Staff Rph fired for Performance

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
A

ancienbon

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2010
Messages
769
Reaction score
246
Members don't see this ad.
My former Pic/partner who was demoted to staff when i was demoted to floater back in July last year has been terminated for performance To say i was shocked is an understatement. I have worked with him for more than 5 years. He is a great rph. I could not have asked for a better partner!
After i left and with a new pic at the store things started to go downhill. The new pic would schedule only 1 tech from 6 to 10 and he could not finish the Queue. The new pic keeps complaining to the Dl about scripts left red in the Queue.
And last week at meeting with the DL, he was terminated for performance .
 
I work for a large chain as well but haven't seen any firings due to performance that im aware of. Its interesting the companies' different approaches, my chain is pushing immunizations and MTM like no other and starting to hold people accountable for them but has mostly had the same staffing levels in effect for several years now. I rarely see CVS employees complain about these areas, usually it is just about the amount of staffing they are allowed.
 
This is all happening during the good time. I can't imagine when the recession finally arrive and flood gate of pharmacy graduates enter the job market. Fun time ahead.
 
If I were your former PIC I would sabotage the **** out them instead of going out like this. Fake LOA, ethics line this and that. Burn it all down
 
I guess you can't ask them to take pay cuts. So just fire them for performance.
 
This is their way of reducing pay legally. Expect more of these to come. For those who think their high salary is safe, think again. We all need to have a backup plan for the end of the gravy train.

These chains cut as many $10/hr tech hours as possible. When new hires make $10-15/hr less than current employees, who do you think they'll target?

No matter how good you think you are, you are expendable and replaceable by a new hire who does the same job as you.
 
Last edited:
This can and does happen. I had worked at a small grocery chain for 16 years. Started being harassed by management out of the blue (shortly after my 50th birthday) ....imaginary customer complaints, nitpicking metrics and mtm, etc. Eventually given a PIP and saw the handwriting on the wall. Found another job before they could do anything. One of the most satisfying experiences of my life was shoving my resignation letter in the manager's fat face. Should have quit years ago...am now in LTC (night shift) which is much less stressful. Contacted a lawyer about the harassment and I was told pharmacy seems to have a problem with age discrimination as they see lots of cases but made me feel like it wasn't worth fighting it. There is no such thing as a valuable employee in pharmacy anymore. Everyone is a liability in the eyes of management. Sucks, but its reality. Place has had a revolving door since I left- none of the new grads can hack the toxic retail environment. There's something to be said for thick skin I guess....
 
Imagine in another 10 years, this will happen to the Rphs making $50-55/hr so they can hire new grads for $40-45/hr.
 
mentos said:
Imagine in another 10 years, this will happen to the Rphs making $50-55/hr so they can hire new grads for $40-45/hr.
Click to expand...
I thought the going rate for retail in some markets is already $45-48/hr, and some hospitals have already been doing the mid-upper $40 range for years now (Southeast). I think Modest’s projection of $15/hr is stretching it but not too far-fetched - I can see $30/hr be the new norm in 10 years.
 
Xenophylia said:
This can and does happen. I had worked at a small grocery chain for 16 years. Started being harassed by management out of the blue (shortly after my 50th birthday) ....imaginary customer complaints, nitpicking metrics and mtm, etc. Eventually given a PIP and saw the handwriting on the wall. Found another job before they could do anything. One of the most satisfying experiences of my life was shoving my resignation letter in the manager's fat face. Should have quit years ago...am now in LTC (night shift) which is much less stressful. Contacted a lawyer about the harassment and I was told pharmacy seems to have a problem with age discrimination as they see lots of cases but made me feel like it wasn't worth fighting it. There is no such thing as a valuable employee in pharmacy anymore. Everyone is a liability in the eyes of management. Sucks, but its reality. Place has had a revolving door since I left- none of the new grads can hack the toxic retail environment. There's something to be said for thick skin I guess....
Click to expand...
That's the most hilarious part.

