 2-3 hours after work every evenings on paperwork and other followup work? And is it true that their days are not very leisurely, and that they're constantly in a rush?

As for the depiction of Psychiatry, if someone killing themselves is the only reason you'd be coming in after-hours, then you probably wouldn't be coming in very often...right?...I hope?

Also, I'm kind of surprised that Radiology hasn't been mentioned much...

And what about Neurology? How is those guys' residency and life afterwards?

 

[awared2]

It is getting more competitive, but I don't think it will ever be much over "average." It isn't life-saving sexy work, isn't really that high paid (don't work many hours so the hourly rate is decent), isn't well known, and may have lower "prestige" if you care about that stuff.

That said I've not met a bitter or angry physiatrist yet, including residents.

The one PMR attending I shadowed bitched out an IM resident for an inappropriate consult right in front of me.. So who knows

 

[DrBowtie]

Thanks for all the great responses so far! Seems like PM&R is the overwhelming favorite, followed by Psychiatry.



Can anyone else confirm if the above depiction of FM/Psych is true? Do FM docs really spend 2-3 hours after work every evenings on paperwork and other followup work? And is it true that their days are not very leisurely, and that they're constantly in a rush?

As for the depiction of Psychiatry, if someone killing themselves is the only reason you'd be coming in after-hours, then you probably wouldn't be coming in very often...right?...I hope?

Also, I'm kind of surprised that Radiology hasn't been mentioned much...

And what about Neurology? How is those guys' residency and life afterwards?

You're going to work evenings and weekends in radiology unless you work a 100% mammo job.

 

[DubVille]

Well there is one. Lol.
We do get some inappropriate consults, mostly because few people know what we do. It can be frustrating to get consults for max assist, demented patients, with no family support, etc that want to dump patients. But you get paid for inappropriate consults too.

 

[tiedyeddog]

Pm&r.

 

[Mad Jack]

Urgent care.

 

[medstudent7860]

What does PM&R do?

 

[Mad Jack]

Thanks for all the great responses so far! Seems like PM&R is the overwhelming favorite, followed by Psychiatry.



Can anyone else confirm if the above depiction of FM/Psych is true? Do FM docs really spend 2-3 hours after work every evenings on paperwork and other followup work? And is it true that their days are not very leisurely, and that they're constantly in a rush?

As for the depiction of Psychiatry, if someone killing themselves is the only reason you'd be coming in after-hours, then you probably wouldn't be coming in very often...right?...I hope?

Also, I'm kind of surprised that Radiology hasn't been mentioned much...

And what about Neurology? How is those guys' residency and life afterwards?

If you're doing outpatient psych you probably won't pass 40 hours by much each week, and if you are it's because you want to. Neurology will have longer hours 9 out of 10 times. FM you will run around like a chicken with your head cut off. Psych, PM&R, derm, and A&I are your best bets if you're looking for the 9-5.

 

[DubVille]

What does PM&R do?

http://www.aapmr.org/patients/aboutpmr/pages/faqs.aspx

 

[Morzh]

Urgent care.

I almost said the same, but remember that urgent care hours are busiest evenings and weekends, so I imagine a M-F 8-5 only gig may be hard to come by.

 

[deleted500612]

Specialties for lazy people wanting relaxed 8-5 job

I think you picked the wrong career.

 

[joker2400]

FM residency then prison physician

 

[Morzh]

"Talking and interacting with interesting people". Does that have to be patients? What about "interesting" coworkers? Pathology hasn't been mentioned, I think that fits most of your requirements (or at least can). Maybe you will diagnose cancer on histology slides, or maybe you'll run a transfusion center. Or maybe you'll be a forensic pathologist and work for some municipality.

If day-to-day patient interaction isn't a must then a career in research may be an option, if your passionate about it. Or an industry job with insurance or pharm.

FM +/- palliative care fellowship, you could be a medical director for a nursing home or hospice agency.

 

[Dave89]

Pathology.

 

[Lysinee]

Thanks for all the great responses so far! Seems like PM&R is the overwhelming favorite, followed by Psychiatry.



Can anyone else confirm if the above depiction of FM/Psych is true? Do FM docs really spend 2-3 hours after work every evenings on paperwork and other followup work? And is it true that their days are not very leisurely, and that they're constantly in a rush?

As for the depiction of Psychiatry, if someone killing themselves is the only reason you'd be coming in after-hours, then you probably wouldn't be coming in very often...right?...I hope?

Also, I'm kind of surprised that Radiology hasn't been mentioned much...

And what about Neurology? How is those guys' residency and life afterwards?

Radiology has some call and weekend shifts. Using RadiHoliday to describe radiology isn't applicable these days.

 

[dwills]

Path, Psych, and PM&R as everyone has said

 

[zennythz]

I think you picked the wrong career.

I think you failed to read the first sentence of my original post. If you chose to post that comment even after reading that sentence, well then thanks for the pointless observation.

 

[J ROD]

I think Psychiatry would be your best option. Esp since you said liked talking to patients.

PM&R would be second.

All the rest are the decent options mentioned too. Not FM, Anes, Rads, Derm

 

[zennythz]

"Talking and interacting with interesting people". Does that have to be patients? What about "interesting" coworkers? Pathology hasn't been mentioned, I think that fits most of your requirements (or at least can). Maybe you will diagnose cancer on histology slides, or maybe you'll run a transfusion center. Or maybe you'll be a forensic pathologist and work for some municipality.

If day-to-day patient interaction isn't a must then a career in research may be an option, if your passionate about it. Or an industry job with insurance or pharm.

FM +/- palliative care fellowship, you could be a medical director for a nursing home or hospice agency.

On the whole, I think this is great advice. However, for me personally, I should add--unfortunately--that I'm not interested in being a Pathologist and have ABSOLUTELY no interest in research.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

PM&R
Psych
Anesthesia, if you can survive residency.

Would anesthesia satisfy point #8?

 

[zennythz]

I think Psychiatry would be your best option. Esp since you said liked talking to patients.

PM&R would be second.

All the rest are the decent options mentioned too. Not FM, Anes, Rads, Derm

Right on. I'm starting to think Psych is my best bet too. What's the job market like for private-practice Psychiatrists? Also, what might be some pros/cons of being a private-practice Psychiatrist vs. a hospital employee?

 

[zennythz]

Would anesthesia satisfy point #9?

Not sure if you're being tongue-in-cheek, but definitely yes lol. More so than any other speciality mentioned in this thread so far (with the exception of Rads, perhaps).

 

[username456789]

There are plenty of things about Dermatology that make it a great specialty, but a "leisurely pace" is absolutely not one of them.