ST George vs. DO schools!

[sekem]

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graduates of which school have a better chance of surgery residencies with similar board scores?

 

[xTinaBna]

graduates of which school have a better chance of surgery residencies with similar board scores?

i dont think you can do much comparing...osteopathic students also have their own residencies that only D.O's can apply for in addition to M.D. residencies..so in my opinion, D.O. all the way 🙂 with that said, i'm sure that if you do extraordinary well in any school d.o. or m.d., you will be able to get the residency you want.

 

[McGillGrad]

The factual answer is a DO school for reasons the above poster mentioned, although we all know that DO vs MD is a personal choice and does not affect your residency position as much as your hard work does.

 

[silas2642]

I would definitely go DO; they have their own surgical residencies and on top of that the financial aid is better in the states since the government is no longer supporting Caribbean schools. But that's just my opinion, and if you really need to see the letters "MD" after your name, then go Caribbean.

 

[McGillGrad]

I would definitely go DO; they have their own surgical residencies and on top of that the financial aid is better in the states since the government is no longer supporting Caribbean schools. But that's just my opinion, and if you really need to see the letters "MD" after your name, then go Caribbean.

On the other hand, at least with an MD, you do not have to explain that you REALLY are a doctor when the patient tells you to scram because he wants to see an MD.

BTW- When did the government ever support Carib schools, smarty pants?

 

[arrowsmith2]

graduates of which school have a better chance of surgery residencies with similar board scores?

An outstanding thread, if I do say so myself: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3914155&postcount=170

Enjoy!

 

[McGillGrad]

That is a post with facts that support your argument. You cannot ask for anything more solid.

An outstanding thread, if I do say so myself: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3914155&postcount=170

Enjoy!

 

[EastCoaster78]

That is a post with facts that support your argument. You cannot ask for anything more solid.

I would say that more than half of those "surgery" positions from sgu are prelim.

 

[oldpro]

WOW but there will stil be US med and premed posting that this isn't so but I know it is. One thing to add there are residency programs who out right will not even consider FMGs, but they are few. 😀

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/sho...5&postcount=170

By the way at my Carib school the residencies have even included Rads in the last 2 years.

 

[McGillGrad]

I would say that more than half of those "surgery" positions from sgu are prelim.

Would you like to back that with facts (i.e. cites) or is this your personal opinion?

 

[Taus]

Would you like to back that with facts (i.e. cites) or is this your personal opinion?

hmm....speaking of factual info....discounting all osteopathic residencies and primary care as undesirable....limit on hospital privalages and jobs.....sure those sound like solid facts to me.... that whole post is bs....feel free to look into the DO residencies operated by my school and open to DO's only...http://www.pcom.edu/Graduate_Medical_Education/Residency_Programs/Residency_Programs.html


I don't know much about the foreign schools except what I've read on here so I can't comment or compare anything.....just work hard no matter where you are, get the grades and board scores you need, make connections, etc and you'll be fine no matter where you're from

 

[McGillGrad]

hmm....speaking of factual info....discounting all osteopathic residencies and primary care as undesirable....limit on hospital privalages and jobs.....sure those sound like solid facts to me.... that whole post is bs....feel free to look into the DO residencies operated by my school and open to DO's only...http://www.pcom.edu/Graduate_Medical_Education/Residency_Programs/Residency_Programs.html


I don't know much about the foreign schools except what I've read on here so I can't comment or compare anything.....just work hard no matter where you are, get the grades and board scores you need, make connections, etc and you'll be fine no matter where you're from

So you do not have any facts to offer either, huh?

 

[RaaMD]

Depends on your willingness to be a DO and your willingness to get your MD. If you're cool with being a DO, then so be it. If you're not, then go for your MD. DO's have their own residency spots, and their own philosophies, going to the Carribean is a viable option, they seem to produce many graduates who go on to various specialties, and those who do stellar on the boards.

