Specialties help?

[premedwannabe]

Advertisement - Members don't see this ad

I'm more interested in dental than med now, but I still need to have a few things clarified. I have researched about specialties and I have found out what each of them do on ADA.

Endodontics
Oral Surgery
Orthodontics
Pedodontics
Periodontics
Prosthodontics

1. How long does each of the specialties take after dental school?

2. I have to ask... around how much more do you make in each specialty?

3. Are prosthodontists the only ones that are performing cosmetic surgeries (such as veneers)?

4. If not, how long does it take to be able to perform cosmetic surgery after dental school? or is it incorporated into dental school?

Thanks for your input

 

[premedwannabe]

Oral surgery is the same as OMFS?

plz excuse my ignorant questions

 

[Jone]

Really, some "cosmetic" dentists will tell you that a residency is of minimal benefit, and many prostho residencies are pretty darn long...

Cosmetic dentistry is a very competitive field, so I hope you have some darn good business skills if you plan to go that route.

Oral surgery and OMFS and OMS are the same thing.

Residencies are usually 2 to 3 years, except for OMFS.

Salary for each specialty depends on where you live... DO A SEARCH ON THIS FORUM... THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WAAAAAY TOOOOO MUUUUUUCH.

Oral surgery is the same as OMFS?

plz excuse my ignorant questions

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

1.

endo, ortho, pedo : 2-3 yrs depending on the program
perio : most are 3 years
prosth : 3-4 depending on the program --- I have no idea what they are doing for 4 (!!😱!!) years
oral surgery : 4 or 6 depending on whether you get the MD

2. It's really hard to get accurate information on income because there is such a wide range. But it usually ends up being close to these figures:

endo, pedo, oral surgery, ortho: $300k - $350k +
perio: $250k
prosth: $200
general dentistry: $175k

Just keep in mind that these figures are not the same as looking at medical salaries. These are NOT salaries; a lot will depend on the individual's practice style and business sense and there is a HUGE range. There are general dentists who blow specialists out of the water income-wise and specialists who spend their whole careers under the $150k mark.

3. What do you mean by cosmetic surgery? If you are talking about veneers and stuff, that is the realm of general dentists and prosthodontists. If you are talking about orthognathic surgery and chin implants that is the oral surgeon's job.

4. Again, I'm confused about what you mean by cosmetic surgery. If you are talking veneers and "smile makeovers", you can do that right out of school (though not necessarily well 😀)
If you are talking about jaw and facial surgery you will have to become an oral surgeon.

 

[Geezer99]

Once you get out of school you can start doing veneers, but the prosthodontists usually take over when it's full mouth rehabilitation stuff. Prosth's also do a ton of denture related treatment. Most pros programs are 3 years unless you're interested in maxilofacial prosths which adds another year. That's where you learn how to make fake palates, eyes, ears, noses, etc.

 

[dentalman]

Look at the FAQ!!!!

 

[Doggie]

1.
prosth : 3-4 depending on the program --- I have no idea what they are doing for 4 (!!😱!!) years

I thought most of the 4 year programs are reserved for those that are seeking oral and maxillofacial prosth? Now these guys are badass!

 

[premedwannabe]

ok lol... thanks for everyone's replies. I'll look more closely at the FAQ. I have tried searches, but I'll try some more.

I guess I'm using the wrong words. When I'm saying cosmetic surgery, I was referring to veneers. Sorry for the confusion. I see adds where dentist say "we can remake your smile." lol

I am interested in being a cosmetic dentist for some extra $$ to cushion my future life. 😀 Is it a fair assumption that you make more money doing cosmetic jobs as a dentist? I hope I don't seem to greedy with all this money talk.

 

[premedwannabe]

As I understand from what doctorspongebobdds said, general dentists can start putting on veneers when you come out of school. You said general dentists might not do it necessarily well. Why is that? Won't your patients be unhappy and try to sue you?

 

[premedwannabe]

Really, some "cosmetic" dentists will tell you that a residency is of minimal benefit, and many prostho residencies are pretty darn long...

Cosmetic dentistry is a very competitive field, so I hope you have some darn good business skills if you plan to go that route.

can some explain this to me? I don't get why cosmetic dentistry is a competitive field if you don't need to specialize in anything. Why would you need really good business skills vs. ok business skills?

