# St. George's: Why is the graduating class half of the starting class?

##### Junior Member
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I read this on ST. George's discussion board: http://img.com.tripod.com/

For the DEC 98, May 99, and Dec 99 which represents approx. 600 to 700 students, SGU only has only about 300 graduates listed on their home page: St. Georges.
1. What happened to the other 300 or so students?
2. What percentage of people actually match within 4 years of starting the SGU program? I think is a much better question to answer than "we had 98% match rate last year" although all the data suggest US IMG's match rate to be at 50%.

[This message has been edited by John Jadvar (edited 04-13-2000).]

#### cbc16

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John,
The May graduating class is 'normal' graduating class, theoretically made up of students who matriculated in August or Janurary (4-4 1/2 years ago) This consists of roughly 400 students. The December graduating classes are not real classes, but actually people who took a little longer, or a little less time to graduate. These 'classes' represent a small number of students. I think about 10% drop out and 10% transfer to US schools. If you take these factors into account I think that brings you closer to the number of graduating seniors. You do bring up a good point, what happened to those other students that have not been accounted for?

#### Besyonek

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No way do 10% of the class transfer to US programs. It's probably closer to &lt;1%

#### dr.sof

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As cbc said, SGU has two entering classes: Jan and late Aug. Each class has approx. 200 students. Put them together, that equals roughly about 400. Out of the 400, you usually see attrition of about 10 to maybe 15 per class. So that is a total of 30. Now we're down to approx. 370. In my class, I remember we had 3 people transfer after 1st year and about another 5 or 6 after second year. So, let's say a total of 10. If an average 10-20 people a year(10 in each entering class-if that!?!) transfer, that brings us to about 350-360. Now, if you count that approx. 300 students graduate that means 50 or so are missing. Those 50 might include people that get thrown out(yes, even SGU has standards-I remember 4 people were kicked out of my class). It also may include people who decided to take a year off to have kids or do research, or work for more\$\$\$ to pay off SGU!
I think that explains the number's game,somewhat!?! As far as the match rate is concerned, the 98% figure(steph, correct me if I'm wrong), has to do with those who go into the actual NRMP "match". Remember, approx. 30% of graduating seniors pre-match aka sign outside of the match. The rest, 70%, go through with ERAS and "match". Out of that 70%, 98% are actually matched. The other 2% scramble. But who are these people? They are your graduating seniors-that 300 number. The great majority of those 300, completed SGU between 4-4.5 yrs(depending on the start date).

#### cbc16

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Dr.Sof
When I was in grenada ('94-'95), 30 to 40 people transfered back to US schools each year. Why are there so few transfers now?

#### dr.sof

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cbc:
I started Grenada right after you left (95).I went there immediately after graduating from NYU. Apparently, the 1994-95 application season was a peak for med school admissions. So as it turns out, few NYU pre-meds got in. (4 definately got in by the time we graduated, I think a handful got off of the waiting list over the summer-pretty bad for a premed class of approx 200)When the time came for transferring, many of the institutions that accepted SGU students had NO VACANCIES. UMDNJ-Newark(where I was waitlisted) didn't accept any transfer applications. UMDNJ-RWJMS accepted ONE person from my class(and her dad was on the board of the RWJ hospital in New Brunswick).
Even U Miami, who likes to take SGU grads, only accepted 2.(both Miami natives). It probably has to do with the "peak" year problem. Now that admissions are going down(a LITTLE bit), it is possible that more people are transferring. We'd have to talk to the group that's leaving Vinnie's now.
However, I could be completely off. Perhaps it has to do with a lower attrition rate at the various US schools. Any US students have stats on your school's attrition rate? Transfer rate? AMSA published an article on transferring difficulties in THE NEW PHYSICIAN, I think two months ago. I'll have to check my stack. Unfortunately, I didn't read it!

#### stephew

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For some reason this question is being posted everywhere. Let me address what I can.

1) in the island years (1&2) attrition is usually about 20 students with others who 'decel', ie take a slower program.

2) the 'missing students' are people that you dont see on match lists because of redundancy mostly. That is you see "St Joe's Hospital ' listed but what you dont see is that 5 people are going there.

3) foreign students (ie non US citizens) dont always get/want residency in the US

Dr John Madden, Assoc't Dean and I just spoke abou tthis. He tells me that *anecdotally* he knows of about 50 students in the last 5 yrs who didnt get a residency primarily because of citizenship. There were a few also who repeatedly failed the boards.
Steph

#### stephew

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Transfers are down for much the same reason its simply harder to get into med school in general; more competition; there is less US attrition, less empty spots to begin with that later admissions seek to fill with IMGs whove proven themselves. And while I was working premed school at Mount Sinai in NYC, I was told they were no longer going to accept transfers-Sinai had takena lot of SGU students for trandfer. Sure enough, the year I started, SInai stopped (I am assuming there is no cause and effect here...)