The majority of P4s and new grads I see don't have retail experience, so they're horrified when they do arrive
 
Moral of the story - being a PIC doesn't necessarily provide more job security.

I do wonder if your old PIC threw you under the bus before, if he could have saved his job for a little longer.

The other part is how long can this new guy hang on once he is given a freshly minted staff pharmacist. Unless, as others have pointed it, this was a strictly cost cutting move pushed on him by the management.
 
hwks09 said:
Let's be honest, we'd all be doing the same thing if we were the CEO.
Click to expand...

Not all of us are greedy CEO. After a certain mount, I'm content with the money I'm making and would NOT go out of my ways to screw someone's life. Karma will get you.

There are alot of CEO who are philanthropist like Bill Gate and Buffets that's donating most of their wealth for the betterment of society. There are corporation such as Costco and In N' Out that pay their employee a living wage even though they can force them to work for less. We used to have pension and one working spouse to support a family. We have stray so much from corporate greed.

I run a small business and pay my employee a fair wage. Occasionally, I tip them for special occasions and donate monthly to charity. I'm only making pharmacist income that's significantly less than what CEO get pay.
 
PromethazineDM said:
Not all of us are greedy CEO. After a certain mount, I'm content with the money I'm making and would NOT go out of my ways to screw someone's life. Karma will get you.

There are alot of CEO who are philanthropist like Bill Gate and Buffets that's donating most of their wealth for the betterment of society. There are corporation such as Costco and In N' Out that pay their employee a living wage even though they can force them to work for less. We used to have pension and one working spouse to support a family. We have stray so much from corporate greed.

I run a small business and pay my employee a fair wage. Occasionally, I tip them for special occasions and donate monthly to charity. I'm only making pharmacist income that's significantly less than what CEO get pay.
Click to expand...

Hahaha, no it won't.
 
VA77 said:
As wages go down more independents will open up. If I can make 75k as an owner then idk what the chains are doing.
Click to expand...

Maybe this is their way of giving us the chance to open more independents lol i mean half of my patients are transfers from cvs and wags due to long wait time and bad service. Weve gotte so busy that we had to hire more techs and clerks. Thanks greedy CEOs! Lol
 
Pharm.C. said:
Welcome to cvs 2.0. Where all issues that arise from drastically cutting hours are blamed on frontline employees. In the vast majority of stores in my district, managers understaff the shifts they dont work and then try and shift blame onto other employees. This company is rapidly going downhill. If you're going to cut hours, at least be smart and don't demoralize and piss off your employees/customers by blaming them for things outside of their control. Working hard and being good at your job never pays off at companies that have a bad culture sadly. It's all about appearance. We're rapidly approaching the point where literally leaving pharmacy for something else is a better proposition than staying with CVS. You're going to be fired or have pay cuts in the future. Better to invest in a better future career now and let the new grads deal with this nonsense.
Click to expand...

This is the single best post I have seen on this forum. True of all major retailers.
 
CetiAlphaFive said:
That's the most hilarious part.

The majority of P4s and new grads I see don't have retail experience, so they're horrified when they do arrive
Click to expand...

I liken the situation to the movie Enemy at the Gates where the new grads and their staff are the Russians while the customers and the work are the Germans.
 
VA77 said:
As wages go down more independents will open up. If I can make 75k as an owner then idk what the chains are doing.
Click to expand...

I actually have a theory on this. I believe that the chains are not very profitable due to inventory management.

The chain pics are not properly trained upon hire and inventory management is not something that they really emphasize with new hire pics. Especially new graduate pics.

Many new graduates will see a Rx for a specialty medication that a doctor has no idea what the cost is and order it for no other reason than the fact that there is an Rx in front of them calling for the medication. Then they get the medication, realize it’s 10k dollars, and the patient says no way. Then they never follow up and return the medication because they really don’t know any better.

It’s my opinion that the cost of goods is killing a lot of chains. Independents deeply understand the cost of goods and how it affects their bottom line. This is why independents earn more.

