Standing up to your boss knowing you will get fired

[LizzyM]

For real man. There is a difference in working hard and being a complete tool. Why the hell would anyone break their back for a millionare while you are barely making enough to support a family. Sickening.

How will you feel as an intern when you are making pennies per hour and the patients for whom you are caring are young (or old) millionaries? Will it be degrading to be asked to serve them. Will it be degrading? Will you expect the nurse to do it? (If the resident in an outpatient setting has some downtime he might be asked to do a simple task that is usually done by an LPN -- is that degrading?)

I think that the OP wants people to know that he is smart and going (or hoping) to have an important job in an elite field a few years from now. He hopes to be the peer of those people who are eating and drinking. Being the busboy or waiter is not in keeping with how he wants them to perceive him. Being a bartender is different because bartenders are knowledgable and can be outgoing and sociable, something not expected of a waiter.

I hope the OP tells this anecdote at all his interviews as it demonstrates his courage to stand up for what he believes.

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[Apparition]

How will you feel as an intern when you are making pennies per hour and the patients for whom you are caring are young (or old) millionaries? Will it be degrading to be asked to serve them. Will it be degrading? Will you expect the nurse to do it? (If the resident in an outpatient setting has some downtime he might be asked to do a simple task that is usually done by an LPN -- is that degrading?)

I think that the OP wants people to know that he is smart and going (or hoping) to have an important job in an elite field a few years from now. He hopes to be the peer of those people who are eating and drinking. Being the busboy or waiter is not in keeping with how he wants them to perceive him. Being a bartender is different because bartenders are knowledgable and can be outgoing and sociable, something not expected of a waiter.

I hope the OP tells this anecdote at all his interviews as it demonstrates his courage to stand up for what he believes.

Lizzy, medicine is just different. There's an important humanistic element to it. Even if a patient is rich, he/she is still sick and needs help. I can't imagine not helping someone who genuinly needs my help whether it's a rich guy in pain or a drug addict who tries to hit me while I am helping. They are hurting or are in despair, and I just wouldn't be able to do nothing.

When you're talking about business, it's always simply about making some millionaire even richer. Something that is not worth much sacrifice for me. By the way, I work for a for-profit organization and always do my best and try to help out with stuff I'm not responsible for like taking phone calls for other people, etc, and I wish this company success. But I do so because I choose to not because I'm told.

Basically, I would (and do) sacrifice a lot for the things I believe in but I don't do anything just to please someone.

 

[CTSballer11]

How will you feel as an intern when you are making pennies per hour and the patients for whom you are caring are young (or old) millionaries? Will it be degrading to be asked to serve them. Will it be degrading? Will you expect the nurse to do it? (If the resident in an outpatient setting has some downtime he might be asked to do a simple task that is usually done by an LPN -- is that degrading?)

I think that the OP wants people to know that he is smart and going (or hoping) to have an important job in an elite field a few years from now. He hopes to be the peer of those people who are eating and drinking. Being the busboy or waiter is not in keeping with how he wants them to perceive him. Being a bartender is different because bartenders are knowledgable and can be outgoing and sociable, something not expected of a waiter.

I hope the OP tells this anecdote at all his interviews as it demonstrates his courage to stand up for what he believes.

Come on now. You cannot possibly be serious here. Providing care to sick people and working in an assembly line for a billionaire are not one in the same. It is a privalege to be able to heal a sick patient.

 

[little_late_MD]

Tell that to the 30,000 people being laid off at General Motors as we post.

One of the main reasons GM is constantly in the red is because of the huge pensions it has to pay to tens of thousands of its retired workers. I don't think that the managers there are dancing naked in a room full of caviar and Dom because they got to fire tens of thousands of workers.

 

[Apparition]

One of the main reasons GM is constantly in the red is because of the huge pensions it has to pay to tens of thousands of its retired workers. I don't think that the managers there are dancing naked in a room full of caviar and Dom because they got to fire tens of thousands of workers.

I am certain that they sold their mutliple $50M houses and $200K cars to help their ex-employees feed their families.

 

[Stroganoff]

Tell that to the 30,000 people being laid off at General Motors as we post.

Well that sucks...bad.

amen. you shouldn't be any more loyal to your company than it is to you. a for profit corporation doesn't need my charity.

Maybe I give people way, way too much credit than they deserve. I guess there's a lot of bitter, greedy, cutthroat, manipulative people out there in the business world?

