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Standing up to your boss knowing you will get fired

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by brodaiga, Nov 21, 2005.

  1. brodaiga

    brodaiga Senior Member
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    Did this the other day at one of my jobs. In my year off before going to med school I am working as a bartender for a catering company. I make sure to only sign up for events where I am serving drinks and not working as a server clearing people's dirty dishes. Well, last weekend, of the managers at the event I was working at comes up to me in the middle of the event and says, we want you to serve, we want to switch you out with a female bartender. Now, I am always willing to help out as I help with the setup which involves carrying boxes, ice, and throwing away trash at the end. However, call it elitist or whatnot, but I do not feel right taking dirty dishes from the table of millionaires at these events (I saw donald trump there the other day) knowing my hard work in college and the disrespect I feel from being "the help." So, I looked at my manager and said, "I only sign up at events where I am promised beforehand to be a bartender, I do not serve." He starts arguing, and while mantaining eye contact, I tell him "I'm sorry, but I will not do it."

    On a side note these were some the rudest managers I have seen in my life. Right after my episode, I was consolling a female sever who was crying because of the treatment from guests and the managers. These companies prey on people who cannot afford to lose their jobs and for that time being can treat their staff any way they want. If I ever don't feel like studying in med school, I will draw inspiration from these experiences of the 'real world'
     
  2. red dot

    red dot burning, burning
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    i've actually done that. but i had been b!tching about how horrible she was so i didn't care.
     
  3. riceman04

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    Why do you not feel right taking dishes from rich people? Hell, who cares!!!! As long as you where you are going in life you should not feel as if busing tables is going to make you look like you are worthless. You act as if that stuff is below you!!!!

    Please dont tell me that b/c you are going to be a doctor you feel like bussing tables is below you! I wish you had the opportunity to explain your position to Donald Trump. I bet he would have ripped you to Shreds if you even suggested that that was your reason for not wanting to act as a bus boy.

    About your manager trying to switch you out after bartending: That is another story!!! Since you signed up for that position your manager should not have moved you unless he had a valid reason for doing so.
     
  4. beefballs

    beefballs MIDWEST
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    Yep nothing like waiting tables to really piss you off at the consumer. 9 out of 10 people are cool but it is that one a$$hole you remember, and although most managers I have had are cool some are extremely small-minded people who think your first priority in life should be to sling burgwers and onion rings whenever they need you.
     
  5. little_late_MD

    little_late_MD Ready To Jump
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  6. little_late_MD

    little_late_MD Ready To Jump
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    Guess what bartender...you are in foodservice . That means it is your job to cater to the guests, however rich and snotty they may be. It's your manager's perogative to put you wherever he needs you to be. I worked in the service industry all through college, and those are the breaks. You didn't stand up to your boss, you threw a temper tantrum.
     
  7. ShyRem

    ShyRem I need more coffee.
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    I worked for 4 years at a resort in the Pocono Mountains busing and serving tables. The tips were good, the work was hard. I partied harder. It definitely gives you a certain amount of respect for how hard it is to wait tables at a busy restaurant. But it also gives me the right to say what is horrible service. If I see my waiter/waitress busting his/her butt while my drink is empty, I'll cut some slack.

    And yes, I stood up to my managers several times. Once I was absolutely buried in customers and I got the manager to go pick up 10 entrees for me (and she was in 3" heels).
     
  8. DeadorAlive

    DeadorAlive Senior Member
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    You don't want to touch others' dirty plates, but you are intent on entering a profession where you will quite literally allow yourself to be in contact with their bodily fluids? People are going to be rude to you in medicine, as well, and they likely won't all be Donald Trump. You will have to learn to take it in stride....
     
  9. CTSballer11

    CTSballer11 Senior Member
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    Look. You definately come across as elitist, but if you truly were an elitist you would not be a bartender. You are going to be dealing with some dirty crap as a doctor and you will be treated a lot worse by your attendings when you become a resident.
     
  10. Pretty POHA

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    Nothing wrong with standing up to a boss-- but was it worth it??
    Did you ultimately get what you wanted?
    And you do sound like an elitist. Get over yourself. Or find another part time job, which it sounds like you might have to do anyway. Anyhoo. The moral is, you should stand up for yourself whenever you feel you're being disserviced or taken advantage of. Regardless of how lame your reasoning is.
     