Just my theory as a retail chain pic
 
johnpharm01 said:
I liken the situation to the movie Enemy at the Gates where the new grads and their staff are the Russians while the customers and the work are the Germans.
Click to expand...
And when you try to retreat you get shot by the barrier troops aka loan collector that has a $200k bounty on your head.
 
Pharmacy is a Scam said:
And when you try to retreat you get shot by the barrier troops aka loan collector that has a $200k bounty on your head.
Click to expand...

This is America... they aren’t so scary.. just default it and move to Northern California or something. Become a YouTube activist. Before you know it your loan default has turned you into a social hero and the loan collectors will be afraid of you
 
Pharmacy is a Scam said:
I thought the going rate for retail in some markets is already $45-48/hr, and some hospitals have already been doing the mid-upper $40 range for years now (Southeast). I think Modest’s projection of $15/hr is stretching it but not too far-fetched - I can see $30/hr be the new norm in 10 years.
Click to expand...
to be fair my projection was 25-35 hour. The lowest I will work for as a pharmacist is 20 then i'm working at walmart stocking in the bay area while listening to pod casts.

Old time employees will be forced out or asked to reapply for their jobs at a lower rate. You had 15+ years to pay off your debts. Now make room for the new grads. If you didn't pay off your debts in 15 years you were financially negligent and lived beyond your means. Not everyone gets to live in a house / apartment. Supply and Demand isn't a joke guys. 15,000 new grads a YEAR. It's simple math. I love when 50+ year old pharmacist complain about lack of pay raises. In my head i'm thinking, ya dude you are not going to have a job this time next year. How is it possible to be this out of touch with reality? Chains will hire lots of new grads part time then partially fire the excess along with old timers they want out. This avoids age discrimination lawsuits. The new grads will just be used as ammo to get the old blood out. You realize how much the RED DEVIL has to pay in soaring healthcare costs for it's older employees not to mention their inflated salaries.

If you worked more than 10 years as a pharmacist consider yourself lucky. I would at least buy a vehicle you don't mind sleeping in / living in as a cheap insurance policy. I just feel bad for these people. I talked to a 55 year old pharmacist the other day and he was telling me how he's only 50% of the way through is student loans. DUDE what have you been doing for 30 years? like how is this possible? how does greed like this exist. Amazing.

You made your air mattress. Now sleep on it.
 
M0df said:
Moral of the story - being a PIC doesn't necessarily provide more job security.

I do wonder if your old PIC threw you under the bus before, if he could have saved his job for a little longer.

The other part is how long can this new guy hang on once he is given a freshly minted staff pharmacist. Unless, as others have pointed it, this was a strictly cost cutting move pushed on him by the management.
Click to expand...

I doubt he would do that. We had a great relationship. Though he might had known that i was going to be demoted. A day before i found out, a patient told me" i heard you are transferring . Tell me what store you are going to be". I was speechless. I did not find out until the next 2 days when my name was removed from the schedule.
 
JustFillIt said:
I actually have a theory on this. I believe that the chains are not very profitable due to inventory management.

The chain pics are not properly trained upon hire and inventory management is not something that they really emphasize with new hire pics. Especially new graduate pics.

Many new graduates will see a Rx for a specialty medication that a doctor has no idea what the cost is and order it for no other reason than the fact that there is an Rx in front of them calling for the medication. Then they get the medication, realize it’s 10k dollars, and the patient says no way. Then they never follow up and return the medication because they really don’t know any better.

It’s my opinion that the cost of goods is killing a lot of chains. Independents deeply understand the cost of goods and how it affects their bottom line. This is why independents earn more.

Just my theory as a retail chain pic
Click to expand...
It's quite the opposite, they absolutely know what their COGS is, but you sure are not going to get told. That's precious information.

