St.Christophers medical school

[FungManX]

Hi,


I'm just wondering a bit about this school..
What is the avg gpa/mcat of accepted applicants to the 4 year MD programme?

Does anyone know how residency spots in the states are like for people who have graduated from this school?

Thanks in advance

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[f_w]

> I'm just wondering a bit about this school.

A lot of people are wondering 'a bit' about St Chris.

- It is a Senegalese medical school with a branch campus in London. Your diploma will be issued from the main school in Senegal (you might want to ask your questions in the 'Africa' forum).

- The school is young (depending on which of their publications you read anywhere from 4-8 years). As a result, there are only few graduates who could possibly have obtained residencies in the US.

- The only place you are not a foreign graduate from this school: Senegal.

- A couple of state medical boards have specific rules excluding graduates from 'unapproved' schools from licensure or allowing only graduates of a list of 'approved' schools (CA, NY and a couple more). Be sure to check these lists before you dump a lot of money into this school.

- The WHO doesn't 'approve' medical schools. FAIMER also doesn't 'approve' medical schools. Both institutions will take whatever information the Senegalese goverment gives to them and put it into their directories.

 

[bts4202]

Hi,


I'm just wondering a bit about this school..
What is the avg gpa/mcat of accepted applicants to the 4 year MD programme?

Does anyone know how residency spots in the states are like for people who have graduated from this school?

Thanks in advance

Hi,

I am a 4th year at St chris, feel free to email me with any questions. the average GPA of accepted applicants is somewhere around 3.0 - 3.2 (don't know exactley) and MCAT is not required.

The school has hundreds of grads in residency in most states throughout the US. This year was the first year that our oldest grads finished their residencies, so we now have a handful of fully licensed grads as well. Our grads have achieved residency in all ranges of programs. You can see a partial list at http://www.stchris.edu/alumni/resmatches.edu and see some of this years matches here: http://www.valuemd.com/thread29910.html

Some of the more notable matches were at: Mayo Clinic, UMass, Tulane, LSU, Cook County, Mercer University, Rush Medical College, Univ of South Florida, MSU, Univ of Wyoming, Dalhousie Univ, Dartmouth, Univ of Tennessee, and many others (got bored of typing)..lol

Again, feel free to email me if you have any questions.

 

[FungManX]

Hi,

I am a 4th year at St chris, feel free to email me with any questions.

Hey bts4202,

I've just got a few more questions.. if you don't mind I'll ask them here so
for anyone else that is curious they can quickly gather the information here instead of you having to type it out everytime 😛

1) about clinical rotations.. is it actually possible to do rotations in canada or usa?

2) which states do not accept people from this school?

3) what kind of professors are there..? are they good at teaching?
are they... uk trained doctors? N.american trained doctors?... african trained doctors??

thats it for now..
anyone that has any other quesitons please feel free to ask.. I'm kind of new at the medical admissions stuff

and thank you for your replys bts4202

 

[bts4202]

1. You can do all of your clinicals in the US or the UK.. your choice. You can do some electives in canada, they have special rules that you must follow. i am not well versed in that however, so it might be better to talk to someone else about that.

2. Cali, kansas, and texas are the only states that it is essentially garunteed you will be turned down for a license. Cali has an approval process we have not entered into yet. kansas says a school must be open 15 years, we have not been. Texas has very strict requirements including one stating that a school must have their own residency programs, which we do not. Every place else is either easy or is difficult but possible if you follow their rules(lots of paperwork and hassles). not much different than most foriegn schools really.

3. The proffs are like anywhere else... some good, some bad. Most are either UK, US, or indian trained. You can see the proffs and their qualifications here: http://stchris.edu/about/faculty.php

your welcome, if you have any other questions, feel free.

 

[Miklos]

The school has hundreds of grads in residency in most states throughout the US. This year was the first year that our oldest grads finished their residencies, so we now have a handful of fully licensed grads as well. Our grads have achieved residency in all ranges of programs. You can see a partial list at http://www.stchris.edu/alumni/resmatches.edu and see some of this years matches here: http://www.valuemd.com/thread29910.html

Some of the more notable matches were at: Mayo Clinic, UMass, Tulane, LSU, Cook County, Mercer University, Rush Medical College, Univ of South Florida, MSU, Univ of Wyoming, Dalhousie Univ, Dartmouth, Univ of Tennessee, and many others (got bored of typing)..lol

Again, feel free to email me if you have any questions.

I have serious doubts about St. Christopher's match list.

SC's website says:

St. Christopher's College of Medicine does not make it a policy to exploit its graduates. This list is not a comprehensive one and a majority of our graduates have asked not to be included on it. St. Christopher's College of Medicine will not list the names of its graduates without their expressed permission and will respect their privacy.

Interesting, isn't it?

You'll find initials only. I've tried to match the names to their programs in the past (presently, don't have time) and found that with one exception (initials M.O.) I was unable to.

