Specialized Masters Program vs More Science Undergrad (for applicant with undergrad science GPA~3.0)

[philly419]

---

Members don't see this ad.

I would love to hear from Staff from Admission Committees from BOTH Allopathic and Osteopathic regarding this post...
Here are the facts as I understand them now in terms of GPA for med school application
- Undergrad science GPA is the most important factor in terms of GPA on a med school application
- Traditional Science Masters Programs GPA ( Or Grad Science GPA) is generally seen as inflated grades and unimportant for med school applications and for Adcoms
- Specialized master programs (where students take medical school courses at a medical school like Drexel University Interdepartmental Medical Science Program or Temple University's advanced core in medical sciences program...the 2 programs I am looking at) offer something in between the previous two...not as important as Undergraduate science GPA but definitely way more important than Grad Science GPA since adcoms can see your performance in actual med school courses

If someone has a low undergrad science GPA (2.9-3.2 range)...and they are accepted into a specialized masters program or can continue undergraduate science coursework...which path should they choose?
How do allopathic med schools look at a applicant with a High GPA in a specialized masters program but a low undergrad GPA?
How do osteopathic med schools look at a applicant with a High GPA in a specialized masters program but a low undergrad GPA?

In short...what should I do next if I am in this position?

Thank you in advance for everyone's advice or input!

 

[deleted248403]

I would love to hear from Staff from Admission Committees from BOTH Allopathic and Osteopathic regarding this post...
Here are the facts as I understand them now in terms of GPA for med school application
- Undergrad science GPA is the most important factor in terms of GPA on a med school application
- Traditional Science Masters Programs GPA ( Or Grad Science GPA) is generally seen as inflated grades and unimportant for med school applications and for Adcoms
- Specialized master programs (where students take medical school courses at a medical school like Drexel University Interdepartmental Medical Science Program or Temple University's advanced core in medical sciences program...the 2 programs I am looking at) offer something in between the previous two...not as important as Undergraduate science GPA but definitely way more important than Grad Science GPA since adcoms can see your performance in actual med school courses

If someone has a low undergrad science GPA (2.9-3.2 range)...and they are accepted into a specialized masters program or can continue undergraduate science coursework...which path should they choose?
How do allopathic med schools look at a applicant with a High GPA in a specialized masters program but a low undergrad GPA?
How do osteopathic med schools look at a applicant with a High GPA in a specialized masters program but a low undergrad GPA?

In short...what should I do next if I am in this position?

Thank you in advance for everyone's advice or input!

1) Not many/any (to my knowledge) ADCOM on the post-bac forum to my knowledge; there are students on here that are involved in the admissions process, but not faculty
2) Discussed at length - do some more reading

 

[FormerPhysicist]

I'm not sure why you'd bother with an SMP if you're fine with DO schools. You can retake classes and get your application ready by next year for a third (or less) of the cost of an SMP, assuming a reasonably priced state school is nearby.

 

[darklabel]

Osteopathic schools use grade replacement so it would be cheaper to retake classes you did poorly in. Some people with very low MCAT scores that can't get a score in the high 20's or 30's would usually go for a DO SMP program that offers "guaranteed" admissions if you get good grades in the program. I would suggest to just retake any F's, D's, C's and your GPA will sky rocket.

MD is a different ball game. The best post-grad program to do that will help with getting into medical school is completing an SMP, preferably from an MD-granting institution. A critical thing is making sure your uGPA is above a 3.0 in both science and cumulative. It would be difficult to get into an MD school with a sub 3.0 GPA. Then getting straight A's in an SMP (especially a respectable one) will definitely get school's attention. For instance, straight A's at a program like Georgetown would probably nab you a few MD interviews and may lead to an acceptance.

Each school views gradGPA differently (including from an SMP). I would say focus on an SMP program and focusing on the home institution. I only speak from my own experience in a current postbacc and current acceptance.

Good luck!

 

[philly419]

I'm not sure why you'd bother with an SMP if you're fine with DO schools. You can retake classes and get your application ready by next year for a third (or less) of the cost of an SMP, assuming a reasonably priced state school is nearby.