I guess my "idealistic" post would only work for a really good company, not one full of scum. Sorry for any naiive confusion.

 

[Jon Davis]

Instead of thinking selfishly about one's job, one should think selflessly and about other people and about the company...

I was surprised how lazy people were and how they were doing the bare minimum needed just to get by. That kind of mentality sickened me, and I gave it my all. It's about attitude and conscience. If I were to slack off, I would feel guilty about that. When I'm an employee, I think about what's in the company's best interest, not what is in my best interest.

That's communism.

On a side note, the GM thing is just the repurcussions of what the American consumer has done to their own country and the huge concessions the company made to labor unions. GM doesn't make cars anymore, they are a HMO now. Sad.

 

[Stroganoff]

That's communism.

If you co-founded your own start up, you'd think the same way. That's what I had in mind. Put in the long ass hours so the company thrives. Hell yeah.

As for the crap retail job, it's just having a good work ethic and setting the bar high for the other lazy ass co-workers who take 20 minute smoke breaks and 30 minute water breaks.

I ain't no commie!

 

[benelswick]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

.....Precisely. What we are all talking about is very different worlds. To me medcine is beautiful because at least at the individual level it does not or should not distinguish between race, creed, social status, sexual orientation, and so forth. I would say that in its intention and purpose it is very unlike most of our daily interactions.

However, like it or not, much of our existence is fought for, and sometimes this involves class warfare, if someone does not feel the need to give you a measure of decency and respect as a fellow creature of god then let it be known that will have to take you on face to face and that you will make equality with them known. Because not everybody can afford to speak up for themselves due to the forces of oppression, and if you are so blessed, then it is your duty to do so for the principle of justice to prevail. Humility does not mean you have let yourself be relegated to a participant in some injustice done to you or others, be that the social flatulence of the casual and unregarding upper-class elite, or a more serious offense.

So when in the mosque...kneel. When at the bedside....serve. And when on the battlefield, where ever that may be....draw your sword.

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy, medicine is just different. There's an important humanistic element to it. Even if a patient is rich, he/she is still sick and needs help. I can't imagine not helping someone who genuinly needs my help whether it's a rich guy in pain or a drug addict who tries to hit me while I am helping. They are hurting or are in despair, and I just wouldn't be able to do nothing.

Not all of your patients will be sick. And some of them will ask you do things that aren't right and they'll expect you to do them because they are rich (perhaps benefactors or potential benefactors of your institution). For example, "I've decided not to go to Aspen. Please write a letter to the airline so that I can get a refund (due to serious illness) on this non-refundable ticket."

Some of your rich patients will be addicted to prescription painkillers or engaging in other unhealthful behavior and they will expect you to look the other way because of who they are.

They won't be hurting or in despair. Just telling you what to do and asking you, "do you know who I am?" And then there are the ones who won't let yo do anything because you are not yet an attending. "Do you know who I am? I don't want a resident/intern/medical student examining my mother! Get her doctor on the phone right now!"

Are you ready to put up with that?

 

[benelswick]

Are you ready to put up with that?[/QUOTE]

That's a good point, Lizzy.

Situations like the ones you mentioned will surely come up. Although i think you could create a career in medicine that has less of these things. Additionally I think you can still remain professionally couteous while not letting people abuse you or perhaps worse convincing you to violate your own professional ethics by writing a false letter to an airline or something of the sort.

 

[Shredder]

That's communism.

On a side note, the GM thing is just the repurcussions of what the American consumer has done to their own country and the huge concessions the company made to labor unions. GM doesn't make cars anymore, they are a HMO now. Sad.

Man...y'all need to chill with over political interpretations of this dudes situation.

Anybody who's been around the block a few times instead of reading about it in some cultural theory class, knows that to hold your own in the world, you've got to stand up for yourself. The dude wasn't feeling the snobby clientel, he prefers tending bar to serving, he just brought in all the ice, prepped the garnishes, set up the whole thing, just to be told on a whim that the boss preffers a pair of boobs at the bar so he can sell more scotch to the old rich bastards.....so he did what his gut told him....he said forget it bro.

I don't see why y'all are giving him the liberal sermons. Live a little longer...there will be a time in your medical careers where you will have to stand up for yourself and it doesn't mean that you mind giving somebody's grandmother a sponge bath.--Ben.

good thread. revealing too

 

[45408]

With this type of attitude, you won't last during your third year.

