Speciality that is Family Friendly

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sdelucia

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Hello!

I am a senior in college who will be attending medical school in the fall. My whole life I've wanted to be a surgeon but as I get older, I've come to realize that's not all I want. I am currently engaged to my boyfriend of 8 years who I plan to marry and have children with. I was just curious to which speciality (preferably surgical ones), if any, are more family friendly.

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Hello!

I am a senior in college who will be attending medical school in the fall. My whole life I've wanted to be a surgeon but as I get older, I've come to realize that's not all I want. I am currently engaged to my boyfriend of 8 years who I plan to marry and have children with. I was just curious to which speciality (preferably surgical ones), if any, are more family friendly.

Can I ask why surgery? What about it is interesting to you? That would probably help people point you in a direction. Outside of OR surgery there are areas that emphasize patient procedures while remaining in set hours.
 
Plastics and ENT can have reasonable hours post residency.
image.png


Edit: FYI, there is an error on this chart. Neurosurgery should have been the second or third specialty listed from the top. But it was mistakenly placed below Ob/gyn.
 
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Derm. They do a lot of skin cancer excisions.
 
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Hello!

I am a senior in college who will be attending medical school in the fall. My whole life I've wanted to be a surgeon but as I get older, I've come to realize that's not all I want. I am currently engaged to my boyfriend of 8 years who I plan to marry and have children with. I was just curious to which speciality (preferably surgical ones), if any, are more family friendly.

Unfortunately, most surgical specialties are notoriously NOT family friendly. Partly because of the work itself, and partly because of the longer residencies.
 
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Hello!

I am a senior in college who will be attending medical school in the fall. My whole life I've wanted to be a surgeon but as I get older, I've come to realize that's not all I want. I am currently engaged to my boyfriend of 8 years who I plan to marry and have children with. I was just curious to which speciality (preferably surgical ones), if any, are more family friendly.

The most family friendly thing you can do is have an egalitarian relationship with your future spouse in such that you both agree that taking care of future children is BOTH your responsibilities, and not Mainly Yours simply because you are female. Get that right and all doors are open to you. Carry the guilt banner and no specialty is family-friendly enough.
 
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Technically any surgical specialty can be family friendly once out in practice depending on the work environment. That practice environment includes the ability to set your own hours, a generous call schedule with few emergencies requiring going into the hospital after hours, etc.

You are not going to find flexibility in residency training so what follows assumes completion of surgical training in the usual fashion.

Practically finding such a position requires flexibility on your part (i.e., as an employer, I'm not particularly interested in a part time partner because many of the expenses are fixed, but the income would be less); you may have to give away geographic concerns, consider that working less means less income etc. There are fewer of these types of jobs available so it may require some "out of the box" thinking on your and your potential future employer's end.

However, that being said I have many friends and colleagues who are female surgeons with children. The commonality between all of them however, is a spouse/partner with a flexible job. Unfortunately, delays and unexpected events are the norm in surgery, even more family friendly ones. You cannot be counted on to pick up the kids on a day when you're in the operating room as your case may be bumped, your patient may not do well, etc., all requiring you to stay later than you planned. When my business partner's boys were very young, I picked them up from daycare/pre-school on many many occasions until she figured out she needed to talk with her husband and family about more flexible pick up arrangements when she was operating.

Thus, all surgical specialties can be made flexible but it will require a spouse who perhaps does more than 50% of the childcare/household duties and you either accepting less than ideal employment circumstances to achieve your goals or being able to move.
 
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The most family friendly thing you can do is have an egalitarian relationship with your future spouse in such that you both agree that taking care of future children is BOTH your responsibilities, and not Mainly Yours simply because you are female. Get that right and all doors are open to you. Carry the guilt banner and no specialty is family-friendly enough.
Thank you for your input! My future husband will be going into education so his job is far more flexible than mine and I have made it clear that a team effort will be needed when it comes to the children.
 