I agree....but If i can perform well in a specialized masters program which has a linkage to a allopathic med school ( temple university guarantees acceptance into their medical school if you get a 30+ mcat and 3.5 GPA in the specialized masters) than I should at least try to get into an allopathic med school if the opportunity is presented to me....however that being said I would gladly attend an Osteopathic school because I personally believe that that reputational gap between osteopath and allopath is shrinking and that many osteopaths have fulfilling careers in medicine

in short...of course it is cheaper just to retake some undergrad courses and attend an osteopath but as I'm still relatively young (25) and have financial support from my mother (who will pay for the specialized masters program) I should at least reach for an allopath

 

[philly419]

Also this is what i might do....I might do a one year specialized masters program...perform as well as humanly possible and apply to med school...and in that gap year work part time and retake those classes in undergrad i did poorly in and take new undergrad science courses and shape up my undergrad science GPA....im getting ahead of myself though i should focus on one thing at a time

 

[DrMidlife]

.. If i can perform well in a specialized masters program which has a linkage to a allopathic med school ( temple university guarantees acceptance into their medical school if you get a 30+ mcat and 3.5 GPA in the specialized masters) than I should at least try to get into an allopathic med school if the opportunity is presented to me....

I strongly encourage you to do more reading, generally, as well as specifically looking at Temple's web page, which has a minimum GPA that you don't meet.

Opportunities aren't presented to you. Doubly so on a GPA comeback. If you want to go to med school from a 3.0-ish, you have to be the grownup in charge and you have to do a boatload of work that the normal premeds didn't have to do. Don't expect premed advisers to know how to advise you. Don't expect med schools to be interested in you or to be nice about your situation. You are on a GPA comeback and it's not actually supposed to work out. The students who had their act together in undergrad are the ones that are going to get the interested and thoughtful advice from premed advisers and from med schools. Honestly the most likely thing you'll do, based on my (gulp) 8 years of experience on SDN, is do a lot of complaining about how hard it is to figure things out, and then you'll disappear. Or, you could become one of us who figured it out...by obsessively READING and educating ourselves on options and chances and finances and such.

You're asking questions that have been answered literally thousands of times in this forum. READ. Take notes. At least a dozen hours to get started. Not kidding.

Best of luck to you.

 

[BIGMEECHY]

Damn kids, get off my lawn!!!

 

[jxpham]

Also this is what i might do....I might do a one year specialized masters program...perform as well as humanly possible and apply to med school...and in that gap year work part time and retake those classes in undergrad i did poorly in and take new undergrad science courses and shape up my undergrad science GPA....im getting ahead of myself though i should focus on one thing at a time

Like others have said and like Drmidlife said, there is a lot of info on here. A little bit overwhelming, I know, but it is worth it to go through it all for yourself.

Every time I see someone asking about and assuming that a SMP is a sure fix, I just wait for Drmidlife to blow a fuse lol. I know from first hand, if you didn't get things right the first time then the road will be very rough. The point here is, if you are the adcom and you have thousands trying to get 100 seats, will you pick someone who always "got it right" the first time, or will you pick someone who got it the second time or third? In addition, every year newly BA/BS graduates are coming up younger and better (hypothetically), making you older and even less desirable (hypothetically).

But obviously, it is not all about getting it right the first time. Many before us, Drmidlife included, proved that second chance and third chances are given but the path of redemption is long and difficult. And in reality, the opposing parties may never acknowledge your effort. It's life.

One advise I have for you is to do this redemption thing in order. UG classes (if you haven't finished literally took everything already), MCAT, EC and volunteering, then SMP.

 

[DrMidlife]

every year newly BA/BS graduates are coming up younger and better (hypothetically), making you older and even less desirable (hypothetically).

Harumph. 24 is now the average age of first year med students. I'll leave the math as an exercise, but do consider that it's not a bell curve. No way should you worry about being in your (gasp) later 20's with respect to med school admissions, assuming you reached a point where you pay your own rent and have a job with responsibilities somewhere in there.

 

[philly419]

I strongly encourage you to do more reading, generally, as well as specifically looking at Temple's web page, which has a minimum GPA that you don't meet.

Opportunities aren't presented to you. Doubly so on a GPA comeback. If you want to go to med school from a 3.0-ish, you have to be the grownup in charge and you have to do a boatload of work that the normal premeds didn't have to do. Don't expect premed advisers to know how to advise you. Don't expect med schools to be interested in you or to be nice about your situation. You are on a GPA comeback and it's not actually supposed to work out. The students who had their act together in undergrad are the ones that are going to get the interested and thoughtful advice from premed advisers and from med schools. Honestly the most likely thing you'll do, based on my (gulp) 8 years of experience on SDN, is do a lot of complaining about how hard it is to figure things out, and then you'll disappear. Or, you could become one of us who figured it out...by obsessively READING and educating ourselves on options and chances and finances and such.