For an example of how I think a match list should look like, see (for instance):

http://www.rossmed.edu/Residency_Appts_/residency_appts_.html

You'll note that the full names of the grads are matched to the programs.

Others that have better match lists include: SGU and Saba. AUC, last I checked only gave the names of the programs.

 

[bts4202]

Miklos, you are entitled to your opinion.

However, the match list is most certainly accurate.

 

[neilc]

a good policy, in general: trust, but verify.

in the past, st chris has always hid behind these little rules for secrecy. if you cannot independantly verify the grads (ie more than some current students telling you they exist), then it is always best to assume they are not credible. same for licensed grads.

another issue...when confronted with licensure questions, st chris will often say "there should be no problems" or "we are in a similar position to most other schools"...well, there "should be no problems" is simply optimistic thinking, as nobody knows until somebody gets licensed. and, a similar position to "most" offshore schools is nothing to brag about. many are in the same, unproven boat as st chris. when compared to the better schools, st chris lags far behind.

at this point in time, it is still a risk to attend st chris, they still hide behind confidentiality (i find it amusing that you can only get guided tours of the campus...they prob don't want you to uncover an unhappy student while you are there, hurts the recruiting pitch...), they still WILL have issues in several states, and have only one verifiable licensed grad working in louisiana....other schools such as saba, auc, ross and sgu do not have these issues, and are a bit more transparent (see match list postings, complete faculty listings, no id badge locked door policy or cia clearance required for information, etc...)

choose wisely, and with an eye out for potential complications. why court disaster, when there are so many other good options.

 

[bts4202]

Nielc is correct. St chris has enacted strict security measures in the wake of the London bombings. Prior to that, the school was wide open for people to come in any time they wished. However now, If you choose to come for a visit, know that you need to have an appointment and will not be allowed access to any building without a student ID or an escort (With the obvious exception of the admin building). It is very sad that these type measures are neccesary these days, but such is life.

Neilc is also right that you should verify everything. Email me and I can give you some verifiable info if you wish.

 

[f_w]

I guess the SCWP (St Christopher Web Patrol) has homed in on this thread (next thing we will all get cease and desist orders).

> The school has hundreds of grads in residency in most states
> throughout the US.

Hundreds of graduates in residencies ?

If that is the case, the list posted on your website looks a bit thin. You also might want to refrain from calling it a 'match list' as it is rather a collection of graduates who made it into a residency at one point or another rather than a true list of this years NRMP results (some of the people on the list are 2nd years).

 

[bts4202]

If that is the case, the list posted on your website looks a bit thin. You also might want to refrain from calling it a 'match list' as it is rather a collection of graduates who made it into a residency at one point or another rather than a true list of this years NRMP results (some of the people on the list are 2nd years).

Absolutely, the list on the st chris website is NOT this years list. it is only a collection of previous years matches who agreed to have their info posted. The second one is this years matches, however, it is all self reported, so it is not comprehensive at all.

 

[azskeptic]

BTS, what is NJ doing with you these days? I still remember this article

http://www.nj.com/news/jjournal/ind...41518255060.xml

SPC partnership with med school hastily called off

St. Christopher's diplomas said to be meaningless in N.J.

Tuesday, March 30, 2004

By Ken Thorbourne
Journal staff writer

A partnership between St. Peter's College in Jersey City and an
overseas medical school was killed last night, two weeks after it was
announced, amid mounting concerns that its graduates would not be
recognized as medical doctors by the state of New Jersey.

Touting the benefit of adding international flair to one's education,
St. Peter's College officials had announced in mid-March an agreement
with St. Christopher's School of Medicine in Luton, England, to train
medical students in seven years.

Students would spend the first three years obtaining an undergraduate
degree in biology at St. Peter's College, and the next four at the
medical school to complete their doctorates in medicine, according to
the agreement.

But an investigation by The Jersey Journal raised serious questions
about the 4-year-old medical school's ability to keep its end of the
bargain.

Asked about the medical school yesterday, an official with a national
organization of college registrars and enrollment officers said he was
very familiar with St. Christopher's.

"I know what it purports to be," said Dale Gough, director of
international education services for the American Association of
Collegiate Registrars and Admissions Officers.

"They aren't really a medical school that is recognized anywhere. The
embassy in Senegal said the school is in the back of a doctor's
office. The U.K., I believe, has asked them to stop listing offices in
England," Gough said.

And an official with the state's Board of Examiners said the medical
school's graduates would likely not be accepted at any three-year
medical residency program at a New Jersey hospital, a prerequisite to
becoming a full-fledged doctor in this state.

"It raises questions when a school is training students at a place
other than where it is licensed to be a school," said Ian Orr,
executive director of the state's Board of Examiners, the licensing
body for physicians in the state.

The school is chartered in Senegal, Africa, even though it lists its
main teaching location as Luton, England, located 20 minutes outside
of London by train, Orr said.