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Don't forget academia. Residency and fellowship are inflexible, but if you are interested in being a clinician-scientist, your hours can be very flexible for the times that you are not on service (50-80% of the time). Of course, you'll be working from home after bedtime a lot, but for a lot of people (myself included) that is a very worthwhile trade-off for being able to come home for dinner most nights.

Also, you will need to become one with the concept of nannies, particularly if surgery is in your future. Even if your spouse has a "flexible schedule", if they are serious about their career then having a nanny is a great safety valve to prevent burn-out and resentment.
 
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Sorry for the length:

I agree with @wingedscapula completely, but I would like to emphasize a few points: First, it is very likely that with more exposure to various specialties, you may change your mind about the specialty that you're interested in. With more exposure, you may decide that you don't like surgery after all. Next, I agree completely that if you will be having children, you will need a flexible spouse. Many, but not all, of the female surgeons that I work with have stay-at-home husbands. That's not absolutely necessary, but it helps. Otherwise, you will need a grandparent who is available 24/7 for emergencies, or an extremely reliable nanny. There are services available that you can sign up with that will provide drop-in day care or nannies on an urgent basis, but they generally don't keep surgeon's hours. What worked best for us was a daycare ( ours was on the grounds of a medical center, although I didn't work there ) that allowed drop-offs as early as 6 am, and closed at 6 pm. It sounds like your husband will be available for drop offs and pickups, so I suggest you look into that option. It's expensive, but in my opinion, it was far better for the kids than a nanny, a grandparent, or parents, because they were kept busy, socalized all day, and got a great pre-school education. Ours was a large, well regulated, and highly professional facility, and was the best of many that we looked at. Our youngest was there from 7 weeks of age until kindergarten. As you will see, though, if a child is ill, everything falls apart, and someone will need to stay home with the child. If you're a surgeon, it can't be you.

There won't be a good time to have kids, but you definitely want to start by 30, because fertility starts to drop off precipitously after 35, and you don't want to wait until then to start trying, because if you end up needing fertility treatments, it may be too late. Many of the surgeons I know sought infertility treatment, not always successfully. You options on when to have kids are all bad: during the pre-clinical years is bad, the clinical years are worse, internship even worse, later in residency bad, and of course, it's really bad when you're starting your practice. So, any time ends up being as good as another.

While almost any surgical specialty can be fully elective when you get into practice, your residency will be at least 5 years, and they will be more intensive, stressful, and time consuming than non-surgical residencies . You really won't have much time for your children as a resident, but you will get a better look at the lifestyle as a med student.

I agree with the poster above that you should consider derm. They do small procedures ( not at all surgery by a surgeon's standards ) but if you can do derm and a Mohs fellowship, you would be doing very challenging skin reconstruction procedures in your office. However, derm is extremely competitive, and a Mohs fellowship afterwards very hard to get into as well. But then, the surgical specialties are just as hard to get into, especially ortho, ENT, and plastics.

Regardless of your specialty, if you are employed in a very large group, you will have more regular hours. In the large groups I'm familiar with, medicine and pedes took no call, so those doctors worked 9-5. They earn less, and aren't surgeons, but you might find that lifestyle trumps specialty. Even in large groups, surgeons took a lot of call, and generally could not opt out of call or design their practices to be lifestyle friendly. So I think non-surgeons have better lifestyles in a group, but not so for surgeons.

If you do decide to be a surgeon, for example, you could do general surgery and specialize in breast, which will have close to no emergencies. However, it might be hard to set up such a practice. In your early years, when you will need better hours the most, you will have less flexibility in your practice. Ortho can be elective as well. Just do elective joint replacements, or elective hand, etc. But it will take a while to finish residency and fellowships, and again, when you look for a job, the groups you join will want you to take call. And setting up your own practice will take time and require you to do emergencies if you want money.
Plastic surgery is the same. If your goal is to do cosmetic surgery, you'll have a lot of competition, and you'll need to do a lot of emergency reconstructions for many years before you can have an elective practice. Even then, and in any specialty, patients can go bad post op and require you to go back to the OR in the middle of the night. By the time your practice can be fully elective, regardless of specialty, you will be several years into practice and your kids may already be grown.