  11. Rendar5

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    remember that you quit a job over bussing dirty plates while u're disimpacting some 80yo's bowels with your fingers. :smuggrin:
     
  12. brodaiga

    brodaiga Senior Member
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    There is the difference. As a doctor in training, I do not mind doing any dirty work, I have done plenty of it as an EMT and volunteering in the ER. The difference is that I am doing what I want to do, training to be a physician. I would rather deal with a patient's excrements than serving as a waiter. Maybe it has something to do with pride or respect. I feel respect as a bartender, but not as a server. I had one experience serving with this company where I had to dresss up in a chinese outfit and was yelled at by grumpy french chefs. I decided not to do it again. Being a bartender often requires schooling, certification, and knowing ~150 drinks off the fly, I spent $500 to get my certificate. You are using your brain in the process. I like jobs where you are using your head instead of plain manual labor. That's why in college i had jobs in sales, where i used my skills to sell a product, I preferred that to folding clothes in dillards, there is no challenge there.
     
  13. brodaiga

    brodaiga Senior Member
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    I got what I wanted, my self respect. I do not need this job. If you must know the disagreements were not for the company I work for but with the one who hired out my company for this event, the company i work for is a subcontractor that provides staff to big companies. The manager of my company sympathisized and I am not exagerrating when he said "I wish I could be in the position to do what you did." As a side note the big catering company apparently had a problem with a number of our staff, and they said they would never hire my company again. Maybe it is a good thing. On a side note, the bartender I was paired up with was a shy, but a very nice woman who was not very experienced. She got ripped apart by the manager for forgetting to bring a bowtie to the event. He insulted her and was getting ready to send her home until I stood up for her, and we found her a bowtie. After the event, they put the event I was told they put the left over food in large vats mixed together for the staff to eat with their hands. How gross, this reminds me of an animal feeding lot. Anyway, i hope some of you are enjoying this gossip...
     
  14. Shredder

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    [​IMG]

    "youre fired," says you to the boss. that takes some guts. respect to you for standing up for yourself. your services and presence are valuable, dont be bullied by good for nothing management. years from now will you remember the money/job you forsook, or the ideals you compromised?

    btw you dont sound elitist at all. totally understandable position. a future doc needs to be working professional jobs. dont ever sacrifice your pride and dignity for the sake of expediency. thats a slippery slope to shamelessness. seems like many ppl are against you but im with you on this. i wish i could meet more ppl like you in person. this is an entrepreneurs mentality i tell you, dont take crap from anyone and march to your own beat

    --your #1 fan
     
  15. chef_NU

    chef_NU G-Unit
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    edit... double post
     
  16. chef_NU

    chef_NU G-Unit
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    muahahahahaha

    DOWN WITH THE MAN!
     
  17. Shredder

    Shredder User
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    refuse to live by other ppls rules or play their games. thats called having principles and living for oneself. brodaiga you are a marked man!

    howard roark, anyone? seilienne?
     
  18. theunderdog

    theunderdog Medical Student (Slave)
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    I think your experience shows a lot about your character.... that you won't give up your dignity and pride under particular circumstances. It would be a great thing to talk about at the interview. I know I would love to hear it if you interviewed here at UMich.
     
  19. riceman04

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    So this is not related to this thread but I remember you bringing up the Morhouse College of Medicine primary care figures. I thought that was interesting and I thought about it yesterday when I was on Delta (going from Atlanta to Los Angeles) when I read Morehouse's advertising page in a magazine. They openly say that over 65% of their students train to become primary care physicians.

    I just wanted to get your opinion on what they stated in relation to the figures that you presented.

    cya!
     
  20. brodaiga

    brodaiga Senior Member
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    Actually, a fan of Roark and John Galt here. Don't agree with everything, but a good part of it.
     
  21. emgirl

    emgirl Senior Member
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    on another note- most people have to start at the bottom and work their way up in the world- I'm assuming you're young and you're obviously not a doctor yet so I think it's odd you feel so highly about yourself that you would refuse to serve others. If you accept a job you need to be willing to do what it takes to get it done- if your managers ask you to do another job related task other than bartending just suck it up and do it, as long as it's not illegal. If you are still in undergrad or even if you've graduated I don't think that waiting tables is "beneath you"- lots of people do it with all kinds of skill sets and levels of intelligence. It's a poor attitude to have going into med school- as a resident, would you tell an attending "no, I don't want to help the lady throwing up because someday I'm going to be a surgeon so I will only help on surgery related tasks"? It's good to have confidence in yourself but I don't think that serving tables instead of bartending for one night would be "compromising your values"- last I checked both jobs include serving others so I don't get what the big deal is. Your manager should fire you for being a jerk.
     