(excerpted above)

 

[bts4202]

Well, NJ has allowed 2 of our grads to do residency in their state and has stated that they will license our grads on a case by case basis. And the allegations of St Chris being nothing more than a room in the back of an office were obviously proven to be false with all this info:

Inauguration of our University and incorporation of our college into it, including pics of our college in senegal and the Senegalese president in attendance.
http://www.aaii.info/uehin.html

Pics of our Director at large working with Kofi Anan, meeting Tony Blair and Jimmy carter, speaking at the Conference Sustainable, etc
http://www.aaii.info/gallery.html

All about the mission and actions of AAII:
http://www.aaii.info/about.html

More info on organization, school, and awards/recognitions recieved:
http://home.earthlink.net/~halimcisse/aaii-2.html

Nomination for the UN Gate's Award for Global Health:
http://home.earthlink.net/~halimcisse/gates_award-letter.html

List of the non-governmental organizations in consultative
status with the Economic and Social Council
http://www.un.org/documents/ecosoc/docs/1998/e1998-inf6.htm


Prior WANGO award winner for education: http://www.wango.org/2005/overview.aspx

Awards are presented in diverse categories, including Peace &
Security, Education, Human Rights, Environment, Inter-religious
Cooperation, and Family & Peace. Among past award winners are such
NGOs as the Arias Foundation, the Bahrain Women's Society, the Congress
of Racial Equality, the Inuit Circumpolar Conference (Canada), the
United Religions Institute, the African American Islamic Institute, the
Institute for Responsible Fatherhood and Family Revitalization, Women
in Security, Conflict Management and Peace (WISCOMP), the Buccoo Reef
Trust, and Small Kindness. In 2003, during the conference in Bangkok ,
Dr. Wangari Maathai's Green Belt Movement was recognized with the
Environment Award, just one year before she became recipient of the
2004 Nobel Peace Prize.

More info on education award: http://www.wango.org/other_sites/wango2002/overview.htm

The WANGO Education Award was given to the African American Islamic Institute (AAII) and was received by its Founder, Shaykh Hassan Ali Cisse. AAII was founded as a non-governmental organization in Senegal, West Africa in 1988 by Shaykh Cisse, a respected Islamic scholar and leader. AAII has since grown to be an international NGO headquartered in Senegal but with affiliates in Africa, Europe and North America. AAII’s mission is to develop a capability for sustainable human and natural resource development that focuses on education, as well as human rights, health care, food and water availability, alleviation of poverty, and peace. The AAII commitment to education in conjunction with a code of personal responsibility along with numerous other programs serves as the basis for the inaugural WANGO Education Award 2002.

 

[f_w]

> Well, NJ has allowed 2 of our grads to do residency in their
> state and has stated that they will license our grads on a
> case by case basis.

bts4202
Just to satisfy my curiosity. Are you a:
- student of St Christophers ?
- employee of St Christophers ?
- faculty of St Christophers ?

You seem to be very familiar with the school and its history. Why is it that a school run by a islamic university in a french speaking country has a decisively christian english name like 'St Christopher' ??

And why do all your weblinks refer to the AAII rather than the medical school itself. Yes, great, your sheikh has met Jimmy Carter and Obasanjo, but what does that tell the interested applicant about the ability of the school to teach medicine (and the graduate to obtain a residency position in the US).

Are you guys still affiliated with the University of Sudan ?

http://home.earthlink.net/~halimcisse/agreement.html

 

[bts4202]

I am a 4th year student. I make it my buissness to know as much as I can about my school. I love my school and I am very proud of its amazing accomplishments. The proof of its ability to teach medicine has been given numerous times, go re-read.

What was questioned in that article was the existence of the senegal campus at all. Well, all those links prove, not only that the school exists down there, but that it is run by well respected, world recognized, leaders in education and african development. Show me one caribbean medical school administrator that has the kind of recognition and support that our director at large does, i doubt you can.

 

[f_w]

I find the links to someones earthlink homepage to 'proove' the existence of a Senegal campus somewhat amusing.

P.S.
If Obasanjo shakes your hand, it doesn't mean that he respects you....

 

[bts4202]

I find the links to someones earthlink homepage to 'proove' the existence of a Senegal campus somewhat amusing.

P.S.
If Obasanjo shakes your hand, it doesn't mean that he respects you....

haha, excellent reply

 

[f_w]

> but that it is run by well respected, world recognized, leaders in
> education and african development.

And that is the part where it gets interesting. How does the training of physicians for the US and canadian market at a location in the UK advance 'african development' ?

And again: Why does a islamic-french medical school carry the name of a catholic Saint ?

> The proof of its ability to teach medicine has been given
> numerous times, go re-read.

Please refresh my memory. What 'proof' have you provided on behalf of your school ?

 

[bts4202]

> but that it is run by well respected, world recognized, leaders in
> education and african development.

And that is the part where it gets interesting. How does the training of physicians for the US and canadian market at a location in the UK advance 'african development' ?