You'll have to see what you like, but I would consider the lifestyle specialties: derm, psych, PM&R, radiation oncology, radiology, or psych or neurology or medicine followed by a sleep medicine fellowship ( the best kept secret in medicine ). I'm sure I'm missing some. You don't want to spend your whole life regretting that you didn't go into surgery, but you don't want to regret not seeing your kids grow up, either. I would pick the kids,, but that's just me.
 
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How is General Practice different from Family Practice?
For all intents and purposes, General Practice no longer exists in the US.

Since the advent of Family Medicine residencies and increasing training and licensing requirements, the days of doing an internship year and hanging up a shingle as a GP is no longer a viable option for most. Thus, a GP in the United States usually refers to someone doing a broad based non-surgical practice without having completed specialty training, or someone doing a GMO tour in the military. Family Practice or Family Medicine is a recognized specialty with its own board.

Note that in the UK and other Commonwealth countries there exists a training scheme for GP.
 
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Kudos to @bc65 for highlighting some of the common problems with a busy career and children that most young people don't fully understand. Because they are so important, I'm going to repeat them.

Most day care centers are not open longer than 12 hours. As a surgical resident, you will likely work more than 12 hours per day and/or have to be at the hospital before 6 am and/or after 6 pm. Someone else (your business partner? LOL) will have to be responsible to pick up the kids. You can't make it? Tough ****. They either call CPS/police if you're late or charge a ridiculous fee (I think my partner's place was something like $25 every minute you were late).

As noted above, if your child is sick he can't go to day care. He also can't stay home alone. You can't call all of your patients and cancel their cases or rebook those office appointments they've been waiting weeks for. Your husband will have to be the one who stays home with the child. You do not have a job you can call in sick for. Non-medical families have a very hard time understanding that.

If your child gets sick at day care or school, someone has to drop everything and go pick him up. All of my staff have small children and a couple of times a month, someone's kid is puking at day care/school and they have to leave to go get them and take them home. That won't be you. Frankly, sometimes I wish I had the kind of job where I could call in sick. LOL

My experience is that my schedule is better in a larger single specialty group; there are now 6 of us to split call rather than just 2. Technically we are now part of a large multi-specialty oncology group but non-surgeons can't take call for surgeons and you don't want me calling in chemo orders.

Lastly, you have a long time before you need to decide about your future career and its promising that your spouse is understanding that you will need a "team effort". What he needs to understand is that his contribution to the team is going to exceed 50%.
 
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I know people in certain sub specialties ( optho, uro, ENT) that have pretty decent hours. But I think it depends on what you mean by family friendly. Can you get to a point where you are working 50 hours a week plus periodic call? Sure. But not in residency, fellowship or the first few years of your career. Can you get to the point where you won't need a nanny or daycare, are home when the bus pulls up every afternoon, and won't have to work at least some overnights or weekends in surgery? Not as likely.

I think if you want a high powered intense career you have accept that it comes with high powered intense hours. People make it work but it inevitably involves family, nannies, daycare and maybe putting off childbirth until later in the game.
 
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image.jpeg

OP, FWIW, physiatrists often work with patients who need surgery (ortho, neuro, vascular, oncology, etc) pre-op and post-op. PM&R is definitely worth considering.
 
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Thanks for all your input, I really appreciate it more than you know! I'm very interested in plastics and I know thats not ideal for a family(better than neuro though which was my original plan). I guess I will have to just wait and see how I feel during med school. I do like psych but it doesn't get me as excited as surgery does. I am a planner so its hard for me not to have an exact plan.
 