The fall of Andersen

Do you realize that the accounting numbers that chain PICs get are complete BS and are just there to account for keeping books? Of course, corporate accounting (supported by the Big Four firms) goes completely into "creative accounting" territory. If any of your stores broke a profit, your state shell company is doing it wrong (unless you're North Dakota or Texas due to tax law). CVS used to have a notorious reputation for their Hollywood accounting causing every single one of their stores to officially lose money and their dba affiliates in the state to lose money, to all transfer into corporate accounts that lose money to avoid both state and federal taxation. I really don't know if anyone besides possibly 10 people know the actual numbers due to the obfuscation for CVS and with Walgreens, no one does as it's Italian accounting with the familie (spelled with an i and e) and KKR doing the usual debt loading onto a company.

I specifically remember dealing with Arthur Andersen and their sleazy successors in KPMG when I was in Deerfield. The only time that I ever felt in my life that I was clearly out of my depth with my mathematics skills was when a KPMG partner sat me down over two weeks to explain with the figures how the CRW accounting was set up at the time through the shell companies and other tax-advantaged subsidies, because we had to deal with the final closing of Sanborn's. The line between creative and fraud was a question that I asked, and the answer was simply that it was only fraud if we are convicted for it, and we're not as incompetent as AA. So reassuring at the time, and I just looked his profile up at KPMG just now, is a Director and I'm sure will make Partner. Guess he's very creative...

This is why I have my day job. I'm good, but I'm nowhere near that kind of good.
 
lord999 said:
It's quite the opposite, they absolutely know what their COGS is, but you sure are not going to get told. That's precious information.


I specifically remember dealing with Arthur Andersen and their sleazy successors in KPMG when I was in Deerfield. The only time that I ever felt in my life that I was clearly out of my depth with my mathematics skills was when a KPMG partner sat me down over two weeks to explain with the figures how the CRW accounting was set up at the time through the shell companies and other tax-advantaged subsidies, because we had to deal with the final closing of Sanborn's. The line between creative and fraud was a question that I asked, and the answer was simply that it was only fraud if we are convicted for it, and we're not as incompetent as AA. So reassuring at the time, and I just looked his profile up at KPMG just now, is a Director and I'm sure will make Partner. Guess he's very creative...

This is why I have my day job. I'm good, but I'm nowhere near that kind of good.
Click to expand...

A businessman was interviewing applicants for the position of divisional manager. He devised a simple test to select the most suitable person for the job. He asked each applicant the question, "What is two and two?" The first interviewee was a journalist. His answer was "Twenty-two." The second was a social worker. She said, "I don't know the answer but I'm glad we had time to discuss this important question." The third applicant was an engineer. He pulled out a slide rule and showed the answer to be between 3.999 and 4.001. The last applicant was an accountant. The business man asked him, "How much is two and two?" The accountant got up from his chair, went over to the door and closed it, then came back and sat down. He leaned across the desk and said in a low voice, "How much do you want it to be?" He got the job.
 
Momus said:
Cutting old expensive employee I see.
Click to expand...
this is probably what happened. He probably was making 70$+ and got like 8 weeks of vaca or something like that..a remnant from the early 2000s
 
ChalupaBatman86 said:
A businessman was interviewing applicants for the position of divisional manager. He devised a simple test to select the most suitable person for the job. He asked each applicant the question, "What is two and two?" The first interviewee was a journalist. His answer was "Twenty-two." The second was a social worker. She said, "I don't know the answer but I'm glad we had time to discuss this important question." The third applicant was an engineer. He pulled out a slide rule and showed the answer to be between 3.999 and 4.001. The last applicant was an accountant. The business man asked him, "How much is two and two?" The accountant got up from his chair, went over to the door and closed it, then came back and sat down. He leaned across the desk and said in a low voice, "How much do you want it to be?" He got the job.
Click to expand...
That’s freakin’ gold!
 