We are talking about the senegal campus.

> The proof of its ability to teach medicine has been given
> numerous times, go re-read.

Please refresh my memory. What 'proof' have you provided on behalf of your school ?

as i said, please go re-read.

 

[f_w]

Smoke, mirrors....

 

[neilc]

smoke and mirrors is a cornerstone of the st chris marketing plan.

 

[bts4202]

Denying clear cuts facts and evidence which have been placed in front of them, changing the subject when wrong, and "snipe and run" tactics has always been the cornerstone of the detractor's propoganda.

 

[f_w]

What facts, what evidence ?

(Or are you talking about the links to some private earthlink homepages?)

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

here is the evidence against St chris.

http://www.aaimg.com/list/cambridge.html#1

This webpage is responsible for checking up on schools such as this. It is clearly a fly by night institution. Be careful

 

[f_w]

I wouldn't use AAIMG as a beacon of truth or even 'evidence' either. Their background is a bit shady, a couple of months ago there was a rather entertaining thread about this shadow organization.

 

[bts4202]

I wouldn't use AAIMG as a beacon of truth or even 'evidence' either. Their background is a bit shady, a couple of months ago there was a rather entertaining thread about this shadow organization.

for once, we agree..lol.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Hey 🙂

Well I read alot of the page and im unsure of what they would have to gain in misleading people. Also, i looked up the info presented on St Chris and found it all to be true including how they RENT space and have been accredited through Senegal.

Also this link http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm is pretty clear and its from the US Dept. of Justice. Here is the copy. Im sorry but if anything is shady its St Chris. I cant speak for the AAIMG (i only know whats on their webpage) but the info provided all checked out.

Media Releases

Attorney General Closes Down Unlicensed Medical School


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
July 24, 2000

Attorney General Hardy Myers today announced that an Oregon couple operating an unlicensed medical school based out of the West Indies, with some classes being taught in Klamath Falls and Eugene, is out-of-business in Oregon.

Named in a temporary restraining order and a lawsuit filed late Friday in Lane County Circuit Court are Daniel and Barbara Harrington of Eugene and their company Interactive Technology Group, Inc. (ITG) that did business as St. John’s University School of Medicine of Montserrat, West Indies. ITG also operated an online business selling "pay as you learn" multi-media educational software by monthly subscription. Some of the courses offered include Neuro Anatomy, Lung Pathology, Cat Lab and Lab Animal Science trainer.

Pending a show-cause hearing scheduled July 31 in Eugene, the defendants are prohibited from soliciting students for any educational programs by telephone, by e-mail, by web site or in person. Defendants are restrained from removing any business assets out-of-state, including funds held in Oregon bank accounts.

"Students hoping to obtain a medical degree have been duped by this supposed medical school," Myers said. "The Harringtons have been operating an unlicensed ‘school of medicine’ since 1999 and it appears credits earned by students are worthless."

The lawsuit alleges that the Harringtons misrepresented the school’s legal status with the Montserrat government and described the school’s "medical curriculum" as designed to meet the most stringent standards required for medical licensure within the United States. Neither statement was true.

The lawsuit seeks civil penalties of $25,000 per violation; restitution to students and attorneys fees and investigative costs; and to permanently prohibit the Harringtons from conducting any further business in Oregon.

Department of Justice investigators were informed of possible problems with the West Indies school by a student from Michigan, who paid $13,600 for a summer term of classes to be held in Montserrat only to discover that the school was not accredited. The student had earlier attended the school’s winter and spring "distance learning" sessions in Klamath Falls and Eugene.

The defendants told students questioning the school’s credentials that their St. John’s transcripts would be accredited through St. Christopher’s College of Medicine with campuses in both Cambridge, England and Dakar, Senegal and an "office of registrar" in Florida. Students were encouraged to view the St. Christopher’s web site, which features campus photos of Cambridge University, not St. Christopher’s College of Medicine. The actual school is in an upstairs location in a nearby neighborhood.

According to the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization (ODA) and the World Health Organization (WHO), St. John’s University School of Medicine is not currently licensed by government agencies in Montserrat or Oregon and St. Christopher’s College of Medicine does not appear to be licensed or accredited by anyone. In Britain and Senegal, medical students are required to take classes for five to eight years in order to obtain a degree. St. Christopher’s web site offers a four—year program in both of those countries.

Students contemplating undergraduate or graduate programs should thoroughly research all schools. Prospective students should ask for written materials and look for information online. Check on credentials by calling the Oregon Office of Degree Authorization at (541) 687-7452 or online at www.osac.state.or.us. Students also may check for complaints by calling the Attorney General’s consumer hotline at (503) 378-4320 (Salem area only), (503) 229-5576 (Portland area only) or toll-free at 1-877-877-9392. Consumer protection information also is available online at www.doj.state.or.us.