 

[simpledoc]

can some explain this to me? I don't get why cosmetic dentistry is a competitive field if you don't need to specialize in anything. Why would you need really good business skills vs. ok business skills?

you need better business skills than dental skills to be a "cosmetic dentist" simply because you will be doing unnecessary/overkill dentistry in those areas of the mouth which are absolutely fine !
or atleast you will be doing the simplest of the things but gotta pretend to the patient that you almost did a brain surgery!

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

It is competitive because there is only a certain percentage of the population that wants cosmetic dentistry so dentists have to "fight" for these patients. On the other hand, EVERYBODY needs a filling at some point in their lives.

But so-called cosmetic dentistry isn't the only path that leads to financial success. There are lots of general dentists with million doctor practices based almost solely on bread and butter dentistry. (crown and bridge, fillings, extractions, endo) For the general dentist business sense and good patient management are often more important to making money than the types of procedures offered.

But if money is your main motivation I would be inclined to pursue your initial interest in medical school rather than dentistry. The money is more of a guarantee for MDs; dentists have to be very self-motivated if they want to see the big bucks.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

The money is more of a guarantee for MDs; dentists have to be very self-motivated if they want to see the big bucks.

Are you serious? Not a chance. There are definitely some specialties of medicine that are very competitive financially with that of dentistry, but in no way can the general practice of medicine compete with the general practice of dentistry. When reviewing the average salaries of physicians/dentists, don't forget to factor in the number of hours worked per week. There is a BIG difference between working 32 hrs/wk and making $300K as a dentist and working 50 for the same salary as a physician. Correct me if I'm wrong, everyone, but the only medical specialty that can compete with the hours of dentistry is Derm? Derm is an extremely hard specialty to get into...

As for self-motivation, is it really going to be that hard to motivate yourself to spend the time to learn how to manage your practice in the most efficient way possible? They have tons of groups that help with this sort of thing if you're having trouble figuring it out yourself.

 

[toofache32]

I always thought "cosmetic dentistry" was a dumb concept...all dentistry is cosmetic. Even the patient who wants a gold #8 is still making a cosmetic request. I'm still waiting for the patient who comes in and says, "Make me some ugly-a$$ snaggle teeth."

 

[premedwannabe]

At first when I was even more underinformed (if you guys can believe), I wanted to be a doctor. It seemed like a more interesting job. I couldn't much advantages of a dentist over a doctor. One advantage would be that being a dentist would allow you to start your job earlier than doctors. After reading a couple more points on how dentists have better hours than even some general doctors, it has persuaded me to this field. I always hesitate to mention money, but the fact is it does matter. Hearing that some dentists can be earning the same salary as some pediatricians is good news. On a curious note, would any of you really be a dentist if it paid 20k a year?

How do ppl open their own dental clinic once they come out? Loans or rich parents/friends? or take over the clinic that they shadowed in 😀 ?

 

[dentalman]

Veneers are withing the realm of a general dentist. There is no "cosmetic dentistry" specialty. They have continuing education courses to learn more about it, and some of these spend a lot of money in advertisement to make the general public perceive that there are "specialists", when this isn't really true. (Prosthodontists are true specialists that deal with complicated cases).

The reason one won't be very efficient at them coming right out of dental school is that most patients of dental schools cannot afford these procedures. Even if you really luck out and get one case, that is not a much experience. My own experience will consist of practicing on plastic teeth in the preclinical lab, along with everyone else. Fortunately, I don't think they are very technically demanding, but there is always a learning curve.

Also, veneers are not always indicated. For most people with healthy teeth, orthodontics and whitening will be much less invasive. (You have to permanently remove tooth structure to place veneers - and they require lifelong mainenance.) Hence, an ethical dilemna arises when you find yourself trying to sell a more expensive procedure that is really just a quick fix. If you were a patient, wouldn't you want to be explained all of your options? Of course, sometimes - when their is staining that cannot be removed or greatly disfigured teeth - veneers or crowns are indicated.

I just want to give you some things to think about. But if you become a plastic surgeon, I could really use some calf implants.

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

Are you serious? Not a chance. There are definitely some specialties of medicine that are very competitive financially with that of dentistry, but in no way can the general practice of medicine compete with the general practice of dentistry. When reviewing the average salaries of physicians/dentists, don't forget to factor in the number of hours worked per week. There is a BIG difference between working 32 hrs/wk and making $300K as a dentist and working 50 for the same salary as a physician. Correct me if I'm wrong, everyone, but the only medical specialty that can compete with the hours of dentistry is Derm? Derm is an extremely hard specialty to get into...