Modest_anteater said:
I talked to a 55 year old pharmacist the other day and he was telling me how he's only 50% of the way through is student loans. DUDE what have you been doing for 30 years? like how is this possible? how does greed like this exist. Amazing.
Click to expand...
you do realize student loans were pretty cheap back then right? 50% of what? $10,000 ? OMG! 30 years ago CVS and Walgreens stocks were also dirt cheap. his stock grants should add up to about $500,000 by now. and his 401k? if he did NOT diversify his portfolio and put 100% in company stock, CVS or Walgreens, it should be around $500,000 as well. and his mega mansion? he probably paid off his $500,000 mortgage by now as well. when old pharmacists tell you they still have student loans. it doesn't mean anything unless you look at his entire net worth.
 
ancienbon said:
My former Pic/partner who was demoted to staff when i was demoted to floater back in July last year has been terminated for performance To say i was shocked is an understatement.
After i left and with a new pic at the store things started to go downhill. The new pic would schedule only 1 tech from 6 to 10 and he could not finish the Queue. The new pic keeps complaining to the Dl about scripts left red in the Queue.
And last week at meeting with the DL, he was terminated for performance .
Click to expand...

what's stopping them from filing lawsuit against the company for wrongful termination? i personally knew a pharmacist that filed a lawsuit because he was fired for under performance. when i worked with him 9 years ago he had waiters sitting and waiting for 1+ hour! he was the slowest pharmacist i ever came across. but he filed a lawsuit and won. do pharmacists today not file lawsuits anymore?
 
sosoo said:
what's stopping them from filing lawsuit against the company for wrongful termination? i personally knew a pharmacist that filed a lawsuit because he was fired for under performance. when i worked with him 9 years ago he had waiters sitting and waiting for 1+ hour! he was the slowest pharmacist i ever came across. but he filed a lawsuit and won. do pharmacists today not file lawsuits anymore?
Click to expand...
Too many student loans. Probably can’t front the legal fees. And the corporate lawyers have gotten sharper/hungrier.
 
I consulted a lawyer re: a discrimination case. His take on it was the corporations have pretty much unlimited $$$ and can drag a case out forever, purposefully bankrupting the accuser in the process. Only the lawyers win in those cases. Thought that was unusually honest coming from an actual lawyer. In the end the chance of any gain (and the satisfaction of winning) wasn't worth the risk....
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
Maybe this is their way of giving us the chance to open more independents lol i mean half of my patients are transfers from cvs and wags due to long wait time and bad service. Weve gotte so busy that we had to hire more techs and clerks. Thanks greedy CEOs! Lol
Click to expand...
I'm telling you can't have your cake and ice cream too.
 
Pharm.C. said:
Welcome to cvs 2.0. Where all issues that arise from drastically cutting hours are blamed on frontline employees. In the vast majority of stores in my district, managers understaff the shifts they dont work and then try and shift blame onto other employees. This company is rapidly going downhill. If you're going to cut hours, at least be smart and don't demoralize and piss off your employees/customers by blaming them for things outside of their control. Working hard and being good at your job never pays off at companies that have a bad culture sadly. It's all about appearance. We're rapidly approaching the point where literally leaving pharmacy for something else is a better proposition than staying with CVS. You're going to be fired or have pay cuts in the future. Better to invest in a better future career now and let the new grads deal with this nonsense.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. The jig is up, time to get your exit strategy together and let the new generation figure this out.
 
lord999 said:
For "performance" reasons, right.
Click to expand...

These companies are slimy. Don;t think for a minute they are not sitting and salivating about all the money they can save by hiring the NEW generation of pharmacists. They are in business to make money and are struggling to make a profit right now. They are actively reducing staff and YES, performacing out older pharmacists making the older money, benefits, and PTO......etc. It's not personal though, they are just greedy and dont care about people at all. So don't feel like it's you, UNLESS you are a bad retail pharmacist. Then you probably deserve to be moved out of the field. Otherwise, this is just capitalism at its's finest/worst.
 
sozetone said:
These companies are slimy. Don;t think for a minute they are not sitting and salivating about all the money they can save by hiring the NEW generation of pharmacists. They are in business to make money and are struggling to make a profit right now. They are actively reducing staff and YES, performacing out older pharmacists making the older money, benefits, and PTO......etc. It's not personal though, they are just greedy and dont care about people at all. So don't feel like it's you, UNLESS you are a bad retail pharmacist. Then you probably deserve to be moved out of the field. Otherwise, this is just capitalism at its's finest/worst.
Click to expand...

