Specialties that are 40 hours a week and pay well

[YCAGA]

Ophtho is 35-45 hours a week comprehensive and 40-50 retina in pp, which is 70% of practice. Pay is fantastic too.

Ophtho pay is very good but it isn't that crazy for a specialist and 4 years of a tough residency...median MGMA in 2019 for general optho was $350-415k depending on the region. Retina or refractive surgery pay is insane, no denying that, but matching ophtho and then beating out other ophtho residents for those fellowships is about as competitive as it gets. Also surgical ophtho probably isn't going to stay under 40hrs/week with call which was part of OP's question.

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[Neopolymath]

Ophtho pay is very good but it isn't that crazy for a specialist and 4 years of a tough residency...median MGMA in 2019 for general optho was $350-415k depending on the region. Retina or refractive surgery pay is insane, no denying that, but matching ophtho and then beating out other ophtho residents for those fellowships is about as competitive as it gets. Also surgical ophtho probably isn't going to stay under 40hrs/week with call which was part of OP's question.

You are failing to account for alternative revenue streams and vertical integration of business. Sky is the limit in ophtho for ambitious people with business acumen.

 

[Dr.K124]

Ophtho pay is very good but it isn't that crazy for a specialist and 4 years of a tough residency...median MGMA in 2019 for general optho was $350-415k depending on the region. Retina or refractive surgery pay is insane, no denying that, but matching ophtho and then beating out other ophtho residents for those fellowships is about as competitive as it gets. Also surgical ophtho probably isn't going to stay under 40hrs/week with call which was part of OP's question.

I'm an Ophthalmologist. Pay ranges from $200-300k starting, 350-700k as a partner, depending on region and practice setup. Retina pay is much higher. Yes, matching Ophtho is indeed quite competitive. If you're really dedicated and express interest from the start, however, it isn't that bad.

What do you mean by surgical Ophtho? Pure cataracts? Almost impossible to find as a gig, but yes that will easily stay under 45-50 hrs/week and pay insanely well. Comprehensive Ophtho with 1-2 days in the OR will pull the above figures and be under 45-50 hrs a week.

Call in Ophtho is very minimal. Retina used to have it bad in regards to that, but now it's barely a worse lifestyle than comprehensive.

As Neopolymath said, the sky is the limit if you know what you're doing in business.

Also, compared to other surgical residencies, it's pretty cush. Second year can be bad, but 3rd and 4th year typically come in at or below 60 hours a week.

 

[YCAGA]

I'm an Ophthalmologist. Pay ranges from $200-300k starting, 350-700k as a partner, depending on region and practice setup. Retina pay is much higher. Yes, matching Ophtho is indeed quite competitive. If you're really dedicated and express interest from the start, however, it isn't that bad.

What do you mean by surgical Ophtho? Pure cataracts? Almost impossible to find as a gig, but yes that will easily stay under 45-50 hrs/week and pay insanely well. Comprehensive Ophtho with 1-2 days in the OR will pull the above figures and be under 45-50 hrs a week.

Call in Ophtho is very minimal. Retina used to have it bad in regards to that, but now it's barely a worse lifestyle than comprehensive.

As Neopolymath said, the sky is the limit if you know what you're doing in business.

Also, compared to other surgical residencies, it's pretty cush. Second year can be bad, but 3rd and 4th year typically come in at or below 60 hours a week.

Glad to stand corrected on most of what I said. I wouldn't say that an 81% match rate for US allo seniors with an unmatched Step 1 average of 238 and an average of 79 applications sent out is "not bad." 1/5 not matching after heavy self selection is pretty brutal.

 

[Dr.K124]

Glad to stand corrected on most of what I said. I wouldn't say that an 81% match rate for US allo seniors with an unmatched Step 1 average of 238 and an average of 79 applications sent out is "not bad." 1/5 not matching after heavy self selection is pretty brutal.

Fair enough. I'm a little out of date when it comes to matching.

 

[efle]

Glad to stand corrected on most of what I said. I wouldn't say that an 81% match rate for US allo seniors with an unmatched Step 1 average of 238 and an average of 79 applications sent out is "not bad." 1/5 not matching after heavy self selection is pretty brutal.