Thank you for your input! My future husband will be going into education so his job is far more flexible than mine and I have made it clear that a team effort will be needed when it comes to the children.
I agree that it is important that you divide the work fairly. That being said, anyone with a family will tell you, it is physically impossible to split things 50/50. You just do the best you can, and communicate. One partner is going to be doing a little more domestic work, even if its just a bit. Thing is, that tends to be the female. In your situation, considering your and your partner's professions, that really can't be the case.

Is your partner ok with being the one doing more house work if needed? Are you ok sacrificing family time for school or work, and taking time off of work (and potentially stalling your career) when needed?

Also, careful family planning will get you far. Planning the timing and properly preparing for your pregnancies can make things a lot easier.
 
I hear neurosurgery is pretty chillax

1) only operate on brain which is like ~2% of body mass ergo. learning the anatomy is easy (just refer spine to ortho)

2) 7 year residency --> same amount of stuff but you have a lot longer to learn it which makes it easier

3) 2 of those years are "research" years i.e. just sleep in and drink beer all day while you get students to do your work

4) you make $$$megabucks$$$ so your bf/fiance/husband doesn't have to work and can take care of the kids

5) only like 10% are women so you're URM and thus easy to match into

6) known as a "lifestyle" surgical specialty because neurosurgery is your lifestyle (i think thats what that means)

hope i helped!
 
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I hear neurosurgery is pretty chillax

1) only operate on brain which is like ~2% of body mass ergo. learning the anatomy is easy (just refer spine to ortho)

2) 7 year residency --> same amount of stuff but you have a lot longer to learn it which makes it easier

3) 2 of those years are "research" years i.e. just sleep in and drink beer all day while you get students to do your work

4) you make $$$megabucks$$$ so your bf/fiance/husband doesn't have to work and can take care of the kids

5) only like 10% are women so you're URM and thus easy to match into

6) known as a "lifestyle" surgical specialty because neurosurgery is your lifestyle (i think thats what that means)

hope i helped!


Thanks for the laugh!
 
I hear neurosurgery is pretty chillax

1) only operate on brain which is like ~2% of body mass ergo. learning the anatomy is easy (just refer spine to ortho)

2) 7 year residency --> same amount of stuff but you have a lot longer to learn it which makes it easier

3) 2 of those years are "research" years i.e. just sleep in and drink beer all day while you get students to do your work

4) you make $$$megabucks$$$ so your bf/fiance/husband doesn't have to work and can take care of the kids

5) only like 10% are women so you're URM and thus easy to match into

6) known as a "lifestyle" surgical specialty because neurosurgery is your lifestyle (i think thats what that means)

hope i helped!
Fo' real. Their curriculum is super-easy!
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/attachments/ns-resident-currriculum-doc.186113/
 
I'm very interested in plastics and I know thats not ideal for a family(better than neuro though which was my original plan).

I don't want to mislead you. Plastic surgery certainly can be more family-friendly than most surgical specialties, but you will have lots of big emergencies and complex reconstructions, especially as a resident. Microsurgical and other complex reconstructions can take 8-12 hours or more, and usually run late. They frequently have to go back to the OR in the middle of the night. You treat a lot of trauma. Replanting fingers or hands can take as long or longer in some cases. Plastics can do conjoined twins, facial transplants, and similar cases. I saw a plastic case that was booked for 36 hours (multiple services involved ). They finished sooner, though, in only 34 hours. You don't have to do those big cases in private practice, in fact you won't want to, as poor reimbursement makes doing such cases financial losses for the surgeon, but residency will be at least 6 years, and fellowships afterwards are quite common, as are extra research years in med school and during residency. That's no different than ortho, perhaps, but residency will still be long and hard. Also, orthopedic surgeons earn significantly more than plastic surgeons. Perhaps not enough to make you pursue a specialty you hate, but enough to make you think hard about it. If you see yourself ending up doing hand surgery, I would go with ortho rather than plastics. But I will reiterate my earlier suggestion: Derm and then Mohs. Not only is it very challenging and rewarding surgery, with a complete overlap with plastic surgery, but you do it sitting down, in your office, under local, and you get paid better than almost any surgeon. Actually, from what I hear, the Mohs surgeons who gear their practice to making more money will rival neurosurgery and spine salalries. Plus, the most lucrative cosmetic procedures per unit of time are definitely the less invasive procedures that derm specializes in, such as botox, peels, collagen type injections, and laser treatments.