Give me a break. You're pretending to be very humble and such, but you're turning out to be the most elitist poster in this thread.

 

[45408]

A future doc needs to be working whatever jobs they have to to get through college so they can be a doctor. If the OP feels he'll lose respect for himself if he serves, fine, he shouldn't do it. But to suggest that future doctors are above such jobs is ridiculous. You sound like a person who has never actually had to pay a tuition bill out of your own pocket. You work whatever job you have to to pay that tuition if you want to get where you want to go.

You've gotta be kidding me. I doubt that most of the future docs are working "whatever jobs they have to" here. Most people have a boundary of what they think is "below them." I can be pretty sure that almost everyone in this thread wouldn't be disagreeing with the OP if his boss had told him to plunge the toilet with his bare hands. It seems likely to me that the OP actually DOES know all about working hard - but maybe his "cutoff" is a little higher than other people's.

 

[Darth Asclepius]

You've gotta be kidding me. I doubt that most of the future docs are working "whatever jobs they have to" here. Most people have a boundary of what they think is "below them." I can be pretty sure that almost everyone in this thread wouldn't be disagreeing with the OP if his boss had told him to plunge the toilet with his bare hands. It seems likely to me that the OP actually DOES know all about working hard - but maybe his "cutoff" is a little higher than other people's.

It sounds like you didn't understand. I said if the OP feels serving will cause him to lose respect for himself, he shouldn't do it. I never said he doesn't know anything about working hard.

The comment you quoted is in response to Shredder's statement that future doctors should be working professional jobs (not serving). If you have to pay your way through school, you have to work jobs like that if it's how you can pay your tuition or rent. You might be right that not many future docs here are working whatever jobs they have to, but I have known a lot of students (myself included) that had to wait tables and wash dishes (which yes, means mopping floors and cleaning toilets) to pay for tuition, rent, and food. I certainly don't have less respect for them for working jobs that were "below them". I have more respect for them because they worked crappy jobs because it was the only way they could follow their dreams in the end. They had respect for themselves too, although maybe that's because they didn't see it as working jobs that were below them. This does not mean you have to do something you feel is degrading. I have quit a serving job because of the way they treated me. All I'm saying is that it's ridiculous to think that just because you're going to be a doctor someday, you should be working professional jobs now. You do what you have to do to pay the bills. Not everyone is lucky enough to find a professional job that will pay them enough to do this.

 

[McGillGrad]

The OP is absolutely right to refuse to do something he specifically mentioned when he was hired.

It is not as if they were short of staff. he was being replaced by another bartender.

It is a sad day when Americans look down on other Americans for exercising their Godzilla-given freedom to choose when, where and how they want to earn a living.

 

[Davo82]

You've gotta be kidding me. I doubt that most of the future docs are working "whatever jobs they have to" here. Most people have a boundary of what they think is "below them."

That’s the kind of elitist mentality that completely kills your argument. How could you really believe there is any jobs bellow you? One thing is not wanting to do something because you just don’t like it, disgusts you, or simply just don’t want to do it, but thinking that is bellow you?

I can be pretty sure that almost everyone in this thread wouldn't be disagreeing with the OP if his boss had told him to plunge the toilet with his bare hands.

That’s just ridiculous, let’s try to be realistic when giving examples.

 

[LabMonster]

Look. You definately come across as elitist, but if you truly were an elitist you would not be a bartender. You are going to be dealing with some dirty crap as a doctor and you will be treated a lot worse by your attendings when you become a resident.

Hehe. Part of a clerkship and internship is learning humility. Why? It makes you realize you are no better than the people you treat.

 

[Pretty POHA]

I think I get it. And I think I've been thinking about this thread for the last few days. I think it's not about humility or whatever, it's about goals.
My goal: to be a doctor, specifically forensic psychiatrist
My current job: accounting/ HR/ accounts payable/inventory/ etc. for a jock strap manufacturing company.
This current job (where I'm miserable at) has nothing to do with my future. Working here with the intentions of learning accounting for my future practice is just as reasonable as working for a construction company so that when I am a doctor, I can build my own building.
This has nothing to do with being better than an accounting-type person, it has to do with goals and what makes me happy in life. I think I'm going to quit. I emailed my boss to ask if she'd had any luck finding a replacement for me.

