Specialties

[SandyH]

Hi,

Just been accepted to a DO school, and I was wondering what specialties are open to average DO students after ACGME and AOA residency merger? I didn't say I was interested in primary care or rural medicine on my interview trail and I don't really want to be locked into primary care if I don't do well at all. Are surgery, ENT, ortho, anesthesiology, ER, or literally anything that's not primary care still visible if you are like ~50% of the class?

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[hbslax4]

Hi,

Just been accepted to a DO school, and I was wondering what specialties are open to average DO students after ACGME and AOA residency merger? I didn't say I was interested in primary care or rural medicine on my interview trail and I don't really want to be locked into primary care if I don't do well at all. Are surgery, ENT, ortho, anesthesiology, ER, or literally anything that's not primary care still visible if you are like ~50% of the class?

I would think anesthesia, gen surgery, and EM are still doable as an average student. Currently, ENT and Ortho require being an above average student so I don’t think that’s doable as an average student now, or after the merger.

This all depends on what you’re qualifying as an average student. There are people who are ranked 50th percentile in class but crush boards; so that’s a little different story.

 

[festivespartan]

Unfortunately, no one really knows what is going to happen with the match after the merger, so we can't really say. It is likely, though, that all of the competitive specialties (ortho, ENT, derm, etc) are only going to get more competitive, if only because (formerly) AOA-exclusive programs will have MD applicants as well. So the competitive specialties that had spots reserved specifically for DOs won't be "protected" anymore, though those programs could still take only DOs if they chose to.

But there are too many variables in the equation to really give an accurate answer to your question. If you kill your boards and get solid SLOE's then your class rank could not really matter. But if every aspect of your residency application is "average" then you'll be looking at the less competitive specialties more and more.

But, my friend, you're accepted to medical school and have an opportunity to work for any specialty. Don't worry about where you'll end up as an "average" student. Shoot for high board scores and be above average and more doors will open for you, rather than having to settle.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Are surgery, ENT, ortho, anesthesiology, ER, or literally anything that's not primary care still visible if you are like ~50% of the class?

Your spectrum of specialties here is pretty broad. Average students (average rank, average boards) are probably still within striking distance of EM, Gas, and that sort of thing. Gen surg is most likely slightly above ER where you want to be above average on boards and be a slightly above average student (although class rank isn’t nearly as important from what our residents tell me). ENT and ortho are a different matter entirely and it doesn’t matter if you are a DO or an MD student you had better be a rockstar if you want a spot. ENT is as competitive as it gets.

Bottom line, yes average students will still have options but the competitive fields are out.

Edit: Have an eye on the future but you should probably focus on not being railroaded by anatomy before you start gunning for ENT.

 

[It's lupus!]

Looking at the only other post you've made on here it seems you're worried about a lot of extraneous things not really applicable to specialty per say. It seems like you might be a little worried about underperforming and getting funneled into a specialty. I'm getting ready to enter school just like you but I would encourage you to shift your perspective. Either way as long as you pass you'll be a doctor and that should be awesome all itself. Arguably you might be worrying a tad early about specialty. From my understanding three quarters of medical students have a shift in preference while in school. I'm right there with you. One step at a time! Just enjoy your first accomplishment.

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[sab3156]

Don't hold your breath for competitive specialties unless you are producing good research, scoring well on Step 1, and are making yourself known to a couple of influential people who will ultimately open the doors for you. That is the way to play the game as a DO, and the most reliable way to match. Ask on the specific subforums for the specialty you are interested in.

 

[It's lupus!]

Don't hold your breath for competitive specialties unless you are producing good research, scoring well on Step 1, and are making yourself known to a couple of influential people who will ultimately open the doors for you. That is the way to play the game as a DO, and the most reliable way to match. Ask on the specific subforums for the specialty you are interested in.

To some extent, isn't that what everyone regardless of initials should be doing? (Not debating that DO creates challenges for residency)


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[QueenJames]

By the time all the extraneous crap that comes with going to a DO school hits you and pummels your morale down to a pinch of glimmering hope where you just want to be done with everybody and everything.... you'll be happy when you match into IM, FM, peds, EM, or psych like the majority of your classmates.

 

[It's lupus!]

By the time all the extraneous crap that comes with going to a DO school hits you and pummels your morale down to a pinch of glimmering hope where you just want to be done with everybody and everything.... you'll be happy when you match into IM, FM, peds, EM, or psych like the majority of your classmates.

Well that was encouraging. Lmao.

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[sab3156]

To some extent, isn't that what everyone regardless of initials should be doing? (Not debating that DO creates challenges for residency)


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You're 100% correct. However, for MDs it is more of a cherry on top rather than a make-or-break issue, as the success of their application doesn't necessarily hinge on their connections and heavy networking in the field - but of course, the connections will help them land spots at specific programs that otherwise may not have interviewed/ranked them. For DOs, it's pretty much the way you have to play the game to reliably match anywhere in the competitive fields. My main point is that DOs generally can't rely on the competitiveness of the application alone to open the doors.