 

[LordSoulsby]

it definetely depends... for the most part, a DO has the advantage over the carib MD for residencies, but in certain areas, especially some of the more competitive ones like rads, rad-onc, etc., they may be on equal (albeit discriminated nonetheless) footing. the bottom line is to work hard and do as well as you can on step 1 (although DO's don't have to take it, many do b/c they know that PD's of allopathic programs prefer comparing step 1 scores) and work hard during the clinical years and make good connections and get good LORs.

one other issue is the "comfort" factor -- some people are not comfortable having their DO questioned (and generally come off really defensive if anyone questions it instead of trying to educate people), so maybe they shouldn't go to DO schools. in the same light, some people are ashamed to go to a carib MD school. but i think that MOST people are at these two types of schools because they simply don't care what route they have to take to become a physician. the bottom line is if you're comfortable with what you're doing, then it shouldn't really matter where you are getting your degree from as long as you work hard doing it.

 

[EastCoaster78]

Would you like to back that with facts (i.e. cites) or is this your personal opinion?

No, sorry I cant, because St. George's conveniently withholds that information from their lists. BTW, saba was my backup in case I didnt get into a US school, and I'm sure I would have been happy there if I hadnt gotten in there.

 

[neurodoc]

There may be an advantage to getting your DO from a US school, versus getting an MD from an offshore school...With the DO from a US school your medical education is automatically recognized for state licensure and application to US residency programs, without having to take special tests designed for FMGs. As a DO graduate, you are not an "FMG."

Whether or not US allopathic residencies "discriminate" against US DOs is another issue. Frankly, I doubt that they discriminate against FMG MDs to a greater extent.

Nick

 

[Taus]

Whether or not US allopathic residencies "discriminate" against US DOs is another issue. Frankly, I doubt that they discriminate against FMG MDs to a greater extent.

Nick

This issue will always be debatable and probably varies based on place, person...whatever...

The big point for a lot of people is that a DO school inherantly gives you the opportunity to match into the insanely competative subspecialties (ie ent/neurosurg/surg/ortho/etc) through DO-only residencies. Obviously every year there are all-stars from DO and FMG schools that match into these allopathic residencies....but its not something to count on just because its happened before.

 

[OBfan]

On the other hand, at least with an MD, you do not have to explain that you REALLY are a doctor when the patient tells you to scram because he wants to see an MD.

BTW- When did the government ever support Carib schools, smarty pants?

St. George students get up to 200,000 in Stafford loans. After that they have to get private loans. I know because I will be paying them back in a year.

 

[McGillGrad]

St. George students get up to 200,000 in Stafford loans. After that they have to get private loans. I know because I will be paying them back in a year.

Canadians have to get all private loans. I know because I will be paying at least 7%+ for about 10+ years. Americans are lucky.

 

[McGillGrad]

With the DO from a US school your medical education is automatically recognized for state licensure and application to US residency programs, without having to take special tests designed for FMGs. As a DO graduate, you are not an "FMG."

Nick

Nick,

Please inform us of the special FMG tests you speak of, because unless things have changed in the past few weeks, no such tests exist.

 

[mochief2000]

An outstanding thread, if I do say so myself: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=3914155&postcount=170

Enjoy!

This information is baised. First he never takes into question students who did not want to into allo-residency he automatically assumed that they could not get in. He also picked a school that from some reason was more interested in primary care. Also he forgets that most caribean schools have about 600 students per entering class compared to OSU 120. that's like three time the amount with not much diff in specialty. with that many students of course you are going to get allstars. Also how many of the surgery positions are prelimenary? so many questions, so few answers. the facts don't fully represent the mean. with all that said it comes back to if you feel comfortable with DO behind your name. For the average applicant, specialty residency is completely out for carribean( of course with few exceptions), but not totally out for DO's. Of course if you are at the top your med school it would be better to go carribean to get into a MD specialty residency.
Also take into note Caribeans cost more SGU 250,000 thats insane(funny, I would still love to go to SGU if could not get into DO, it has clearly become the top FM school). numerically wise it is better to go DO, psychologically wise caribean. it doesn't matter all roads lead to rome.

 

[neurodoc]

Nick,

Please inform us of the special FMG tests you speak of, because unless things have changed in the past few weeks, no such tests exist.

You are right. I was thinking of the ECMFG clinical assessment examination, but as of June 2004 that was superceded by USMLE Step 2 CS. Still, there are some disadvantages to being an IMG: you have to go through ECMFG and you mayhave to be in residency longer (up to 3 years) before you can get licensed in some States. US DO grads don't have to deal with this.