# # # #

CONTACT: Jan Margosian, (503) 378-4732 (media line only)

St. Christopher University School of Medicine,
Luton, England, 2000
Deficiencies
Section I a,b,c,d,f,g
Section II b,c,e,f,g,j,k,l
Section III a,b,c,d,f,h,I,k
Section IV c, d,f,g,
Section V b,c,d,e,f,h,j,k,l,m,n
Section VI a,b,c,d,e,f,g,I,j
Section VII b,e,f,
Section VIII e

St. Christopher has given up the more prestigious environs of Cambridge and moved its operation to the more mundane campus of Luton University, just north of London. Other than downscaling the location, little has changed about this operation. The labs and classrooms are a few rented rooms from the local university and the bulk of the faculty are undergraduate Luton faculty moonlighting or unemployed M.D.’s from former British colonies who are unable to pass the PLAB or practice in the U.K. There are a few Ph.D.’s that are both students and teachers. There are a large number of transfer students from the Dominican Republic and other Caribbean schools, many with a history of failures. The operation in Senegal is virtually non-existent; a call to the Senegal “office” is answered by a local lady with limited English who cannot name any local faculty, or students or describe any teaching activities at the hospital. Although this school only opened in 2000, it advertises US clerkships in 72 “Greenbook” hospitals and board passing rates of 100% in 2000 and 82% in 2001. This type of advertising is not surprising since the promoter is a graduate and former vice dean of Grace University who never completed postgraduate training. St Christopher had a fiscal and credential relationship with the disastrous St. John's University School of Medicine, closed by the Attorney General of Oregon. See http://www.doj.state.or.us/releases/rel072500.htm.

 

[bts4202]

By your own words, you have shown that the article you presented from the oregon DOJ is not accurate. You know, as does everyone, that st chris is accreditted through senegal, but the article claims that st chris is not accreditted anywhere. Pretty blatant discrepency. Also, the school in question is "St. John's", which was acting inappropriately and when busted, claimed to have some sort of agreement with St. Christophers. In fact, they had no such agreement and the issue was cleared up promptly. People pushed into a corner will often "pass the buck" by trying to blame others, but when shown to be untrue, the innocent should not suffer for others mistakes.

The AAIMG is a scam, do a simple search on this site to find the dozens of threads discussing that fact. They have never visited nor reviewed anything at st chris... ever. They are run by a competing medical school to try and discredit their competition while making their own school look good.

 

[f_w]

Note that the investigation by the Oregon AG was in 2000. This was in all likelihood before the school 'went legal' and got the charter from Senegal.

But given its history, you do have to wonder who the characters are who actually run the place. I suspect that one of them poses as bts4202 on this forum. Many of his replies just don't seem to come from a medstudent. 'Our students' 'our director at large' and so on (heck, what medschool has a 'director'. I know of a dean or maybe a provost, but a 'director' ??)

I wouldn't give too much credit to these AAIMG folks. There are just too many unanswered questions about this company. While the allegation that they extort money from these private medical schools is plausible, I haven't seen any proof to support it.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Note that the investigation by the Oregon AG was in 2000. This was in all likelihood before the school 'went legal' and got the charter from Senegal.

But given its history, you do have to wonder who the characters are who actually run the place. I suspect that one of them poses as bts4202 on this forum. Many of his replies just don't seem to come from a medstudent. 'Our students' 'our director at large' and so on (heck, what medschool has a 'director'. I know of a dean or maybe a provost, but a 'director' ??)

I wouldn't give too much credit to these AAIMG folks. There are just too many unanswered questions about this company. While the allegation that they extort money from these private medical schools is plausible, I haven't seen any proof to support it.

BTS

You should really read closer and between the lines. The article was written before St chris got a charter. However, the past always repeats itself. There is no denying this is not exactly a "professional" organization; if they did something like this in the past..... The place is obviously shady as a sewer.

Moreover, they RENT space. If you read any website about schools that are fly by night this is exactly what they mention. Its even in a number of pre med books on medical school selection (which i have right in front of me) mentions you never goto a school which dosent own its own facilities as that suggests lack of permanacy.

In anycase, the AAIMG may or may not be credible, i have no idea. However, the information they reference about St Chris's is easy to verify. Lastly, why do you suppose its Charter is in Senegal and not the UK? Think about that for a second.

Anywho, informed choices are always the best ones.

 

[FungManX]

wow this thread has almost turned into a war!
Thanks for all the info guys.. I guess its safest to just stick to the big
name universities if I plan to leave Can/USA to study..

 

[neilc]

wow this thread has almost turned into a war!
Thanks for all the info guys.. I guess its safest to just stick to the big
name universities if I plan to leave Can/USA to study..

great idea. offshore education is a risky prospect even at the well established schools. save the new, unproven schools for those that have no other options. it is foolish to give up things like licensability and future opportunity when there are plenty of good offshore schools out there that do not have these issues.