You're asking questions that have been answered literally thousands of times in this forum. READ. Take notes. At least a dozen hours to get started. Not kidding.

Best of luck to you.

Right now my GPA is a 3.22 science undergrad.... If I take 4-5 courses I could bring it up to a 3.5 or do the grade replacement for osteopath which is not something I've ruled out..
I have taken the time to read a lot of forums about specialized masters programs and to be perfectly honest it's still a huge gray area for everyone...some of these programs are well respected and some aren't but you make it seem as if I'm not trying to improve my situation.... I'm either going to do a specialized masters or continue undergrad and the only reason why I posted this question is for advice on which choice is better .
I'm fully aware of how hard it is to get into medical school my father was on adcoms for 30 years ( professor of pathology but he passed away and my grades suffered when I was cleaning and taking care I him when he had brain cancer) I have two brothers who are graduates of allopathic med schools and my mom is an oncologist
But taking advice from family can be distorted with with emotional baggage even though it is well intended.
Temples university postbacc advance core program lists a 3.3 GPA from undergrad not as a requirement but as an average for the students they usually accept...3.22 doesn't rule me out from acceptance but just makes it harder... I made sure this was true when I called Temple university last week and asked them directly about this issue...they told me to still apply

So put away all the critique about me not doing research or the work to get into med school...
WHICH program should I do?! Undergrad or specialized masters? I just need a one word answer.... I'm gonna pick one eventually but if I can get someone with experience to Give me advice ( like yourself) id appreciate it. I do appreciate your honesty and tough love and don't take offense to anything on this forum but to be frank the situation of specialized master programs aren't exactly crystal clear even after reading many posts about it.
In addition I have a job doing research in radiation oncology and have an MBA in health care administration with 3.73 GPA which means nothing for medical school but still looks good

 

[philly419]

Harumph. 24 is now the average age of first year med students. I'll leave the math as an exercise, but do consider that it's not a bell curve. No way should you worry about being in your (gasp) later 20's with respect to med school admissions, assuming you reached a point where you pay your own rent and have a job with responsibilities somewhere in there.

How do i privately message DrMidlife? You seem like someone who is a realist that can give me the best advice Thank you...never mind figured it out folks 🙂

 

[jxpham]

So which program? I guess my answer was too long so you missed the very last part 🙂.

And I would love to have a family of doctors to give me advice. Use them. The worst, you don't listen.

 

[philly419]

So which program? I guess my answer was too long so you missed the very last part 🙂.

And I would love to have a family of doctors to give me advice. Use them. The worst, you don't listen.

I did finish all of pre med but your saying do these things in this order 1) improve undergrad GPA 2) Mcat 3) EC and volunteering
4) smp
Got it thank you

 

[jxpham]

Most pre-med classes are intro level. You can take a bunch more upper level/ grad intro level classes as an unstructured post bacc. SMP is the last resort for many of us, me included. So if you are going to do SMP anyway, honestly reflect and ask if you can commit 100%. Either way you choose, more education is not bad, just more debt.

 

[philly419]

I strongly encourage you to do more reading, generally, as well as specifically looking at Temple's web page, which has a minimum GPA that you don't meet.

Opportunities aren't presented to you. Doubly so on a GPA comeback. If you want to go to med school from a 3.0-ish, you have to be the grownup in charge and you have to do a boatload of work that the normal premeds didn't have to do. Don't expect premed advisers to know how to advise you. Don't expect med schools to be interested in you or to be nice about your situation. You are on a GPA comeback and it's not actually supposed to work out. The students who had their act together in undergrad are the ones that are going to get the interested and thoughtful advice from premed advisers and from med schools. Honestly the most likely thing you'll do, based on my (gulp) 8 years of experience on SDN, is do a lot of complaining about how hard it is to figure things out, and then you'll disappear. Or, you could become one of us who figured it out...by obsessively READING and educating ourselves on options and chances and finances and such.

You're asking questions that have been answered literally thousands of times in this forum. READ. Take notes. At least a dozen hours to get started. Not kidding.

Best of luck to you.