 

[SandyH]

By the time all the extraneous crap that comes with going to a DO school hits you and pummels your morale down to a pinch of glimmering hope where you just want to be done with everybody and everything.... you'll be happy when you match into IM, FM, peds, EM, or psych like the majority of your classmates.

It's a good thing that I already have depression!

 

[QueenJames]

It's a good thing that I already have depression!

You and me both brother.


You and me both.

 

[D4C]

You and me both brother.


You and me both.

Have you even started med school yet? You shouldn't be this salty this soon.

srs

 

[QueenJames]

Have you even started med school yet? You shouldn't be this salty this soon.

srs

I'm a 2nd year in the midst of studying for boards, balancing the garbage science of OPP, and avoiding all secret gunners my classmates did a good job of hiding themselves amongst.

I pray to be in your shoes one day oh wise and rested RESIDENT.

Teach me how.

Pleeze.

 

[SandyH]

I'm a 2nd year in the midst of studying for boards, balancing the garbage science of OPP, and avoiding all secret gunners my classmates did a good job of hiding themselves amongst.

I pray to be in your shoes one day oh wise and rested 4th year.

Teach me how.

Pleeze.

What are you hoping to do for specialty?

 

[D4C]

I'm a 2nd year in the midst of studying for boards, balancing the garbage science of OPP, and avoiding all secret gunners my classmates did a good job of hiding themselves amongst.

I pray to be in your shoes one day oh wise and rested 4th year.

Teach me how.

Pleeze.

Boards explains the saltyness. Resident beeteedubs

 

[QueenJames]

Boards explains the saltyness. Resident beeteedubs

Please forgive me sir.

I went back and corrected my post.

Show me the way big homie.

 

[QueenJames]

What are you hoping to do for specialty?

Whatever makes the most that doesn't involve poop, pee, or blood.

In all seriousness though, I don't know.

I'm approaching boards as if I'm wanting to do neurosurgery.

If all else fails, as a DO in primary care I will never go hungry so I'm not really stressing too much about that as that is what third year is for.

We shall see amigo.

We shall see.

 

[QueenJames]

Well that was encouraging. Lmao.

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Just being honest man. It may be different for you but second year is it's own unique beast. You will see once you begin.

 

[68PGunner]

My tolerance for 2nd yr bs goes down w/ each passing day in which I can’t wait to gtfo of the clutch of the DO admin bs.

Will be taking continuous heavy tequila shots after the first week of June. I’m to the point where I am about to not give a crap of the COMLEX by not opening that green book.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

My tolerance for 2nd yr bs goes down w/ each passing day in which I can’t wait to gtfo of the clutch of the DO admin bs.

Will be taking continuous heavy tequila shots after the first week of June. I’m to the point where I am about to not give a crap of the COMLEX by not opening that green book.

If it makes you feel better, you are going through the worst time of medical school right now (we go to the same school, so I know). Things will get better tho. Then they'll get much much better (4th year).

 

[hallowmann]

If it makes you feel better, you are going through the worst time of medical school right now (we go to the same school, so I know). Things will get better tho. Then they'll get much much better (4th year).

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the second half of second year is the worst time in med school no matter what school you go to. It just gets worse and worse in terms of anxiety and lack of a life until after boards.

 

[Anti-PD1]

Hi,

Just been accepted to a DO school, and I was wondering what specialties are open to average DO students after ACGME and AOA residency merger? I didn't say I was interested in primary care or rural medicine on my interview trail and I don't really want to be locked into primary care if I don't do well at all. Are surgery, ENT, ortho, anesthesiology, ER, or literally anything that's not primary care still visible if you are like ~50% of the class?

I can only speak to two specialities. Neurosurgery and ophthalmology are extremely competitive for a DO. You have to do very well on boards, research i.e. papers, and attain meaningful letters from big names.

 

[Goro]

Hi,

Just been accepted to a DO school, and I was wondering what specialties are open to average DO students after ACGME and AOA residency merger? I didn't say I was interested in primary care or rural medicine on my interview trail and I don't really want to be locked into primary care if I don't do well at all. Are surgery, ENT, ortho, anesthesiology, ER, or literally anything that's not primary care still visible if you are like ~50% of the class?

Straight from the Program director's survey: those programs most willing to rank/interview DOs:
Emergency Medicine
Child Neurology
Transitional Year
Internal Medicine
Neurology
Internal Medicine/Pediatrics
Psychiatry
Anesthesiology
Pathology
Pediatrics
Family Medicine
Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation

A little less likely:
Rads
Ob/Gyn


Hardest to get into:
Vascular Surgery
Orthopaedic Surgery
Neurological Surgery
Otolaryngology
Plastic Surgery
Dermatology
Radiation Oncology
Surgery
Thoracic Surgery

 

[68PGunner]

Hi,

Just been accepted to a DO school, and I was wondering what specialties are open to average DO students after ACGME and AOA residency merger? I didn't say I was interested in primary care or rural medicine on my interview trail and I don't really want to be locked into primary care if I don't do well at all. Are surgery, ENT, ortho, anesthesiology, ER, or literally anything that's not primary care still visible if you are like ~50% of the class?