 

[neilc]

The AAIMG is a scam, do a simple search on this site to find the dozens of threads discussing that fact. They have never visited nor reviewed anything at st chris... ever. They are run by a competing medical school to try and discredit their competition while making their own school look good.

1. how do you know they never visited st chris????

2. while i agree that the aaimg is not a site to be trusted, it does have some good info on there. and, better than saying "the site is bad" would be addressing the problems they claim are present at st chris. even if it is a bogus site, if the things it says about st chris are accurate, than it does have some value.

3. which other school runs this site? pretty bold statement. have any proof? it seems kinda crazy to think this, when several schools come out looking good on the site. a rather indirect marketing approach that actually makes people aware of many good options out there.

again, IMHO, aaimg is not transparent enough to have a lot of credibility. but, they are pretty spot on with my school, and with others they evaluate. so, they do have some good info. don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, take the info it offers and verify/clarify it. it can be a good starting point for your research into offshore schools.

 

[f_w]

One problem with these 'roaming' medical schools is that one day you might show up for class and an apologetic note on the door informs you that due to some international conspiracy they had to close their doors. The administrator (and your tuition 'trust' account) have moved to the third world country where the school came from. And as the school has no assets in the UK you could get a warrant for, you are left holding the bag. (see Kigezi).

 

[bts4202]

BTS

You should really read closer and between the lines. The article was written before St chris got a charter. However, the past always repeats itself. There is no denying this is not exactly a "professional" organization; if they did something like this in the past..... The place is obviously shady as a sewer.

Moreover, they RENT space. If you read any website about schools that are fly by night this is exactly what they mention. Its even in a number of pre med books on medical school selection (which i have right in front of me) mentions you never goto a school which dosent own its own facilities as that suggests lack of permanacy.

Well, that is still not very meaningful either. In teh UK, all buissnesses rent.. that is just the way it is. This is not the caribb where you can buy 200 acres of land for $1.50 an acre. Even so, the school St. matthew's University in the caribbean, which has been approved by the state of NY and recognized by the DOE as having equivalent accreditation to the US, also rents their buildings. There is nothing wrong with long term leases. St chris is here to stay, much to the dismay of many caribb advocates.

In anycase, the AAIMG may or may not be credible, i have no idea. However, the information they reference about St Chris's is easy to verify. Lastly, why do you suppose its Charter is in Senegal and not the UK? Think about that for a second.

Anywho, informed choices are always the best ones.

You are trying to knock being chartered in senegal?? I mean, come on. Is it better that a caribbean island with several thousand citizens and NO colleges or universities of any kind should have 3 or 4 medical schools on it? Is it better that these caribb schools set up shop and do not provide any/very little training for locals? Is it better than any american businessman can come to an island and throw around some money, promise that students will put money into their economy, and then be able to set up shop in any way they see fit?

At least st chris has a full medical school in senegal training the senegalese (and other africans) to be doctors to their own people. At least st chris has several clinics throughout senegal treating people for free. At least st chris has multiple simple humanitarian programs that teach the poor of senegal how to read, write, stay healthy, etc etc. What do any of these caribb schools do for their countries besides occasionally hold a clinic so that the american med students can practice on people without the risk of a lawsuit?

But given its history, you do have to wonder who the characters are who actually run the place. I suspect that one of them poses as bts4202 on this forum. Many of his replies just don't seem to come from a medstudent. 'Our students' 'our director at large' and so on (heck, what medschool has a 'director'. I know of a dean or maybe a provost, but a 'director' ??)

Its called being informed. All the information i have provided can be found here:

http://stchris.edu/about/administration.php
http://stchris.edu/about/senegal.php
http://www.aaii.info/shifa.htm
http://www.aaii.info/uehin.html

 

[bts4202]

wow this thread has almost turned into a war!
Thanks for all the info guys.. I guess its safest to just stick to the big
name universities if I plan to leave Can/USA to study..

If you want to practice in california, it is definetly a better choice to attend a school like SGU, Ross, AUC, or SABA. However, st chris is definately a good choice in schools that can get you where you want to be. All it takes for most people is one visit to the Luton campus to realize that a lot of the detractors are full of hot air.

BTW, I do recommend that you visit the campus of any school you are considering attending, it will tell you quite a bit.

 

[neilc]

how does visiting the campus tell you anything about the potential problems of st chris? ie licensure issues, charter issues, whether the GMC will crack down on offshore schools operating in the UK?

and, licensure in CA is not the only issue...how about tx? how about ks? and how about the other 47 states that don't have grads working in them yet? so far, we know only that a st. chris degree can get you licensed in louisiana. beyond that, there are no verifiable licensed grads. so, it is a pretty bold assumption to say that st chris is equal to sgu, ross, auc and saba, the only exception being CA. st chris has a loooooooong way to go for that.

visiting the school is a great FINAL step, after the school meets your specific requirements. basing a decision to accept the risks of st chris should be made on something much more than simply what the campus looks like. if you don't care about the risks, go to st chris and take a look. if you do care, avoid it for a better school.