 

[Darth Asclepius]

This current job (where I'm miserable at) has nothing to do with my future. Working here with the intentions of learning accounting for my future practice is just as reasonable as working for a construction company so that when I am a doctor, I can build my own building.

That's an excellent point. You would probably hire someone to do that kind of stuff for you (someone who will know a lot more about it than you and who will have it as their primary job and give it the proper attention). If the reason you've convinced yourself to work a job you hate is because you'd learn accounting skills for your practice, you'll probably be happier if you quit. Just remember that it's not easy to find a job related to medicine that will pay well without any training. I'm not sure that's you goal. It sounds like you just want to get out of a job you don't like and find another way to pay the bills. Good luck.

 

[21JumpStreet]

Give me a break. You're pretending to be very humble and such, but you're turning out to be the most elitist poster in this thread.

How very hypocritical of you given the statment you just made:

"You've gotta be kidding me. I doubt that most of the future docs are working "whatever jobs they have to" here. Most people have a boundary of what they think is "below them."

 

[NapeSpikes]

If the OP's boss goes against his word, or is disrespectful, or unreasonably demanding, then yes, by all means, fight the power.

However, the first post to this thread wreaks of elitism. It appears that one of the major concerns for the OP is he will be seen as merely "the help." It isn't hard to imagine, then, that the OP sees himself as better than his co-workers. He doesn't want to be thought of as one of them: to him, that would be "disrespectful." After all, they are just manual laborers presumably without a coveted bartending certification or college coursework, right?

So go ahead and praise the OP for standing up for his rights to refuse work he did not sign up for, or for challenging an overly demanding boss. But please don't encourage his elitist attitude.

 

[Jon Davis]

If the OP's boss goes against his word, or is disrespectful, or unreasonably demanding, then yes, by all means, fight the power.

However, the first post to this thread wreaks of elitism. It appears that one of the major concerns for the OP is he will be seen as merely "the help." It isn't hard to imagine, then, that the OP sees himself as better than his co-workers. He doesn't want to be thought of as one of them: to him, that would be "disrespectful." After all, they are just manual laborers presumably without a coveted bartending certification or college coursework, right?

So go ahead and praise the OP for standing up for his rights to refuse work he did not sign up for, or for challenging an overly demanding boss. But please don't encourage his elitist attitude.

Pretty much what I said.

 

[Pewl]

Man...y'all need to chill with over political interpretations of this dudes situation.

Anybody who's been around the block a few times instead of reading about it in some cultural theory class, knows that to hold your own in the world, you've got to stand up for yourself. The dude wasn't feeling the snobby clientel, he prefers tending bar to serving, he just brought in all the ice, prepped the garnishes, set up the whole thing, just to be told on a whim that the boss preffers a pair of boobs at the bar so he can sell more scotch to the old rich bastards.....so he did what his gut told him....he said forget it bro.

I don't see why y'all are giving him the liberal sermons. Live a little longer...there will be a time in your medical careers where you will have to stand up for yourself and it doesn't mean that you mind giving somebody's grandmother a sponge bath.--Ben.

I think the above summarizes the response that I would give.

All of you need to quit pulling a philosophy 101 on this guy. I know what it's like to have an @$$hole of a boss, and if anything he's standing up against sexism as well! I recall the case of the man who sued Hooters because of their policy of not hiring men as waiters. He won the lawsuit too!

There will be times when your own human nature will cause you to say no to something, or to stand up for yourself as an instinct. The OP can obviously afford to do this, so I say why the hell not! It has nothing to do with what he is willing to do in medicine! I'm sure he'll do whatever the job calls for when it comes to medicine.

 

[45408]

That’s the kind of elitist mentality that completely kills your argument. How could you really believe there is any jobs bellow you? One thing is not wanting to do something because you just don’t like it, disgusts you, or simply just don’t want to do it, but thinking that is bellow you?

That’s just ridiculous, let’s try to be realistic when giving examples.

It was a little extreme, but you don't think that there are people with jobs shoveling manure or climbing into septic tanks? That's pretty dang close. I'll be honest - I'd never do those jobs. I think that the OP simply felt insulted by performing a certain task because he was (in his eyes) mistreated by the customers. I wouldn't have made that stand, probably, but I don't think that it's a big deal that he did.

 

[45408]

How very hypocritical of you given the statment you just made:

"You've gotta be kidding me. I doubt that most of the future docs are working "whatever jobs they have to" here. Most people have a boundary of what they think is "below them."

No, not really.