  22. brodaiga

    brodaiga Senior Member
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    Age is not a factor. for your example of the lady throwing up, read my posts above
     
  23. CTSballer11

    CTSballer11 Senior Member
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    Hey man I respect your decision and the logic behind it 100% percent.(since you explained yourself). I was just wondering if you had a problem listening to authority. Obviously fixing up a sick patient is not the same as cleaning up crap off a table, even though they both can be messy. I should have clarified my original post. I guess you do not have a problem with mesy things since you were an EMT. You are going to medical school in a year, screw them.
     
  24. CTSballer11

    CTSballer11 Senior Member
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  25. CTSballer11

    CTSballer11 Senior Member
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    sorry for posting this three times. My computer froze and I apparently replied a few extra times.
     
  26. Stroganoff

    Stroganoff Never give up.
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    I think this is a weak excuse. This isn't about pride or respect. It's about responsibility and flexibility. Even though the job may suck, you still agreed to be the company's employee, and that entails a certain amount of flexibility. Managers exist for a reason, and perhaps they wanted to swap you out with a female bartender because of the guestlist for that night or something (maybe it would increase profits considerably with a female just for that night).

    But whatever, even if that's not the reason, it's good to be humble and responsible and just do your job. Just because you don't mind doing a little scutwork and patient work just to learn the odds and ends of medicine is no excuse to not being a responsible employee at another job.

    The above quote is where I got most of my reasoning. Would you feel the same way taking dirty dishes from the table of regular non-millionaires? How about royalty? How about at a soup kitchen?

    I'm not saying you did not work hard in college, but if you feel "disrepected" from "being 'the help' " then you have issues with altruism and humility.

    Were you promised this time to be the bartender? Give us more context.
     
  27. i can relate, restaurant managers are pretty friggin anal when it comes to their jobs... i can't stand the constant ordering around... i think you did the right thing. but either you haven't found the right place to work yet, or foodservice is not for you... i found that foodservice is not for me.
     
  28. MoosePilot

    MoosePilot Y Bombardier
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    I think you did fine. You could afford to lose the job. You did have a responsibility to them, but they negated that when they broke their contract (spoken) to use you for bartending and not serving.
     
  29. 21JumpStreet

    21JumpStreet Senior Member
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    Great Post!! I totally agree.
     
  30. 21JumpStreet

    21JumpStreet Senior Member
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    There are many people with much more education than you whom wait tables. You know my preceptor in med school had a patient who was FINISHING a doctorate in mathematics. This patient waited tables because he needed the money. We didn't see this attitude from him.

    I know a researcher(former classmate) with a master's degree in biochemistry who worked as a janitor for several years until he found a research position. Again, I didn't see this attitude from him.

    With this type of attitude, you won't last during your third year.
     
  31. Psycho Doctor

    Psycho Doctor *** Angel
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    wow!! I am actually blown away by your posts. You are going into a "helping field"...no? Or to you it's going into an "elitist field" where you will garner respect. yes, that's probably more like it.

    Listen, buddy everyone has to start at the bottom and everyone has to do things they don't want to do...that's just life. or are you above that because you have an education? Sorry to be blunt but that's a crappy attitude. You chose to take a year off before med school; i presume it was also to make money. Therefore work for your money and do whatever is expected and do it with a smile...it will get you much further in life and in the long run you'll feel better about yourself. Most job descriptions include a clause as a responsibility "any related job deemed necessary by the management".

    You know what? I'm in med school now. I graduated from a good college and have well respected professional parents. They would probably give me anything i wanted. But you know what? I don't want to just take from them...i want to earn self-respect and the respect of others by working hard myself and doing whatever my bosses want or expect of me. In addition, one of the most rewarding (and respectful) things I've ever done is VOLUNTEER SERVING IN A SOUP KITCHEN, and yes that means cleaning up messy plates from people with dirty hands because they have no place to wash. I go to my hometown and do it every year around the Thanksgiving and Christmas holidays and any other time that I can. Am I better than those I serve? No way...I am just more fortunate than they are. And to show my thankfulness for that, I want to help those who are less fortunate. Furthermore it gives me undefinable pride to be able to SERVE these people...nothing makes me happier than to see the joy on the faces of these poor destitute people who truly appreciate a hot meal and the helping hands of total strangers. If you don't like unappreciative rich folks, try volunteering your time in a soup kitchen, a homeless shelter, a hospice or children's hospital and learn what it is to sacrifice and serve. It is a feeling that can not be compared with any other.
     