I know the majority of people disagree with me on this one, but I will stand by it. For every general dentist who makes $300k/yr there is a dentist out there making $80k. There is such a huge range of income that there really are no guarantees. I will agree that a general dentist has a much greater earning potential than a family MD, but the downside is also potentially greater. In medicine you can pretty much pick your specialty and know within $50k or so what kind of salary you will be making; finances are much more variable for dentists.

I could be wrong... have been before. But that is my opinion.

 

[Dr.SpongeBobDDS]

At first when I was even more underinformed (if you guys can believe), I wanted to be a doctor. It seemed like a more interesting job. I couldn't much advantages of a dentist over a doctor. One advantage would be that being a dentist would allow you to start your job earlier than doctors. After reading a couple more points on how dentists have better hours than even some general doctors, it has persuaded me to this field. I always hesitate to mention money, but the fact is it does matter. Hearing that some dentists can be earning the same salary as some pediatricians is good news. On a curious note, would any of you really be a dentist if it paid 20k a year?

How do ppl open their own dental clinic once they come out? Loans or rich parents/friends? or take over the clinic that they shadowed in 😀 ?

Of course money matters; anybody that tells you it doesn't is lying. It offends a lot of pre-dents/pre-meds to talk about money because for some reason they feel like their motivation has to be pure and noble. Too many doctor shows on TV, I guess.

But I think money as the sole motivation for dentistry is a bad idea. It is too narrow of a field to go into if you have no interest besides money. With medicine you have dozens and dozens of specialties and work situations to choose from; you are bound to find something you like that earns good money to boot. If you don't like dentistry you are pretty much stuck.

Usually a new grad buys a practice after a few years of associating with an existing practice owner. You can start your own place from scratch or buy one from a retiring dentist. For most people this means an additional loan of $250k - $750k depending on the type of practice you buy and its location. If you have family with that kind of cash laying around good for you. But why even bother with school if that is the case?

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

On a curious note, would any of you really be a dentist if it paid 20k a year?

Hell no. I've got other interests, too. If dentistry only paid $20K, I'd pursue something else. I want a nice house. I want to join a country club. I want to travel at my leisure. These statements don't necessarily mean that I'm all about the money. I'm really into third-world dentistry, and I plan on doing a lot of it when I finally finish residency. This doesn't make me a saint, but wanting the things I want doesn't make me a POS either.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Is it a fair assumption that you make more money doing cosmetic jobs as a dentist?

Perhaps. But you could do a ton of posterior crown and bridge, none of which is in the esthetic zone, and still make a killing.

All dentistry is cosmetic to some degree.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Veneers are withing the realm of a general dentist.

Hell ya. A fellow student of mine just completed an 8-unit veneer case last week, and I have a patient I'll prepping for veneers next month.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I will agree that a general dentist has a much greater earning potential than a family MD, but the downside is also potentially greater. In medicine you can pretty much pick your specialty and know within $50k or so what kind of salary you will be making; finances are much more variable for dentists.
.

I agree with this. And, the MD knowing what their income will be isn't necessarily a good thing--much of it is HMO-related. To a great extent our incomes will be related to our business sense and work ethic.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

I agree with this. And, the MD knowing what their income will be isn't necessarily a good thing--much of it is HMO-related. To a great extent our incomes will be related to our business sense and work ethic.

I'll agree with you as well, but I can't imagine that those guys making the $80K are actively trying to increase that. I'm very confident in saying that anyone who wants to make great money as a GP dentist will do what it takes to make it. Those that are happy with $80K will go on making $80K. I believe that there are very few dentists out there who want to make more money and are miserable because they just can't figure out how to do it. If a dentist in this era has that problem with all the resources available to him/her, he/she is a *****. I know some dentists that make $80K/year--they work one day a week for the dentist that bought their practices. I wouldn't mind taking one day away from my golf game to pull a little extra spending cash.

 

[premedwannabe]

more loans after you come out for a practice huh? I guess loans never end. School. Your own practice. Home. Cars.... never ending.

What are some of your motivation for being a dentist aside from salary and good hours? Any one seriously have gratification in removing teeth or posterior crown or bridge work? Is it when you see a patient leaving painfree that makes you feel good?

I guess I have to wait and see what's it like at the stony brook dental school. Do you guys think it will give me the amount of exposure that we help me decide if being a dentist is for me? and have a clear distinction between some specialties?