Nick

 

[LordSoulsby]

You are right. I was thinking of the ECMFG clinical assessment examination, but as of June 2004 that was superceded by USMLE Step 2 CS. Still, there are some disadvantages to being an IMG: you have to go through ECMFG and you mayhave to be in residency longer (up to 3 years) before you can get licensed in some States. US DO grads don't have to deal with this.

Nick

that doesn't even make sense... who would be paying for those extra years of residency? certainly not the US government. this is the reason why it is such a big deal to switch from a short (i.e. medicine, peds, etc.) to a longer residency (i.e. surgery, rads, etc.) -- who's going to pay for those extra years of training? licensing involves simply passing step 3 in most states and not the amount of training.

 

[McGillGrad]

that doesn't even make sense... who would be paying for those extra years of residency? certainly not the US government. this is the reason why it is such a big deal to switch from a short (i.e. medicine, peds, etc.) to a longer residency (i.e. surgery, rads, etc.) -- who's going to pay for those extra years of training? licensing involves simply passing step 3 in most states and not the amount of training.

Certain states make the paper trail a bit longer for FMGs, although American citizens from carib schools have it easier.

Certainly Canadians have a longer "residency" persiod because of the waiting for visas and other bureaucratic nonsense.

 

[EastCoaster78]

Basically, us grads can get licenced after 1 year post grad, and moonlight, whatnot. most states require foreign grads to complete 3 years or their entire residency to recieve a medical license.

 

[neurodoc]

that doesn't even make sense... who would be paying for those extra years of residency? certainly not the US government. this is the reason why it is such a big deal to switch from a short (i.e. medicine, peds, etc.) to a longer residency (i.e. surgery, rads, etc.) -- who's going to pay for those extra years of training? licensing involves simply passing step 3 in most states and not the amount of training.

Actually, it makes quite a lot of sense. The extra (required years before licensure) of residency are paid for by the training programs, and they are happy to do so because they get resident doctors to work at slave-labor rates! And yes, the fact is that most States require longer terms of residency (2 to 3 years) for IMGs than for USMGs. Thus, a USMG may be able to get licensed after PGY1, and supplement his meager income with moonlighting, whereas an IMG may not be able to get licensed until he's gotten through 3 years of residency training. That might be a big deal for some people.

Nick

 

[Orthodoc40]

That is a post with facts that support your argument. You cannot ask for anything more solid.

But there's a problem with using this kind of data. No one here can look at 2.2% in surgery from OSU-COM and say that's 2.2% of the people that WANTED to match in an allopathic residency, for example. It's just saying that out of a graduating class of - what, like, 65 people, 2.2% chose and matched into an allopathic residency. Nothing says that 95% attempted but only 2.2% matched.

For that matter, no one can say that 10.2% of people that WANTED to match into surgery from SGU got matched somewhere. We don't know how many tried, in either case. And these programs are often not at very prestigious locations either. Some might be - but most...probably not. There are also a very large number of these surgical matches from these schools that are only matching into a preliminary program anyway (DO & Carrib.) So whether they're allopathic residencies doesn't necessarily make them desireable in and of themselves. Thanks for trying, though.

 

[suscsicisi2000]

These threads are annoying. But anyway, the same people that are insecure will always say that DO's have another "tool" in their pocket as OMM or that they have "outstanding" DO residencies to choose from even though they will all take the USMLE and probably rank zero DO residencies because there is no dual match. At the same time they will preach about the "whole" patient even though they there are thousands of DO's practicing right in front of them that to the exact same thing that any MD, from any country would do. At the same time FMG's will preach about the value of the MD, etc, etc, etc. Its really pretty dumb, and only if you are planning on becoming chair of the department of a major research institution are you going to be affected (which most DO's or FMG's are not aspiring to be). If you work hard and get good grades, boards, you will be fine, and someday you are going to be right next to an FMG, DO, US doc and you will work together to treat people that are in need. Trust me, this line is getting blurred, and as more DO schools go up and more graduates come out, and more FMG's come out because US institutions dont want to increase #'s fast enough, it will only get more blurred. My advice is to not waste your time on these issues, like I did just now writing this post. Good docs are good docs and bad docs are bad.