But yes, plastic surgery is way better than neurosurgery.

And as for the suggestions about waiting to have kids, or using family planning. The problem is that there's no good time to have children until you've been in practice 5 years or so, and by then you will be 37 or 38, which might already be too late to have kids. Even if you can have one or two, you won't have time for 3 or 4 if that's what you decide you want. So you'll just have to have the children sooner and deal with it, or take the risk of not having kids at all later. Be sure to seek out senior women students and residents and attendings with kids and see what they suggest.
 
Plastics and ENT can have reasonable hours post residency.
View attachment 197309

Edit: FYI, there is an error on this chart. Neurosurgery should have been the second or third specialty listed from the top. But it was mistakenly placed below Ob/gyn.

What's the baseline hours for family practice?
 
Plastics and ENT can have reasonable hours post residency.
View attachment 197309

Edit: FYI, there is an error on this chart. Neurosurgery should have been the second or third specialty listed from the top. But it was mistakenly placed below Ob/gyn.


I like how the chart includes "pulmonary critical care" and "pediatric emergency medicine", but not "anesthesia".
 
I like how the chart includes "pulmonary critical care" and "pediatric emergency medicine", but not "anesthesia".
Thats because they've been replaced by midlevels and thus aren't even on the chart anymore.

zing!

Edit: to add on to what Cyberdyne said, Neurosurgery should be 688 and thus ranked in the number 3 position
 
I don't want to mislead you. Plastic surgery certainly can be more family-friendly than most surgical specialties, but you will have lots of big emergencies and complex reconstructions, especially as a resident. Microsurgical and other complex reconstructions can take 8-12 hours or more, and usually run late. They frequently have to go back to the OR in the middle of the night. You treat a lot of trauma. Replanting fingers or hands can take as long or longer in some cases. Plastics can do conjoined twins, facial transplants, and similar cases. I saw a plastic case that was booked for 36 hours (multiple services involved ). They finished sooner, though, in only 34 hours. You don't have to do those big cases in private practice, in fact you won't want to, as poor reimbursement makes doing such cases financial losses for the surgeon, but residency will be at least 6 years, and fellowships afterwards are quite common, as are extra research years in med school and during residency. That's no different than ortho, perhaps, but residency will still be long and hard. Also, orthopedic surgeons earn significantly more than plastic surgeons. Perhaps not enough to make you pursue a specialty you hate, but enough to make you think hard about it. If you see yourself ending up doing hand surgery, I would go with ortho rather than plastics. But I will reiterate my earlier suggestion: Derm and then Mohs. Not only is it very challenging and rewarding surgery, with a complete overlap with plastic surgery, but you do it sitting down, in your office, under local, and you get paid better than almost any surgeon. Actually, from what I hear, the Mohs surgeons who gear their practice to making more money will rival neurosurgery and spine salalries. Plus, the most lucrative cosmetic procedures per unit of time are definitely the less invasive procedures that derm specializes in, such as botox, peels, collagen type injections, and laser treatments.

But yes, plastic surgery is way better than neurosurgery.

And as for the suggestions about waiting to have kids, or using family planning. The problem is that there's no good time to have children until you've been in practice 5 years or so, and by then you will be 37 or 38, which might already be too late to have kids. Even if you can have one or two, you won't have time for 3 or 4 if that's what you decide you want. So you'll just have to have the children sooner and deal with it, or take the risk of not having kids at all later. Be sure to seek out senior women students and residents and attendings with kids and see what they suggest.
The diversity of cases in plastics is one of the things that draws me to it. I have done some reading into mohs and it seems like an ideal fit. I will definitely be keeping that in mind. As far as having kids, I agree that having them earlier is better. I only want 1-2 so it works for me to do it this way. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply!
 