Dear DrMidlife,
You're harsh words are a good wakeup call and I appreciate it. My 3.0-ish GPA will not get sympathy from premed advisors or med schools.
I have applied to undergraduate colleges in the philadelphia area to basically get a undergrad degree in biology starting in 2014-2015 school year. (i have an undergraduate degree in economics and I finished pre-med but if i do a GPA comeback i need a plethora of undergrad courses to bring my GPA back up to a 3.5)

Since I would be happy attending an osteopathic med school in my future...is it better to do grade replacement first in the courses I did not do well in the past? This way i can apply to osteopath school and If i can get in I do not have to continue the undergrad degree in biology anymore...but if i don't get into osteopath school at first...then i will take classes that are replacing old grades first and afterwards just take upper level undergrad bio courses I have never taken? Does this make sense for a GPA comeback for both osteopath and allopath?

This is a 1-2 year plan and although you wrote "You are on a GPA comeback and it's not actually supposed to work out"
what advice do you have for me for the next 1-2 years of my life that will actually help me?
I think I know what i have to do...learn to perform well in undergraduate biology courses and get A's in them...do medical research (which I'm doing in radiation oncology right now), do volunteering and shadowing....and perform well on the mcat.

Any other advice DrMidlife would be appreciated. Thank you.

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

I strongly encourage you to do more reading, generally, as well as specifically looking at Temple's web page, which has a minimum GPA that you don't meet.

Opportunities aren't presented to you. Doubly so on a GPA comeback. If you want to go to med school from a 3.0-ish, you have to be the grownup in charge and you have to do a boatload of work that the normal premeds didn't have to do. Don't expect premed advisers to know how to advise you. Don't expect med schools to be interested in you or to be nice about your situation. You are on a GPA comeback and it's not actually supposed to work out. The students who had their act together in undergrad are the ones that are going to get the interested and thoughtful advice from premed advisers and from med schools. Honestly the most likely thing you'll do, based on my (gulp) 8 years of experience on SDN, is do a lot of complaining about how hard it is to figure things out, and then you'll disappear. Or, you could become one of us who figured it out...by obsessively READING and educating ourselves on options and chances and finances and such.

You're asking questions that have been answered literally thousands of times in this forum. READ. Take notes. At least a dozen hours to get started. Not kidding.

Best of luck to you.

I know I'm re-vamping an older thread, but this is such a true statement and I wanted to take a moment to acknowledge that.

My premed advisor didn't take me seriously until my fifth year in school when I had a 3 semester streak of 3.8+, was doing research, was a paid tutor and I was outperforming all of her other students she did advising for in upper level science classes. She was my adviser since I had declared premed at the end of my second year (starting with a 2.4 gpa) and I had received WAY different treatment than the other premeds. I mean, sure, things weren't looking too great for me.. but I'm applying now with competitive stats and a strong upward trend, and if I would have listened to her and not declared premed or been discouraged at the fact that she clearly had no hope for me I wouldn't be applying to schools right now.

It's just ridiculous how differently you are treated if you don't have your s*** together from day 1. I'd love to start a premed support group or do some student advising or something like that for students like myself, because I know there are plenty of others similar to me just from reading on this forum who maybe won't become doctors now because of the discouragement they've been faced with from advisers. It was so reliving to find SDN and read threads about other students in similar situations and speak with people who gave REAL advise.

Ok rant is over.

 

[Curious90]

Hi! I decided to go to med school at the end of the summer following my junior year. Prior to that I had been thinking Ph.D. in genetics, but started thinking about med school the summer after sophomore year when I did clinical research and loved working with patients and the hospital setting. The summer after junior year I worked in a genetics lab, and that made it very clear to me that I really want to work with patients. Hence, the decision at the beginning of senior year to definitely work towards med school. I was already a biology major, so no problem finishing the pre-reqs. The problem was my GPA - 3.3 s and c. I believe this was totally due to being a two-season varsity athlete at an Ivy school. Many times there simply were not enough hours in the day for me to do everything necessary to excel academically. My ECs are good, with hundreds of hours of clinical work, and with publications for research. However, I had little to no pre-med advising due to my late decision. I also knew that I needed more school, but decided against the post-bacc because it would take many, many As to bring my GPA up to where it needs to be. So, I've decided that an SMP is the best way for me to go. With being able to have 100% of my time focused on the academics, I am confident that I can excel and I believe it is the best way for me to show that I am academically able to handle med school. This is just my thinking and story, so take it at that. Good luck!