Its changed a lot very quickly and recently. In 2012 the average matched score was 238. Less than a decade later that's the average unmatched. Its heading towards derm/plastics territory if this is a trend.

 

[Dr.K124]

Its changed a lot very quickly and recently. In 2012 the average matched score was 238. Less than a decade later that's the average unmatched. Its heading towards derm/plastics territory if this is a trend.

The secret is out about how awesome it is

 

[YCAGA]

Fair enough. I'm a little out of date when it comes to matching.

Ophtho isn't much different for any of the other surgical sub-specialities, so I should clarify that it's not like ophtho is some crazy outlier. Hell, even general surgery had an MD match rate of 83% in 2020. It is brutal out there

 

[YCAGA]

Its changed a lot very quickly and recently. In 2012 the average matched score was 238. Less than a decade later that's the average unmatched. Its heading towards derm/plastics territory if this is a trend.

Just looked it up and the average step 1 in 2012 was 224, in 2020 it was 237. So actually the average unmatched step 1 being 238 is not as scary as I thought.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

Its changed a lot very quickly and recently. In 2012 the average matched score was 238. Less than a decade later that's the average unmatched. Its heading towards derm/plastics territory if this is a trend.

I think it’s also that residency programs are caring less and less about Step 1. This year the step 1 difference between matched and unmatched is only 7 (245-238). A couple of years ago it was like 14.

 

[efle]

Just looked it up and the average step 1 in 2012 was 224, in 2020 it was 237. So actually the average unmatched step 1 being 238 is not as scary as I thought.

The average step 1 is 237 now?? I thought it was 230

 

[Lawpy]

The average step 1 is 237 now?? I thought it was 230

Good thing Step 1 went P/F!

Otherwise in like 5 years, average Step 1 will be 250!

 

[Steve_Zissou]

The average step 1 is 237 now?? I thought it was 230

I’m fairly certain that they ensure that the 50th percentile falls between 230-235. @memdoctobe where are you seeing that average?

 

[Steve_Zissou]

That being said, I’m pretty sure that they base 50th percentile on previous years performance.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

The average step 1 is 237 now?? I thought it was 230

Yeah, I just looked at my score sheet from step 1 I took last year. It says the mean step score was 231 with a SD of 20. No way it jumped 6 points in one year.

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah, I just looked at my score sheet from step 1 I took last year. It says the mean step score was 231 with a SD of 20. No way it jumped 6 points in one year.

231 is still stupidly high

 

[Lawpy]

Also why are the standard deviations so huge?? 211 to 251? What?

 

[efle]

Also why are the standard deviations so huge?? 211 to 251? What?

My USMLEs both had a 16 point interval to contain 65% confidence, and yet people talk as if a 235 and 250 are a world apart. These tests are god awful for how they're being used.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

231 is still stupidly high

How so? The average has hovered around 229-231 for a while.

 

[Phloston]

When I say 40 hours/week, I'm considering that the standard, i.e. not part time, but instead common practice across the board.

Derm
Psych
Ophtho
Plastic surgery

What else am I missing? Any IM subspecialties?

Let's compile a list of specialties that we're not passionate about but that pay us well so that we can eventually save up enough to take time off from our work to then do things in life we actually want to do.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

Let's compile a list of specialties that we're not passionate about but that pay us well so that we can eventually save up enough to take time off from our work to then do things in life we actually want to do.

While most people wouldn't find all or any of those in their most interested specialties because they are compassionate for it, you make it seem like anyone possibly interested in those fields is only doing it for money or something. Those are 4 quite different fields too so I dont get the sweeping generalization of your point

 

[tracheatoedoc]

LLFFFGG! Boss

Anes, less than 40, 500

 

[deleted446889]

Let's compile a list of specialties that we're not passionate about but that pay us well so that we can eventually save up enough to take time off from our work to then do things in life we actually want to do.