 

[f_w]

> and, licensure in CA is not the only issue...how about tx? how
> about ks? and how about the other 47 states that don't have
> grads working in them yet? so far, we know only that a st.
> chris degree can get you licensed in louisiana.

Don't you have any faith ? Why don't you believe our valued friend here, there are 'hundreds' of graduates accross the US (but shhh, they work undercover. where they work or train is a secret. sort of like the US teaching hospitals all at top-secret, undisclosed locations).

 

[sccm_student]

this is a bunch of garbage...

some guy asked about average grades and mcats and you clowns see your big opportunity to make yet another attack on yet another website...

my undergrad gpa: 3.3 (biomedical engineering)
my mcat: 32 (11-11-10-Q... good enough to teach the mcat for kaplan)
my basic science gpa: 95 +/-
my clinical science gpa: 95 +/-
my usmle part 1: 251/99

now i've got to go apply for an ultracompetitive residency...

good luck to you guys... i bet you'll need it with all the time you spend stalking sccm students on various internet sites...

 

[neilc]

ah, the ever impressive gabe is back.

too bad with all those amazing stats, and that ultra competitive residency you are hoping for you still won't be able to work in all the states! ah, yes, but you do get to pretend that you are english, which makes it all worthwhile. i guess your post is a great example of how test scores do not show a strong correlation with common sense. and, how is your fake english accent going? hahahahahha!

 

[bts4202]

ah, the ever impressive gabe is back.

too bad with all those amazing stats, and that ultra competitive residency you are hoping for you still won't be able to work in all the states! ah, yes, but you do get to pretend that you are english, which makes it all worthwhile. i guess your post is a great example of how test scores do not show a strong correlation with common sense. and, how is your fake english accent going? hahahahahha!

typical response from neilc.. It is sad that instead of dealing with issues he has to resort to personal attacks, insults, and snide remarks.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

Well, that is still not very meaningful either. In teh UK, all buissnesses rent.. that is just the way it is. This is not the caribb where you can buy 200 acres of land for $1.50 an acre. Even so, the school St. matthew's University in the caribbean, which has been approved by the state of NY and recognized by the DOE as having equivalent accreditation to the US, also rents their buildings. There is nothing wrong with long term leases. St chris is here to stay, much to the dismay of many caribb advocates.




You are trying to knock being chartered in senegal?? I mean, come on. Is it better that a caribbean island with several thousand citizens and NO colleges or universities of any kind should have 3 or 4 medical schools on it? Is it better that these caribb schools set up shop and do not provide any/very little training for locals? Is it better than any american businessman can come to an island and throw around some money, promise that students will put money into their economy, and then be able to set up shop in any way they see fit?

At least st chris has a full medical school in senegal training the senegalese (and other africans) to be doctors to their own people. At least st chris has several clinics throughout senegal treating people for free. At least st chris has multiple simple humanitarian programs that teach the poor of senegal how to read, write, stay healthy, etc etc. What do any of these caribb schools do for their countries besides occasionally hold a clinic so that the american med students can practice on people without the risk of a lawsuit?




Its called being informed. All the information i have provided can be found here:

http://stchris.edu/about/administration.php
http://stchris.edu/about/senegal.php
http://www.aaii.info/shifa.htm
http://www.aaii.info/uehin.html

None of what you stated disproves anything i posted. Moreover, posting me links frpom the school is just as useless. They wont be publishing how they were apart of scandals.

In anycase, look at ANY new school with shady history under a microscope. You never know when they will close up shop.

 

[Duncan MacLeod]

I wouldn't have chosen the name Duncan MacLeod if it wasn't in my personality to come to the aid of the innocent, at least some of the time.....So, for a moment in time, on the 1st of September I am honored to ride (in a limited engagement) as Tonto, to BTS4202's Lone Ranger....

Reading this thread is like a flash from the past! A long, long time ago in a far away place there were other similar lands named Network54 and ValueMD...And in those lands there were indeed the exact same creatures spewing out the same deceit, half truths, and lies. To what purpose and what end? Surely, only the gods above could know.

While I don't know Miklos, FungManX, f w or most others I DO know NeilC and AZSkeptic. I just cannot believe they are still here misleading, back-biting, scatching and pinching like a couple of teenage girls in a catfight!

YEARS AGO (yes, no ****, YEARS!) they were doing exactly the same thing which I suppose is a true testament to their boredom or any lack of interest in pursuing meaningful work within the medical community.

I have personally written to and exchanged emails with Mr. Neil (even off the forum) in an effort to find common ground for lack of a better word. And years ago I even invited him to Luton to see the School for himself and speak with the students and professors. I offered him my place for the time he was here and myself as a guide to the area! As you might imagine, he never took me up on it, preferring to continue his behavior on these forums. I also exchanged emails in the past with Mr. Skeptic, unable to assist him or find any common ground as well.