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The diversity of cases in plastics is one of the things that draws me to it. I have done some reading into mohs and it seems like an ideal fit. I will definitely be keeping that in mind. As far as having kids, I agree that having them earlier is better. I only want 1-2 so it works for me to do it this way. I really appreciate you taking the time to reply!
About a quarter of US seniors failed to match in Derm (111/463).
About 30% failed to match into Plastics 52/178.
http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Charting-Outcomes-2014-Final.pdf
Go into medicine with an open mind. Pre-supposing your fitness for a particular specialty is not recommended. Even excellent students will find some doors closed to them.
 
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Don't be misled by the diversity of cases. While that diversity is real, you will eventually end up focusing on one area or sub area. Craniofacial surgery, microsurgery , and maxillofacial surgery, along with (complex) hand surgery, is rarely done by plastic surgeons who didn't do fellowships in those areas and who don't devote their practices to them, and such practices are rare, even in academic settings. Most of those fellowship trained surgeons will end up doing general plastic surgery.

And it's worth re-emphasizing what @gyngyn said above, which echoes what I wrote earlier: to be competitive in derm, plastics, and ortho, as well as urology and ENT, you need to be in the top 10-20% of the class, with commensurate step 1 scores, and have substantial publications. So if you are interested in those fields, it's an advantage to know early on so that you can get the credentials that you need, but you may not be successful in getting the grades to be competitive, and even if you are competitive, you may not get in. That said, I don't know how many of the unsuccessful applicants to those specialties were really competitive in the first place. Regardless, there's a lot of self-selection going on. If residency slots were available for the asking, half the class would go into derm, plastic surgery, and ortho.

If you can settle for not being a surgeon, anesthesia and ER can be family friendly in that they have regular hours. Both specialties, along with radiology, are very amenable to part time work and gaps in employment, as there's no patient follow-up or continuity of care required, and you're always an employee in one form or another. However, they usually require working night shifts, and that can require your spouse to be available when you're working nights. You won't always be home to put the kids to bed or wake them up. ER might provide enough procedures to satisfy you, although it's far from real surgery, and there's a very high burn-out rate, for good reason. If you do Medicine and Pedes, working for a large group will have minimal to no call, especially since the ER and hospitalists take care of the really ill patients.

Another thing to keep in mind is that while residencies tend to have worse hours than actual practice, there too, the residencies in the more lifestyle-friendly specialties will be much easier than those in, say, surgery. So you might be able to make life as a surgeon work in practice, but you might not be able to tolerate the 5 or 6 years of residency. But residency in anesthesia, ER, and radiology can have a lifestyle more similar to practice, with predictable hours. Even pedes and medicine residencies will be much easier than surgery.
 
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Just chiming in here, but there is an Optho doc I'll be shadowing soon. He works ~25 hours a week as a part-timer and is still pulling in lots of $. He spends a lot of time with his two children, which is why he took the part-time gig.
 
That said, I don't know how many of the unsuccessful applicants to those specialties were really competitive in the first place. Regardless, there's a lot of self-selection going on. If residency slots were available for the asking, half the class would go into derm, plastic surgery, and ortho.
.
In Plastics, 22 applicants with Step1 scores >241 didn't match, Ortho: 74, Derm, 55. In Derm there were 6 applicants with a score over 260 that did not match.
In general, as you noted these are self-selected to be very strong applicants. Some have done research years in their field of interest and even with productivity, did not find a seat.
 
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In Plastics, 22 applicants with Step1 scores >241 didn't match, Ortho: 74, Derm, 55. In Derm there were 6 applicants with a score over 260 that did not match. In general, as you noted these are self-selected to be very strong applicants. Some have done research years in their field of interest and even with productivity, did not find a seat.