Yeah, its called a job lol

 

[FireInWonderland]

I'm sorry - and maybe I'm wrong, but I have not met a plastic surgeon on the Earth who works 40 hrs/week. Plastic surgery can and often has horrible hours. They don't have much *call*, *emergencies*, or *overnight* work, but they have very busy clinics, they have their primary cases, and then they have all of their reconstruction stuff (even if its just simple breast) where they're at the mercy of another surgeon and always go second and these cases may not even start until 3-4 in the afternoon after you've already worked a long day that probably started at 6am. I see this as a recurring theme from medical students that plastic surgery lifestyle is easy. Maybe other surgeons can weigh in but that's absolute crazy talk to me. Plastic surgery is tough stuff and those surgeons are steely mofos. They get paid super well and they're super smart and passionate, but they wwwwoooorrrrkkkkk for their pennies.

I'm gonna have to agree; my husband is in plastics and I can't tell you the last time we saw him at home before 6 pm when it wasn't his day off. His day usually starts between 5-6 depending on his case load.

 

[ShinySephiroth]

FM. I work 36h/week in the office only. 2020 I grossed 310k. It would've been more but my partner retired in July so the first 6 months of the year were slow, plus 2 months where my numbers just tanked due to COVID. Also took 4 weeks off for vacation and another 1-2 for sick kids/long weekends/COVID quarantines.

If I keep the same numbers for this year that I did August-December of last year I should end up between 375-400k for 2021.

First of all, congrats on the great income! Next - how many years have you been in practice with how many raises? Are you academic as well? Sorry, just trying to understand the full picture. ^_^ Congrats again.

 

[Deecee2DO]

My USMLEs both had a 16 point interval to contain 65% confidence, and yet people talk as if a 235 and 250 are a world apart. These tests are god awful for how they're being used.

Crazy lol fact is a 235 and a 250 are in fact worlds apart. They really are abysmal for how theyre being used i agree

 

[Deecee2DO]

First of all, congrats on the great income! Next - how many years have you been in practice with how many raises? Are you academic as well? Sorry, just trying to understand the full picture. ^_^ Congrats again.

“Grossed” is different isnt it? Vastly different than salary and discretionary income after taxes and all that jazz

 

[Deecee2DO]

Anes, less than 40, 500

I honestly wish I liked anes more that sounds dreamy lol i really appreciate what yall do and I really enjoyed my anes rotation I just didnt think I could do it for 30+ years. Overall its a pretty dope specialty

 

[efle]

Crazy lol 235 and a 250 are worlds apart. They really are abysmal for how theyre being used i agree

Yep, it gets pretty horrifying when you play it out. Imagine you had two friends who were equally intelligent and studious, and their "true" step score was each a 242. One of them gets slightly lucky and hits the upper end of his 65% CI, while the other is slightly unlucky and hits the lower end of the same interval.

One of them is now competitive for any specialty they want with a ~250, and the other has a poor match rate for the competitive fields with a ~235. This is pure chance, and not rare - a full 1/3 of testers randomly fall even further from their true scores than this.

Thank god for pass/fail

 

[Deecee2DO]

Yep, it gets pretty horrifying when you play it out. Imagine you had two friends who were equally intelligent and studious, and their "true" step score was each a 242. One of them gets slightly lucky and hits the upper end of his 65% CI, while the other is slightly unlucky and hits the lower end of the same interval.

One of them is now competitive for any specialty they want with a ~250, and the other has a poor match rate for the competitive fields with a ~235. This is pure chance, and not rare - a full 1/3 of testers randomly fall even further from their true scores than this.

Thank god for pass/fail

Thats a really solid example. Although I dont think P/F is the best scenario for DOs whatsoever I think you bring up a great argument for pro-P/F. I also think despite it alleviating some stress as it relates to numerical scores people sometimes forget how useful busting your butt for Step 1 can be for M3 shelves and the correlation it has with Step 2 scores which is where PDs will now look for comparing candidates. Sorry for going incredibly off topic ladies and gents lmao

 

[turnupthegas]

Anesthesia is still pretty good. Plenty of jobs that are 35-40 hours with pay 300-350. Good vacation. When you’re off you’re off.