  32. Apparition

    Apparition 1K Member
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    Psycho, there is a difference in serving people who need help and just serving. I believe it's not the physical dirt the OP is so reluctant to touch. Perhaps he has the experience serving the rich that you don't have that would make him not want to do it. You can't compare it to a soup kitchen, where you are seen as a guy with a good heart who is helping those less fortunate. Most likely, they think of waiters as low-lives (compared to them), who don't bring food fast enough, just get in the way and expect a tip. Although I've never served in a restaurant, I'm sure this is common.

    Everyone has their own preference. The deal was that he would be a bartender. I think he is right in standing up for himself. If everyone had guts to do it, employers wouldn't be able to take advantage of people the way they do now and the employees wouldn't be as disposable.

    Not a particularly good anology but pharmacists who distribute meds aren't expected to clean up or to work the cash register.
     
  33. Mr. Freeze

    Mr. Freeze Not right. (in the head)
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    you gotta fight back Tyler Durden style...
     
  34. 06applicant

    06applicant Senior Member
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    you think you’re above the people who are "the help" ?

    Recognize that manual labor is harder and less rewarding than studying, but some people don’t have the opportunity for college. why not get a job that requires that education your "hard work" in college gave you.
     
  35. MoosePilot

    MoosePilot Y Bombardier
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    I think it's funny that it's politically incorrect not to do only the job you want to do when you made it clear as a condition of your employment.

    When you're a doctor and they're short on janitors, are you ok with them asking you to sweep and mop? If not, do you think you're better than the janitor? This is ridiculous!
     
  36. thegymbum

    thegymbum Senior Member
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    I recently had a similar encounter.. although an interestingly different result..

    I've been working a few hours a week at a doctor's office for a while, and the doctor basically treats the nurses and medical assistants like we're the scum of the earth. However, since the pay is pretty good, and most of us are pre med students and would love to have the associated brownie points for our med school apps, we stick around. The other day, though, I was having a crappy day and he yelled at me for not having someone's file ready, despite that the patient's appointment wasn't even written down, and I snapped and bitched him out, told him how sick we are of his treating us like crap, etc., expecting to be told to leave and never come back, heh, but not really caring all that much. He looked surprised for a second, apologized, and since then, has been almost too nice. I'm still in shock :p
     
  37. little_late_MD

    little_late_MD Ready To Jump
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    Your analogy is incorrect, as doctors and janitors fall into completely distinct occupational categories. Their training, job objectives, etc are not even in the same galaxy. However, a server and a bartender are for all intents and purposes the same position, although the bartender has an additional bit of information about mixing drinks.
    Put this ina hospital setting. What if they asked him to draw blood, do a finger stick, or check blood pressure? Those are generally considered nurses duties, and would therefore not be included in what he was expecting/expected to do at work. Would the OP throw a tantrum in that situation?
     
  38. riceman04

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    I would say: yes he would throw a tantrum b/c he is all about maintaining a certain status and jobs, such as those, are below him.
     
  39. Apparition

    Apparition 1K Member
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    He may perform these things if they are necessary for a good cause such as helping a patient. Helping the rich stuff their belly isn't a good cause.
    Will you guys, who are blasting the OP, do anyting you're asked in a work setting? It's no wonder med students are expected to bring coffee to the residents.
     
  40. Stroganoff

    Stroganoff Never give up.
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    The fact that you're female and him male usually helps. It probably surprised him coming from you. If a male assistant were to do that, it would probably escalate and the doc would develop a grudge.

    Just stupid immature human nature.
     
  41. little_late_MD

    little_late_MD Ready To Jump
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    If it's part of the job that I agreed to take, then yes I would do it. Are you telling me that bartenders aren't asked to wait tables, clean up, or deal with all different kinds of clientele? Seriously, does anyone have a decent work ethic anymore?
     
  42. Davo82

    Davo82 New Member

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    It is understandable for you not wanting to serve because you just don’t like it, but feeling inferior or feeling disrespect because of your hard work in college is the most ridiculous argument you could give to your self not to do it. Serving or cleaning bathrooms, is as honorable of a job as being a doctor. Just because you have the money to attend med-school or the brains (and that allows you to MAY BE become a doctor), doesn’t mean that you could possibly be above anybody who could attend med school but just decides that fixing cars and getting duty is a better fit. The point here is that no matter your level of education, there is no job that would ever make you above or below anybody. I think you should think about your values and understand that may be that person that could one day serve you is putting the pride aside so a family could be fed, which in my opinion deserves more respect than any doctor that just got to that position by means of interest.
     
  43. Darth Asclepius

    Darth Asclepius Dark Lord of the Sith
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    :rolleyes: A future doc needs to be working whatever jobs they have to to get through college so they can be a doctor. If the OP feels he'll lose respect for himself if he serves, fine, he shouldn't do it. But to suggest that future doctors are above such jobs is ridiculous. You sound like a person who has never actually had to pay a tuition bill out of your own pocket. You work whatever job you have to to pay that tuition if you want to get where you want to go.
     