 

[Jediwendell]

more loans after you come out for a practice huh? I guess loans never end. School. Your own practice. Home. Cars.... never ending.

What are some of your motivation for being a dentist aside from salary and good hours? Any one seriously have gratification in removing teeth or posterior crown or bridge work? Is it when you see a patient leaving painfree that makes you feel good?

I guess I have to wait and see what's it like at the stony brook dental school. Do you guys think it will give me the amount of exposure that we help me decide if being a dentist is for me? and have a clear distinction between some specialties?

Taking out a tooth actually is pretty darn satisfying. I actually really enjoy dentistry overall. I have both degrees (MD and DMD) and found a ton more enjoyable about dentistry. I am in an orthodontic residency and it is pretty fulfilling to make a 13 year old girl or boy feel good about themselves. Same thing goes for a lot of crown and bridge or implants, etc.

This is my general take on the situation: Dentists do procedures all day long and get paid pretty well for a basically 8-5 day. Physicians really want to do procedures all day long and get paid pretty well for a basically 8-5 day (thus why most of them go into things like derm or GI or Cardiology), but just can't bring themselves to respect or stoop to being a dentist.

 

[Woodsy]

If dentistry paid only 20k and the average salary of people is 5k, sure I'd do it.

But according to today's standard, hell no. I'd rather be working for the same salary doing some lame job in the office because you have less responsibility and care. Don't even have to work hard, just sit there and get paid. Dentists earn what they make. The amount of time you go to school, the knowledge you know, the responsibility you undertake, you think all that is easy? You make the 100k+ because you earned it. Not everyone can perform dentistry.....duh...

being medical doctor is even worse. and u do it out of the goodness of your heart? my ass...for the same salary (20k) you can be sitting in an air conditioned office doing nothing....

so anyone who says not for the money is either lying or ******ed....and should not be allowed to go into dentistry or medicine because they are just too stupid...

admit it already the money is good...

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

Any one seriously have gratification in removing teeth or posterior crown or bridge work? Is it when you see a patient leaving painfree that makes you feel good?[/B]

I love taking out teeth. I'm a big fan of instant gratification, and I love the parts of dentistry (or oral surgery) that afford me that.

It wears me out when people talk about doing dentistry just for the money. Yeah, we make good money, but there are a lot of other career choices that would allow a person to make good money that doesn't require all the extra school. Do you think the CEO of Mattel goes home feeling great about the new Barbie convertible Porsche with the 6-disc CD changer? If you have to search that hard to find something in dentistry for you to get fired up about, leave the profession to the people that already have found it.

Would you ever question a Jiffy Lube employee about the gratification of oil changes? Probably not, because they don't make big bucks. If they made $200K a year, then I bet you'd ask them the same question. When you ask it, it's obvious that you should be doing something else.

 

[premedwannabe]

this is what I had originally posted:

click me for extra noob questions to answer

 

[premedwannabe]

I would like to thank everyone for their replies so far. You guys have clarified a lot of things. I hope you can still help me out.

 

[simpledoc]

I'm just curious as to what motivates other ppl. I am still underexposed to dentistry, which is why I'm going to volunteer at the Stony Brook Dental School.

Some side questions,

1. How do you know what dental school is suitable for you?

2. Did you visit each one to make a decision? even the ones across the country?

3. I understand all dental schools are good, but where can I find a reliable source of the better ones? (I'm in NYC)

I see Stony Brook and Columbia being better. Buffalo and then NYU. Is this an approriate assumption? I have no idea. Just from word of mouth. I didn't find any online ranking like they do for med schools. Those are the ones that I would mostly apply to. I can't find a fifth one to put on my list for the DAT. Obviously I want to find out more about schools that are near by.

Should I visit all of them to get a feel of how school would be like?

now, why on earth would you want to divert this thread to a new direction? you started this thread and it breeded a lot of information (and might breed so more)...i suggest that for your second question, a new thread be started to get to yur point of focus..

 

[premedwannabe]

the ppl in this thread are very helpful. I will try to post it in a new thread. thanks for the suggestion.

 

[tx oms]

Hell no. I've got other interests, too. If dentistry only paid $20K, I'd pursue something else. I want a nice house. I want to join a country club. I want to travel at my leisure. These statements don't necessarily mean that I'm all about the money. I'm really into third-world dentistry, and I plan on doing a lot of it when I finally finish residency. This doesn't make me a saint, but wanting the things I want doesn't make me a POS either.