 

[efle]

How much do radiologists make starting out? I am trying to plan out how I will pay off my loans if I were to go into radiology, but cannot find a reliable source regarding average starting income.

It's a little more complicated for something like private rads because a lot of groups will start you out low and then, if/when you make partner, your salary jumps way up. The source I use has new hire rads at 300-400 depending on region, jumping to 500-600 for the overall medians (again depending on region).

 

[YCAGA]

It's a little more complicated for something like private rads because a lot of groups will start you out low and then, if/when you make partner, your salary jumps way up. The source I use has new hire rads at 300-400 depending on region, jumping to 500-600 for the overall medians (again depending on region).

I guess that is a little better than $250k...might be able to buy the fancy kind of ramen once you are a partner.

 

[yellowdonkey]

FM. I work 36h/week in the office only. 2020 I grossed 310k. It would've been more but my partner retired in July so the first 6 months of the year were slow, plus 2 months where my numbers just tanked due to COVID. Also took 4 weeks off for vacation and another 1-2 for sick kids/long weekends/COVID quarantines.

If I keep the same numbers for this year that I did August-December of last year I should end up between 375-400k for 2021.

Nice numbers. Are you in a private group? And where are you practicing geographically?

 

[smpmd179]

FM. I work 36h/week in the office only. 2020 I grossed 310k. It would've been more but my partner retired in July so the first 6 months of the year were slow, plus 2 months where my numbers just tanked due to COVID. Also took 4 weeks off for vacation and another 1-2 for sick kids/long weekends/COVID quarantines.

If I keep the same numbers for this year that I did August-December of last year I should end up between 375-400k for 2021.

I definitely have to ask because that is very different from any FM doctors that I’ve talked to. What state?

 

[Dr.K124]

I'm gonna have to agree; my husband is in plastics and I can't tell you the last time we saw him at home before 6 pm when it wasn't his day off. His day usually starts between 5-6 depending on his case load.

It heavily depends on practice setting

 

[Darrow O'Lykos]

I average 50-60 hours a week as a diagnostic radiologist and it feels like I'm swimming in cash. Well, relative to my residency and fellowship paychecks. I'm able to buy a $500 LEGO set whenever I want, so that should tell you enough.

Read like 5 cases all day on the federal government's dime. Make far less $ than private practice sweatshop radiologists do but laugh at them while you peel out of the VA parking lot in your Camry at 3pm

You best believe I smashed that 'follow' button on your profile. Well done @Kaputt

 

[Dr.K124]

It's a little more complicated for something like private rads because a lot of groups will start you out low and then, if/when you make partner, your salary jumps way up. The source I use has new hire rads at 300-400 depending on region, jumping to 500-600 for the overall medians (again depending on region).

Sounds a lot like ophtho in terms of starting quite low and doubling/tripling with partner.

 

[cal75]

I'm an Ophthalmologist. Pay ranges from $200-300k starting, 350-700k as a partner, depending on region and practice setup. Retina pay is much higher. Yes, matching Ophtho is indeed quite competitive. If you're really dedicated and express interest from the start, however, it isn't that bad.

What do you mean by surgical Ophtho? Pure cataracts? Almost impossible to find as a gig, but yes that will easily stay under 45-50 hrs/week and pay insanely well. Comprehensive Ophtho with 1-2 days in the OR will pull the above figures and be under 45-50 hrs a week.

Call in Ophtho is very minimal. Retina used to have it bad in regards to that, but now it's barely a worse lifestyle than comprehensive.

As Neopolymath said, the sky is the limit if you know what you're doing in business.

Also, compared to other surgical residencies, it's pretty cush. Second year can be bad, but 3rd and 4th year typically come in at or below 60 hours a week.