To answer your question, if you're around the 50% for boards as in 227-229 Step 1 min and assuming that you did everything right as in HP/Honor for interested specialties, good LORs, good auditions, and geographically flexible, your chances are solid for matching into:

Ob/Gyn
Emergency Medicine
Child Neurology
Internal Medicine (Community programs; need at least 240 to get into an university program)
Neurology
Psychiatry
Anesthesiology
Pathology
Pediatrics
Family Medicine
Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation
General Surgery

Your preclinical grades don't matter jack as a DO; your clinical grades do matter though.

 

[It's lupus!]

Well good thing I have no interest in surgery. The DO friendly specialties look fantastic to me per goro's post

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[Roxas]

My tolerance for 2nd yr bs goes down w/ each passing day in which I can’t wait to gtfo of the clutch of the DO admin bs.

Will be taking continuous heavy tequila shots after the first week of June. I’m to the point where I am about to not give a crap of the COMLEX by not opening that green book.

It gets better, but you're never out of the clutch of the admin BS until you have a diploma in your hand.

 

[Gray Fox]

It's a good thing that I already have depression!

Reading this made me so sad...

 

[Gray Fox]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure the second half of second year is the worst time in med school no matter what school you go to. It just gets worse and worse in terms of anxiety and lack of a life until after boards.

Naw...if you want to go to a moderately competitive or very competitive specialty (esp. one that requires away rotations, strong clinical grades, and high Step 2 CK) in a strong program in a decent city...the stress doesn't go down until after interviews. I'm 100% sure we've all collectively lost decades of our lives from the meat grinder we call med school...Seriously though, stay physically and mentally healthy. Work out. Spend time with friends. Don't let the process crush your soul, because it will if you let it.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Any reason why grades don't matter for DOs in particular?

Because unlike DO schools, MD schools have AOA. And so pre-clinical grades affect AOA status in their case. However, for ours since we don't have AOA, it doesn't really mean squat.

 

[hallowmann]

Naw...if you want to go to a moderately competitive or very competitive specialty (esp. one that requires away rotations, strong clinical grades, and high Step 2 CK) in a strong program in a decent city...the stress doesn't go down until after interviews. I'm 100% sure we've all collectively lost decades of our lives from the meat grinder we call med school...Seriously though, stay physically and mentally healthy. Work out. Spend time with friends. Don't let the process crush your soul, because it will if you let it.

The stress in med school is highest in that part of 4th year, sure. I wouldn't call it the worst part of med school though.

 

[Gray Fox]

The stress in med school is highest in that part of 4th year, sure. I wouldn't call it the worst part of med school though.

When you're doing away rotations at top tier programs with some of the smartest, most hardcore kids in the nation...I think, for me, that qualifies as the worst part of med school. Step 1 was tough, but not that tough. Where are you in your training?

Good news is if you aren't doing aways, or after that part, the glory days of med school come hard and fast.

 

[SandyH]

Technically we have Sigma Sigma Phi, but it's more of a combination of grades + community service, and at my school, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to who actually gets chosen. We have to have a cumulative GPA at 85% to get invited to apply, then get chosen based on a personal statement and CV, with a "maximum of 25% of graduating class eligible for membership".

How important is getting to be a part of SSP then? Seems like it's not a big deal now.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Technically we have Sigma Sigma Phi, but it's more of a combination of grades + community service, and at my school, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason as to who actually gets chosen. We have to have a cumulative GPA at 85% to get invited to apply, then get chosen based on a personal statement and CV, with a "maximum of 25% of graduating class eligible for membership".

Which unfortunately doesn't matter to an ACGME residency PD who only knows AOA. It makes SSP practically worthless if you were a member and wanted an ACGME residency.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

How important is getting to be a part of SSP then? Seems like it's not a big deal now.

It’s not honestly.

 

[SandyH]

How do you guys even find time for extracurricular activities on top of school and board? I can't imagine committing as much time to non-academic stuff as I did in undergrad.

 

[sab3156]

How important is getting to be a part of SSP then? Seems like it's not a big deal now.

No one in the ACGME world knows or cares about it.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

How do you guys even find time for extracurricular activities on top of school and board? I can't imagine committing as much time to non-academic stuff as I did in undergrad.

Time management with a planner. No you won't be able to do the same stuff you did in undergrad but if you aren't able to still have 1 or 2 hobbies in medical school then you are doing it wrong

 

[ortnakas]

Will be taking continuous heavy tequila shots after the first week of June. I’m to the point where I am about to not give a crap of the COMLEX by not opening that green book.

Pretty sure you’re exaggerating for dramatic effect, but for the love of all that’s holy, please don’t do this. A few days reviewing Savarese and COMBANK won’t kill you, and I really don’t want to see a “rocked USMLE, failed COMLEX and now I’m off schedule” post from you next summer.