I want a twenty-seven year-old babe. You want 20 seven year old boys naked in your house.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

I want a twenty-seven year-old babe. You want 20 seven year old boys naked in your house.

Don't take out your aggression on me because your wife is a urology resident and plays with other guys penises all day. The problem isn't so much that his wife is handling dicks as it is that he ISN'T. Don't worry, pal, it'll be your turn soon. In the meantime, stop asking me to let you practice your inguinal hernia detection skills on me...

 

[Jone]

i have a friend who is a doctor and he just PERMANENTLY moved to a 3rd world country last year to practice medicine. he is only in his early 30's, so this is not some kind of retirement feel-good thing he is doing.

really, thanks for calling him ******ed. that's real nice of you. i've never met you, so i cannot judge you, so as hard as it is i will bite my tongue...

so anyone who says not for the money is either lying or ******ed....and should not be allowed to go into dentistry or medicine because they are just too stupid...

 

[premedwannabe]

ok lol...what has happened. 😱 right after my post of being thankful and it goes chaotic. Please gentlemen and ladies, CALM YOUR asss! ok more about specialties...

How come some of you said that doing a specialty is not worth the money?

 

[unlvdmd]

Sweetheart, some of your questions are totally lame with minimal research on your own part. It is just seems like they are coming from a 8th grader getting some easy input on your "career paper."

 

[premedwannabe]

Sweetheart, some of your questions are totally lame with minimal research on your own part. It is just seems like they are coming from a 8th grader getting some easy input on your "career paper."

8th grade like? I'm doing some research here. I know i'm underinformed, but you guys are a reliable source of info.

 

[toofache32]

Don't take out your aggression on me because your wife is a urology resident and plays with other guys penises all day. The problem isn't so much that his wife is handling dicks as it is that he ISN'T. Don't worry, pal, it'll be your turn soon. In the meantime, stop asking me to let you practice your inguinal hernia detection skills on me...

DAAAaaaaaammmmmnnnn!!!!!

 

[Jone]

is it just me, or does this statement make absolutely no sense?

I know i'm underinformed, but you guys are a more reliable source of info than the internet.

 

[premedwannabe]

all I meant was that you guys give more reliable information than other sources on the internet.

 

[Pelotari]

1.

endo, ortho, pedo : 2-3 yrs depending on the program
perio : most are 3 years
prosth : 3-4 depending on the program --- I have no idea what they are doing for 4 (!!😱!!) years
oral surgery : 4 or 6 depending on whether you get the MD

2. It's really hard to get accurate information on income because there is such a wide range. But it usually ends up being close to these figures:

endo, pedo, oral surgery, ortho: $300k - $350k +
perio: $250k
prosth: $200
general dentistry: $175k

Just keep in mind that these figures are not the same as looking at medical salaries. These are NOT salaries; a lot will depend on the individual's practice style and business sense and there is a HUGE range. There are general dentists who blow specialists out of the water income-wise and specialists who spend their whole careers under the $150k mark.

3. What do you mean by cosmetic surgery? If you are talking about veneers and stuff, that is the realm of general dentists and prosthodontists. If you are talking about orthognathic surgery and chin implants that is the oral surgeon's job.

4. Again, I'm confused about what you mean by cosmetic surgery. If you are talking veneers and "smile makeovers", you can do that right out of school (though not necessarily well 😀)
If you are talking about jaw and facial surgery you will have to become an oral surgeon.

Geez...the figures above are a lot of cash.

Just curious: is this really what one would expect to take home, or from this do you have to subtract overhead costs? If so, how much overhead is typical for, say, a perio specialist?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

 

[Dental08?09]

Geez...the figures above are a lot of cash.

Just curious: is this really what one would expect to take home, or from this do you have to subtract overhead costs? If so, how much overhead is typical for, say, a perio specialist?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Expext to make those figures with 10+ years experience.

Straight out of school I am expecting to make around $95-105k as a GP. Where do I pull this from, well I have a few family members and friends fresh out of dental school. Lowest is around $90k and the higest is about $135k

 

[GatorDMD]

Don't take out your aggression on me because your wife is a urology resident and plays with other guys penises all day. The problem isn't so much that his wife is handling dicks as it is that he ISN'T. Don't worry, pal, it'll be your turn soon. In the meantime, stop asking me to let you practice your inguinal hernia detection skills on me...