Is this why ophtho is so competitive? The averages online didn't seem to match up with how competitive it is

 

[Dr.K124]

Is this why ophtho is so competitive? The averages online didn't seem to match up with how competitive it is

Averages online are always wrong. Check the Ophtho forum for better #s. Very poor response rate + response bias online. If you're a comprehensive Ophtho in private practice (most), you should be able to get $500k on 45 hours a week, provided you aren't in New York, Cali. Retina? 600-700k. Much higher is possible, but that requires much more effort (and I don't mean more hours working). There is even the rare pure cataract position that easily nets 7 figures in under 50 hrs/w. Emphasis on rare.

Ophtho is competitive because it's basically the only specialty still majority private practice, offers a lifestyle on par with Derm (and very friendly to part-time in late life), is cool as ****, and has that wonderful mix of clinic and OR. The great pay is more of an afterthought here, but sky is the limit depending on your business skills. $/hr in Ophtho is very high.

 

[ThatSerb]

Yeah, its called a job lol

how dare you call the oh so noble act of being a holy physician just a job!

 

[efle]

Ophtho is also very regional, like DR and many others. 75th percentile on the east coast is 400k while the midwest is 600k, for example. Where you practice can matter as much as what you practice for the $/hour.

 

[Fried Plantaris]

Ophtho is also very regional, like DR and many others. 75th percentile on the east coast is 400k while the midwest is 600k, for example. Where you practice can matter as much as what you practice for the $/hour.

Also living in a state w/o income tax can make a huge difference

 

[Dr.K124]

Ophtho is also very regional, like DR and many others. 75th percentile on the east coast is 400k while the midwest is 600k, for example. Where you practice can matter as much as what you practice for the $/hour.

Well, again, those numbers are also wrong. 75th percentile on the east coast is certainly higher than $400k. From offers I've seen recently, $400k on the East Coast is 50th percentile when you hit partner.

But yes, region is very important.

 

[deleted446889]

This thread highlights the saying about intra-specialty income differences being greater than inter-specialty differences.

Seems like one should do what they like and git gud at business.

 

[Student189045]

We’ve had docs from many specialties hit this thread which is awesome, is there any derm representation? Everyone (Med students) always says it’s the best balance of lifestyle/pay but I haven’t actually heard it from people familiar with or within the field. Is the pay legit?

 

[slowthai]

We’ve had docs from many specialties hit this thread which is awesome, is there any derm representation? Everyone (Med students) always says it’s the best balance of lifestyle/pay but I haven’t actually heard it from people familiar with or within the field. Is the pay legit?

It is. Go to the derm forum and you'll see. Only thing is that you're going to work for that money. As in, clinic is pretty intense. Oh, and d'you hear that? That's the sound of private equity breathing down the back of your neck. That big, fat, ugly monster

 

[Dr.K124]

We’ve had docs from many specialties hit this thread which is awesome, is there any derm representation? Everyone (Med students) always says it’s the best balance of lifestyle/pay but I haven’t actually heard it from people familiar with or within the field. Is the pay legit?

from what I understand, it has the same lifestyle as Ophtho with a bit higher average pay. Highest $/hr on average in medicine I believe.

fast-paced like Ophtho too, and similarly dealing with private equity.

 

[efle]

We’ve had docs from many specialties hit this thread which is awesome, is there any derm representation? Everyone (Med students) always says it’s the best balance of lifestyle/pay but I haven’t actually heard it from people familiar with or within the field. Is the pay legit?

Derm can make as much as ophtho/rads with much less call and very chill, short training. But you should spend some time in a busy derm clinic if you're interested in the field - it is a grind.

from what I understand, it has the same lifestyle as Ophtho with a bit higher average pay. Highest $/hr on average in medicine I believe.

fast-paced like Ophtho too, and similarly dealing with private equity.

I think highest hourly goes to nighthawk DR, you can be partnered and make the same as the day guys while working only 120 shifts/year.

 

[Dr.K124]

Derm can make as much as ophtho/rads with much less call and very chill, short training. But you should spend some time in a busy derm clinic if you're interested in the field - it is a grind.


I think highest hourly goes to nighthawk DR, you can be partnered and make the same as the day guys while working only 120 shifts/year.

Well, to be fair, I meant specialties as a whole , but yeah, that sounds very much up there. I'd think close seconds are Mohs and Retina.