The message here is straight forward. These are either terribly troubled folks, or folks with a particular agenda. They have continued to drag these forums down, to the point where they are of no assistance to any pre-medical or medical students looking for information for the journey ahead.

BTS and others try and provide information on a student to student basis, as honestly speaking, they can be far more effective and immediate purveyors of information than the school itself. Their only interest is to hopefully attract the best quality students, who will, in the end, make the school more competitive and more attractive to other students and the medical community as well.

For those who are really interested in finding out more information-contact BTS or any other St. Chris students you see on these forums (I recommend writing them a personal email, as you can see you just can't communicate effectively due to the bizarre behavior of some of these long time posters.) Or better yet, visit the school, the students and area. I'm pretty sure there are people who would offer to open their apartments to you.

As I have always said in the past, there are pro's and con's to all of these offshore schools. Check out the facts yourself.

Anyone who is posting on these forums and HAS NOT BEEN A STUDENT AT THE SCHOOL HE IS BACK STABBING (read: NEILC and AZSKEPTIC) SHOULD BE SEEN AS A BIG RED FLAG! AVOID THEIR "ADVICE" LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!

I apologize for the length of the post. I just felt a need to post some real information and backround, as I am a real student and been around, some would say, even a bit too long.

Best of luck to ALL (regardless of school) in their studies, rotations, STEPS, applications and residencies!!

Duncan Macleod
The Highlander!
"There Can Be Only One...."

 

[neilc]

always a "visit the school, talk to current students". as previously mentioned, that is not the point. the point is, there are potential issues, which i have outlined above. if and when st chris gets licensed grads in more than one state, if the reality is as great as you hope it will be, i will be happy for you. until then, it is wrong of you to expect potential students to be as optimistic, and to attempt to minimize real potential issues with your propaganda.

 

[neilc]

typical response from neilc.. It is sad that instead of dealing with issues he has to resort to personal attacks, insults, and snide remarks.

hahhaa! did you fail to read gabes post that this was a reply to? or did you just wait for him to edit it? if you think what i said was a personal attack, you must have been utterly disgusted with his attack on azskeptic...

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

I am not trolling, nor am i interested in putting down any one school. I am a Canadian who is considering all his options inscluding UK/EU schools. That being said, I do my research. If i find somethinf out i think is suspicious and i see others who do not know it, I post it. What people do with that info, or if they choose to ignore it dosent matter.

 

[whuds]

BTS

You should really read closer and between the lines. The article was written before St chris got a charter. However, the past always repeats itself. There is no denying this is not exactly a "professional" organization; if they did something like this in the past..... The place is obviously shady as a sewer.

Moreover, they RENT space. If you read any website about schools that are fly by night this is exactly what they mention. Its even in a number of pre med books on medical school selection (which i have right in front of me) mentions you never goto a school which dosent own its own facilities as that suggests lack of permanacy.

In anycase, the AAIMG may or may not be credible, i have no idea. However, the information they reference about St Chris's is easy to verify. Lastly, why do you suppose its Charter is in Senegal and not the UK? Think about that for a second.

Anywho, informed choices are always the best ones.

You said it yourself, AAIMG may not be credible, they are not. So what if the college "rents space" Other colleges do too including Luton University here in England, St. Chris just took over one of their buildings. I don't see how any of this matters that much. A fake organization that praises Eastern European Med schools, Renting space, So what? So what the charter is Senegal, the GMC knows abou this fully and recognises St. Chris grads to practice here in the UK.

It's all smoke and mirrors with all of you! Post and post accusations as facts.

 

[whuds]

always a "visit the school, talk to current students". as previously mentioned, that is not the point. the point is, there are potential issues, which i have outlined above. if and when st chris gets licensed grads in more than one state, if the reality is as great as you hope it will be, i will be happy for you. until then, it is wrong of you to expect potential students to be as optimistic, and to attempt to minimize real potential issues with your propaganda.

There are Lic grads in more than one state Uh about 5 I believe.

Yes I'm a current student, and no I will not post the people cause they have asked me not too. Why read the crap here thats why.

 

[whuds]

I am not trolling, nor am i interested in putting down any one school. I am a Canadian who is considering all his options inscluding UK/EU schools. That being said, I do my research. If i find somethinf out i think is suspicious and i see others who do not know it, I post it. What people do with that info, or if they choose to ignore it dosent matter.

You and others have posted crap from the past here wheres the updated 2005 stuff? Everything negative you can find is 2000 and 2003 possibly? We all know this crap it's inaccurate. people have reported stuff with out ever going to visit the school. The school has lic grads now and even one who will sit for the plab in England. WHy I ask do you insist on this agenda? What has St. Chris done to you? Did they reject you?
I'm sorry. New schools go through growing pains and St. Chris has had a few. I could go back and dig up crap on all the med schools in the past going to grave robbing.

 

[Mike MacKinnon]

I cannot disgaree with you. I presented the info.