Thanks for the data. It helps put things in perspective.

I know someone who graduated #1 or 2 in their class, had research, >260 step scores who didn't match, but that was due to a failure to realize how competitive derm was. They only applied to 10 or 15 of the top programs. Fortunately, they matched the second time around. Still, it's clear that lots of good applicants probably never match into derm and plastics.
 
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Someone mentioned that IM can be fairly family friendly -- aren't Medicine residencies pretty intense?
 
Just chiming in here, but there is an Optho doc I'll be shadowing soon. He works ~25 hours a week as a part-timer and is still pulling in lots of $. He spends a lot of time with his two children, which is why he took the part-time gig.
(A) he's an outlier (n=1).
(B) he likely didn't start his career at those hours.
(C) part time sounds great to employees but not as great to employers -- you basically pay the same overhead for half an employee. So these jobs are few and far between -- usually offered to an exceptional employee you don't want to lose rather than someone you hire right out of residency/ fellowship. So you often have to work crazy long hours for a while to earn the credibility to ask for short hours.
(D) part time frequently tends to mean a big loss of both salary potential and career advancement. And part time in a profession can still end up being pretty significant hours -- I've heard of people earning half the salary for 75% of the hours and being considered "part time". So maybe you watch your hours drop down to 50 + hours a week but earn half what the guy working 70ish makes-- might not be such a good deal considering the career advancement you give up to boot.

So while I don't doubt there are people with such cushy part time schedules this probably gives OP some unrealistic expectations of what is "likely". Theoretically possible and likely really aren't always the same thing here. And some things like part time demand bigger trade offs than people who want more family time like to believe. There's always someone almost as good willing to take that extra call and make your cushy schedule not such a good deal to your bosses.
 
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Someone mentioned that IM can be fairly family friendly -- aren't Medicine residencies pretty intense?
I think everyone here is talking about things being family friendly AFTER residency. And in most cases they really mean even a few years into your post residency job, once you've paid your dues and learned the ropes. Nobody is saying inpatient or ICU IM is family friendly. Your elective and outpatient months might be though. And if after residency you go into something like rheum or gerontology then yes, a few years even further down the road your hours can be much more controllable.
 
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I think everyone here is talking about things being family friendly AFTER residency. And in most cases they really mean even a few years into your post residency job, once you've paid your dues and learned the ropes. Nobody is saying inpatient or ICU IM is family friendly. Your elective and outpatient months might be though. And if after residency you go into something like rheum or gerontology then yes, a few years even further down the road your hours can be much more controllable.
I was speaking more to the previously mentioned correlate between residency hours and attending hours. Whether or not this exists, idk. I wasn't clear, though -- aren't Medicne residencies typically fairly intense, while -- as you said -- the hours of established attendings comparatively manageable?
 
I was speaking more to the previously mentioned correlate between residency hours and attending hours. Whether or not this exists, idk. I wasn't clear, though -- aren't Medicne residencies typically fairly intense, while -- as you said -- the hours of established attendings comparatively manageable?
Depends. There are sub specialties and practices that work harder than others. You can have an intense life and lots of night work in, say, GI or cards, (all GI bleeds and acute cardiac issues like to happen late at night) while something like Rheum may have relatively few emergencies.
And "established" is a key word in your post -- the person right out of fellowship is going to do the lions share of the call in most practices. If someone needs to work Xmas or thanksgiving it's not going to be the 60 yo senior partner. And a new hire is not as efficient and being much more closely reviewed by his employers during those years so s/he's less efficient to boot-- every task just takes longer, meaning s/he'll stay later to get things done.
 
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aren't Medicne residencies typically fairly intense

Not compared to surgery. Remember, OP was interested in surgery, and I believe that medicine and pedes residencies will be easier than a surgery residency, despite being difficult.
 
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