Somewhat true. Almost every company that cut corners for profit end up going belly up and cvs is on fast tract to do just that. Same reason why many US car makers are disappearing and cant compete with asian and european competitions.

This would be the perfect time to revolutionize pharmacy and capitalize on others stupidity and greed.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
Somewhat true. Almost every company that cut corners for profit end up going belly up and cvs is on fast tract to do just that. Same reason why many US car makers are disappearing and cant compete with asian and european competitions.

This would be the perfect time to revolutionize pharmacy and capitalize on others stupidity and greed.
Click to expand...


LOL...US car companies pay significantly higher wages to their workers due to long-standing union negotiations. Look at the average wage per regular employee compared to Toyota/Honda. At least this was the case for years and years.
 
sozetone said:
These companies are slimy. Don;t think for a minute they are not sitting and salivating about all the money they can save by hiring the NEW generation of pharmacists. They are in business to make money and are struggling to make a profit right now. They are actively reducing staff and YES, performacing out older pharmacists making the older money, benefits, and PTO......etc. It's not personal though, they are just greedy and dont care about people at all. So don't feel like it's you, UNLESS you are a bad retail pharmacist. Then you probably deserve to be moved out of the field. Otherwise, this is just capitalism at its's finest/worst.
Click to expand...

Ford will be laying off 5,000 workers in Germany than it was also reported that the company's CEO, Jim Hackett, saw his pay rise to $17.75 million in 2018

I agree. There are alot of corporate greed going around. I would be a little concern if I'm a supervisor/manager in charge of firing people. There are risk of retaliation.
 
rxdawg21 said:
LOL...US car companies pay significantly higher wages to their workers due to long-standing union negotiations. Look at the average wage per regular employee compared to Toyota/Honda. At least this was the case for years and years.
Click to expand...

Well I was actually pointing out the quality of the cars themselves haha my parents had about 3 different american cars... never again will i buy another american car lol.

The problem with cvs isnt the wages actually right? They pay the highest salary among the big corporations. But the quality that cvs provides is just trash haha just like chevy and ford.
 
VictorOfHungerGames said:
Well I was actually pointing out the quality of the cars themselves haha my parents had about 3 different american cars... never again will i buy another american car lol.

The problem with cvs isnt the wages actually right? They pay the highest salary among the big corporations. But the quality that cvs provides is just trash haha just like chevy and ford.
Click to expand...
I agree bad experience with american cars. Will never buy a gm.
 
CetiAlphaFive said:
Hahaha, no it won't.
Click to expand...

Unless you are laying on your death bed and reflect your life choices and how it affect you and your family, it's hard to believe you.

I live with simple motto: treat others like you want to be treated. We make great income already, no point to stab someone in the back to make a little more.
 
PromethazineDM said:
Unless you are laying on your death bed and reflect your life choices and how it affect you and your family, it's hard to believe you.

I live with simple motto: treat others like you want to be treated. We make great income already, no point to stab someone in the back to make a little more.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily criticizing your position, but having worked in hospice, most of the dying do not have philosophical concerns such as "did I live a good life" or "am I leaving the world a better place." They are more concerned about when they can use their PCA next, how long they are going to suffer (in the sadder cases), and living in the moment because their last is within reach.

Your motto isn't so simple though. You do need to strike a balance between being a good person and being a rational one. Treat others like you want to be treated works with people who are reasonable. You don't offer it to just anyone, for anyone else, you just politely build that wall and stay out of their lives as they should out of yours.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

F
WA RPH TO NEVADA
Replies
0
Views
1K
fujilluv
F
N
Thought my rph buddies need to know this
Replies
3
Views
2K
pharm B
pharm B
W
Not renewing Texas RPh license, letting it expire.
Replies
0
Views
1K
winnguyen
W
N
DMAPS--federal performance review
Replies
0
Views
548
nampa
N
Codegreyk
Amazon staff Pharmacist
Replies
0
Views
4K
Codegreyk
Codegreyk
Top