Stanford MD-PhD vs Harvard MD-PhD (with debt)

[owouwu]

Hi everyone! I am finding myself in a situation I genuinely never thought I'd find myself in. I feel so humbled, fortunate, shocked, etc... This is a crazy decision and one that has no end to debates, but I have two months -- not enough time -- to decide where I will be for the next eight years. Everyone I've talked to in each program says to attend the other one (LMAO) and I would love anyone's input here!

Stanford MD-PhD
pros:

• I would graduate with no debt
• nice weather
• my family is there
• my partner is a tech person and would thrive in Silicon Valley
• people are super fun
• super interdisciplinary - everyone works with other departments (like, very easy to forge relationships with physics or anthropology or etc even as a med student or biology PhD student)
• did I mention it's free

cons:

• there are very few people who do the work in my field/topic of interest (~5 people total)
• directly related to the last point, there are not as many resources for science/education as Harvard has
• I very adamantly hate Silicon Valley and its entrepreneurial/venture capitalist culture; further, the Bay Area community had been toxic for me as I was growing up and I feel strong reservations about moving back from Boston, where I am now

Harvard MD-PhD
pros:

• I love the community and the number of people who do the work I do (~20-40 people) who each are well-established in the field and have strong original work that I would love to join
  • like, there is an endless sea of people who I could work with
• I am well-adjusted in this community; I have so many friends, collaborators, and mentors already established here. Educationally, I probably have the strongest support system here than anywhere else in this country.
• I have enormous, lofty dreams of serving on the NIMH/WHO/etc and there are quite literally people I can talk to next door that served there and led international collaborations (Steve Hyman, for example, is one floor above me); this is the work I'd love to do in the future and knowing others have been in those footsteps in my direct community helps me feel like this is an attainable goal
• resources are significantly better

cons:

• debt ($100,000/yr for the first 2 years; rest would be potentially funded) - my parents don't have deep pockets lol
• no interdisciplinary baked into the fabric of education; i.e., it's much harder to be friends with sociology people or MBAs because of how far away the campus is
• people are less fun/more stuffy lol (I am sorry to all my friends here - yall are great, but I like chaos)
• weather is horrid and because of this I don't go outside in the winter or the summer lol (I gained like 10 lbs living here)

There is obviously no right answer here and would love to hear your opinions!

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[deleted1065184]

I understand you hate the hyperentrepreneurial/venture capitalist culture of the Bay Area, but leaving an MD/PhD $200k+ in debt is just WILD to me.

The only financial incentive to go through with an MD/PhD is the ability to leave debt free. Physician-scientists tend to make less than other physicians, and if you're planning to work for NIH/WHO/etc that'll most likely be true for you too.

5 people in your field of interest at Stanford is fine, you're only gonna rotate with 2-3 of them and work in the lab of 1 of them, lol. No institution has as many resources as Harvard and it's affiliates, but that doesn't mean Stanford doesn't have more than enough resources for you to succeed. Unless you genuinely feel you'd be miserable living in the Bay Area (which is important bc MD/PhD programs are long), Stanford is the move imo.

Also, as an MSTP done with the PhD and ~1.5y left in training, I just wanna let you know that it's okay to do your dissertation work in an area that's not the exact specific niche you want. How supportive the PI is and how well you mesh with them is a million times more important. You always have the postdoc to do research within a super niche field. The PhD is about learning to become an independent scientist.

We can talk more in DMs if you'd like, but I honestly feel like it'd be a mistake to leave an MD/PhD program over $200k in debt when you could go to another highly prestigious program and leave without debt.

 

[TheOtherAlien]

Family there, zero cost, good job prospects for your partner (in a place where you're expecting to live for ~8 years)...I feel that this is a pretty easy choice to make. The great weather and fun/more relaxed culture are a bonus. I have to say, in medical school I have not found that the very real toxicity of Silicon Valley has much opportunity to invade my life. I very much see its influence in a lot of the friends I have in tech, but I think being in medicine is at least somewhat insulating, especially in comparison to growing up here. If you want to talk MD program and culture here (can't speak to the PhD aspects), please don't hesitate to DM me.

 

[123OkayGoogle]

Stanford easily

 

[JesusInvert]

I would pick Stanford. Debt free, support system already in place, and happy partner are all wins in my book. Sure you might miss out on a few connections Harvard has, but you can pave your own path at Stanford and I’m sure there are plenty of other opportunities to get where you want to go. Congrats!!

 

[hotcrossbuns]

I vote Stanford. Only thing better than one network of mentors is two. Plus, the interdisciplinary focus at Stanford will probably further your long-term NIMH/WHO dreams better than Harvard will. I'm pretty sure Stanny has the highest proportion of graduates who don't enter the match but go on to do other things. In my mind that's a clear indication that they set their graduates up for success in clinically-adjacent things like public health, global health, entrepreneurship, etc.

 

[ihoop24]

Stanford. Paying for an MD-PhD is mad

 

[YoungMoneyMint]

Stanford. 200K of debt for an MD-PhD is a non-starter, perhaps HMS wants trust-fund researchers as opposed to the strongest students.

Harvards record with financial aid seems to indicate they want trust-fund everybody lol

 

[hydroflaskhomie]

Stanford, you already have your foot in the door at Harvard. Just do work to make sure you maintain those connections while you're on the other coast (collaboration perhaps?)

 

[pierty]

Were you accepted to HST but not the MSTP? It's ridiculous that HMS does this every year.

It seems like the better research fit is in Boston, and I would usually suggest following that line. It is also easy for online, faceless voices to project their "best decision" on to you, and my personal feelings for these 2 institutions are starkly night and (mostly) day, which I intend not to project on to you.

Even so, logically, I still believe that the right decision would be to attend Stanford MSTP. And I am happy to say that.