  44. riceman04

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    Here's the point: He knew what he was getting into by signing up to work for that company. Why not complete your obligation as a worker even if you feel what you have been asked to does not meet your standards. That guy was not in a leadership position and therefore could be told what to do (regardless of whether is was right or not). And since he (like most snobby ass pre-meds do) probably made it known to his co-workers that he would be attending medical school I would not be surprised if the higher authorities within the company found it necessary to ensure that he, at the present time, is below them.

    He set himself up and then did not want to complete what his managers required of him. Next time he should show that his work ethic rises above their perceptions of him and then maybe he will end up in a position where people will not attempt to make a fool of him.

    You are right - helping the rich stuff their belly is not for a good cause...but neither is serving them drinks.
     
  45. Jon Davis

    Jon Davis I killed the bank.
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    Great post Darth Asclepius. It is funny to read these posts supporting the OP's stance but maintain that they are not elitist. The OP's stance is totally elitist. I suggest you look it up. Here, I've done the leg work for you just in case you want to dismiss my point.
    http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=elitist
    The OP and his elitist supporters falls under definition 2a. Just because you belong or will belong to a "professional class" (i.e. physician) does not mean you are "above" anything. The OP signed up for a job, primarily bartending, but serving is not totally out of his league. Suck it up! If you dont like it, the door is always open for you to leave. I laugh, because it seems you think becoming a physician is such a rosy thing. Do you even know what the current plights are of physicians these days? I am sure if you learned about it, you will think twice about becoming a physician. After you research it, it might be below your "standards". Wake up, you're living in a dream world.

    I just laugh and wonder how many of my future colleagues will also carry some of these views. :laugh:
     
  46. Stroganoff

    Stroganoff Never give up.
    Rocket Scientist 15+ Year Member

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    Instead of thinking selfishly about one's job, one should think selflessly and about other people and about the company. Though my first several jobs were 2-3x minimum wage, my last job was a minimum wage retail job (my first one, so I was excited for the experience) at another school in a smaller town (nothing available), so I was thankful to take it.

    I was surprised how lazy people were and how they were doing the bare minimum needed just to get by. That kind of mentality sickened me, and I gave it my all. It's about attitude and conscience. If I were to slack off, I would feel guilty about that. When I'm an employee, I think about what's in the company's best interest, not what is in my best interest.

    I'm surprised how the majority of the business world is like that. It's a huge rude awakening. People are lazy and selfish as f*** and nobody gives a damn. It's all about ME ME ME and NOW NOW NOW. There's this invisible hierarchy or some crap, where people think they are superior or inferior to you.

    This kind of thinking has no place in the human world, but only in the animal kingdom. We are equal and should be respected like such. In order to have a smoothly running company, we have to swallow pride, f*ck ego, and press on. That will pave the way to success.

    People hate their jobs because they hate themselves and/or other people. It makes no logical sense to me to have these trivial conflicts. Life's too short to spend dicking around and not giving each day your all, even if it's on a mindless task that is not part of your job description. To me, that is a sign of weakness in character.
     
  47. benelswick

    benelswick Guest

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    Man...y'all need to chill with over political interpretations of this dudes situation.

    Anybody who's been around the block a few times instead of reading about it in some cultural theory class, knows that to hold your own in the world, you've got to stand up for yourself. The dude wasn't feeling the snobby clientel, he prefers tending bar to serving, he just brought in all the ice, prepped the garnishes, set up the whole thing, just to be told on a whim that the boss preffers a pair of boobs at the bar so he can sell more scotch to the old rich bastards.....so he did what his gut told him....he said forget it bro.

    I don't see why y'all are giving him the liberal sermons. Live a little longer...there will be a time in your medical careers where you will have to stand up for yourself and it doesn't mean that you mind giving somebody's grandmother a sponge bath.--Ben.
     
  48. Apparition

    Apparition 1K Member
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    Tell that to the 30,000 people being laid off at General Motors as we post.
     
  49. CTSballer11

    CTSballer11 Senior Member
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    For real man. There is a difference in working hard and being a complete tool. Why the hell would anyone break their back for a millionare while you are barely making enough to support a family. Sickening.
     
  50. Doctor Bagel

    Doctor Bagel so cheap and juicy
    Moderator Emeritus 15+ Year Member

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    amen. you shouldn't be any more loyal to your company than it is to you. a for profit corporation doesn't need my charity.
     

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